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I second Kizzie's opinion -- following your own instincts seems to work best, as to when and/or where or what resonates deeply with you. With so much on this forum, that can be daunting but also lead to considering many facets of how others have dealt -- or not -- with some pretty devastating traumatic episodes. Definitive answers can come hard, but just glancing through some of the material on here can help, IMO. All part of the dance, I guess -- 

I feel a rapport with the roiling sort of pain and grief you've described here, natureluvr. After a lifetime of dealing with my own scars, I think maybe this journey is more like coming out in a totally new space, not just another side. In other words, somehow we find a new life totally beyond the one we were denied.

That old stuff might still fog up the rear-view mirror, but each moment those remnants fade further from affecting our new adventure.

This new landscape can be scary, full of fear and uncertainty. But even coming this far, you've already passed the starting point of the new life you deserve to find.

That starting point is here. You're out of the storm, where at last you can feel free to be you, safe in your own skin and more than ready to start building that new life.

Welcome to OOTS, natureluvr 

What an outstanding example of your creative genius guiding your voyage into the new seas you've dreamed about finding.

Congratulations! 

         

                         

The first time I read this, I tried to respond to this, as everything you brought up hits squarely and deep in my own wounded heart.

I still have no adequate words; senseless things are like that, and the more we try to find any answers, the worse we feel.

Here's what I DO find, though. I see, and admire, your efforts, Bach, in spilling out the raw emotional hurt you've endured. What your post shows is the inner courage and your strength in stepping forward with self-care.

There never can be words strong enough to fully soothe the deep hurt of it all. Still, you felt this need deeply enough to somehow find a response to a lack of love. In doing this, your self-love is like a beacon for the many here struggling to find that for themselves.

   
 

Thanks for posting this reference, Kizzie.

While I didn't fully realize it at the time, and for sure don't understand how I was able to pull off this attitude, I seem to now see what was going on, to an extent.

The article refers to 'positive dissociating' from these encounters with narcissistic sorts seeking to control someone else. This didn't feel right, and instead of falling into  a major fight-back stance (a big part of what they probably wanted), I early-on seemed to have found a niche where the hurt never burst out that way. Anger? Yes. Humiliation? Some. Yet somehow I never went over the edge in response to even the most horrific and unbelievable abuses.

In some other posts, I've noted how I even came to regard some or all of the abusers as behaving like buffoons (most of them outright narcissists; though I didn't have that word for them at that time).

As was pointed out in the article, it's not always best to have the blow-back ready, even if it hurts in the meantime. There were even a couple of times when I sensed my abusers hanging back when my actions didn't match what they thought it 'should' happen on my part. They were ready to drop the other shoe, as it were, but of a sudden they seemed perplexed by my actions. So while dissociation can certainly be harmful at times, I seem to have found it as a partial way around the lies (and worse) that I was enduring.

While the dissociation did hurt at the time, and I still can feel the anger and rage now, my T has also pointed out that I can NOW safely respond, be it by hitting pillows or other actions that 'gets it out' but in ways only I notice; and definitely benefit from secretly using this 'of course' approach pointed to in the article.

Thanks again, Kizzie, and it's good to see you resurface here with your valuable contributions. 

Maybe this reaction will seem trite, pollyannish, unrealistic, or what have you. ... but whatever good vibes you set aside for a future time, when things will magically pop in place, can be accessed right now.

This might not seem possible in the present crises, and in the external sense, may not be. But when you go inside your heart-sense, all of the positives are there, even if hidden for long or short periods of time.

Viewing the new as new, for real, may seem awkward at best and foolish besides, yet it can help us reach heights we never imagined, where the view is suddenly pristine, where the past is dissolved of its troubles, and we can feel confident in our ability to move on.

A while ago, you never thought you'd find this site/forum, and perhaps considered it as a dim ray of hope, and not like a functioning lighthouse. Having read your story, it seems that's changed. And if it has, what's ahead needn't repeat the past.

I know, it sounds as if maybe I don't get it (per one ancient liturgy, we are in the Feast of Fools). As recently as a couple days back, I was also deep in a rough spot. It never evens out, but the nice thing is when you realize you're further ahead than you once thought possible. A glance in the rear-view mirror shows all the rough spots, but they're receding further each moment.

Okay -- lotta words, but here's a more basic way I can share my feelings -- 

Greetings, CrackedIce. Small steps indeed, and you've already taken a huge one -- reaching out in therapy and now here to dare diving in a little more as you grapple with lots of issues. The only tip I'd like to point out is -- be kind, and patient with yourself. Parts of this trail can be rough and foreboding, so being easy on yourself is a good set-off point.

Whatever the treatments involve there, I hope you will feel the vibes here and that the best wishes of all of us will lift your spirits. All the best, now and going forward.

  and   

I hope it's okay to add this little quote I ran into the other day -- it's from Greek poet Dinos Christianapouls. He wrote:

"They tried to bury us, but they didn't know we were seeds."

Hope your seeding of the new you goes well and grows strong and beautiful.

As someone who went through various forms of therapy from an assortment of therapists, I also found a huge disparity in who I felt connected with my issues, and personally as well. It's very hard, but important to really note when the fit just isn't there.

We are all unique, as are the approaches and backgrounds of therapists. Only after a span of some years and lots of false hopes and failed promises, I found someone who met my needs in a manner I felt compatible  with; if not always easy. Mind you, comfort is difficult, considering the void we're in when we decide to try therapy. Having been in and out, though, I can't offer any specific advice -- instead just encourage you, as you seem to have a feel for what might or might not help.

"Help" is the key word -- it's not the therapist's role to fix you --   but to be help you with your own journey. They can't do therapy for you, but what they offer in assisting you can help turn the tide. This is how my own experience has grown -- after all those therapists, I kept at it and finally found someone with an approach that seems to have fit me well. May you find a good way forward, and give yourself credit for having tried so far the best you can.

Wishing you the best.

It's awful to read of all the roadblocks which have lately emerged for you. Especially considering your already remarkable turnaround from not too far back.

The word en-courage-ment comes to mind as playing a needed role in all of our stories. I think it's significant that courage stands out, in word if not in how you're feeling right now. What I mean comes strictly from observing the many turns you've taken, and how at each one you demonstrated your enormous capacity for courage.

Thank you for how, even in your current desperate pain and anxiety, you've been able to again muster the resolve to see this through. May the surgery go well, and may the coming days brighten.

Gently, I'll offer this --  ; -- hope it can help you keep finding ways which will carry you on to those brighter days. 

Hi, DMan. I'll try and keep this short. I'm not keen on super-analysis these days, but it has its place, especially at the stage of wondering 'what the .... is going on?

I have the identical symptom of hearing those now disembodied voices, from multiple abuse sources in FOO, schools/church people, and later when, in my desperate susceptibility to fall for someone I felt I could trust, I fell into the clutches of a crafty narcissist.

So your tale resonates deeply with my experience. In the process of weaving how awful this feels into the ongoing therapy I've doing for around 6 years, I've tried less to go by what the books and analyses say (or I think they're saying) and build on how my T and I work/play with whatever it is that's happening.
At their worst, these voices made it seem like I was surrounded by dozens of radio, all with angry voices blaring at me, while all I could do was to clutch a pillow around my ears as much as possible, but they still penetrated.

My T is wonderful at nudging me towards my own comebacks to symptoms, at least at first. She did this with these as well, until she just simply wondered if I only reacted, or could stand to be a tad pro-active, and send the screams back -- literally (I live in an isolated rural area, which helps -- there's no humans around to hear and be concerned).

That almost sounded too simple,  , but slowly I began doing my own comebacks, in any combo of words that came -- and was surprised at how that helped. Of course I was eager that this would rectify the terror of hearing those voices, such wasn't the case. But it was a start, and began feeling more at ease after venting in that way.

The voices can still happen by, but I react now, and that's made a world of difference with my attitude about dissipating their immediate effect. One small detail, in my case, was explained by my T in regards to how the stimulant part of the brain that can generate this stuff is also apparently associated with feeling when the body is exhibitin phyical pain. Yup -- that ties in with my acute levels of arthritic type of bodily pains -- and when they flare it seems my emotional memories -- with the voices -- also flare.

One difference with what you noted is that the voices I hear are related to actual incidents; unfortunately all of them. However, at least I'm getting the chance to scream and cry back at those incidents, and more so the memory of the many abusers who once projected those voices.

Ah, once again I've made this longer than I intended. Perhaps it's not helpful, but I wanted you to at least know that there are others who experience what you're talking about. Apparently these voices got so internalized they're just hard to evict, but at least in my case I've found some breathing room. I know it probably sounds too simple almost; while gobbling up all the theories and such about this, but also staying off of drugs to deal with it, I've at least turned a corner on my path.

But that's my own tale -- I can only hope you will find relief in whatever form that works out for you. Like anything with this sort of thing, it may take awhile, but the best news is that you're actively trying to arrive at a solution.

Oops --  --  addendum to previous post:

But of course, in the process of copying the poem TRY HUMAN, by Chelan Harkin, I inadverdently missed getting the last part of the poem in. Talk about a Kintsugi moment! -- anyway, here is the end of the poem, repaired in my imperfect way:

"Forget polished.
Choose rusted, textured, nuanced, real.
Please cease this intimidating flawlessness
and become generous in sharing your sacred wound.
Forget Divine— try human."

I recently ran across this little gem by poet Chelan Harkin in her book called "Susceptible to Light". The poems are mind-bending without straining to get her drift. Anyway, I liked this poem for its ending, which reminded me of an approach to healing called Kint-Sugi.  More on that in a minute, but first her poem:


"TRY HUMAN
Forget perfection.
Go for messy, learning tender, whole.
Forget brand new.
Embrace cracked, broken open, worn, rich with story."

Though there's a popular legend about how Kintsugi originated, basically it refers to discovering the usefulness of not rejecting the smashed fate of, say, a broken vase or jar and its seemingly ruined collection of shards.

While its original object can never be entirely reconstructed, the smashed remnants can be rediscovered, worked with, and re-crafted into a piece that can often turn out better than the original broken pieces.

Well, we're all broken in various ways. And we're all either in the process or trying to find ways to mend our broken-ness. Repairing that broken vase often involved applying a gold lacquer to cover (not hide) the seams of the broken item.

The result -- perhaps a new usable vase, but also the possibility of creating a new beautiful artwork in which the old hopeless shards take on new life.

For another view of Kint-sugi, I've always liked the following short description via YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUTQkaSSTY&ab_channel=TheSchoolofLife


Just some thoughts ... all inspired by Harkin's concise little poem.

May we all find ways to not just mend, but create new and meaningful art out of pieces so broken we'd given up hope of ever finding any good to help us carry forward.





~~ 

Greetings, Autodidact  -- love your name choice, and its reference to our self-learning capabilities.

While on the surface fearing to heal can seem counterintuitive, it makes sense in some ways. For instance, we're so conditioned by our deep hurts, it's hard to ever fathom healing in the first place. Then, when it seems like it could happen, it's like a familiar trait we'd gotten used to was yanked out, leaving a gap. Talk about starting over! In that sense, it's like any change -- mighty scary at times.

Then, too, it might feel too good to be true, and of course that same conditioning of how bad we are becomes tricky to navigate -- is this the real me? Do I deserve this? Sounds so simple, and the main desire of actually reaching what seemed so unreal and yet those reactions can also enter into the mising gap in consciousness. It can actually seem risky to enter the new territory.

Maybe, though, the fears are covering up the real hope -- yet the risk and anxiety pops up as a caution, causing one to be careful for what so long had been regarded as an impossible leap. Perhaps it is, and it could be radically different than anything one had ever expected well-being to feel like.

Rambling here, eh? I think, in the end, it speaks mostly to a willingness to be surprised that things can also take a turn for the good. At last there's daylight. It still takes discernment, though -- but still, a realization sets in that it might be real, even if radically different from what we'd envisioned. Scary, sure; but so worth the journey.

I'm still cautious, as it can also seem repetitive -- hopes up, back, neutral; hoping the taste of freedom wasn't just a fantasy. But for such good changes -- again, worth knowing that the storms may indeed have begun clearing enough to sense a new direction; beckoning us on towards deserved, even amazing, discoveries -- not really recovery, but far better than one's hopes had ever allowed, even in the most fantastic dreams.