[TW]Let's talk about scary stuff... I'll go first

[Jazzy]

Preface:
This is rather long. I expect this will be somewhat controversial, and some will disagree with me. That's totally fine, we all have our own experiences.

My goal in writing this is to:
1.   Get it off my chest
2.   Encourage others to share similar experiences they may be hesitant to bring up
3.   Generate some honest discussion on these topics.
I'm hesitant to post this, as I'm new to the idea of the "C" in CPTSD, but I was diagnosed with PTSD about 10 years ago, and I've been dealing with this stuff my whole life. So, I apologize in advance if the language I use is not quite what you're used to.

Well, here we go!

Personality:
The expectation of us to behave, and be held responsible like grown adults is frustrating to me, and continues to cause me distress. This was pointed out to me again today as the "crisis worker" I was talking to was figuring out how much of a danger I was at that point. I told her the same thing I tell everyone who asks. I will absolutely not hurt anyone intentionally, but if I'm aggravated while triggered, it is likely to end up very badly, as it has in the past. Only slightly less critically, we are expected to take care of ourselves and our dependants, fulfill our contractual/legal obligations, and generally fit in with society, while we are at an extreme disadvantage. I recently told a therapist it was like I have to play by the adult rules, but I didn't even get to really play by the child rules, and I don't even know what the adult rules really are.

A lot of us, including myself, have mentioned feeling empty, hollow, alien, or something similar. In all fairness, that is to be expected with chronic childhood trauma. It seems completely unreasonable to me that someone would feel like a whole person without a healthy childhood, adolescent, and young adult experience and transition. I'm sure some of us have, for the most, part made up for that, but some of us still have a lot of work to do. It is an almost impossible task, and it is not fair... but I believe it is doable with the right resources, and a lot of determination and effort. We've already made it through our childhood, we know more about determination, effort, and completing the near impossible than most could ever imagine, so no sweat.

For those of us who grew up with caregivers who have a personality disorder, it can be extremely difficult to figure out all the details of our mental health. Chances are, we reflect a lot of those actions and behaviours ourselves. This has been a cause of extreme distress to me, because I frequently read there is no cure for a personality disorder, recommendations are to completely break contact forever. This bothers me so much, because not only is my primary caregiver diagnosed with a personality disorder (perhaps more than one), I often act the same way, and that's enough for me to be diagnosed with the same disorder. Step back and look at this though. That's just acting how I was raised to act (by example), which is completely standard and expected. The problem is the way I was raised, not that I'm acting how I was raised. Yes, I am training myself to act better, as acting out a personality disorder is not a very good way to behave, but my point is that I'm not as broken as many would have me believe.

On the other side of that, during my worst emotional flashbacks, despite my best intentions, I act like a psychopath. It took me a number of years to realize that a psychopath acts very much like a traumatized 3-year-old in an adult's body. Again, when I look at it that way, it is pretty much what I expect. One of the ways that 3-year-old learned to survive is what is now called dissociative identity disorder with co-consciousness. I have 2 names, 2 personalities, 2 ways of speaking etc. The second set comes out in my worst flashbacks, like when I was young. While this is confusing, and bad, it's not practically harmful to anyone, so it's not so dire as most people imagine (and films portray). My point to all this, is that no one knows what's going on in your head but you. It is great to work with professionals, but don't let them talk you out of believing you know what you know about yourself.

Medication:
I was absolutely terrified to take psychoactive medication, and was against anything stronger than pain killers. It's serious chemistry, with generally severe effects. I think it's only natural for that to be a frightening prospect. I have been prescribed a lot of medication over the years (25+ different compounds/brands easily), and it does take a toll. However, it's not nearly as bad as I expected it to be.

My psychiatrist says I am sensitive to medication. I understand why he says this, as I usually show changes on a starting dose (less than what is normally prescribed for extended use), but I'm not sure he's entirely correct. Some of my worst prolonged anxiety attacks were while I was on a heavy course of sedatives, which doesn't seem to fit in to the "sensitive" category. For example, last summer, my agoraphobia was so bad I would shake and collapse when someone entered the house, despite being sedated all day, with more to take during such episodes. Perhaps that is more to do with tolerance than sensitivity. I don't know, I'm not very good at chemistry. Point being, if medication is prescribed to you, it's probably best to take it even if you're scared. Learning about what you're taking and the side effects and interactions can help a lot, as can having someone monitor or check in with you regularly.

The worst part of taking medication for me is trying to find "the right one". Out of the 25+ medications I've been prescribed, 4 have been notably beneficial. Unfortunately, 3 of those 4 have intolerable side effects. The problem with changing medication as often as every month or two for an extended period of time, at least a few years, is that it worsens underlying identity issues. In my experience, medication is a trade off. Wanted effects for side effects, and symptom management, for other aggravated issues. In most cases medication itself isn't going to cure anyone's mental health problems. Even the right one is just going to help keep our minds clear enough to be able to work on the root of the problem.

Summary:
You're not alone. It is difficult, but you've been through worse, so you can do it. Work with professionals who value your feedback, and be on the lookout for good trade offs (a lot of help for a little bit of unwanted side effects) in your journey through healing. Even if it doesn't feel like it, you are a person, and you are special, and cared for. 

[Three Roses]

Thank you, jazzy!

[Andyman73]

Hi Jazzy!

I like your approach here. Not sure I could do that, maybe something similar. I wasn't that good at that kind of thing in school, and somehow I don't think I aged well in this, like a good cheese or wine.

AS for scary stuff...I got enough to last me for the rest of my life....and then some.

Anyway...love to talk with you and stuff. Glad to have met you...and love ...LOVE...love your user name!!!

[sanmagic7]

jazzy, may i just speak for a moment about the notion that pd's are incurable?  i don't believe they are incurable if the person with the pd is willing to admit they have a problem and commit to working on it.  unfortunately, most of the time, the pd is very well defended, and the person resides within it without acknowledging their core issues.  that makes it very difficult to make major breakthroughs and subsequent changes.  it is do-able, tho, if they really want it.

meds are an experiment at best, because they may act differently with different people.  our brain chemistries are all different, so the chemicals can act or react according to the fit with the meds.  some people have no trouble and can stay on their meds for years, while others seem to bounce from one to the next with no relief.  it can be very frustrating.

your post seemed so organized, and i was kind of in awe of it.  thanks for sharing.  big hug.

[Blueberry]

jazzy, may i just speak for a moment about the notion that pd's are incurable?  i don't believe they are incurable if the person with the pd is willing to admit they have a problem and commit to working on it.  unfortunately, most of the time, the pd is very well defended, and the person resides within it without acknowledging their core issues.  that makes it very difficult to make major breakthroughs and subsequent changes.  it is do-able, tho, if they really want it.

I think it's so important that it should be repeated. Healing is possible for PDs, if they want to and are brave enough to look at their issues and see that they have problems. Idk if they'll ever get to a 100% healthy state, just as Idk that for myself. But change, oh yes, they could.

[M.R.]

An interesting idea with meds...The meds that were being tested with me hadn't worked all that well. I found out because of that, a test is able to be done by taking some of my blood and checking my DNA to see what meds would work better for me. I don't know how wide spread this is. I just heard it from the clinic I go to.

[Jazzy]

Wow, thanks for the positive feedback everyone. I was expecting the worst, and I was being extremely critical of my writing. You're all awesome!



On the topic of PDs being curable, I really don't know. I think it highly depends on the cause of it. A lot of physical brain damage cannot be "fixed" yet. On the other hand, the brain is an amazing thing, especially with neuroplasticity and strong therapy. I know a person who has a schizoid based disorder from physical brain damage. They have confided in me that they feel no empathy (telltale sign of psychosis), but are able to compensate for it by logically thinking through the consequences of their actions. I'm told it's exhausting doing that for everything consciously, but far better than the alternative. So, that's great. A perfect example that change is possible for sure, even in extremely bad cases. I'm not sure if they (or anyone with PD or other disorders) will be 100%, but I think that's okay, and I doubt many of us are really 100%.

I struggle with this a lot from a philosophical point. From my experience in mental health care, it isn't based on "primary data". I can remember the name of 5 different doctors I've seen for diagnosis. After a half hour interview they write a report and make their diagnoses. I don't think it's very accurate. To have a diagnosis you need to exhibit the majority of symptoms, and the doctor needs to believe you suffer from that particular thing based on their previous experience. So, I expect we have a lot of misdiagnosed PDs, which are really more of a learned behaviour problem. But, does that really matter? If you act a certain way, isn't that the practical point? I'm not sure... but there's far too much "guesswork" for my liking.

Speaking of practicality, I think you guys are right, if people look at their issues and work on their problems (especially with professional help), things can be a lot better.



MelodieRose: That's awesome! I'm really glad you were able to use science to get "primary data" so you can find what helps better. I really wish that was an option here! I hope that soon enough it will be. I've read about some amazing advances like that I'm really excited about!

[Andyman73]

Jazzy,

I think you're spot on about being misdiagnosed with PDs because most doctors push you right through. I know that the Veterans Affairs here in the States is very very bad with that. But much of that is malpractice based, intentionally denying Veterans benefits. Because the VA sees PDs as pre-existing conditions and don't have to provide benefits then

Sadly this happens most of the time to victims of sex crimes in the Military. Instead of DX them with PTSD, which then awards the Veterans with benefits.

Even I experienced that to some degree. The psychologist I've been seeing for nearly 3 years, is yet to give me an assessment to get a true scope of my mental health.

[Jazzy]

Whoa, that sounds terrible. The idea of malpractice is horrifying, especially if it is intentional. I'm not sure what else to say on that. I don't think words can really do it justice.

Andyman73, it sounds really frustrating to not know fully what you're dealing with. I don't think I'm there either, but I'm closer than I ever have been. Are you able to work with a psychiatrist for a bit? I prefer getting diagnoses from one of them, because they tend to think more in terms of "cause and effect". Hopefully that would help you get a better understanding of everything with your mental health. They're more open to feedback from you about their diagnoses as well; at least that's how it has been in my experience.

Perhaps you may be able to work with your psychologist to get the assessment you're looking for. Surely they will have some good feedback, especially after 3 years. No one else is "in your head" though. It's really something you need to figure out for yourself, and ultimately find peace with. Its extremely difficult. I really wish I had something more encouraging for you. I don't know where you're at in your journey, but keep fighting the good fight. Do what you need to do, write things out, make maps, or diagrams, or whatever. Maybe you can think about what's stopping you from knowing that true scope? Hopefully that will help you move forward.

[Andyman73]

Jazzy,

Yeah, is pretty bad. All those scandals you hear about, with the VA healthcare system, are true.

I only just begun my journey, all my abuse memories were suppressed. I had no idea, not even an inkling that something had happened.  My memories started coming back this January, and haven't stopped yet.

Only a few things were even apparent. Nightmares that started when I was 3, screaming night terror type nightmares. And they went well into adulthood.  Also ADD symptoms that started in 2nd grade...always staring out the windows or off in space...zoning out.  I used to tell my parents all kinds of stories, dreams, memories, deja vu, for years. But..they just shut me down. Always telling me I remember wrong, or differently, or embellish them.  Shut down and silenced.

Had a psychiatric evaluation about a month ago. Will be seeing her on the 21st. Will get results then, I guess. Wasn't overly indepth, I don't think. But will let her know that I would like more indepth testing, like the MIDS .  She is at a private provider, where as the psychologist that I've been seeing for several years, is at the VA. I've only just begun to tell him some of my childhood experiences. Mostly we've only talked about what happened to me while I was in the Marines. And how it has been effecting me since then.

[sanmagic7]

i've also heard the horror stories about the va in the states.  it is a remarkable shame that this country doesn't do more for its traumatized protectors (and, if i haven't said it before, to all on this forum who have served their countries in the armed forces, thank you very much.  i don't know that i could have done what you have.)

i do hope and pray that you get some help that is also personal and individual, not just related to your service experience.  there's so much more to you than that.  has this 3 yrs. been productive, do you think/feel?  that's a lot of therapy time, so i do hope you've been able to make some progress.  a long time to go without a diagnosis, too.

i say that because when i was an active therapist, i was supposed to take an in-depth history of a client and render a diagnosis in the first session for ins. purposes.  maybe they do it differently in the va because you're already being covered for treatment no matter what the diagnosis.

i think you're doing a remarkable job dealing with all this, andy, especially since you really only began remembering your past in depth for less than a year.  i give you so much credit for tackling all you've been thru.  you deserve some resolution and healing.  sending you a big hug, filled with caring and love.

[Jazzy]

That sounds rough Andy, I'm sorry you've been through all that.

Our stories have some different details, but I can relate to the years of night terrors and sleep problems with everyone saying it wasn't a big deal, and chasing other diagnoses for years.

I agree with sanmagic, it sounds like you're doing great, especially for the beginning of your journey. I'd encourage you to be patient with yourself. It sounds like you've been through a number of years of pain, and it takes time to understand it all, and longer to heal. Keep up the good work, and I'm sure things will continue to improve!

[Andyman73]

San, 
I think George Washington said something about that. That you can gauge the character of a country's government by the way they treat their Veterans. So....the government of the U.S. wouldn't fare very well based on that assessment.

I do think the 3 years has had some positive impact, it's kept me from permanently changing my living status from living to not. It's only been since The last Monday of January, the 30th, I think it was, that I disclosed to him that I was sa/r while in the Marines. But the 2 years prior, I had no idea what or why I was living with cptsd since 1994.  And it was only the last session with him that I started disclosing my abuse before my time in the Marines.  However I only see him every 5-7 weeks, about 10 times a year. Where as my newer t, the one I'm losing, been seeing her every week.

I think some of it has to do with automatic coverage.  I know there was some assessment done, because he did dx me with major depression. 

Mostly what I been doing is just trying to get through the ending of my marriage. It's so hard to try to work through anything while still being abused by wife.  She gaslight me so much, even now as she's making huge strides to get the next chapter of her life started.  She got a good job starting in January already. 

Really makes me feel like being passed on, left behind, overlooked.

[DecimalRocket]

Hey Jazzy, I don't really have enough knowledge or experience to contribute to this thread. I'm just here to say that I've listened and I wish the best of luck to you. 

[Erebor]

Hey Jazzy, I don't really have enough knowledge or experience to contribute to this thread. I'm just here to say that I've listened and I wish the best of luck to you. 

I'd echo DecimalRocket, I'm in a very dissociative place right now, so just reading the forum and writing fairly simple replies is almost too much for my brain, but I really like your post - the summary bit at the end is particularly encouraging and reassuring at the moment. I like the formatting too. Thank you for writing all this up, I hope it helps you as much as anyone else.

Mostly what I been doing is just trying to get through the ending of my marriage. It's so hard to try to work through anything while still being abused by wife.  She gaslight me so much, even now as she's making huge strides to get the next chapter of her life started.  She got a good job starting in January already. 

Really makes me feel like being passed on, left behind, overlooked.

We're here for you, Andyman - I know the feeling of being invisible, though that's not quite the same as what you're experiencing currently... I'm sorry you're going through this. You still matter, you still have worth, you still have value, regardless of whether or not someone else stays or leaves.