I got mad at a deer this morning

[BigGreenSee123]

I live in an area where deer are as common as the average chipmunk. So it wasn't a surprise, really, when I came across one this morning. I was out for a run on these trails behind my house and happened upon one. It was a small buck, a "two pointer" as they say given the size of his antlers. And he was right in the middle of my only path home.

On a better day this might have been neat, funny even, but not today. I just wanted to go home. For about 20 seconds it was cool to be so close to one but then I started to try and get him to move but he just stood there looking at me. I clapped, I told him aloud to go away, I walked toward him a bit; I was afraid to get close, though, afraid he might charge at me (do they do that?). He didn't budge, just stared. At one point he even started to eat - totally unperturbed by my presence.

Now this all seems kind of silly, I get that. But at the time I just felt entirely helpless. I couldn't go back down the path, I didn't want to get closer, and the woods are thick so I could really go around. And the deer just kept staring at me and it felt like he knew he was getting right in my way and was staying there on purpose. I felt so helpless and dejected so quickly. Even now, I can picture that deer looking at me and it still feels mean, goading, uncaring.

Finally he started to move and I slowly followed until he was far enough for me to get by. Fortunately, it only took another 5 minutes of thinking about this to realize why an experience with a deer - I usually love deer, all animals - bothered me so much. I am into the mind + psychology so I find myself to be both frustrated and fascinated by this strange process.

Anyone else find themselves provoked by otherwise pretty benign things?

[Dutch Uncle]

A full grown deer (male or female) is not something to toy with, BigGreenSee123.   
Just think of the weight they'll throw at you  .
They might even give you a (what they know to be) gentle 'nudge' to keep you at bay.
And leave you in tatters. Through no fault of their own (or yours).

You handled this very well. By staying put.
"Freeze" isn't a bad response by default. 

[BigGreenSee123]

True, they're quite large. Maybe next time (if there is a next time?) I'll work on my assertiveness: "Excuse me there Mr. Deer, I see you are enjoying yourself munching on those bushes but it is time for me to go home and you're blocking my way so you need to move. Please and thank you!"

[Dutch Uncle]

Sure! He might even step aside. They're not stupid. 
If he/she doesn't, back to plan A. 

[arpy1]

hmmm, i dunno, i think that buck might have been a couple of sandwiches short of a country picnic.  it just didn't occur to him that he was one intimate wildlife encounter too many for you today.  he was probably waiting for you to take a selfie with him... maybe he'd have moved ssoner for you if you had. 

I live in an area where deer are as common as the average chipmunk.

this gave me a chuckle. i only ever saw chipmunks in a zoo!  the nearest i get to deer are the little muntjacs that have colonised this part of the country.... if one of those charged you, you'd just get bruised knees...

[woodsgnome]

Not sure if I have anything useful, but being as I live in a huge forested area full of deer, bears, eagles, wolves (some years coyotes; this year wolves), lynx, and lots of others, I thought I'd venture a thought or two.

Deer usually aren't aggressive...they're more hyper-vigilant than the worst cptsd variety (I count myself in that category). Your deer probably would have bolted, once he knew you were there.

I hope it's okay to venture a humourous take (I hesitate 'cause my humour tends to be subtle and often missed; cptsd connection--my sublety was developed living in a den of religious/serious zealots who had no humour whatsoever). So have you considered acting like a turkey? The most frightened I've ever seen a deer was when a wild turkey surprised one in a clearing out my window once. That deer leaped and was off in a flash, snorting and trumpeting his panic for all to hear; while the turkey just kept gobbling its way across the clearing. Generally, though, deer are pretty benign. Freaked by turkeys, though.

Probably my most interesting encounter was walking straight into a bear one day. Too late to formulate any plan, the bear sauntered right across the trail in front of me. For some reason my dogs weren't with me then (don't have dogs now), 'cause bears are easily spooked by dogs--the big ones, that is; mine were huskies.

Anyway, there we were, just crossing paths. Black bears usually are okay, unless startled. And as I just seemed to be sauntering along, and the bear doing likewise, we each just became aware of each other at the last second, within a couple feet of each other; the bear kept going where it was headed, as did I. If cubs had been involved, different story, but there wasn't in this case. Once in a great while one will saunter up to the house, then it's just tell 'em to scoot, usually. The obvious no-no is not to have garbage outside and it keeps us neighbourly, I guess.

Gosh, never thought I'd be telling wildlife tales on this site.
Makes up for the nasty human ones, maybe.

[BigGreenSee123]

he was probably waiting for you to take a selfie with him... maybe he'd have moved ssoner for you if you had. 

Lol it's too bad I didn't think of that, that could've been one heck of a photo. It was a very unusual deer - typically they flee at the drop of a hat but this one was barely a car lengths away and was standing there eating twigs.

So have you considered acting like a turkey? The most frightened I've ever seen a deer was when a wild turkey surprised one in a clearing out my window once. That deer leaped and was off in a flash, snorting and trumpeting his panic for all to hear; while the turkey just kept gobbling its way across the clearing. Generally, though, deer are pretty benign. Freaked by turkeys, though.

If I find myself crossing paths with this guy again and nothing else works there's always the turkey dance. Thanks or the suggestions 

[Kizzie]

...at the time I just felt entirely helpless. I couldn't go back down the path, I didn't want to get closer, and the woods are thick so I could really go around. And the deer just kept staring at me and it felt like he knew he was getting right in my way and was staying there on purpose. I felt so helpless and dejected so quickly. Even now, I can picture that deer looking at me and it still feels mean, goading, uncaring.

Your deer sounds like a few of my FOO - stare right through me, don't hear me, don't give a hoot about my needs, and who goad and smirk at my discomfort . Yup, check, check, check and check.  I can definitely see why it triggered you. 

I like the idea of being a turkey although in my FOO it was just more fodder for the "It's her and not us" campaign.  Hard to say with a deer if it would scare, provoke or have the opposite effect and perhaps even entertain 

[tired]

I have reactions to animals a lot and they never really make sense.   I see a bird that looks a little mean and I imagine it's a predator. I'm talking about finches or whatever. Not like a vulture.  In fact I might feel a kinship with a vulture.

It just depends on my mood at the moment.

The other day I saw a young deer and we locked eyes. I decided to slowly walk towards it and it ran away. I felt rejected. 

It's a little unsettling, especially when I react to pets.  My border collie was too aloof; the next dog was too needy.  This was a huge problem when I was trying to get a cat.  I went through three cats before I found a kitten that I didn't hate. The first one was a male and I had this reaction like he had a pd and was maybe an escaped convict.  Then I got an old lady cat that I felt was going to be too judgemental. I visited about five kittens and finally picked the tiniest one.  It seemed like a super critical decision and I made a huge deal out of it.

I also had two lizards that both died and I feel like I took my hostility out on them somehow and didn't take care of them.  Thinking about them makes me feel like a mean horrible person.  I have a fish that is not looking great right now and I look at it with intense sadness. 

I don't know what this means.

[BigGreenSee123]

Initially I thought this response to the deer was an unusual event, a weird and random response. But as I read over the comments here I realize I've had other, similar reactions to animals. I never thought my childhood dog liked me. It always stung a bit when the family would come home and he'd excitedly greet everyone except me (at least that's what I felt like was happening). And I have felt similar reactions from other pets and wildlife and things - I determine they have some animalistic sense about my soul and run away because they've seen it's worthlessness.

I can see how this might happen, though. Animals can easily be the blank slates on which we project our fears, etc. I do it with people all the time - assume the worst, think I'm being judged, feel like I'm threatened. Why not do it with animals that are living beings too? Similar processes I imagine. That look, the blank stare may be all that's needed to trigger a response, whether it's from the eyes of a human, a deer, a bird, whatever.

[woodsgnome]

BigGreenSee123 wrote:

"Animals can easily be the blank slates on which we project our fears, etc. I do it with people all the time - assume the worst, think I'm being judged, feel like I'm threatened."

Very intriguing, that sense of being observed, and the need to step away from the imagined threat. I feel totally like that around humans, not at all though around most animals.

Perhaps the difference is your family dog experience, the wary reaction of it to you, and being as he was identified with the other people, perhaps you extended or thought of him in that vein--as an associated threat. And perhaps transferred that to all animals in general.

My experience was different. While the m had cats, she was weirdly antagonistic to them; seemed to hate them, but kept them anyway. I felt more allied with the cats than with most humans, especially the m, who treated them about as awful as she did me. So I developed a sympathetic bond, I guess, which I probably translated into animals and wildlife in general. Nowadays, I live in an area with more wildlife than people; and while I didn't end up like this because of the wildlife, they're just a part of the neighbourhood, so to speak.

Hmm, so whereas you projected your fears of judgement onto animals, I seem to have projected my hopes of acceptance onto animals. Or something. It's stark, though--I'm petrified of people, all the time, even though I'm outwardly as social as needs dictate.

That said, I don't feel very safe around wild turkeys--they can be vicious. And red squirrels have no sense of boundaries. 

[missbliss]

Provoked by benign things....well....children are very provoking for me these days - as are most human beings.

[Dutch Uncle]

It always stung a bit when the family would come home and he'd excitedly greet everyone except me (at least that's what I felt like was happening).

I found what you said there interesting.
It might be triggering for you though regarding your childhood in the foo.
**possibly trigger**
(highlight to read)
Dogs are animals that live in packs. In these packs there is a very strict hierarchy. Much more so than among humans. And the hierarchy is reestablished, kept in order on a daily basis, and violence is par of the course in it. I've lived near packs of wild dogs, and it's not a pretty sight, and the frequency of the fights is astonishing.
Proper house training for a dog consists of letting the dog know he is the lowest in the pecking order. Humans first, dog last. Much of the dog's behavior you often see in human settings, the tail-wagging, the face licking, the laying on the back, etc. are all body-language that signal submission. It's what they do when they meet the alfa (male or female) of the pack, and then the whole pecking order of those 'superior' to the dog's own position in the pack. The 'top-dog' does some of this only sparsely, when (s)he feels a little bit of reprocity is in order (with the exemption of the 'laying on the back', the surrender/submission 'move')
Perhaps the dog saw you as more or less equal to his position in the 'pack', and so you were not given the curtesy (s)he gave the others of your FOO.

Summary: It might be a clue on your position in the FOO that the dog 'sniffed out', given his evolutionary instincts on hierarchy.

[arpy1]

Dutch Uncle, you are very wise.

Woodsgnome:

That said, I don't feel very safe around wild turkeys--they can be vicious. And red squirrels have no sense of boundaries. 

hmmm, that remark reminds me of those two therapists i had......

[BigGreenSee123]

Hmm, so whereas you projected your fears of judgement onto animals, I seem to have projected my hopes of acceptance onto animals. Or something. It's stark, though--I'm petrified of people, all the time, even though I'm outwardly as social as needs dictate.

Intriguing indeed. I totally get it, how animals can be the innocent, comfortable companion for people. I know many who feel this way and I understand it. And yet, while I would describe myself as someone who does like animals, I guess if I think about it, the typical reaction I have to them is not like yours. I think you have an interesting idea here about how we may have ended up with different reactions to similar things.

Either way, I'm glad animals have been a comfort to you over the years .

Summary: It might be a clue on your position in the FOO that the dog 'sniffed out', given his evolutionary instincts on hierarchy.

Hmm. I must admit I was surprised to find that what you said did strike a bit of a soft spot. I guess I have always tried to convince myself (in this and other situations) that the negative response I'm feeling isn't true - that it's me projecting judgment and I'm not really the less-than person I suspect everyone is believing me to be. But the thought that maybe I was right on target with this one, that I did have some kind of lesser status and not only did my dog sense this but then turned away from me also because of it...well that one stings a bit.