Living As All of Me

[HannahOne]

SanMagic7 I can't grow even weeds. Thanks for the support!

PapaCoco, your experience is very interesting. I had not thought of it like this: "But when we cried out for help and our caregivers either ignored us or hurt us, then the natural flow of energy to our survival mechanisms were pinched off." That's it, a flow of energy is blocked.

With the horse it was all about getting them moving, trotting, so the energy could move, even though moving often led to exploding at the end of the rope, bucking kicking galloping. After a time, the trot would become more rhythmic, the head would drop, shake the neck, snort.

I am trying to move more, physically move. And also move through the world, try on outfits, try things out, try talking, try writing, try cooking new things. Trying to get the energy moving after about five years of not moving, hunkering down, freeze. Trying to help that flow of energy complete the circuit.

[HannahOne]

Talking to my therapist about making a morning routine.

I get up. Get the kids breakfast, pack their lunch, get the dogs breakfast, the rabbit breakfast. Walk the dogs.

What about your breakfast? What would you like to eat? the therapist asks.

Oatmeal, eggs, I say.

And what to drink?

Water, I say.

Water, ok, she says, and coffee?

I don't drink coffee, I say, the last thing I need is more anxiety.

Ok she says, juice?

I don't drink juice.

How about tea? she says. Tea is nice in the morning, nice and warm.

Ok, ok, I say, I'll have tea.
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I start to laugh. I'll have tea? I laugh hysterically until I cry. At the least pressure, even in complete safety, I cannot not give in. Sure, I'll have tea. Bring on the tea.

*******

I hate conflict. I don't want to argue. How many times have I said that to her? I hate conflict. I don't want to argue.

We have a big snow where I live. It's rare. It's beautiful. It's triggering. My kids want me to come out with them in the snow. "Nope! Mom doesn't like snow." I watch from the window briefly. When I was a kid, building a snowman would often devolve into a snowfight. It ended with me red faced, face down in the snow, mouth full of snow, his hand on the back of my head. For too long. He always had to win. The winner takes it all.

One day we walked miles in the snow to skate, because driving was impossible, and because it would be fun. Huge flakes coming down, my snow pants creaking against themselves, trying to walk in his steps as the snow was past my knees. I was exhausted and freezing, but terrified to keep up. He couldn't carry me, he had his hands full. We got to a small pond. I collapsed into the snow to rest. The tree branches were heavy with snow, bending down to touch the surface of the frozen water, also covered with a foot of snow. He began to shovel the snow off the pond. He never tired.

It was silent. It seemed we were the only two people in the world. Time slowed down. Big flakes falling. Would it ever stop snowing? Would the world ever reappear? If I screamed, would anyone hear? What if the pond wasn't fully frozen? If he fell in, what would I do? It would take me an hour to "run" home in snow past my knees. He made his way to the middle of the pond. "Please don't!" I screamed. "Are you crazy?" he yelled. "It'll be fun!"

After a time a clearing was made and he took off his boots and put on skates. He seemed like a god, hands behind his back and gliding along on the reflection of the slate gray sky. He called me out to the middle of the pond. My stomach sank. I didn't want to argue.

If I died, I died. There was no alternative but to go. I had only my boots, and slipped and skittered to him. Would I fall through? Was it solid? I couldn't trust him to know, couldn't trust my own feet. I grabbed onto his mittened hands and he pulled me along, skating backwards. Thrilling, terrifying, surreal. Everything with him was thrilling, terrifying, surreal.  Always the manic high, and the stomach sinking feeling.

I question myself. There are different perspectives. He was unaware of how scared I was on the ice, or just knew better? Wanted me to be brave, tough. He thinks he is generous and kind. He could've been watching TV instead of taking me out in the snow. And I didn't fall in, did I? Did I? No I did not. He would never put me in danger. Would he? The ice was solid, if it held him, it would hold me.

It's a no-win situation.

I'm ungrateful. Hysterical. Shame to keep me small and quiet, to make sure I don't argue, to keep my words stuffed into my throat, melting away like snow.

***

Ok, ok, I'll have tea.

My acquiescence kept me small. Shame and fawning allowed me to survive many storms. Fighting only led to being held down longer. Refusing only led to being dragged. He was going to take me out on the ice whether I was tired or not, had skates on or not, and he was going to spin me around until I was dizzy whether I cried or not. I know this.

Because I wasn't an adult who could speak up, negotiate, or refuse. Or scream.

Because he thought it was fun, fine, that I was tough, brave, that he was kind, good.

Yet I excoriate myself. I hate myself. I hate that I'll agree to drink tea because my kindly therapist wants me to have something more than just plain water, wants me to think about what I want, wants me to want it and take it. Wants me to win, win the morning at least. Wants to win me back to real life where things are solid under my feet and I know it, where I'm not walking on ice cold water, where I can walk across the kitchen floor and know it's not going to give way, can take my time to make tea instead of grabbing water and running back to bed. Wants me to know I'm somewhere that someone will hear me if I scream. That screaming could be brave, too.

[Chart]

HannahOne, you remind me just how hard this stuff is. Damned if you do-stuff... I don't believe in screaming by orders from higher-up. But the higher-ups aren't always wrong. Annoying that.

[NarcKiddo]

The ice was solid, if it held him, it would hold me.

Sure. But would it hold the both of you? Your concerns were always valid.

I hear you about your kindly therapist. My husband is like this. He tries to make things better for me, making all manner of assumptions along the way. Quite reasonable assumptions that don't apply to me because - why? I am not a reasonable person? I don't know the answer, but I'd have said "yes" to the tea, too. I'd probably have cracked at juice, to be honest.

[SenseOrgan]

I'm not sure if I'm interpreting your entry correctly. Please ignore if I'm missing the mark. And perhaps I'm too direct, so a bit of a TW there. Reading your words, I was taken back to an experience in which there was no bs'ing myself possible. What I saw clearly, is that deep down, I don't want to be alive. Because this existence is so painful. It that it? Does your therapist skip over this by insisting on you reaching certain goals? Does your therapist allow you to have these feelings? Does (s)he make space for that to be real and validated in connection?

Generally, people seem to flip out on me drinking water. Hot water in particular. Except for tea in the morning, it's about all I drink. Because I like it. My therapist found it a little odd too when I started with it. He didn't push me like yours did though. There were just the facial expressions and perhaps a few remarks indicating it's a little odd to him. After a while, he started asking me if I'd like some hot water. It didn't feel like therapy for me, but these things can be. 

[sanmagic7]

hannah1, i don't understand why water isn't good enough!  i drink water for breakfast most days, don't have an appetite for anything else till later in the day.  but water is so important for our bodies, our systems, so i don't understand the push to drink something else.  maybe it's me.

i heard about a friend who wrote 'NO' on a card when they went to see their T.  they couldn't get the word out of their mouth, but at the beginning of the session, they told their T they would hold that word up because they had trouble saying it.  i thought it was some good problem-solving. 

you'll get there, keep talking about it - maybe you can talk to your T about it in your next session?  therapists are not god figures, not parental figures - they're meant to be guides to help you get from where you are to where you want to be.  encouraging, but not necessarily pushy.  i just feel bad you went thru this w/ your T.  love and hugs

[TheBigBlue]

I'd have said "yes" to the tea, too. I'd probably have cracked at juice, to be honest.

    me too.     

[HannahOne]

I don't know guys. I dont know what to think or how to interpret it. I was shocked that I agreed to tea. Everything stopped for a second. Why did I agree to that, it was involuntary. It felt really bad to me because it was involuntary.

At the same time, I don't know what's pushing and what's just a conversation?

Rarely she pushes, if it's a medical thing I'm avoiding. I don't think she was pushing really... I think she was just conversing, and I interpreted it as a conflict I wanted to avoid.

I guess she is pushing a little, in wanting me to "take better care of myself." And plain water and oatmeal maybe seemed like prison food  to her or something. I really only drink water. No ice. I grew up with only water.

And I am fortified in my position! a lot of you seem to drink just water   Thanks for the solidarity!

And I'm not the only one who cracks TheBigBlue, Chart, NarcKiddo.

NarcKiddo what you said about "so many things that seem reasonable to her, just don't apply to me." Yeah. I can't quite relate to a "civilized breakfast." I make a nice spread for the family, but tend to eat my dry toast by myself after they leave. Because I was raised by wolves? I dunno.

SanMagic7, I love the idea of a card with "no" on it! I gave my kid a set of communication cards because occasionally they can be nonverbal due to neurology. I know there have been times I have to write a few words rather than say them to the therapist. I'm going to make a "no" card and see if I can have a conflict that way for the next session

SenseOrgan, part of me doesn't want to exist, and, I'm in zero danger and very motivated to be here and heal. Maybe not wanting to do a morning routine is in part not wanting to be here, not wanting to wake up and recall how my life is. I have trouble sleeping, but I do wake up feeling happy initially, for about 15 seconds, until I remember "oh yeah, my past." Which is something that happened in my childhood, I woke up in the morning feeling peaceful, and then quickly recalled my situation with a sinking stomach and had no interest in breakfast, which wasn't often offered, and girded myself in the freezing cold to start powering through my day on nothing more than a glass of water.

I think what happened with the therapist was... in the face of feeling a little pushed, I disappeared. I also think you're onto something in that maybe I didn't even want to talk about a morning routine. Ive been in therapy for 30 years, for Frank's sake I know how to make a morning routine. I know all therapists want a little behavioral activation to round out the work, fair. But I think your sense is right in that she and I may be skating over the surface of some waters that are deeper than "coffee, or tea?" Why a morning routine might be loaded, or why a morning routine might not be the solution to my emotional state/flashback experience in the mornings.

Maybe my "ok ok I'll have tea" speaks to the dynamic between her and me, where I can't say "no" to the entire agenda of making a morning routine in the session, where she's pushing the therapy agenda/pulling me around on the surface of the ice and she isn't really aware of the danger I perceive and the dark waters I feel we're over.  Why the "let's make a morning routine" agenda feels very unsafe to me, even though she's standing on the ice herself and it seems solid to her.

Her attitude wasn't pushing, it was more "Let's do a morning routine, it'll be fun!" ...but I guess I did feel like screaming. And I didn't say something like "there's more to it than making a schedule." I wasn't able in the moment to do that.

I will have to think about how to approach this with her. I'm pretty sure she can go to dark waters, we have before. It's more, can I say the words in the moment. Thank you for commenting, SenseOrgan.

Meanwhile I'm watching myself with clients, friends, my sibling, PT, doctors, in a very passive state, nodding and agreeing and not tolerating the least friction. If I say my arm hurts and the PT says try a few more, I try a few more. If I ask a kid to walk the dog and they purposely don't look up, I just move on. If I am in line at the post office and someone gets in front of me, I just leave. That's not like me, so I must be triggered by something. Maybe having to do all the doctor appointments and having some white coat syndrome. maybe the snow. who knows.

I am printing this Bugs Bunny and putting it in my wallet:

[TheBigBlue]

Yes, water (preferably sparkling) no ice. Nothing else really.

[SenseOrgan]

I'm very happy to hear you're in zero danger and very motivated to be here and heal! YES to that! YES to life! YES to YOU!

There's so much in what you wrote that I recognize! I've ended up in situations and have done things that shocked me afterwards. Because I lost my agency. It's more obvious this happens with another F response, but with the fawn variety it feels more like I'm still present. Except I'm not. Not really. Not as me. With enough threat detection [neuroceptively speaking], my survival self takes over and I'm also the person who agrees to tea. Disappearing, exactly. I hate it when that happens. It feels awful. There's anger beneath it. That anger can be fuel for emancipation if it isn't directed at myself. There's a connection to what I do want in it. That's valid and powerful. It can be a pathway out of the holding pattern of shame.

Working with therapists has more than once triggered unsafety. By definition there is an agenda for the client. That's the whole point, isn't it? This can get tricky if therapist and client aren't entirely on the same page in the moment. It can get very subtle. But I think people with our sort of history pick up on all of that, consciously or unconsciously. When my preference is met with a value judgement, however subtle, it can trigger a fawn response. Knowing that the therapist has good intentions doesn't prevent the transference from happening. My system responds as if I was left no space to exist authentically. Again. And the way I learned to survive such a situation kicks in just as easily decades later. Because I don't have enough interpersonal experiences that taught me it is in fact, okay and safe to be me. And that it's perfectly fine to want or don't want certain things that others don't agree with. It can be even more difficult with a therapist, because there often is an assumption they know what's best for us. That could be true. My position is that it only is when we are on board with it. It only works with an internal "yes" of the client, which may or may not follow that which is brought up. If it's an internal "no", that can be equally valid and worth while to explore. I think it's safe to lead with your intuition.

for Frank's sake

You made my day with that. Boy do I enjoy this kind of playfulness with words. It's a keeper, for sure. 

[SenseOrgan]

O, I was logged out when I clicked on the picture that didn't show... Dunno what's going on there. I cant's see it, unfortunately 

[Chart]

O, I was logged out when I clicked on the picture that didn't show... Dunno what's going on there. I cant's see it, unfortunately 

SO, you did nothing wrong:
"Attachments awaiting approval"
I've a sneaking suspicion that Kizzie's overworked (and very likely underpaid :-)

[Chart]

My position is that it only is when we are on board with it. It only works with an internal "yes" of the client, which may or may not follow that which is brought up. If it's an internal "no", that can be equally valid and worth while to explore. I think it's safe to lead with your intuition.

I totally agree, only I would change "internal" to "explicit". For me, the whole idea of therapy is to simply find these limits and bring them into consciousness. The fact that so many of my reactions remain hidden from me indicates that their ultimate purpose is a secondary task to figure out. First I have to identify them, THEN I can work on changing them. There's definitely a place for a therapist to push some boundaries on occasion, in a non-violent fashion and with awareness on their part. Friends do the same thing for friends. It starts with soft and easy hints... then we can move forward depending on the realizations that come about. It doesn't matter tea or water, what matters is that the source for the decision is understood and fully conscious.
 

[TheBigBlue]

 

[HannahOne]

I'm sorry about the picture. If you search "Bugs Bunny saying No" it will come up and I find it so funny! NO.

SenseOrgan I really appreciated your response. Yes," knowing the other person has a good intention doesn't prevent the response" I have. I'm so frustrated with myself about this. It's happening everywhere right now. I feel self-hatred. And I know that's another part. Part of me acquiesces, another part objects and criticizes me for acquiescing. The self-hatred was actually trying to preserve my sense of self and self-respect by objecting to fawning, by reminding me I was not only an object for the use of other people. The self-hatred is intense! Thanks all parts, I guess. LOL.

I'm struggling to find my intuition. When I look inside I feel like there's nothing. I know that's not true and I haven't felt that way in the past. I think that I am quieting and calming a lot of internal noise, which is great. And, I was very identified with the noise, stories, inner conflict, waves of feelings. So with all of that quieter, I feel .... quiet It feels like "nothing." I have to wait for my intuition or instincts to come into awareness, they're quieter than the fears. But I did smack into it! NOT tea. WATER. My Self is the one who has preferences. You dont have preferences in a war zone. But I'm not in a war zone. I can have preferences. I can have boundaries. I can have water, or tea, I can make a morning routine or not. If I focus on what I want for myself, I feel my self come more into presence, I can feel there's "something" in there. If I'm focused on what the other person thinks or wants, I look inside and feel there's "nothing." As you said, "I erase myself." 

Chart, I loved what you said "For me, the whole idea of therapy is to simply find these limits and bring them into consciousness." I guess that's what happened. I didn't realize I had such strong preferences about drinks in the morning... and that I had a different agenda in that moment... some more passive part of me had taken over and I was just along for the ride, sure, morning routine, uh huh uh huh, until I had to make a few decisions and realized WAIT A MINUTE I don't even want to be doing this! LOL. Limit firmly brought into consciousness!