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Messages - sj

#16
I was sent this today by someone I'd sent the Power Threat Meaning Framework info to. It's very similar in approach.
http://www.midpsy.org/draft_manifesto.htm

I've not finished reading through, yet, but I found the following section really good for pointing out some massive flaws in pop psych approaches and general cultural attitudes. I've highlighted the beginnings and ends of each paragraph as they strike me as succinct encapsulation of the main points.

"Distress is not the consequence of inner flaws or weaknesses. All mainstream approaches to 'therapy' locate the origin of psychological difficulty within the individual, usually as some kind of idiosyncracy of past experience. A morally neutral 'normality' may thus be seen as having become 'neurotically' distorted via, for example, unconscious personal desires or errors of personal judgment (e.g., over-generalization of negative experiences). Certainly this is the way we often experience our distress since such experience is inevitably interior. But experience and explanation are two very different things Professional therapy tends to presume that both the causes and the experience of distress are interior, since this affords the therapist a legitimate ground of intervention: individuals can be worked on in ways that social and material circumstances cannot. Individuals thus quickly learn to see themselves as in some way personally defective when in fact their troubled experience arises from a defective environment (Smail, 2005).

Neither is distress the consequence of cognitive errors, or failures to process information correctly. Those therapeutic approaches that do not attribute distress to some kind of personal emotional defect (however acquired) often point instead to 'cognitive' failure. The possibility that individuals, through no fault of their own, have drawn the wrong conclusions from unfortunate eventualities may at least have the advantage of absolving them from the odour of blame or personal shortcoming that tends often to waft around more 'psychodynamic' approaches. Again, this kind of view allows the therapist an apparently legitimate field of operation in re-working the person's cognitive processes. It does so, however, at the expense of a truly convincing account of human learning. There is, surely, enough evidence of what a distressing place the world can be for us to avoid the necessity of concluding that the distress we experience is somehow mistaken (Smail, 2001a; 2005).

So-called 'individual differences' in susceptibility to distress are largely the consequences of prior socialization. The fact that some of us seem to survive adverse experience unscathed while others are thrown into confusion or despair may be taken as pointing to 'interior', personal qualities: 'self-esteem', 'willpower', or most recently 'resilience'. However, it is far easier, and more credible, to point to the embodied advantages someone has acquired over time from the social/material environment than it is to postulate essentially mysterious and unanalysable personal qualities that originate from within. To mistake the gifts of providence for personal virtues is an all-too-common category-mistake, and one that psychotherapies do little to rectify."

#17
Ideas/Tools for Recovery / Re: Resilience
March 25, 2019, 09:01:45 AM
brilliant - thanks
reminds me of needing to debunk the primacy of 'pushing boundaries' in cultural thinking
#18
I wasn't sure if I should put this here or in the resources area as I can see a fit with both ... here for now

a quick, to-the-point video by Irene Lyon (I think I came across her from someone else noting here) discussing the physiology of how traumatic stress disregulates the nervous system leading to chronic health conditions .... I appreciated both the brevity and how much it makes sense and thought others may find it useful too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0DSmN0bkPQ
#19
hi Hope  :wave:

Glad you've found them helpful  :thumbup:.
I'll watch part 3 tomorrow and might go back and take some notes from part 2.

tc
sj
#20
Sexual Abuse / Re: Leaving Neverland
March 10, 2019, 09:03:56 AM
I watched Leaving Neverland over the past 2 nights. I thought it was really well handled and provided a brilliant insight into grooming psychology, as well as a fascinating, heart-breaking insight into how one predator's behaviour can impact/ damage so many people.

Wade and James are so brave, as are their families.

Wade came from the city I grew up in and I can remember watching him, when I was still quite young, on news and TV shows from when he was 5, and my family used to go to the shopping complex where he won his first dance competition. That somehow made it feel more insidious and impacting for me - like he really was the boy next-door.

Also, definitely loads of very clear, descriptions of types of abuse, so loads of TWs and therefore not recommended for everyone. Agree that it was very painful viewing, at times. Glad I watched it, though, and like Kizzie, I feel hopeful that it is an indication of shifting understandings of and narratives around abuse/ grooming, predators and victims. It feels to me like a positive and constructive contribution to the larger discussion.

I just read this article by the film-maker, Dan Reed. So nice to see how he was able to change his own views un understandings by respectfully listening to Wade's and James' stories, rather than just sticking to his assumptions and opinions.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/10/dan-reed-shocked-those-wont-accept-michael-jackson-abuser

I'd be interested in seeing Lorenna Bobbitt's story.
#21
thanks for that, bluepalm
and hello Anjulie

I found the article I mentioned earlier, which may be of interest
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/nov/16/comfort-zone-mental-health
#22
hi bluepalm  :)

I really click with what you've written about, here.

Some time mid-late last year I saw an article by a woman discussing this topic (wondering/ hoping I archived it somewhere...??) - arguing that the whole trend of 'moving beyond your comfort zone' as good for growth is nonsense for a lot of people, and actually, she was arguing, it undermines growth. I was so excited to read that having been coming to that conclusion over the previous couple of years. For me it covers resting but also just sort of 'nesting' or 'cocooning' in my own space while allowing and validating many forms of aversion and resistance I would previously have pushed through, ignored, or even not consciously registered. That ignoring definitely had serious consequences for my physical health, and I'm finally understanding that it also undermines psychological health.

Would you mind providing the link to the thread you mentioned? I couldn't see it, but I'd be interested to read more on this topic.

cheers for the post  :thumbup:
#23
Wasn't sure where I should post this, so I am putting it here and in Resources section .....

I actually don't know much about Irene Lyons and have only read a couple of articles by her, so I am not here promoting her work because I know a lot about it .......

BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free

I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09

maybe it will e helpful for someone
#24
I actually don't know much about Irene Lyons and have only read a couple of articles by her, so I am not here promoting her work because I know a lot about it .......

BUT .... I just received this in my inbox and thought other people might want to sign up to check it out, especially seeing as it is free

I hope this link works:
https://irenelyon.com/healing-trauma-email/?inf_contact_key=4bc1aca60777232765bc64c6cec6921b7e470d92b8b75168d98a0b8cac0e9c09
#25

I live with Fibromyalgia and ME/CFS and they are very debilitating. I have been scary sick through a couple of periods (eg; thankfully able to still toilet and shower myself and make tea and toast with aid of a stool in the kitchen.... lifting kettle with 2 hands, struggling to lift fork to my mouth ... but requiring significant support from others for other living needs/tasks) and extremely grateful that I seem to be in a subcategory that has dipped quite low yet been able to experience degrees of improvement. Some people don't, and some people have died (2 that I know of, and is very rare, but still) and it is not taken seriously enough. Pushing beyond body limits can result in very grave deterioration of condition, which is NOT WORTH IT. Respecting limits and resting is fundamental to management and hope of possible recovery.

For the record, my view of these in context of CPTSD is that they are distinct conditions, but that CPTSD will increase your likelihood of developing these conditions when exposed to other known triggers and stressors (ME/CFS is very frequently reported as developing post some form of immune event/ disruption .... my favoured line of research is that which indicates significant mitochondrial dysfunction - problems in energy production in cells and communication/ transmission of energy between cells .... but I also feel that it is important to recognise the CNS/ neuro-immunological components). Also, however, I think it is important to note that becoming significantly sick is a traumatising experience in itself - it can then be part of re-traumatising for CPTSD on a number of fronts. For me CPTSD came first, then I developed Fibro around mid 20s (I feel it relates to the way pain signals are mediated goes haywire and into over-drive neurologically as a result of prolonged stress), then ME/CFS after significant immune system injury at 30 (felt like something significant finally just broke or gave-way, but definitely with it's own cluster of specific symptoms). I have also experienced serious depressive and anxiety and dissociative episodes, etc. I feel very clearly what different things are and the deep, profound, physical exhaustion and uncomfortable physical malaise of ME/CFS is NOT depression - the depression is more reactive because of very real difficulty and limitation resulting from the other horrible stuff. They may all be related and play into each other, yet they are still distinct conditions with their own symptom expressions.

The place where they overlap, imo, is that all 3 involve neurological disruption. I stress, that is just imo.

Most Drs still know little and I would recommend trying to find online support groups where you can contact local people who can recommend someone from their experience - that can be a really good start, and easier if you are in a relatively well populated area. There are some good resources, including Dr lists, via some of the major advocacy groups. I would definitely go in with some level of advice form somewhere (I'm sorry I can't look for you now... If I can I will have a look for some links another time), and also just have your radar on for how you feel with whether or not you are treated with respect and validation. Hopefully experience with CPTSD stuff will form some basis of discernment for this.

Learn about the symptoms lists and especially the very key ones such as Post Exertional Malaise (PEM) [NB; this speaks to the fact that exertion - from excercise, house-work, to reading and talking will all worsen the condition when done beyond the current limits of the person .... doing stuff makes one more sick] and Orthostatic Intolerance (OI) [like a desperate need to be horizontal or have feet up ... standing or walking for too long causes physical distress, pain, exhaustion, faintness, weakness) , which do not occur in depression or most other illnesses. (I think there was an official effort in Canada to rename and redefine the diagnostic criteria, with new name being - SEID, or Systemic Exertion Intolerance Disease. It hasn't taken off, but it at least speaks to PEM. I went from being moderately debilitated to seriously and scarily debilitated because I did not understand this factor and tried to push myself too much.

In the end the best Dr is one that has some experience of ME/CFS and Fibro, who recognises it is genuinely debilitating and is not dismissive or tries to tell you it is just depression and that you should exercise more (NB; this advice is very bad and can be seriously detrimental to a person with ME/CFS). There are no clear treatments other than rest and managing symptoms, so if someone gets too pushy with a set treatment I see that as a red-flag. If a Dr is respectful and supportive and wiling to listen to what you need and discuss options with you carefully and respectfully, then you are doing well, imo.

I have written this quite quickly and have ended up writing much more than I expected to, so sorry if it is very rambling or too intense. Not sure if/ when I'll have a chance to look for some good references. I hope this at least a little helpful to you. I also hope I haven't scared you too much, but perhaps just enough to realise to take your symptoms seriously and prioritise self-care, just in case you do have ME/CFS, which I'm not in a position to say.

Really sorry you are going through all this - it's utterly horrid stuff. Doesn't help that it's yet another area that is poorly understood or respected.

tc



#26
General Discussion / Re: Trying to get a proper diagnosis
February 28, 2019, 11:08:11 AM
thank you Kizzie  :thumbup:
#27
Recovery Journals / Re: sj's journal
January 15, 2019, 07:15:57 AM
TR and DB - thank you for the reassurance and encouragement  :)

it will be a relief to have the moving/ cleaning part is over with - i have been doing everything in managed stages, and (all going well) will be sleeping there tomorrow night ... then furniture from the op-shop will be delivered the following morning, so by Thursday it will start to more resemble a home. I'll try to get a TV for extra 'company' I think, especially if I don't have internet for a while. And I was able to confirm today that I'm allowed to start preparing some cleared garden beds behind my unit for veggies, so that was was good news. Just little nesting things that will keep me occupied for a while.  :)
#28
Therapy / Re: Paranoid verus hypervigilence
January 15, 2019, 04:34:09 AM
this is really interesting and a great issue to clarify and delineate, I think

for years I have just assumed I was prone to paranoia, not only because its been said to me at times (even in friendly way by friend or partner when I was freaking about something), but it was the only word that seemed to fit for a certain state of mind ... that said, I have experienced a few occasions where my panicked thinking spiralled to some pretty weird places .... but reading the distinctions in definition that Kizzie has posted, I think I have to even consider those carefully in terms of CPTSD and the hyper-vigillence and panic that grow from that, rather than an actual delusional state, like what Rainagain said

I do a lot of what you have described, malt2018, in that I go through checklists of things and self-talk to talk myself out assuming I've done something wrong, etc, but even more extreme and difficult to manage states are extensions of that and attempts to make sense and 'fix' things that seem to be not working
#29
Recovery Journals / Re: sj's journal
January 14, 2019, 11:50:24 AM
In a couple of days I'm moving to a new unit in a rural town after staying in a granny-flat in the region's major centre for 2 and half months. Even though I can't fit all my stuff here (not that I have much stuff with me - fits into a small hatchback, lol!  ;D), it has been a very safe and cozy sort of place which I've come to really like. It's a nice block and the land-lady has been a wonderful contact for me. I came here not knowing anyone, so it has been good to feel a bit connected and welcomed and invited to things, even if I often don't accept - she is very understanding.

She's been away on a number of short trips, too, so I've been tending to her lovely garden, picking fresh veggies and fruit, feeding her chooks and collecting the eggs, going for walks in the neighbourhood when I'm well enough. It has been such a nourishing, supportive interlude that now I am feeling quite sad and anxious about leaving, going to yet another place where I don't know anyone, and that maybe I'm making a mistake to move there. The land-lady wished I would stay and says that she's going to miss me, and she seems really genuine. It's funny how I feel both moved and scared of that. Some parts of me want to have more of that in my life, while others are terrified and avoidant of it. Anyway -  i think it is important for me to finally have my own space and be in control of that, not answering to anyone or living on other's terms. I'm so weary of not having that  :sadno:

The place I'm moving to is in a complex of 12 units and its for a more elderly demographic - even though I'm in my early-mid 40s, my health issues ticked enough boxes for the support organisation that owns and runs them to approve me. I've met a few of the gentlemen who live out there, all clearly 70s+. I've yet to meet any of the women, but I've only been out there a couple of times to ferry a few things out there and do some vacuuming and cleaning.

I've felt too overwhelmed with other things going on to organise internet (there have been a series of issues and hold-ups all out of my control so I'm going to be moving in about a month later than I was supposed to). I feel a bit anxious about not having internet access for an indeterminate period of time, too. But I'm also kind of thinking it might be good to have a bit of a break, listen to downloaded podcasts and audiobooks, read actual books, potter about cleaning and nesting, and start on a new knitting project. Take my time with internet and take pressure off myself.

I've had so much instability that I'm both dreading yet another upheaval while looking forward to my own space, thinking this may be the best opportunity I've had for a long time to experience some meaningful stability - certainly in my own space. I've had so many knock-downs and dislocations I feel scared to be too hopeful, but I still do feel some hope that this will be just what I need at this point in my life.
#30
Recovery Journals / Re: Wattlebirds journal
January 14, 2019, 11:09:14 AM
hello Wattlebird  :wave:

I don't know you, but just reading what you've described here about how your ex treated you makes me feel really relieved and happy for you that you have separated and that it has been pretty quick and relatively painless. It seems wonderful to have your life and living space free from that, though it certainly seems unsurprising you would feel off-balance with so much significant stuff going on.

The projects sound good  :) .... As does the mystery bin fairy - the idea and imagery of that makes me chuckle   ;D

rest well