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i just took that piper narcissistic abuse questionnaire, and i thought i was so much farther along than it shows.  and, it just tumbled me down into the basement, where i haven't been in awhile.  i suppose i just have to wait it out.

maybe my damage is even more than i suspect, maybe i've been fooling myself into thinking i've come a long way from where i was.   maybe it's because i'm in the middle of battling with my husband for the right to be me, just the way i am, for the right to be treated kindly when we're out in public.  he is usually kind when we're alone, asks me for favors, or if he wants something done, but as soon as we're out in public, or there's someone else around, he changes his voice tone and begins commanding me to do things.  it's really unsettling.  i don't see him as a narc, but he is from a different culture, and i live in his country.  still, i want to be treated in a kind and caring manner no matter where we are, who's around, and i'm battling for this, but, dang, it's wearing me down.

i'm wondering if this could have had anything to do with completing the piper abuse survey, if it could have affected how i answered, and then discovering that i have a lot more red areas than i expected.  i thought i was doing so well.  now i feel like i just got thrown in the toilet.  ugh!  was this a reality check?  a brick to the head?  or a temporary result of being in this battle at this time.  i just don't know.  any opinions are welcome.  i feel horrible right now.

honestly, i thought i was doing better.  got a 60, 5 red, 2 yellow.  wow, denial sure is a weird thing!  makes me want to cry, so sad this has happened to me.  i've been working so hard, and i'm still up to my neck in sh*t.  dang!

this thought just came to mind.  have been having communication problems with my hubby lately, and i'm feeling a bit more vulnerable than usual.  i wonder if that can be having an effect on how i scored.  yeah, feeling out of control, like i'm in a battle for my own being once again, something i can hardly remember not doing my entire life.  actually, maybe i have been battling for me since before i can remember.  it sure feels like it.

so, i guess i'll just have to keep on keepin' on.  right now it totally feels like an uphill battle - again!  ugh, i hate this stuff!

danaus,

it sounds like you've had some truly neg. experiences with therapists/counselors and such in the mental health domain.   i'm really sorry to hear that, but i can relate.  one of my narcs was a therapist, and i was involved with her for 8 yrs. in various capacities, including client, best friend, and employee.  she was my first contact with therapy, and i'd believed every word she'd told me.  i'm much wiser now, and, in fact, am a therapist myself.  one of the greatest gifts i got from her is how NOT to be a therapist!!!  : )

i do sincerely hope you have a therapist now who is sincere, caring, and ethical.  there is so much more to us than our meds, our diagnoses, and our dysfunctional ways of thinking.  we do so much that is on point, and i think we sometimes forget to give ourselves credit for that.  things like holding down a job, driving a car, problem-solving (i think bringing memory notes is a wonderful idea!), buying groceries, getting dressed - all the little things that we do to continue on with life in the best way we can.  and, best of all, thinking enough of ourselves to ask for help, to share ourselves with others, to respond to others in a caring way.  those are all magnificent qualities, and i think too often we take that kind of stuff for granted.  but, i do believe the best of us is what continues to fight for our right to have a good, healthy, happy life.  perseverance, determination, intelligence, courage - these are all qualities that we contain that keep us moving forward.  keep going!  i think you're doing just fine. 

therapy is so personal, but it is absolutely your time.  that's what you're paying for, to have time to vent, explore, problem-solve, realize, express emotions, all in the context of a safe place with a supportive person.  feeling guilty about taking that time for you is something that a lot of us go through, but, from personal experience, it gets easier with practice.  i hope you stay with it, sienna, hang tough, keep going.  these lapses of forward momentum (if that's what it feels like) are, i think, normal parts of the process.  we go back and forth, up and down, sometimes sideways, sometimes stuck. 

i'm on therapeutic hiatus for the summer.  it's just too hot here in my little desert town, so i probably won't be back to see my therapist until sometime in oct.  until then, i'm still doing my funerals (the other day, i held a funeral for the childhood i needed but didn't have.  i didn't have narc parents, but they just weren't able to give me what i needed - they simply didn't know, they gave me what they could in the way they could, but i needed something different.  so, i had a funeral, wrote all the things that came to mind about my childhood and what i had missed, especially emotionally.  it was a very emotional funeral, but i was able to release a lot of sadness, made some realizations, and was able to write about those as well.  it was very cleansing for me, and i'll keep doing these while on my hiatus.  they are therapeutic in their own right.

meanwhile, i'm also still working with my massage/pressure point lady to release the emotions in my body.  i've discovered that i've held a lot of fear inside because i just wasn't 'allowed' to feel afraid while dealing with my daughter, ex-husband, and that terrible therapist.  it was quite a shock to me, quite a revolutionary explosion of feeling.  and, of all places, i'd been holding it in my feet!  like, i'd pushed the fear down so far in order not to notice it or let it hinder me from what i'd had to do to try to make an impossible situation possible to live in.  so, progress continues, even if in unorthodox ways.

sienna, above all, may i suggest that you continue to be kind, gentle, and patient with yourself.  this is tough stuff.  it sounds like you are being able to differentiate between your narc's words of rejection and your therapist's words of time boundaries being reached.  two very different things, and i hope you give yourself credit for recognizing the difference.  small steps, perhaps, but important nonetheless.  you are not alone.  we're still here, both with you and for you.  hugs to you.

in my own recovery, i can vacillate among the three: i am a victim, i was victimized, i am a survivor.  my mindset and perception of these three venues depends on which part of recovery i'm working on at the time.  when i'm doing inner child work, i am a victim.  when i'm in the process of getting in touch with my emotions and releasing them appropriately, i was victimized.  and, as i continue to grow and evolve as a person, i am a survivor.

i think it's important for each individual to hold dear to what works at each particular stage of recovery, to hold it as long as it works for continuing progress, and to recognize when it's no longer beneficial, and either put it to the side, or let it go altogether.  recovery is such a personal and different process for each one of us, and it's only by being true to ourselves that we are able to feel caring and compassion for ourselves. 

as far as therapists go, there are a lot of unevolved therapists out there, and i feel bad for anyone who has run into one.  i, myself, had the horrible experience with my first therapist ever, and being with her for 8 yrs., of being a victim to her npd (with which i was certainly unfamiliar at the time), and the horrific consequences of that relationship.  however, it was while i was in the process of becoming a therapist myself that i was able to recognize what was going on, and untangle myself from the web she had woven and in which she had entrapped me.  and, one of the greatest things i learned from her is how not! to be a therapist.

but, may i reassure people, not all therapists are sitting behind their desks filling brains with the latest mish-mash of psycho-babble to come down the line.  there are many who are extremely caring and concerned about their clients, and really want only the best for them.  these are the ones who listen, validate, offer realistic feedback, and are knowledgeable guides to help you find your own right path on your journey to emotional health and well-being.

unfortunately, sometimes we need to seek out a therapist who will be a good fit with us.  and that might mean trying a few before we find the right one.  but, when that 'right' one is found, the help given is invaluable. 

so, victim, victimized, surviving, whatever works for you on your journey is what's important.  you don't have to allow yourself to continue being a victim, or to continue to be victimized.  once you realize what has happened to you, put the fault where it belongs, and begin being your own best friend, any words or labels to describe your experience need to come from you.  no one else has lived your life, has shared your experience, or is recovering in exactly the same way.  and, bless our differences and individuality.  as i once heard it said, i learn by listening, not by hearing myself speak.  and i do, indeed, learn from all of you.  thank you.

hi, sienna,

no need to apologize, never need to apologize.  we all have other things in our lives that need tending to.  and, if you don't show up at all, it could be for any number of reasons, and that wouldn't be a concern for me, either.  sh*t happens, as they say.  i would not take that personally.  it might be that it's just time for you to move on.  even if it's abruptly.

the reason you didn't think of a particular thing is because we can't think of everything!  none of us!  even tho i'm a therapist, i'm going to a therapist because i can't think of everything i need, i can't always help myself.  i've been able to think of a lot of things that help me, like my funerals, that my therapist may never have thought of, but she was the one who suggested that when i finish with my funerals, i tear them up and throw them away.  and, when she first said that, i burst into tears (which tells me that she really struck a nerve, and it was something that i needed to do).  it just seemed so final to me, and i wasn't quite ready to look at that.   4 weeks later, the idea of tearing up what i'd written about everyone and everything i've lost or needed to say good-bye to seems like a relief, like it'll finally be over, out of my life, and i can move on from it all.  i'm waiting until i have all my funerals finished before i do the tearing and tossing,  i want to do it in my therapist's office, and it'll feel like one giant purge.  it sounds good to me just writing about it!

i absolutely know that so much poison has been released already from my body through massage and the pressure points.  absolutely!  i've been working on the physical side of all this for at least 15 years, and, while any kind of healing touch has been helpful, and has moved me forward, it wasn't until this year that i was ready for the pressure point releases.  gallons of tears, so much stored emotion released - i could tell when it was sadness, when it was anger, i could feel the emotions themselves - so much physical pain went with it, too.  but, the stress and tension had been sitting within my muscles for around 30 years, just stored there, and it took a lot of strength for her to push on those points to release what had been stored within.  it was awful, very difficult, on one level, and i could only take about 15 min. of that kind of pain at a time.  but, i kept at it, put myself thru it because i somehow knew that the only way out was through.  and i'm now, finally, seeing incredible results.  but, this, too, has been a process, difficult and painful at times, but necessary.  and i'm really glad i've been doing it.  i haven't felt this healthy and strong physically in years.

as far as my anger goes, most of the time it's been the emotion beneath others.  it's been the hidden emotion for me, and was usually covered up by sadness.  being sad was very easy for me to feel, but being angry was not.  now i'm finally getting in touch with my anger, and my sadness is leaving me.  i'd cry at every sweet, kind, loving thing i'd see or hear about.  with my funerals, and my inner child work, i'm sorting thru that sadness, releasing the anger that's been trapped forever, and i'm not so weepy all the time.  and that feels great!

i'm quite sure my hubby is not a narc, just that he's learned over the years to misplace or displace his anger/frustration onto something/someone (like me, or his ex, when they were together because we were convenient and safer).  his dad did the same thing with his mom, so i don't doubt he learned to do it from that.  and my therapist  is being very careful to check in with me about any little incidents that might be happening with him.  so, she's staying on top of it, which i'm glad about.

so, my life is going really well.  i'm feeling a positive momentum, a shift of some sort in the past week, that was noticeable in a positive way for me.  dang, at last!

and, sienna, when you are ready, you'll make the moves you need to make.  sometimes we need to push ourselves, sometimes we need to let our selves push us.  but, it's your call to make.  i hope you're feeling like you're making progress, too.  that's our goal, isn't it?  to make progress through this jungle?  keep on keepin' on.  and, hang tough.  you'll find exactly the right amount of courage that you need at the time you need it.

hey, sienna,

two thoughts while i was reading your post.  one about hugs, the other, about, well, hugs.  but from different angles.

what if you asked your therapist,  as a roundabout way of getting the information without putting yourself in jeopardy of being refused, what she thinks of hugs?  just when there's a break in the conversation or something, you could say something about that you've heard from others that hugs are valuable, and what does she think?  you'd get an answer from her, and it might open the door to you being able to ask if she thought the two of you having a hug at the end of the session would be a good idea, or something that she'd be comfortable with.   that way, you're not putting yourself directly in the path of a 'no'/rejection, even if she doesn't go for it, but it might lead to you being able to get one at the end of the session after all.  just a thought.

the other thought, and i don't know where you live, or what kinds of resources are around you, but are there any support groups in your area you could become a part of?  most places have 12-step meetings of one kind or another, and co-dependents anonymous (CoDA) might be a good fit.  i've been to a lot of these types of groups, from alcohol, to family, to CoDA, to overeating, and they all basically work the same way.  most of them i've encountered are very warm and welcoming, people there are at different levels of recovery, and they end in hugs.  it could be a place for you to not to feel so alone, while getting some real support from real people.  often there's someone who greets people at the door, and that person is kind, caring, and welcoming, glad to see you, sincere and genuine.  all my experiences have been positive, even tho going the first time is always scary - to everyone!  so, you're not alone in that, either.  again, just a thought.

thanks to you for your support, sienna.  you seem to be a very kind, caring person, and i like that.

i got a lovely massage last night, and it felt great!  it's the first time in years that i was able to tolerate a full-body massage.  my body has been so whacked out that even the leg massage that comes with a pedicure used to reduce me to tears from the pain.  it's getting healed, tho, a little at a time.  yay!!!

my husband and i went for a couples' session yesterday, and after a lot of b.s. and posturing on his part (macho man syndrome, i think) he finally turned it all around at the end of the session and said he's be willing to see her and work on his anger issues.  big relief for me.  that's the fount of the disrespect - he'll get angry or frustrated with someone, and he'll turn that anger onto me.  so, hopefully that's going to get fixed.  another yay!

in the meantime, i keep having my funerals (i think i told you about them) and grieving my losses.  today my funeral, what i wrote about, was for all the anger at my narc ex that, for my own sanity and peace of mind and well-being, i have to let go.  i know that anger, and i've had plenty of it, pounded my bed many, many times, wrote volumes about it, the pictures, etc., has been going on for years.  but i believe i'm stuck like a gerbil in one of those treadmill things, and keep running the same thing thru my mind over and over, not getting anywhere, and really not doing myself any good any more.  so, i've got to get off that treadmill, or i won't be able to continue moving forward.  that's how i see it, at least.  i know you've been concerned about me stuffing my anger, but this feels more like mourning the death of it.  it's just not useful anymore, so i'm saying good-bye to it.  i've got other things to do with my life now, especially since i'm feeling better, and just ruminating on this crap doesn't allow me to do something productive. 

with that, i'll take my leave.  keep on keepin' on, sienna.  i think you're doing good.  again, for some reason, just the tone you're writing in is sounding stronger to me than a week ago. 

i do believe i've been as messed up physically as emotionally with all this.  although i feel for every single one of you who have posted about physical ailments, it really is good to know that, 1), i'm not the only one with this crap (sometimes literally!  lol!) going on, and 2), that i haven't been making this up, that this, is, indeed, a product of the chronic stress and psychological abuse that comes from narc abuse.  i believe i've had 4 npd relationships as an adult - 2 husbands, a therapist, and my oldest daughter.  one ex-hub is no longer a threat, and i even got an apology out of him!  but, the other 3, well, there's no telling which was worse or how.  they were coming at me at the same time from 3 different psychological places.  and, as my body began breaking down, i eventually realized that i was on my own.  (i've instigated no contact with all of them, and did report the therapist to our state board).

i've been working on healing my physical being for about 15 years.  so much of what i've read on this discussion speaks to me.  the allergies that came from out of nowhere.  the glaucoma.  ibs.  tension in the muscles, literally not being able to relax, not knowing how!  dancing legs syndrome that kept me from being able to sleep well for 20 years.  (i have been on meds to help me sleep for another 20 years.  without help, i'm not able to sleep).  respiratory problems (copd).  increased cholesterol and triglyceride levels.  constant fatigue - i also believe that i experience adrenal fatigue.  a compromised immune system.  and, an unhealthy inflammation response that triggers a lot of symptoms, such as allergies, joint pain, psoriasis, hair falling out, muscle weakness.  aaagh!!!

i've done so much research on the internet, learning about the results of prolonged, chronic stress, and all these illnesses are simply symptoms.  it was the stress of being part of those npd's lives that caused it, that is the main problem.  so, i've been working at not only reducing the stress (i ran away from home, moved to a different country - but, again, that brought it's own set of stressors, such as different language, culture, environment, etc.) but at getting my body back on track.  i'm pushing 70, so time is playing its own part in all this.  still, massage therapy has helped my physical body so much, but it's only been in the past few weeks that i could even stand 20 min. of being worked on!  in years past, even getting a leg massage with a pedicure sent me into tears of pain.  i went to a healer for a couple of months who believed in leg massage, and i cried and blubbered every week!  what it told me was that i had stored a lot of tears inside me, which is why i kept going back.  i did this for 10 weeks.  it was horrible, but i believe it was beneficial at the same time.

now i have  a massage therapist who uses pressure point massage, and that has released an awful lot of stored emotions that i'd been holding.  in the beginning, i cried thru the entire 15 or 20 min. that i could stand to let her work on me - the pain got to be unbearable!  it's been about 4 months of this, and it's finally getting better.  but, dang, it's quite the process to go through.  still, i knew it's what i needed for me - i had to go thru all that pain because i'd been holding onto it for so many years and it was making me sick.

i'm still working at this, but i'm seeing progress.  no more allergy meds.  the inflammation attacks (which i saw someone refer to as 'stress flu' because it feels like the symptoms just before getting the flu - watery, scratchy eyes, general malaise, my skin would get hot, and i would feel miserable) are fewer and farther between.  my muscles are feeling a bit looser in general and the knots are being broken up, i'm beginning to sleep a bit better (even with the meds, sleep was still not very good, not enough hours, not entirely restful).  i'm better able to recognize the signs (like swelling ankles) when i'm becoming too stressed, and know to take a break or slow down. 

what i've been doing, i'm not necessarily recommending anyone else do.  i think everyone has to find what works for them.  i've gotten pretty aggressive with attacking this whole thing.  i've just gotten so sick of being sick!!!  but, for everyone suffering because of c-ptsd, narc abuse, and all the rest, my heart is with you.  i hope you can find a process that works for you to help alleviate your pain, your ailments, your worries and concerns.  this is all personal, and what works for one will not necessarily work for another.  but, i want to thank you all for sharing your stories.  it's difficult to find a doc who will look at these illnesses as stress-related - they're usually about pushing pills at us, telling us to go home, and then we're back in a few months trying to deal with the side effects of the pills and we're feeling worse off! 

i've looked a lot into vitamin therapy, and am using that now, as well as eating better, stopped smoking and drinking.  i do believe that part of my job is to give my body the best possible foundation and accompanying help so that it can get on with the business of healing itself.  some things, like my glaucoma, well, that may be permanent.  i don't know.  much of the rest of it i have faith can be diminished to a manageable degree.  still working on it.  here's to the rest of you!  keep up the good work, don't lose faith, we can heal!

 

hey, sienna,

somehow it seems that you are sounding a bit stronger within yourself.  are you feeling that?  i hope so.  the reason it seems this way to me is because you are finding things that work for you, and are also finding the courage to share that - speaking out loud to yourself.  i don't at all think you're crazy for doing that.  this stuff works differently for everyone.  i'd never thought of that, but it makes sense to me, a lot of sense.  keep up the good work!  and, in my opinion, if it feels good and helps you make forward progress (and, of course, isn't hurting you or another) then go for it! 

when i spoke of dissociation with physical stuff, i was thinking of rape victims as an example.  i've talked to several people, who, when the sexual abuse was going on, they could feel themselves 'leave' their bodies, view what was going on from above or another part of the room, or just go completely numb.  it may have hurt physically, but it also hurt psychologically.  it was just that the entire event was overwhelming, and the person was not able to deal with it, not able to cope with the reality. 

i think if you want to explore some alternate methods of releasing your emotions (when you're ready, of course), it would be a good idea to talk to your therapist about that.  see what she says, if she thinks it's a good idea, if she thinks you're ready for it, etc.  sometimes a therapist will encourage a client to do something like that during a session.  that way the client is monitored and supported at the same time.  sometimes the therapist won't think it's a good idea at the time, and would want the client to wait for a later time, when there's a stronger sense of self and emotional stability.   these emotions have been trapped for a long time - to attempt to let them out at random is seldom a good idea, especially on your own.

disrespect from my partner - this has been an ongoing 'thing' between us for years.  part of it is a male-dominated cultural thing, part of it is what he learned by watching how his dad treated his mom, and his mom's acceptance of it.  i've just gotten to the point in my recovery where i'm tired of anything of that kind.  happily, he's agreed to couples counseling, and i have faith that all that stuff will get ironed out.

asking my therapist for a hug - i'm a hugger, have been for a long time.  i hug most everyone when i feel a good vibe.  as a therapist, i liked closing my sessions with a hug, if my client agreed (i always asked first).  i felt like it put a very warm closure to the session.  in this case, where my therapist is not a hugger, i, as a client, asked her, and she, believing that it's something positive for me (or i wouldn't have asked) agreed.  she still doesn't offer, but when i feel like a hug would feel good to me, would feel like a good way to close a session, i ask, and she is now more at ease with it.

i don't think there's anything wrong with asking for a hug from your therapist.  and, depending on your reaction, if it brings up something negative, that would certainly be something to talk about in your next session.  you would be able to explore those feelings, get to the bottom of why something neg. happened after a hug.  again, it's what you feel comfortable with. 

personally, i don't remember a lot of 'safe' or gentle touch while i was growing up, and it's something that i want on a regular basis.  many of my friends are in recovery of one kind or another, so hugging is pretty automatic among us.  i've read about how 'good' touch helps our bodies give off pos. enzymes or neurotransmitters or something (i'm not sure exactly) and that it's important for our physical and mental well-being.  when i'd hug my daughters, i'd say 'skin health!', and we'd hug and smile/laugh.  it was a really good thing for all of us.  so, again, what you feel comfortable with is what is important. 

i just told my husband today that i believe i'm feeling better, in a general sense of the word.  i've had a busy week, and, in the past, it would've kicked my butt!  but, i'm hanging in, this week, and that feels good.  so, it seems like everything is working as it should, progress is being made.  yay!  i wish that for you as well.  it's a good, good, good feeling!

keep taking care of you, sienna.  i'm doing the same.  i'm convinced it's possible to eventually put this behind us. 

so glad to hear your last session went well.  maybe you both are settling in, getting to know each other a bit more, and the fit is becoming more comfortable.  i sure do hope so.  i'm feeling fine after my last session.  she's learning more about me, what kind of person i am, and helping with our couple issues.  those aren't real big, usually, but have gotten to the point where i wasn't going to put up with any kind of disrespect any more.  that, to me, is also a form of abuse. 

as to helping me with the trauma part, happily i've got my therapeutic experience behind me, and i love doing research, so i've looked up how it is recommended treatment for this goes, and am kind of guiding her, at the same time i look to her for guidance with what i'm doing.  she's sort of a therapeutic back-up for me, very supportive, has been very good at listening to me, and is becoming more interactive, which i like in therapy.  all in all, it's going well, and i feel good when the session ends.

dissociation, to my mind, means that your conscious mind is not able to deal with the reality of your situation, whether it be what's going on physically or psychologically.  when the reality is overwhelming, some people freeze, go numb, or some people dissociate, just go somewhere else in their mind.  anyway, that's how i've always looked at it.

and, when i was doing these pictures, 2 of my friends who are also in the therapeutic field were concerned for me because of the power and impact imminent in what i was doing.  because of my own experience therapeutically, both personally and professionally,  i was able to do the picture thing at a slow enough pace where i didn't get overwhelmed.  but, that's me.  for anyone else, i believe it is safest to work on something like that with their therapist.  i live in a small mexican town, and there was no therapist available at the time, and i wanted to keep moving forward, and this method came to mind so i decided to give it a shot.  i was in contact with both my friends and my very supportive husband through the entire process - they were my safeguards - and i was ready to stop at any point where i felt it was going to be too much.  i also took a lot of breaks from working on this so as not to get overwhelmed.

i still do take a lot of breaks.  since i'm coming at this from so many directions, it can get to be a bit much at times, and i just need time to regroup, relax, and recuperate from the psychological onslaught.   i thank my experience for having a pretty good grip on what i can deal with, and the signals that i need to stop and take a breather.

as far as taking care of yourself during those emotional flashbacks, all i can say is that it gets easier over time.  as they become less intense and happen less often, your natural instinct to do what's best for you will overshadow those 'i don't care about me or my self'  thoughts.  time, patience with yourself,  and the knowledge that this, too, shall pass, have all helped me to weather those flashbacks until i can get back on a more even keel.

and, it sounds like you found writing to be helpful to you in making connections and realizations!  yay!  that's what it does for me.  i encourage you to keep it up.  i do journaling on a regular basis - sometimes it's general stuff, sometimes it's more specific, but all of it is helpful for me to see things more clearly.  looks like you just learned one more way to help yourself take care of yourself, not only in a general way, but also during those ef's.  keep going!  you're learning, and i think that's always a positive thing, something helpful that we can build on in a self-caring, self-nurturing way.

and, yeah, giving myself hugs feels really good.  i've even taught my therapist to give me hugs after the sessions.  it was unheard of to her before.  we live and learn, don't we.  keep up the good work. 

hey, sienna,

hope your day is going well.  my session w/ my therapist was kind of trippy.  she's young, not really versed in trauma therapy, not familiar at all w/ c-ptsd, and she's mexican, here in mexico.  we're doing some work on my being married to a mexican man, cultural differences and such, and she's also getting enlightened on what kind of woman i am, and how the culture i was raised in, very sheltered, not knowing much of the world, male-dominated, lower-middle class was very much like the culture of my husband.  she was very surprised that all americans aren't as portrayed in the media, or who come here w/ their big houses and cars and gated communities.  she'll be able to write a book when we're done.   lol!

anyway, back to your questions.  looking back, i believe i put those pictures up in order to not only get myself out of denial about what kinds of people they were (this was before i knew the term npd), but also how really nasty, hurtful, and harmful they were to me. and, yes, looking at these pictures helped me stop making excuses for them, thus freeing up my anger.  ***i don't recommend anyone do this without their therapist.  and, sienna, you mentioned disassociation, which is a big red flag for doing this stuff on your own.  please, don't do it without therapeutic help.  this stuff works differently for everyone, at different levels, and in different ways.  ***

my inner child work has involved the visual, tactile, written, and spoken images and words.  i just came at it from every angle i could think of, whatever i felt had been missing from my parents that i needed as a child.  like, i started giving myself hugs every day.  that sort of thing.

yes, absolutely, i have help.  i have my therapist, and a massage therapist who specializes in pressure point therapy to release emotions, etc., that have been stored in my body.  i also have this forum, caring husband, and friends who listen to me.  i want to cover this from every direction i can.

well, sienna, i hope you are able to continue to move forward.  sometimes it's baby steps, sometimes a small leap here and there, sometimes even a step backward.  but, i think that the more we learn and understand, the cycles continue moving with more clarity and ease, and less backlash.  it's a process.  keep being patient with yourself, be kind to yourself, and treat yourself well.  i'm doing the same, thank you.  asking those questions of me was a level of validation, which i appreciate.  thank you for that, too.  and i hope any problems you've had with your therapist are getting ironed out, you're feeling more comfortable, and more able to trust your gut.  i think you're doing a really good job.

off to see my therapist now.  will answer your questions at a later time, not sure if today or tomorrow.  just wanted to let you know that you are not walking thru this storm alone!

there has been a long period of time in my life when i was numb about anger.  i didn't feel it, but felt sad instead.  i think anger was something neg. that i was taught not to show, so i transformed it into a more acceptable feeling.  i learned along the way that anger is just another emotion, is natural, and needs to be expressed, released, let out.  as my therapist told me, just don't hurt yourself or anyone else. 

there were 4 major people in my life who, i believe, are narcs - 2 husbands, my oldest daughter, and a therapist - and who harmed me, wounded me emotionally.  probably, about 2 years ago, i began getting in real touch with my anger, and i decided to draw the way my mind's eye saw these people.  whew!  i'm no artist, but i drew what they represented to me, how i saw them in my llfe.  the husbands had two faces (kind of like a picasso drawing!), each in an opposite direction, scary eyes, and lots of words of betrayal around them.  the therapist took on the aspect of a snake, with a forked tongue to represent the words she used with me to be manipulated and abused by her, and i wrote lots of words on that drawing as well.  my daughter took on the aspect of a vampire, large fangs with drops of blood dripping from them (she'd been sucking my blood for many years, in a manner of speaking), and lots of words for her, too.  (i am a word person, so putting words on those pictures was important to me).  i made copies of these pictures, about 10 each, and hung them around my workplace at home, just surrounded myself with representations of what i had been living with, attempting to survive under.  it took a few weeks of working in this atmosphere, constantly reminding myself of what these people had done to me, until i finally had enough.  one day, i took the picture of one of them down, took a nail file, put the picture on my bed (i use my bed for a lot of anger work!) and began stabbing and shouting.  what i believe i was doing with all that was admitting and accepting the power i had given these people, and by killing the pictures of them that i had drawn, i was killing that power, and taking my own back.  i didn't do them all in one day - it's pretty exhausting work!  and, it probably isn't for everyone.  but, it helped me a lot, not only to get in touch with that frozen anger i'd been holding inside, but to finally release it in a safe, non-harmful way.  it took several months for me to finish them all off, take down the pictures, tear them into pieces, and walk that whole bunch of garbage out of my house to the trash.  i had done this on my own because i didn't have a therapist at the time, so i'm not necessarily recommending that anyone else do this without therapeutic help.

after all this time, i'm discovering more layers of anger, and it's getting easier, and quicker, to get rid of it.  the cycles.  i still have a problem feeling angry at the time, but am working on that, too.   someone in this forum suggested i do inner child work, which i'm in the process of now.  i have learned that c-ptsd demands a multi-modal attack because it's, well, complex, not straightforward.  so, i'm coming at it from as many angles as i can.

i'm not suggesting this is something you must do, i'm just sharing an example of what has helped me.  i think different things are more useful to some people than to others, and, also, are helpful at different times and places on our healing journeys.  and we all must find what works best for us.

thanks for your support, sienna.  it is truly appreciated.  when i get stumped, i do post a question or problem and ask for help, advice, and/or suggestions.  this place has helped me a lot, especially in not feeling like i'm all alone or on my own.  and i'm so grateful you and everyone else is here for each other.  it's great!

i was absolutely not invalidating you in any way.  i've been there, been shushed, told not to dwell in the past, a million different ways of telling me that what i'm thinking or feeling just needs to be 'fixed' or 'forgotten'.  no, i struggled with thoughts of revenge, retribution, and justice for months, and it was driving me crazy.  i tried all kinds of things to diminish these thoughts and feelings, and could make some progress, but they kept intruding.  what i was saying was that i had the experience of having a flash of a thought about others who have had to go through situations and experiences (i just used rape victims as an example) where they haven't been able to have a feeling of justice or closure, and it suddenly occurred to me, and i'm only talking about me, personally, that there have been many people who have found a way to move on with their lives in spite of their inability to see justice done.  it was a very inspiring thought to me.  when this thought came to my mind, it created a transformation within me, and the negativity basically disappeared.  i didn't need to push it aside, it just wasn't there anymore, not to the crazy-making extent it had been.

that's not to say that those thoughts don't occasionally pop up every now and then, because they do.  but, within the idea of the cycles, they don't stay as long, they're not as venomous, and i'm able to accept more readily that things are the way they are, and i can't fix them to be the way i'd like them to be.  but, it was a moment of some sort of clarity for me that came out of nowhere, maybe of a spiritual nature, i don't really know.  at any rate, i'm just more at peace with what is than i had been.

and, thanks for your concern about me stuffing feelings.  i don't believe that's the case, because i'm still angry at times that it isn't different.  but, for some reason, it isn't as strong, and it doesn't last for as long.  and, i continue to write in a journal, and that helps me to be as honest as possible about myself, cause those feelings will come out when i write.  and, when they do, i go do something physical with them, like pound on my bed and yell obscenities!  maybe that doesn't work for everyone, but it helps me.  : )

so, sienna, i'm sorry if it came across in any way that i might be invalidating your feelings or thoughts about your situation. or trying to suggest that you should be able to cope differently than you already are.  i know that a lot of times the hurt and pain and suffering on a psychological level are much worse than what we might feel physically.  and, no, you didn't trigger me at all.  i'm just so glad that you are able to write it all out in this place, in a place where we really do care, where we can relate to your pain, the suffering, the struggle, the challenge of getting past such horrific wounding by another - maybe more than one.  that's why this is complex.  there are so many levels, each as valid as the next.   you are where you are in your process, and that's to be honored for what it is, and doesn't need to be compared to the process of anyone else.  i think you're doing a great job of using this forum for venting, for being vulnerable, for asking for help.  that takes real courage.  i will just say that i encourage you to keep coming back.  we're here for you. 

i do believe that our own healing is not what hurts others, but the fact that we were wounded by someone else, and it's on that person, the one who wounded us, that has caused the pain in those close to us.  you didn't do it, that other person did, that other person caused the pain in you which caused the pain in others. nope, it's not on you.

being a strength and protector for others in my life, i can relate to having to switch that role and allow someone else to be strong and protecting of me.  i don't think it's an easy transition to make, but someone once told me that by allowing it, i'm giving a gift to those around me by giving them a chance to do something wonderful for me for a change.  and, that i shouldn't deprive them of that opportunity.  that stuck in my head and made the transition a wee bit easier for me.  i've got more balance in the giving and taking dept. now, thanks to that.  i'm more able to take the care and support from others that i'd always been the one to give.   give yourself a chance, some patience, and the kindness that you so deserve, just as much as anyone else.  it'll get there.  just some thoughts.