Messages

radical, so glad you took the chance and wrote about what you're going through.  i think too many times we've been told that when we focus on ourselves, on what we want or need, we've been told that we're being selfish.  i've changed that to self-care.  i know i wasn't allowed to be selfish, to have anything for me, and i had to share everything i had, which included my knowledge, my time, my energy - everything!  but, i know now that sharing my own pain, my own experience, or, conversely, keeping my time, energy, knowledge for myself is self-ish, as in self-caring. 

you took a leap of faith, and i applaud you for it.  and, while you want to shut it down, you said you're going to push through.  good for you.  as i say to my dear friend who is also going through this crap, hang tough, baby!  i'm hanging right beside you!

here's a story i heard that i've found helpful during these times.  it's called 'the lion or the roar'.  it goes like this:   in the wild, lions hunt in packs.  the male goes to one side, the female goes to the other.  as a herd of animals begins coming toward them, the male, who has the biggest, most fearsome voice, begins roaring.  the animals become scared of this noise, and run away from it.  well, unfortunately, they run in the direction of the female, who is the true hunter and killer.  they run away from the noise which sounds dangerous directly into the real danger.

i've used this story many times when deciding what to do in my life.  between the choices i have, which is the lion, and which is the roar?  which is the real danger, and which is just a big noise?  you have chosen, by talking about yourself, airing your issues, seeking help and support, to stay away from the real danger of not speaking up.  you have walked toward the noise, which can't hurt you, but, ultimately, can help you.  kudos to you.

really sorry you had to experience that, especially in a support group, where we tend to let our guard down a bit thinking it's a safe place.  it's supposed to be a safe place, a person is supposed to be able to be vulnerable, to be heard and listened to, and to be supported.  i guess the truth is, we have to feel a group out for a while to see if it actually is a safe place.  i know of groups that were quite disrespectful, quite uninterested, quite unsupportive, and i know of others where i could say anything and was simply listened to (most were 12-step groups), but i yearned for supportive feedback in those, and that wasn't there, either.

at any rate, to turn the tables on you, telling you to look after the person you had just disconnected from because of self-care, is just not right.  and, for the moderator to not have your back in such an instance seems wrong as well.  this is like any invisible illness - often it is only others who have experienced it who know the devastation that emotional abuse can produce, the ramifications that are so far reaching into so many corners of our lives, and the levels it infiltrates.  as a recovering alcoholic/drug addict, getting off and staying off substances was a piece of cake compared to what i'm finding in my experience with c-ptsd. 

my dear friend is also recovering from c-ptsd, and we are so grateful to have one another on this journey.  unfortunately, we live in different countries, so email is basically the only way we can communicate, and sometimes that's even too much energy.  but, i'm also grateful to have found this forum.  the support and validation here have been healing beyond measure.  i'm glad you're here, too, flutterbye, and sincerely hope that you have no more dreadful experiences like the one you wrote about.  it's hard enough to make our way through this tangled web without someone adding to the mess.  keep taking care of yourself no matter what anyone says!

threeroses and radical, all i can say is thank you (i'm typing through my tears right now out of gratitude for what you both said).  i'm nearing 70, still going through this crap at the point in my life when i should be happily retired and enjoying my 'golden years'.  i thank god every day that i've been able to live long enough to get all these pieces of the picture together, to understand why i couldn't move forward out of what was increasingly an insane situation.  and, although i hate the thought that others are going through heart-wrenching situations because of what has happened to them in their past, i'm also glad that so many of them are younger than me, and have a chance to untangle themselves from all the horrors they've been through, and have a happy rest of their life. 

threeroses, you're absolutely correct when you say that this stuff is not easily definable, does not fit into a 'one-size-fits-all' box, not for the dysfunctions nor for the victims and their recovery.  all of what everyone on this forum has gone through has its own little twists and turns, hidden valleys, shadowy corners.  my family and i looked perfectly normal to the outside world - in fact, we were held up as examples of how others wanted to be!  it's so very true that one never knows what goes on behind closed doors.  and we, ourselves, were very protective of each other, helping to hide the horrors within.  my oldest daughter, the narc, was also mentally ill from a very young age, had dozens of diagnoses, and i felt it was my duty to put up with her abuse because she was 'sick'.  my younger daughter felt the same way as she got older, and they had their own, adult, relationship going on.  i wasn't believed or supported by my younger daughter or their dad re: the abuse i was put through by the eldest.  and, of course, neither girl knew what was happening between their dad and me.  happily, my younger d. is now my ally, has also gone nc with her sister, altho she still retains a relationship w/ her dad, but she has reassured me that she heard what i had to say about him, and has taken precautions.  still, it makes my skin crawl when i know she's visited him.  it's the mom in me.

radical, i can only say i can understand how awful it must've been for you w/ that 'therapist' - and how right you were for putting the word therapist in quotation marks!  those people give therapy such a bad name, and the damage they do is horrific.  i ended up on meds for anxiety and depression after my bout w/ my 'therapist', and was emotionally and psychologically battling the after-effects for many years.  unfortunately, when i did the reporting, their ethics rules of not having dual relationships w/ clients had not yet gone into effect (my experience happened 2 yrs. prior), but they did send someone to investigate, so she knew she had been reported, and wrote back to me that, although they could not do anything in the way of sanctions, she was very definitely in the wrong.  at least i got a form of validation for that, which helped me a lot.

so, thank you both, again, for your kindness, caring, and support.  it is truly appreciated, and has been taken into my heart.  another piece of the healing has been put in place.  big hug to you both.

have you done any research on it?  i'm not familiar with it, but when i get a new med where my knowledge base is limited, i'll look on the internet, see what i can find.  good luck with it.  i hope it helps and doesn't hinder. 

just felt like sharing that being married to a misogynistic sex addict took its toll in ways that other addictions didn't.    my very first therapist, although a woman, was also a misogynistic sex addict.  i was involved with both these people at the same time.  during our nearly 20-yr. marriage, we found her and began seeing her for group, individual, and couples counseling.  this combination in my life (i was involved with her on several levels - best friend, client, employee - for 8 yrs.) nearly literally killed me, both physically and emotionally.  he was what is known as an 'intellectual' misogynist, and his sexual addiction took the form of continual masturbation to porn movies.  he wouldn't cheat on me with real women, only 2-dimensional women, but it was nearly a nightly thing.  i found out about it about 10 yrs. into our marriage, he began going to SA meetings once a week, but as soon as i moved out, he stopped going to meetings.  we'd still see each other, communicate regularly after the marriage dissolved, and when i confronted him on this, he told me 'after you left, i thought - what's the point?

well, as i later came to learn, the point was that his addiction went unchecked, and about 3 yrs. ago, i found out from one of my daughters that he was lusting after the two of them, saying inappropriate sexual things to and about them in other peoples' presence.  i had the terribly difficult job of telling my other daughter what was going on, and nearly devastated her with the information.  when i confronted him about it, he denied there was anything wrong, that the 2 things i personally knew about (the first one was when my oldest daughter was 7, and he made inappropriate sexual sounds about her bare legs.  we were seeing that therapist at the time, who said nothing more than 'that's inappropriate' to him.  now that i have been a therapist, the fact that she did no follow up with him on that, no exploration, no further consideration at all for such behavior toward his daughter triggered me something terrible when i thought back to that time.)  meant nothing untoward (2 things in 25 years?  that's bullsh*t! were his words) to be concerned about. 

when i went back to school to become a therapist was when i realized that the therapist we'd been seeing was completely unethical.  that being my first experience with the entire therapy situation, i trusted her and believed everything she said, even when others around me told me that she hated women and was a control freak.  it took me 8 yrs. of mentally and emotionally untangling myself (after i'd broken all my relationships with her) before i was able to go through the process of reporting her to our state board for disciplinary measures.  during the time i worked for/with her, i knew about several sexual escapades in on-the-job locations that she engaged in, and how she took care of one of her former lovers before taking care of a client who had been hurt during a therapeutic exercise.  part of the fallout for me was because of my association with her - i heard some nasty stuff directed at me for working with her.

misogyny may not be an addiction, but, being a woman, it is a horrific experience to go through all on its own.  couple that with sexual addiction, and i am surprised that i am alive today.  truly surprised.  i got out just in time.  it's only been in the past 3 yrs. or so that i learned the extent of the spillover onto my daughters by my ex-hub, and the * began all over again. 

i have finally achieved no contact with my ex narc, and this past jan. was the first anniversary of that (which also included nc with my oldest daughter, also a narc.  both of them together had actually double-teamed me for about 30 yrs.)  the anniversary turned out to be a trigger for a humungous e.f., and i'm still working my way out of it. 

i shared this because i noticed that most of the addiction information listed was about substance abuse, or acoa groups, and i wanted people to know that other addictions can also devastate our worlds in ways not always covered by substance abuse info.  not only was my self-esteem hit, but my very essence as a woman, a sexual partner, and a wife.  and then, with what was going on with my daughters, my sense of being a mom, meant to protect her children from harm,  was also called into question.  i didn't protect them because i couldn't, and i couldn't because i didn't know.  besides, i was also trying to hold my family together in the midst of being abused from 3 sides.  it was overwhelming.  i had 3 breakdowns in 4 yrs. before i fled.

my one word of advice is to trust your gut.  i had suspicions that something was going on, i asked questions, but i believed the answers even when things weren't sitting right.  during the course of my ex attending SA meetings, he had a 'slip'.  we talked about it, and i said 'never again, or you're gone'.  looking back, i can see that was a test that i failed.  this stuff is so insidious, so cunning, so keen, and these people are so good at covering up the truth, deceiving, lying, and peeling your skin away (metaphorically) so slowly and artfully that you don't know you've been harmed until you're raw and have no resources left.  trust your gut.  if it feels wrong, it probably is.  even his recent therapist (a woman), when he told her that i said he was a misogynist, told him that's ridiculous, that after working with him for over a year, she would have known.  he then told me 'i'm a very good liar'.

if you have suspicions of other types of addictions, i'd suggest that you research the signs and symptoms.  the earlier you can get out, the better.  moving forward . . .

congrats!  great progress!

i am an emdr therapist, and i know how helpful that can be for trauma work, and i'm so glad you found that and have been able to use it.  there are none here where i live, but i've been doing some modified form of it on myself for awhile.  i, too, believe that this stuff needs a multi-modal approach.  keep going!  that just sounds so wonderful to me.  you're an inspiration, movementforthebetter.   

thanks, movementforthebetter!  that was very validating and comforting to hear, and i really appreciate it.  i am feeling better today, after more discussion with hubby.  plus, i showed him the list of emotional abuse, and he was quite blown away.  there's really so much here for both of us to digest in our relationship.  i've been familiar with some of this for a much longer time than he has.   at least, he is looking at what i give him, and he is working on it.  i'm awfully grateful for that.  so, yes, little by little, step by step.  even if some of those steps are backward!   the support here is invaluable.  again, thanks.

i just took that piper narcissistic abuse questionnaire, and i thought i was so much farther along than it shows.  and, it just tumbled me down into the basement, where i haven't been in awhile.  i suppose i just have to wait it out.

maybe my damage is even more than i suspect, maybe i've been fooling myself into thinking i've come a long way from where i was.   maybe it's because i'm in the middle of battling with my husband for the right to be me, just the way i am, for the right to be treated kindly when we're out in public.  he is usually kind when we're alone, asks me for favors, or if he wants something done, but as soon as we're out in public, or there's someone else around, he changes his voice tone and begins commanding me to do things.  it's really unsettling.  i don't see him as a narc, but he is from a different culture, and i live in his country.  still, i want to be treated in a kind and caring manner no matter where we are, who's around, and i'm battling for this, but, dang, it's wearing me down.

i'm wondering if this could have had anything to do with completing the piper abuse survey, if it could have affected how i answered, and then discovering that i have a lot more red areas than i expected.  i thought i was doing so well.  now i feel like i just got thrown in the toilet.  ugh!  was this a reality check?  a brick to the head?  or a temporary result of being in this battle at this time.  i just don't know.  any opinions are welcome.  i feel horrible right now.

honestly, i thought i was doing better.  got a 60, 5 red, 2 yellow.  wow, denial sure is a weird thing!  makes me want to cry, so sad this has happened to me.  i've been working so hard, and i'm still up to my neck in sh*t.  dang!

this thought just came to mind.  have been having communication problems with my hubby lately, and i'm feeling a bit more vulnerable than usual.  i wonder if that can be having an effect on how i scored.  yeah, feeling out of control, like i'm in a battle for my own being once again, something i can hardly remember not doing my entire life.  actually, maybe i have been battling for me since before i can remember.  it sure feels like it.

so, i guess i'll just have to keep on keepin' on.  right now it totally feels like an uphill battle - again!  ugh, i hate this stuff!

danaus,

it sounds like you've had some truly neg. experiences with therapists/counselors and such in the mental health domain.   i'm really sorry to hear that, but i can relate.  one of my narcs was a therapist, and i was involved with her for 8 yrs. in various capacities, including client, best friend, and employee.  she was my first contact with therapy, and i'd believed every word she'd told me.  i'm much wiser now, and, in fact, am a therapist myself.  one of the greatest gifts i got from her is how NOT to be a therapist!!!  : )

i do sincerely hope you have a therapist now who is sincere, caring, and ethical.  there is so much more to us than our meds, our diagnoses, and our dysfunctional ways of thinking.  we do so much that is on point, and i think we sometimes forget to give ourselves credit for that.  things like holding down a job, driving a car, problem-solving (i think bringing memory notes is a wonderful idea!), buying groceries, getting dressed - all the little things that we do to continue on with life in the best way we can.  and, best of all, thinking enough of ourselves to ask for help, to share ourselves with others, to respond to others in a caring way.  those are all magnificent qualities, and i think too often we take that kind of stuff for granted.  but, i do believe the best of us is what continues to fight for our right to have a good, healthy, happy life.  perseverance, determination, intelligence, courage - these are all qualities that we contain that keep us moving forward.  keep going!  i think you're doing just fine. 

therapy is so personal, but it is absolutely your time.  that's what you're paying for, to have time to vent, explore, problem-solve, realize, express emotions, all in the context of a safe place with a supportive person.  feeling guilty about taking that time for you is something that a lot of us go through, but, from personal experience, it gets easier with practice.  i hope you stay with it, sienna, hang tough, keep going.  these lapses of forward momentum (if that's what it feels like) are, i think, normal parts of the process.  we go back and forth, up and down, sometimes sideways, sometimes stuck. 

i'm on therapeutic hiatus for the summer.  it's just too hot here in my little desert town, so i probably won't be back to see my therapist until sometime in oct.  until then, i'm still doing my funerals (the other day, i held a funeral for the childhood i needed but didn't have.  i didn't have narc parents, but they just weren't able to give me what i needed - they simply didn't know, they gave me what they could in the way they could, but i needed something different.  so, i had a funeral, wrote all the things that came to mind about my childhood and what i had missed, especially emotionally.  it was a very emotional funeral, but i was able to release a lot of sadness, made some realizations, and was able to write about those as well.  it was very cleansing for me, and i'll keep doing these while on my hiatus.  they are therapeutic in their own right.

meanwhile, i'm also still working with my massage/pressure point lady to release the emotions in my body.  i've discovered that i've held a lot of fear inside because i just wasn't 'allowed' to feel afraid while dealing with my daughter, ex-husband, and that terrible therapist.  it was quite a shock to me, quite a revolutionary explosion of feeling.  and, of all places, i'd been holding it in my feet!  like, i'd pushed the fear down so far in order not to notice it or let it hinder me from what i'd had to do to try to make an impossible situation possible to live in.  so, progress continues, even if in unorthodox ways.

sienna, above all, may i suggest that you continue to be kind, gentle, and patient with yourself.  this is tough stuff.  it sounds like you are being able to differentiate between your narc's words of rejection and your therapist's words of time boundaries being reached.  two very different things, and i hope you give yourself credit for recognizing the difference.  small steps, perhaps, but important nonetheless.  you are not alone.  we're still here, both with you and for you.  hugs to you.

in my own recovery, i can vacillate among the three: i am a victim, i was victimized, i am a survivor.  my mindset and perception of these three venues depends on which part of recovery i'm working on at the time.  when i'm doing inner child work, i am a victim.  when i'm in the process of getting in touch with my emotions and releasing them appropriately, i was victimized.  and, as i continue to grow and evolve as a person, i am a survivor.

i think it's important for each individual to hold dear to what works at each particular stage of recovery, to hold it as long as it works for continuing progress, and to recognize when it's no longer beneficial, and either put it to the side, or let it go altogether.  recovery is such a personal and different process for each one of us, and it's only by being true to ourselves that we are able to feel caring and compassion for ourselves. 

as far as therapists go, there are a lot of unevolved therapists out there, and i feel bad for anyone who has run into one.  i, myself, had the horrible experience with my first therapist ever, and being with her for 8 yrs., of being a victim to her npd (with which i was certainly unfamiliar at the time), and the horrific consequences of that relationship.  however, it was while i was in the process of becoming a therapist myself that i was able to recognize what was going on, and untangle myself from the web she had woven and in which she had entrapped me.  and, one of the greatest things i learned from her is how not! to be a therapist.

but, may i reassure people, not all therapists are sitting behind their desks filling brains with the latest mish-mash of psycho-babble to come down the line.  there are many who are extremely caring and concerned about their clients, and really want only the best for them.  these are the ones who listen, validate, offer realistic feedback, and are knowledgeable guides to help you find your own right path on your journey to emotional health and well-being.

unfortunately, sometimes we need to seek out a therapist who will be a good fit with us.  and that might mean trying a few before we find the right one.  but, when that 'right' one is found, the help given is invaluable. 

so, victim, victimized, surviving, whatever works for you on your journey is what's important.  you don't have to allow yourself to continue being a victim, or to continue to be victimized.  once you realize what has happened to you, put the fault where it belongs, and begin being your own best friend, any words or labels to describe your experience need to come from you.  no one else has lived your life, has shared your experience, or is recovering in exactly the same way.  and, bless our differences and individuality.  as i once heard it said, i learn by listening, not by hearing myself speak.  and i do, indeed, learn from all of you.  thank you.

hi, sienna,

no need to apologize, never need to apologize.  we all have other things in our lives that need tending to.  and, if you don't show up at all, it could be for any number of reasons, and that wouldn't be a concern for me, either.  sh*t happens, as they say.  i would not take that personally.  it might be that it's just time for you to move on.  even if it's abruptly.

the reason you didn't think of a particular thing is because we can't think of everything!  none of us!  even tho i'm a therapist, i'm going to a therapist because i can't think of everything i need, i can't always help myself.  i've been able to think of a lot of things that help me, like my funerals, that my therapist may never have thought of, but she was the one who suggested that when i finish with my funerals, i tear them up and throw them away.  and, when she first said that, i burst into tears (which tells me that she really struck a nerve, and it was something that i needed to do).  it just seemed so final to me, and i wasn't quite ready to look at that.   4 weeks later, the idea of tearing up what i'd written about everyone and everything i've lost or needed to say good-bye to seems like a relief, like it'll finally be over, out of my life, and i can move on from it all.  i'm waiting until i have all my funerals finished before i do the tearing and tossing,  i want to do it in my therapist's office, and it'll feel like one giant purge.  it sounds good to me just writing about it!

i absolutely know that so much poison has been released already from my body through massage and the pressure points.  absolutely!  i've been working on the physical side of all this for at least 15 years, and, while any kind of healing touch has been helpful, and has moved me forward, it wasn't until this year that i was ready for the pressure point releases.  gallons of tears, so much stored emotion released - i could tell when it was sadness, when it was anger, i could feel the emotions themselves - so much physical pain went with it, too.  but, the stress and tension had been sitting within my muscles for around 30 years, just stored there, and it took a lot of strength for her to push on those points to release what had been stored within.  it was awful, very difficult, on one level, and i could only take about 15 min. of that kind of pain at a time.  but, i kept at it, put myself thru it because i somehow knew that the only way out was through.  and i'm now, finally, seeing incredible results.  but, this, too, has been a process, difficult and painful at times, but necessary.  and i'm really glad i've been doing it.  i haven't felt this healthy and strong physically in years.

as far as my anger goes, most of the time it's been the emotion beneath others.  it's been the hidden emotion for me, and was usually covered up by sadness.  being sad was very easy for me to feel, but being angry was not.  now i'm finally getting in touch with my anger, and my sadness is leaving me.  i'd cry at every sweet, kind, loving thing i'd see or hear about.  with my funerals, and my inner child work, i'm sorting thru that sadness, releasing the anger that's been trapped forever, and i'm not so weepy all the time.  and that feels great!

i'm quite sure my hubby is not a narc, just that he's learned over the years to misplace or displace his anger/frustration onto something/someone (like me, or his ex, when they were together because we were convenient and safer).  his dad did the same thing with his mom, so i don't doubt he learned to do it from that.  and my therapist  is being very careful to check in with me about any little incidents that might be happening with him.  so, she's staying on top of it, which i'm glad about.

so, my life is going really well.  i'm feeling a positive momentum, a shift of some sort in the past week, that was noticeable in a positive way for me.  dang, at last!

and, sienna, when you are ready, you'll make the moves you need to make.  sometimes we need to push ourselves, sometimes we need to let our selves push us.  but, it's your call to make.  i hope you're feeling like you're making progress, too.  that's our goal, isn't it?  to make progress through this jungle?  keep on keepin' on.  and, hang tough.  you'll find exactly the right amount of courage that you need at the time you need it.

hey, sienna,

two thoughts while i was reading your post.  one about hugs, the other, about, well, hugs.  but from different angles.

what if you asked your therapist,  as a roundabout way of getting the information without putting yourself in jeopardy of being refused, what she thinks of hugs?  just when there's a break in the conversation or something, you could say something about that you've heard from others that hugs are valuable, and what does she think?  you'd get an answer from her, and it might open the door to you being able to ask if she thought the two of you having a hug at the end of the session would be a good idea, or something that she'd be comfortable with.   that way, you're not putting yourself directly in the path of a 'no'/rejection, even if she doesn't go for it, but it might lead to you being able to get one at the end of the session after all.  just a thought.

the other thought, and i don't know where you live, or what kinds of resources are around you, but are there any support groups in your area you could become a part of?  most places have 12-step meetings of one kind or another, and co-dependents anonymous (CoDA) might be a good fit.  i've been to a lot of these types of groups, from alcohol, to family, to CoDA, to overeating, and they all basically work the same way.  most of them i've encountered are very warm and welcoming, people there are at different levels of recovery, and they end in hugs.  it could be a place for you to not to feel so alone, while getting some real support from real people.  often there's someone who greets people at the door, and that person is kind, caring, and welcoming, glad to see you, sincere and genuine.  all my experiences have been positive, even tho going the first time is always scary - to everyone!  so, you're not alone in that, either.  again, just a thought.

thanks to you for your support, sienna.  you seem to be a very kind, caring person, and i like that.

i got a lovely massage last night, and it felt great!  it's the first time in years that i was able to tolerate a full-body massage.  my body has been so whacked out that even the leg massage that comes with a pedicure used to reduce me to tears from the pain.  it's getting healed, tho, a little at a time.  yay!!!

my husband and i went for a couples' session yesterday, and after a lot of b.s. and posturing on his part (macho man syndrome, i think) he finally turned it all around at the end of the session and said he's be willing to see her and work on his anger issues.  big relief for me.  that's the fount of the disrespect - he'll get angry or frustrated with someone, and he'll turn that anger onto me.  so, hopefully that's going to get fixed.  another yay!

in the meantime, i keep having my funerals (i think i told you about them) and grieving my losses.  today my funeral, what i wrote about, was for all the anger at my narc ex that, for my own sanity and peace of mind and well-being, i have to let go.  i know that anger, and i've had plenty of it, pounded my bed many, many times, wrote volumes about it, the pictures, etc., has been going on for years.  but i believe i'm stuck like a gerbil in one of those treadmill things, and keep running the same thing thru my mind over and over, not getting anywhere, and really not doing myself any good any more.  so, i've got to get off that treadmill, or i won't be able to continue moving forward.  that's how i see it, at least.  i know you've been concerned about me stuffing my anger, but this feels more like mourning the death of it.  it's just not useful anymore, so i'm saying good-bye to it.  i've got other things to do with my life now, especially since i'm feeling better, and just ruminating on this crap doesn't allow me to do something productive. 

with that, i'll take my leave.  keep on keepin' on, sienna.  i think you're doing good.  again, for some reason, just the tone you're writing in is sounding stronger to me than a week ago. 

i do believe i've been as messed up physically as emotionally with all this.  although i feel for every single one of you who have posted about physical ailments, it really is good to know that, 1), i'm not the only one with this crap (sometimes literally!  lol!) going on, and 2), that i haven't been making this up, that this, is, indeed, a product of the chronic stress and psychological abuse that comes from narc abuse.  i believe i've had 4 npd relationships as an adult - 2 husbands, a therapist, and my oldest daughter.  one ex-hub is no longer a threat, and i even got an apology out of him!  but, the other 3, well, there's no telling which was worse or how.  they were coming at me at the same time from 3 different psychological places.  and, as my body began breaking down, i eventually realized that i was on my own.  (i've instigated no contact with all of them, and did report the therapist to our state board).

i've been working on healing my physical being for about 15 years.  so much of what i've read on this discussion speaks to me.  the allergies that came from out of nowhere.  the glaucoma.  ibs.  tension in the muscles, literally not being able to relax, not knowing how!  dancing legs syndrome that kept me from being able to sleep well for 20 years.  (i have been on meds to help me sleep for another 20 years.  without help, i'm not able to sleep).  respiratory problems (copd).  increased cholesterol and triglyceride levels.  constant fatigue - i also believe that i experience adrenal fatigue.  a compromised immune system.  and, an unhealthy inflammation response that triggers a lot of symptoms, such as allergies, joint pain, psoriasis, hair falling out, muscle weakness.  aaagh!!!

i've done so much research on the internet, learning about the results of prolonged, chronic stress, and all these illnesses are simply symptoms.  it was the stress of being part of those npd's lives that caused it, that is the main problem.  so, i've been working at not only reducing the stress (i ran away from home, moved to a different country - but, again, that brought it's own set of stressors, such as different language, culture, environment, etc.) but at getting my body back on track.  i'm pushing 70, so time is playing its own part in all this.  still, massage therapy has helped my physical body so much, but it's only been in the past few weeks that i could even stand 20 min. of being worked on!  in years past, even getting a leg massage with a pedicure sent me into tears of pain.  i went to a healer for a couple of months who believed in leg massage, and i cried and blubbered every week!  what it told me was that i had stored a lot of tears inside me, which is why i kept going back.  i did this for 10 weeks.  it was horrible, but i believe it was beneficial at the same time.

now i have  a massage therapist who uses pressure point massage, and that has released an awful lot of stored emotions that i'd been holding.  in the beginning, i cried thru the entire 15 or 20 min. that i could stand to let her work on me - the pain got to be unbearable!  it's been about 4 months of this, and it's finally getting better.  but, dang, it's quite the process to go through.  still, i knew it's what i needed for me - i had to go thru all that pain because i'd been holding onto it for so many years and it was making me sick.

i'm still working at this, but i'm seeing progress.  no more allergy meds.  the inflammation attacks (which i saw someone refer to as 'stress flu' because it feels like the symptoms just before getting the flu - watery, scratchy eyes, general malaise, my skin would get hot, and i would feel miserable) are fewer and farther between.  my muscles are feeling a bit looser in general and the knots are being broken up, i'm beginning to sleep a bit better (even with the meds, sleep was still not very good, not enough hours, not entirely restful).  i'm better able to recognize the signs (like swelling ankles) when i'm becoming too stressed, and know to take a break or slow down. 

what i've been doing, i'm not necessarily recommending anyone else do.  i think everyone has to find what works for them.  i've gotten pretty aggressive with attacking this whole thing.  i've just gotten so sick of being sick!!!  but, for everyone suffering because of c-ptsd, narc abuse, and all the rest, my heart is with you.  i hope you can find a process that works for you to help alleviate your pain, your ailments, your worries and concerns.  this is all personal, and what works for one will not necessarily work for another.  but, i want to thank you all for sharing your stories.  it's difficult to find a doc who will look at these illnesses as stress-related - they're usually about pushing pills at us, telling us to go home, and then we're back in a few months trying to deal with the side effects of the pills and we're feeling worse off! 

i've looked a lot into vitamin therapy, and am using that now, as well as eating better, stopped smoking and drinking.  i do believe that part of my job is to give my body the best possible foundation and accompanying help so that it can get on with the business of healing itself.  some things, like my glaucoma, well, that may be permanent.  i don't know.  much of the rest of it i have faith can be diminished to a manageable degree.  still working on it.  here's to the rest of you!  keep up the good work, don't lose faith, we can heal!