I think I'm about to be terminated

[radical]

I think I'm about to be terminated by my therapist.

We've had a difficult couple of sessions in which I was angry, though not at her, but it has brought up a few longstanding issues between us.  She suggested I email her after the last session, and I sent her a couple of emails.  I had given her money to cover the extra work, but I'm not not sure I was clear about the purpose.  In response to the emails, she said she would probably email the following day but didn't.  Today she responded to a query about a joint appointment (with someone else) but nothing else to do with the content of those emails.  Ironically, I still feel unable to go ahead with what I need to do because I'm still not clear if she will be attending, despite the reply.

In the first email I suggested that there were a couple of  points of disagreement between us and that rather than go around in circles with them, maybe we could agree to not talk about them.  I tried to express that I value her and our relationship and that there was so much that was deeply valuable to me in our work together, that from my point of view, what doesn't work is much less important, and gets in the way, I respect her opinion and would prefer to agree to disagree.

The other thing is that there is a a painful issue that I haven't been able to get over.  She has seemed impatient about my  inability to get over this, so I stopped talking about how i felt about it for a long time, but that didn't help.  It has impacted every area of my life.  There were a lot of things going on in relation to it, and I felt i couldn't talk much about them.  I know she'd rather I talk about my childhood but this is current and devastating.  I reported abuse in which i was being set up to be mobbed out of a group and project I'd put my heart, soul, time and energy and money into.  I had become acutely depressed and suicidal as a result. The person involved was a key member of the group which was my other main means of support.  I chose to report it in this group also, because the abuse had overlapped, and also because it meant I had to leave this group too.  My T warned me this group would close ranks and hurt me if I did.

At first there was apparent support when i spoke about it, but I was lied to, betrayed, and their actions meant that i was effectively mobbed out of my relationships in both groups.  The consequences went even wider than the members of these groups.  Which was what my therapist predicted, in the sense that she said I would not be heard and speaking out would hurt me more.  There were ways in which what happened outstripped my capacity to "catastrophise" just how badly I would be betrayed and how badly it would affect me.  Anyway, it was my choice to go ahead and I did believe that although I might not be heard or believed, that the people I spoke to were trustworthy enough to not take action (against my express wishes) leading to further harm, to  breach of confidential information which could be used by the abuser, and that they would be honest with  me.  And I was wrong.

I don't know if it is partly because of me making a choice that she warned against, but I felt she has been irritable and impatient when I've tried to talk about how i feel, has reminded me that it was my choice to go ahead, that I had been warned they would unite against me.   At the time i said I was prepared to take the consequences and I am and have done.  But I need help with my feelings and with  dealing with the practical consequences of the fallout.  The abuser is dangerous, highly manipulative and poisonous and in a position to badly hurt others.  I'm not the first person she has pushed out of either group.  I did what I felt I needed to do.

So, after a couple of difficult sessions I said in my email that I thought it would be a good idea if I find someone else to talk about this particular thing with, to try and process it and get over it. I don't want to end therapy with my therapist.  I assume I offended her, but she hasn't responded.  She has been fantastic in so many ways.  I so value her and what she has done for me,  there aren't words to express how much.  I don't expect perfection from anyone.  I hoped I could find a way to get past some issues in asking to agree to disagree about a couple of things and to seek an alternative person to talk with about the loss and outfall of speaking out.  It doesn't mean I don't trust her - actually it took a lot of trust to be as honest as I was.  I don't want to pretend or be dishonest.  I need to get through my feelings about what happened and feel it would be better to do that with someone else.  I would wish to continue therapy with my T.

She has been brilliant through our time working together, better than I imagined I could hope for.  I feel afraid waiting for an axe to fall this week.  I don't regret being honest and I won't blame her if she chooses to end our work together.  I have been hard work - a difficult case.  Most therapists seem to be doing a bit of CBT/mindfulness with a few specific client problems. cPTSD work is a huge ask,it  is emotionally demanding , requires genuine caring and the development of a relationship way beyond the demands of most clients in a 'normal' middle-class practice.  Maybe she has come to the point where she has given all she can give.  I wouldn't blame her and I'll always be grateful to her if she has had enough.

But I feel sad and afraid.

[Eyessoblue]

That's really sad, you have just been honest, as a therapist surely she should understand all your feelings and concerns and not to reply to your emails just leaves you with uncertainty. Could you maybe email her again and say how much she has helped you etc and how you actually do need her still. It would be very difficult for you mentally and emotionally to have to find another therapist, reading between the lines it seems that she has really helped you and you're just going through a 'blip' with her at the moment which I think does happen a lot and she surely should know this. It's never plain sailing when you're in therapy, I myself have had times when I've left a session furious with what she's said to me and vowed to myself never to go back, if I could have emailed her I would have done but probably would have regretted it after, now I write in a journal how I feel and normally by the time of my next session I have got over it but do say how she's made me feel and we normally work through it together. It is hard trying to find a therapist that works for' you' in understanding and getting on the same wavelength as you.

[Kizzie]

Radical, when I read your post  it struck me how honest, fair and human you were in it. If I were your T I think I could not help but respond to all that you wrote, and not just as a T but as a fellow human being. Being truthful in a respectful way is a gift imo so I truly hope you can say these things to her, that she will hear you and you can work through this together for both your sakes.   

[radical]

Thank you for your replies.  I hope we can work this out.  I was just reading another thread that described part of the problem for me:
:)Don't get attached to a therapy or approach. Its easy to find something that helps, and believe it is the One True Way, become evangelical about it. It helps with motivation to stick with it, but it can also make you ignore what's NOT working and become too invested in "selling" it to others, perhaps even make forays into becoming The Guru (looks at self in mirror :| )

Oh, and if you're a perfectionist or people pleaser - be careful not to try and be "good at therapy" and get an 'A' from your therapist Its the one place you really need to be emotionally honest, be free to screw up, be lazy, be whatever. One quote I remember reading - "therapy doesn't really begin until the client gets angry with the therapist". Worth bearing in mind

Thanks Biscuit, if you are around.

My therapist doesn't always hold to her particular therapy mode, but at times I feel that there are things I need to work on, experiences which are important, which seem to be so far outside what she believes in that i find it very difficult to deal with them.  This is about the part of the post (above) where I talk about the need to agree to not talk about particular things.

Now I think about it, agreeing to disagree and not talking about them is not going to be an answer.  i don't want to go into too much detail and part of that is I feel a sense of disloyalty in describing the problem more fully, that I'm being unfair to her even though she's not reading this.

I do feel good when I'm the 'good client' and things go well, I translate my experiences into the framework.  Most things can be.   More and more lately, I can't find a way through.  More and more I feel suppressed by the model.  A couple of the most important experiences of integration I've had had been about "choosing me".  It doesn't sit well with me - selfishness leading to a profound sense of integration, and it also doesn't sit well in the model.  The model (ACT) is based on no-self, and my therapist is Buddhist.  I can't be certain that this is the core of the problem but it feels like it is a big part of it.

She isn't rigid. Our relationship has been so healing.  But I do feel at an impasse.  There have been some things that have been really troubling and I feel blocked in talking about them because she sees them as illusory and I don't.  i see them as real problems that I want to work on.  I know there are things that seem like problems which actually hide the real problem.  I have looked at whether I believe it to be the case, and i don't.  The problems relate to my actual experiences, i don't believe them to be mere perceptions but, that they  are real problems for me.  I'm sure there are elements to these problems that are about my perceptions, that I need to understand, but these are not non-problems covering 'real issues'.

I feel guilty writing this about someone who has been there for me through thick and thin, (above and beyond the call of duty too), who has shared her wisdom and warmth with such generosity.  I so hope we can work this out.

[sanmagic7]

radical, since it seems that it's what you want to do, i also hope you and she can work this out.

i just have some concerns about her methods - that of not 'hearing' you when you say something is important to you, becoming irritable with you if you don't do what she had suggested, and so on.  i don't understand that type of therapeutic approach.  knowing you from your postings here, you seem so down to earth and straightforward, and i can't see you wanting to talk about something that you believe is huge and a big matter in your life if it wasn't just that.  therefore, i don't understand why she wants to shy away from it, and wants to talk about other things (like your childhood) when it seems clear to me that you need some support for what you're going through right now.

(by the by, i've made some of those decisions as well, to speak up, and it's not gone well, even when others have told me they didn't think it's a good thing to do.  even so, the fallout is real, painful, and unpleasant, and a little soothing compassion is always appreciated).

as far as saying you're a tough case, as if to excuse her attitude, speaking from the other side of the desk, there really aren't very many 'easy' cases.  they all take care, compassion, a willingness to explore, listen, guide, help the person find their way through a jungle that might be overgrown with vines and infested with dangerous animals.  that's just part of the job.  and if she has a certain way of seeing things, and you're not fitting into that way, that's not on you. 

in grad school, we were shown vignettes of a woman who went to 3 different kinds of therapists.  they were the leaders of their own school of therapy (client-centered, gestalt, rational-emotive.) and she brought the same problem to each one.  he worked with her out of his framework, and at the end, she talked about which one she liked best.  that kind of thing is different for everyone, especially if the therapist has a particular framework from which s/he holds a certain perspective.  everyone doesn't fit into every framework.

you said your therapist is buddhist, and is coming from a 'no-self' paradigm, and you're feeling that you're at an impasse.  (by the way, there's no shame or guilt about speaking about her and what's going on.  you've been nothing but respectful - you're just talking about the fact that you've run into some problems).  you also said that her framework may be a big part of the problem.  radical, with your logic and gut reactions that i've read in this forum, i'd trust that.

relationships of whatever kind can run their course.  i agree with you that attempting to avoid subjects, or wanting to ignore them/put them to the side because you and she can't seem to agree is not going to help you explore in depth the issues that are bothering you and preventing you from moving forward.  perhaps this is the case here.  i'm not saying she's a bad therapist, or that you haven't gotten a lot of good out of the relationship, but maybe it's gone as far as it can and it's come to the point where you need a different perspective in order to resolve the issues that are getting in the way of you moving on.

co-therapy is possible, especially if it's with someone who has a specialty.  i know of a lot of emdr therapists who work on the trauma part while the regular therapist works on other issues.  so, that is an option, if your present therapist agrees.  in the meantime, you deserve to be heard for what's going on with you and how it's affecting you in the here and now as well as what has happened in your past.

i'm going to have to look up that 'no-self' framework for therapy, because that's got me confused.  glad you brought it up - it's a new one on me.  whatever works is best, but when it stops working, well, that happens, too.  and, personally, i don't like that she's left you hanging by not answering your email.  of course that would bring up all kinds of questions and concerns about what does that mean?  including, am i going to be fired as a client?  i don't think that was fair of her to put you in that position.  just my opinions.

[radical]

Thank you for responding, SM.

At the heart of our therapy is our relationship.  It has never been based on just one modality.  I didn't mean to imply it was.  No-self is a Buddhist belief and not a part of ACT, though to complicate things ACT is somewhat founded on some of the principles of Buddhist philosophy, as are all mindfulness-based treatments.

She has reassured me that she is not thinking of ending therapy with me and we are going to talk about this today.  I haven't really done justice to her or our relationship in trying to write about this.

[sanmagic7]

radical, i think you were writing from a place of concern or confusion or something.  i didn't see anything from what you said that would make me think she was a bad therapist, or bad for you in any way.  your post continually emphasized that she's been very helpful to you over time, that maybe this was just a bump in the road that you didn't quite understand.  and, i'm sorry if i sounded like i was putting her down - i really wasn't.  just letting out thoughts.

the main thing is that the two of you are going to talk about it, and i'm very glad about that.  i hope it all turns out well for you and for the relationship.  the therapeutic relationship, like any other, needs to be updated every so often, things cleared up and out, especially when it's a relationship of any longstanding amount of time.  then, everyone is able to move on from there, like a refresh.  best to you.  always on your side.

[radical]

We talked.

Now it's me who is thinking about terminating our therapy relationship.
It went fine in a way, except now I'm away I feel that she brushed over all my concerns and pathologised my having them.

Just in regard to the last fraught session, in which I was in crisis (something I realise she still doesn't get), we argued for virtually the entire session.  She talked over me and didn't let me finish sentences.  In the end she asked me to email her.  I did, and raised about five different concerns about our therapy relationship.  A couple of days later she wrote to say she would get to it the following day.  She didn't.  I finally sent an email asking if she was going to attend an upcoming appointment with someone else that hadn't been confirmed.  Her brief reply didn't even answer this question.  I wondered if she was considering terminating and briefly asked.  She said she wasn't.  When I raised the email issue she said she'd been busy.

Today,  I altered my approach with her because i thought my problem with communicating might be part of the problem.  I told her i was going to explain my point, and then, briefly, the situation, because I felt that she wasn't getting my points (understanding where i was coming from). 

Christmas is really hard for me, this one coming up feels like a crisis with so many things coming to a head.  I can't remember the last time I felt heard.

edit to add - I appreciated your reply SM.  After today, it was useful to come back to.  I need to be heard and not to have my problems seem to annoy my therapist.  I have emailed her about this.  I hope we can work this out.

[Three Roses]

 

[sanmagic7]

it sounds like a dilemma, radical.  it also sounds like you're getting some new eyes with which to look at all that's happening with her.  i think that's a good thing.

the holidays have so much 'family' pressure on them, and too many times it seems that people are almost forced into spending what's supposed to be a time of love and giving with people who have hurt them or continue to hurt them.   if this is the kind of thing you're feeling strongly about exploring in therapy, yeah, you deserve to be heard.  this holiday thing comes around every year, and if it's a painful time, i think it deserves some priority.  childhood issues will always be there, but this entire holiday season is rife with triggers and memories, and warrants attention right now!

maybe that's not what you're even talking about, but it's what came to mind after reading what you wrote.

i'm glad you're questioning what's going on with  your therapist.  i don't think that's a bad thing.  it doesn't mean it's negative, only that you're seeing things from a different perspective, possibly one that is more in keeping with your own needs, wishes, and wants.  you can't remember the last time you've been heard?  you mean by your therapist?   well, that can't feel good or productive.

and, i'm really sorry for you having such a difficult session.  i have a hard time picturing actually spending all that time arguing with a client.  maybe a friend might do something like that, but not a professional.  personally, from the way you write, i think your communication comes across loud and clear.  but, brushing aside and pathologising your concerns - mmmm, red flag for me.  (of course, i want therapy to go perfectly for everyone - that may be just me!  : )  ) again, i hope this is a glitch that can be overcome if that's what you want.  best to you, radical.  this is a rotten time for this to be happening to you.    big hug!

[radical]

I appreciate your support SM.
I will be seeing her tomorrow with someone else about a medication issue.  I intend to cancel our final appointment of the year.  I feel like I've been trying every way I can to to and improve things.  I find it very disturbing that since things have been so difficult, she has only responded positively when I have tried to placate her  (ie when I've anxiously tried to make her feel better, and smooth over the cracks), and either ignored or pathologised my concerns.

I understand that she is frustrated in my inability to get over the situation which destroyed by social systems and badly traumatised me.  I stopped talking about how I felt about it for a long time. I've found comments snapped impatiently such as "you need to grow a thicker skin",  and "well it was your choice to report it", and numerous others to be hurtful.  There have been many that have expressed frustration that I can't get over it.

In this last session, I felt she expressed a lengthy, patronising version of 'I think you are more disturbed than I realised'.  She didn't address any of my concerns.  She snapped at me when I tried to say how I felt (including about my fears about Christmas) and was approving when I went along with her interpretations. I was trying to see things from her point of view, but now I have come away, I disagree.  She has said I am pushing people away in relation to a couple of people who let me down badly, betrayed my confidence and made the situation worse when I reported it to them.  I have been repeatedly gaslit about the situation by their continually trying to persuade me, since, that I was wrong about the abusive person, who continues to be close a friend of theirs.  I was taking my therapist's advice in continuing with this crazy-making situation.

I have found her to be more and more prescriptive in telling me what I should do, and what I should think.  There has been a huge issue about my lack of boundaries that I've tried to explain over months and I've run into the 'no-self' problem.  I've tied myself in knots trying not to use any words such as 'identity', 'self' etc. and therefore struggled with expressing any problems in relation to them because it's hard to describe problems about things she doesn't see as an issue because they are illusory.  I do understand her perspective on this, but I am having problems in the social world in which these things do exist, and a knee-jerk reaction that problems in relation to them aren't real problems is unhelpful.

I feel part of the problem is that she feels I'm blaming her for the pain I've been in about where I find myself in my life.  I don't.  I feel angry and hurt that I've found our sessions in the last couple of months mostly unhelpful.  I've extended the time, come up with improvements in the way I communicate, tried to find solutions that don't offend or hurt her, but things have gotten steadily worse.  I've taken on board what she's said, written about and thought about them, tried to talk about them from my point of view, and have felt unable to make things any better.

This has been a really important relationship and she has been genuinely wonderful over the time we've been working together, but i can't afford another awful session before Christmas.

[sanmagic7]

o, radical, you wrote so many things that just seem wrong to me with being a professional.  it's not your job to make things easy for her, it's the other way around.  her impatience, irritability, 'shoulding' you, acting one way when you appease her, and another way when you stick up for yourself - i'm sorry, but i don't see this as a good professional relationship anymore.  i'm sorry this has happened to you at this time, especially when it's at a point in the year where you have problematic issues coming at you, and need help and support in dealing with them.

snapping at you?  how is that kind of behavior helpful?  patronizing you?  encouraging you to stay in situations where you are being abused?  you know, radical, when you first began writing about this, you didn't really say much about what was going on in this relationship.  the more you've shared, the more i'm glad you're getting out. 

therapists' jobs are to build a client up, guide, help them over the rough spots, give them tools so that they can go out into the world and make healthier choices for themselves - in other words, to help them heal.  i've always believed that if i did my job right, i'd put myself out of work, because my clients would be able to leave the relationship with confidence, self-esteem, and new knowledge about how to deal with the situations they might find themselves in.   they wouldn't need me anymore.  that, to me, was success.

but, what you're now writing about doesn't seem to fit much of that criteria, at least not in the past few months.  telling you to grow a thicker skin does not help you explore and resolve the root problem.  i don't think she's a trauma therapist or understands much about c-ptsd and its layers, nuances, and detriments to a person's very soul. 

i am sorry it didn't work out.  i'm glad you got some good out of it, but it sounds to me like it's time to move on.  my heart is with you, radical.  thanks for sharing.  i think you've been able to see the reality of something you kind of didn't want to look at too closely for awhile.  very courageous, you.  big hug.

[mourningdove]

it's not your job to make things easy for her, it's the other way around. 

This.

So sorry it didn't work out, radical.

[radical]

Thanks for your support.

When it has been good it has been really good.  I feel gutted and at a loss to know how to proceed.  She is important to me. the best thing I can do is get some space and try and resolve this after the holidays.  Maybe some time out will help

I can't continue to feel worse after every session and feel that I have to say what she wants to hear, or at best find a way to translate things into a format in which she can hear them (possibly), and keep quiet about much of what is important and bothering to me. 

I don't think she has any idea how troubled I've been about our relationship, or for how long. 

[sanmagic7]

my heart is with you, radical.  i wish i could do more to support and be there for you.  i think you're right - she sounds pretty clueless about the dynamic of this relationship.  big hug to you.