delayed realizations - any opinions?

[radical]

Hi Sanmagic,
A long reply that I'd nearly finished was just whipped out of existence by a Windws update.  I'm too shattered right now to rewrite it.

You are not out on a limb by yourself with this.  It is the flipside of the same coin.  I've been struggling with painful realisations.  I too am alone  here in my own unchartered desert.  Maybe it is a place we all have to stop at, part of letting bulls#it go.  There are illusions that bring comfort, and made the world manageable for the child who found themselves alone and unloved.   

I don't think either of us is a narc, if that's any comfort.

Don't be harsh and judgemental towards yourself, this comfortless place is bleak enough

[Wife#2]

San,

I was raised with the same subtle message. I know it's in there. I rebelled against it when I was in my 20's, voicing out loud that I was nothing special and that average was just fine with me. My mother was aghast. Yes, I actually use words like aghast - it's part of the fleas from that upbringing. I used to think that I had slain that superiority beast inside, but I see it come out in my words.

I do not think that you are a narcissist. Not even a little bit! A true narcissist (in my opinion only) does think they are superior, but has the added dimension that they will sabotage others if they get to close or threaten the narcissists superiority view. What I have found in you, through all our communications, is a champion, and friend and cheerleader. These traits are against the very nature of the narcissistic mind. So, no, you may have fleas, but you are no true narcissist. (That's my unprofessional opinion).

One day, my greatest hope for you is to trust the feeling of being loved. You so deserve to feel the warmth and joy and compassion that come with the love we who have begun to know you feel towards you. That you will have the time to heal and open and feel is a very big part of my prayer. 

[sanmagic7]

my dear radical,

i hate it when that happens!  way too often, and, yes, always too exhausted to re-write the whole thing.

dang it, how the frick does this happen?  i know i'm not a bad person, just like i know you're not either.  i don't believe anyone who has sought help on this forum is.  i've been through so much, just like i know others have, and i sometimes wonder how any of us have survived it.  the wonders of the strength of the human spirit.

ok, thanks for the two sides of the same coin analogy.  that helps put a better, more pos. perspective on it for me.  i love your last line - so earthy, so wise, so true.   too much pain, not enough sleep, and i slip over the edge of holding it all together.  but, maybe that's not a bad thing.  i'm raw, real, more able to see me now than ever.  it's bringing up these realizations of being a kind of person that is in a cage looking out, trapped by her own mind.  maybe that's where i've needed to go to finally discover the key to get out of here.  not quite there yet, but it's happening.

but, so many people that i've found along the way are shallow, superficial, of a type that i can't stand to be around for more than about 5 min.  some of them are 40-yr. friends who i used to live, work, and play with.  now when i speak with them, i can't relate!  where i'd spent years together with them, i don't want them any closer than perhaps 2 hrs. a year.  or only an email relationship based on trivial interests.

everything is changing, and that may be why i'm beginning to question.  thanks, by the by, for not thinking i'm a narc.  there are several in my bio. family (sister, daughter) and my ex hub and first therapist, who are, and who have all laid simply awful stuff on me.  i guess it is a matter of survival, any way possible for us.  unloved children, unloved teens, unloved adults.  when in tarnation does this end?

i can't really say that.  my hub and other daughter and 2 best friends do love me, and i know that from their behaviors toward me.  that is the extent of my worthwhile world.  and these cyber people, like you, radical, and the rest who have shown me more compassion without knowing me than i've ever received in my life.  what a blessing to have found this place.  i am forever grateful for this forum and the people like you who have my '6', as they say.  how weird to me.  but, how grand as well.  thank you.  dang, i wish the dumb windows wouldn't have interfered.  i would've loved to read the rest of what you wrote.  it's like manna from heaven to someone who has been starving.

i also realized that i haven't been able to feel happy all my life because i've always been battling to be me.  yesterday, i got a glimpse of the feeling.  my hub and i had a good chat and felt like a team for the first time (he's been trying, but has had his own hangups).   in the pasti can remember thinking - i'm with a man i love, got a house, my own car, 2 children,  everything someone could ask for (on my salary!  lol!) and i still don't feel happy.  what's wrong with me?  not being able to feel happy all my life has always bugged me.  now i know why, and it makes sense.  how could i feel happiness when in the middle of an ongoing battle from before i can remember?.  so, the emotions are beginning to show themselves, and i'm glad of that. 

i'll take my leave for the nonce.  love and peace to you and everyone here.  i wish you all only the best.

wife#2, you have just weighed in as i was about to send this, so i want to acknowledge how wonderfully warm and comforting your words are.  i felt the warmth.  that's a start. 

ugh!  fleas!  i hate those awful things!  what a gross way of looking at that backlog of messages and expectations and our efforts to stay sane in the midst of the insanity.  makes my skin crawl!  thanks for that visual, lol!!! 

and, i love words like aghast.  i just love words.  does that show a superior belief about oneself?  i'm an author, so i'm always looking for just the right word.  i believe words have power and substance and abilities to harm or soothe when used in a certain way.  and that sometimes the 'f' word just hits the nail on the head when no other word can express a feeling quite the same way.  i never thought of using words as a superiority thing.  i just love learning new ones all the time, and using them as often as possible.  i even write a 'word of the week' kind of thing to friends and family every sunday, exploring words, their origins, and what they mean to me, or how they manifest themselves in my life.  i thought it was only part of my craving to learn.

so, might that be something else to look at?  how i use words?  i never meant to sound superior, but maybe that's how i come off.  dang, whack a mole. 

in the meantime, thanks for your opinion on my narc confusion for a moment.  one day i hope to report to this forum and all of you that i have finally discovered what it feels like to be loved.  it must be the greatest feeling of all time.  thank you. 

big hugs to you both.  you have brightened up my day considerably.

[sanmagic7]

saw the doc today.  took a simple blood pressure test for adrenal fatigue, and looks like that's what's going on.  i've suspected it for awhile, but to know for sure just slams the door in my face.

my hub is having eye surgery tomorrow, and is nervous, and i'm working to be strong for him , but on the inside i just don't know.    more stress, which is the opposite of what i need.  and when he comes home it'll be at least a week of me waiting on him cuz he has to stay stomach and head down for that long.  i'm really only good at nursing for about 3 days, then i begin to get irritated.  i hate knowing that when he so willingly does so much for me.  for now, tho, rest.  relax.  don't worry 'bout a thing, baby.   

my chest just knotted up, which means fear (i can at least  know that now).   i'm scared at how stressed i'll become taking care of him.  which is also stressing me out just thinking about it.   dang.  and the fear continues to being so stressed out that i get physically sick again.   i'm having a hard time with all of this right now.  my little me is crying inside.   she's scared, too, and i don't know how to comfort her about this.  we both know the reality of it.  i guess i'll just pray.

[sanmagic7]

possible reprieve.  as much as i'd love to take care of him, i know that it would stress me out something terrible.  the doc who did the surgery is 125 mi. away, so he's up there now, staying at his sister's.  his doc told him he would have to be on his stomach for a week, and after one day he's already telling me that it's killing his back.  he had to go back today, and possibly back again within a week, which will hopefully mean that his sister will let him stay with her until he's well enough to come home.   fingers crossed and prayers flying.  i wish i were well enough to care for him, but i'm facing more facts about how sick i am, my body is, and adding stress is only a bleak dark spot on my horizon now. 

my little me is sick at the thought, and i can't help her.  all i can say is that i'll deal with whatever comes down the pike, but i'm so sick of becoming even more ill, of wearing out my adrenals even more.  i've been doing relaxation stuff, and that helps.  having feelings is making me more human, but i don't like feeling this fear.  it's everywhere, and i'm not used to it. 

i've also gotten stuck in this quandary about doing this work, but it is so stressful, which hurts me and causes me to become non-functional at times.  yet, i want to feel happy, i want to know what feeling loved feels like, and i can only feel those good things by doing the work.  i feel so strapped.  sometimes i just don't know.  if not for my daughter . . .

[Three Roses]

Dear sanmagic! I wish I could fly to you, look you in the eye and tell you how much you are worth! You, who have given so much, to your clients over the years, to your family, and have not received an equitable return on your investment. Thank goodness for your daughter and husband!

Standing beside you, dear. 

[sanmagic7]

thanks, 3 roses, and thank you god for them, indeed.  they both need me and have given me so much, but he would understand.  i just couldn't do anything to hurt her.  hangin' on by fingernails . .  luckily i've got good, strong nails, but even they are becoming ravaged by fungal infections!  i know, how gross!!!  stuff just keeps popping up from all this.  like my body is simply disintegrating.  but i do take strength from you and the responses i get here.  these are the best people, ever!

[Wife#2]

 

[sanmagic7]

thank you my dear.  sorely needed.

[sanmagic7]

realized today how frantically i've been attacking all this, and how much it's still reflecting that message from my dad about being a role model for others, and, even more so, how it goes even deeper to the belief that i'm not ok the way i am.  i always have to be improving, always have to be striving to get it right, always have to be reaching for that elusive and impossible goal of perfection.

my husband has been gone because of surgery, won't be home till wed.  my schedule has become completely different without him here.  no anticipating the alarm going off at 4:45 am, waking myself up so that i can make his food for the day (being a good 'mexican' wife, even tho i'm not mexican and i hate cooking), and generally on alert as to what his schedule is going to be that day, if he's going to come home while i'm trying to sleep (because i'm not tired at night until 10 or 11, so not enough sleep any day), paying attention to him and his needs (even tho he does so many errands for me) feels interruptive, and having to make our popcorn/snack while watching tv at night, which only goes on for about an hour, and he falls asleep cuz he's exhausted by 8.

i know it sounds petty, but this week without him has been so good for me.   i know i'm disappointing people, too.  like, one of my girlfriends is very politically active, knows all the behind-the-scenes stuff, and i know most of it as well, but i've told her that i just can't talk w/ her about it anymore, it's too upsetting, too stressful.  she wants to talk to me so much about it all, and i'm holding my boundaries as hard as i can, but we still manage, when we're on the phone, to spend at least a half hour talking about this frickin' election and how horrible it is.  she was my best friend for over 50 yrs., and i just don't want to talk to her anymore, yet her mom's dying, and i want to be supportive of that, so i call her like once a month.  it breaks my heart on one level.

my other dear friend is planning to visit here in dec. and at first she was going to stay with us.  thank you god for my new truth voice.  i finally told her that i'd rather put her up in a hotel, it just won't work to have her here cuz of my hub's schedule, and we don't have the room.  i told her how much money i have that i can afford to spend cuz she's also very poor.  she used to live here, and i know she wants to go around with me, see people, places, and things, but i'm just not going to be able to be her playmate the way she wants me to, either, so i know i'll be disappointing her as well.  it happened when i went to visit her in march - i just couldn't go all the places she wanted me to go, and i know she wasn't happy about it.

i hate the thought of disappointing people, but i also know that my system just can't take it, my emotional state can't take it, and i won't back down.  they will be disappointed, but there's nothing i can do about it.  i just hate it.  i used to be the life of the party!  hahaha!!!

for some reason it seemed important that i write this down.  i think i was getting anxious about it.  and i still have to learn better how not to do that.  for right now, i'm more aware than ever about how sick i am, more than i thought, and i want to last as long as i can in the best possible way.  my last breakdown, what, a month ago? has been so awful to crawl back out of.  i don't want to go thru that again.  so, now i'm scared of having to deal with anything anymore because i don't know what might possibly break me now, how fragile am i now.   i am able to do so little physically.

i'll be getting a blood test this month, see if there's anything really out of whack inside that i'm not aware of.  we'll see how that goes.  but, i can't count the number of blood tests i've taken in my life that showed no major problems, yet i felt like crap, and no one investigated further.  and this one is to see if i have a fungal infection in my system (a real possibility) and if my liver is in good enough shape to handle the medicine to help wipe it out.  and the last time i took some stronger medicine for this, i ended up with the runs for 3 weeks and an infection in my kidneys, as well as possibly in my liver, and had to go on antibiotics for a week, and i'm scared that's gonna happen again.

past experience is fueling these thoughts and the fear around them.  the kidney thing happened this year.  the breakdown happened about 2 mos. later.  i'm sleeping better w/o my husband here.  i can't work more than 15 min/day and i'm on the verge of exhaustion.  (been trying to clean up the grit so he doesn't have to worry about it getting in his eye and causing an infection).  he's thinking he won't be able to work for a month cuz his vision will be blurry and one of his jobs is selling papers outdoors in the wind - we live in the desert - and if he's home, he'll have the tv on all day and because he's crippled, i'm the one who has to go get stuff for him when he wants it (polio at age 3, been on crutches since age 6), and i'm just dreading all of it!  and it's all coming down in the span of 6 weeks.  it's already too much in my mind, i can't imagine what it's going to be like actually going thru it.

so, deep breath, take it as it comes.  i don't want all these thoughts to be wrecking the enjoyment of having my own schedule w/ no interruptions from anyone else.  i'm thinking hermit may be a good career choice right about now.

[radical]

You don't sound petty at all.  You need to look after you as your top priority.

I've come to the same place, right down to uninvolving myself in all my political activities.  I don't have the heart for it anymore, and nothing is more important than working on myself.

I've also done the "unthinkable" and told friends they couldn't stay with me.  I couldn't tolerate the strain of trying to keep up a facade when the reality is I'm barely managing to get by.  I say "no" to all sorts of things.  I don't offer to help out when ordinarily I would have. I don't recognise myself in many ways, but guess what?  I don't feel guilty anymore. 

I feel like I've been trying to keep up a pretense for so long.  All my energy went into it.  Now my energy goes into psychotherapy, healthy food and exercise, treatment, body work (breath work and Qi Gong), meditation/mindfulness, writing in my journal,  work and activities which enrich me, a few healthy, reciprocal relationships, (and some pretty meagre efforts so far to make some more), the bare minimum as regards my responsibilities to others, such as family, ditto home/garden work beyond what I get something from, my little personal goals that I don't even want to write about because they sound so silly.  It is so selfish, yet I need this and I'm in a place where I can.  I'm grateful for this time and the chance to really care for myself.  Who knows, I might get good at it.

What I'm saying is, I don't believe it is wrong and i think it is healthy to be more real and to let go of pretending.  I've been very defensive about the word "breakdown" because the people in the groups in which the bully who finally pushed me over the edge prevail, think I'm completely nuts and that is why I said crazy things about poor little her. (Aka the truth about abuse).  But yeah, I've had the mother of all breakdowns, and my first priority is caring for myself.  The irony may well turn out to be that breaking down have been the best thing that could have happened to me.

Could you talk with your husband about your health and needs and how you can best work together and support each other at such a difficult time for both of you?    Like what things you can outsource?  Maybe meals of parts of them could be delivered, or you could agree on simpler foods, maybe get some help with home chores, ignore all but the essentials, or ask friends and family for support, are head phones for TVs available?,  Maybe organise a better sleeping arrangement and general life schedule that suits you both, (possibly even preplanned time apart during each day).  Your husband might have  his own suggestions and be happy to find ways to best recuperate together.

I don't know what is or isn't possible in your situation.  It sounds like you are doing great. 

[sanmagic7]

thanks, radical.  that was so uplifting, and so sad on one level.  having to accept that i'm not who i used to be, can't do what i used to love doing, can't even have good times with my friends anymore. 

but you speak the truth about having to make me my priority now, my health, my well-being.  i'm sure when my hub gets home we'll talk about all this.  and he'll be more than willing to let me do what's best for me, as much as he can.  i'm just not used to not bouncing back - this whole year has been a nightmare, and it's not ending, and i know that one thing on top of another has kept taking its toll.  i've felt so pressured to 'fix' myself because of my age, that i don't have much time left, but maybe i'm killing myself a little faster by thinking like that. 

so, that's another thing to accept, is that my recovery has to take a different avenue.  basically, that means that i have to accept that i'm good enough the way i am even if i don't make one more change in myself.  maybe i won't get my feelings back (except fear has reared its head with a vengeance!) and i have to make it ok for myself.  oooops, that's another change right there! 

and that's part of this.  change is stressful, which hurts my adrenals.  if i don't change, the fears come, and that is stressful, which hurts my adrenals.  i feel like a moebius strip, running around and around the same side of the circle only to meet myself where i began.

so, i ask for help to make it thru another day.  i do a few yoga stretches every day, a little movement.  we'll see what else we can come up with.  for now, i'm enjoying my time alone, wishing i had more.  some days i wish i could just check myself into an old folks' home, let them feed me, entertain me, and take care of me.  i'm so so tired.   thanks for the suggestions, radical, and thanks for caring.

[sanmagic7]

just got back from getting bloodwork done to see if i have a systemic fungal infection.  living in mexico, fungal stuff, especially for nails, runs rampant, but it seems that mine may have gone internal and is now popping up all over the place.  we'll see if there's other stuff wrong with me as well.  ugh! 

had a fight with my hub last night and this morning.  told him that if this is too much for him, then just leave.  every fight we have, and they are on a regular basis, at least 3x/week, is that extra piece of stress that i don't need.  it has been so nice this week while he's been gone, but this is our second fight over the phone, and we had one before he left. 

he has a tendency to take something i said and either try to fix it (i didn't ask for help) or bring up how the mob, etc. run the world.  i know what's going on, i've told him about this many times, he keeps doing it.  or, he'll say stuff like 'we have to stop eating so many sweets', or 'we have to watch out for 'whatever'', and i tell him that he needs to speak for himself, not speak for me, and he gets defensive and says 'i can say whatever i want, and if you don't like it, just say, that's not for me, or something'.  it seems he can't speak up for himself as an individual.

i've told him that every breakdown i have kills a piece of me, and that extra stress is killing me faster, but he either doesn't want to hear it, or doesn't want to acknowledge it.  so, this morning i told him that i can say anything i want as well, like 'you ((**(Y" or '((&^ you' but i don't because i love and respect him.  i think it comes from his dad saying 'this is my house and i can do anything i want here'. 

he had begun therapy for his perceptions on communication, but she turned out to be the therapist who was untrained, and liked to talk to him about what was going on in admin.  he had 4 sessions with her, and each time he said, i think we'll start getting into it next time' and nothing ever happened.

i'm just so frustrated, so stressed, so not looking forward to him coming home.  i hate to cook, and while he's been gone the most i've done on the stove is heat up some soup and boil some pasta.  when he's here, i'm up with him at 4:45 every a.m., cooking a meal for him to take with him, beside all the extras, fo he has food for the day, because he's basically gone for 12 hrs.

i know i said this all before, but this fight brought it all back up, and i thought of my little me in all this, and i can't comfort her.  she knows what i know as an adult, and i can't change this frickin' election, i can't change the state of the world, i can't change any of the stuff that hurts us all.  and, i can't change that my hub works for pesos a day at a job w/ gringo bosses who treat mexican's like crap, him especially, and he lusts after my money (soc. sec.) and i feel that, i've heard his comments, and i've helped him so much financially but i can't stand hearing him want more from me! 

so, color me selfish and whiny and just plain messed up.  my health is failing and my little me just stays in the corner of my belly waiting.  and there's nothing i can do. 

and, radical, yes, those were all wonderful suggestions you gave me, but they all cost money that we don't have.  besides, i don't even like eating anyone's cooking down here anymore cuz everything is fried, and i rarely use oil/grease in making food, and i don't trust how they keep their food, and i'm nervous when people come to my house to clean, just don't like their presence here.  everyone looks at what we have (which isn't much, a tv and a dvd and a computer) and covets it, and i've had people clean and steal.   i just want everyone to leave me alone!  i want to get well!  but i don't know, realistically, if that's possible.  so, i'm dying, and i'm working to do it at a slower pace rather than at a quicker pace, but (*&^^(^( it, if he doesn't get his (*Y^ together, i'm gonna have to throw him out, too, and find somewhere else to go.   maybe a nice psych institution, fill me up with drugs and let me drool my day away.   arrrgh!!!

time to go beat my bed.

[meursault]

he keeps doing it.  or, he'll say stuff like 'we have to stop eating so many sweets', or 'we have to watch out for 'whatever'', and i tell him that he needs to speak for himself, not speak for me

I did what he did with an ex-girlfriend years ago.  I didn't realize it, because I was hurt and defensive and trying to keep things from flying apart, but I was doing it to try to keep feeling a sense of "us" when I was feeling like she didn't want me any more.  Maybe way off base, but that reminded me of it.  She was pretty adventurous, but terrified of heights.  I lied to myself that she even wanted to go skydiving, since I did.  She was too afraid to jump, and then we spent weeks with her upset because she thought I was disappointed in her.  I wasn't, but I was thinking she did it to basically distance herself from the "us".  She and I were talking two different languages and neither of us realized it to correct it.  Dunno if any of that is helpful or maybe even the opposite.  I don't mean anything bad by it, because I've been on the opposite side and just felt invisible, unheard, and invalidated too.

Meursault

[Wife#2]

San, Oh, friend. 

How I wish I was there, with a pair of Nerf bats. I might not be very strong, but I can hold up one to defend with. Leaving you all the strength you want to spend or not spend bopping me on the arm or swinging for a grand slam. We could put whatever faces we want on the bats and let them 'smack' each other! I've actually done this with my DS and his light sabers. It helps him *play* out some of his bad feelings sometimes.

One thing to remember about the horrible, no good, despicable election coming up - this country, the USA - has survived centuries now. AND with bad, corrupt or just plain stupid presidents. We'll survive whichever candidate wins. It might not be fun or sensible, but we will survive.

As to H coveting your disability funds, I am on the other side of that one and I do know that it can get frustrating seeing the spouse who is hurting but also is home all day with more financial freedom than the spouse who's going out and working for hours a day for less than. And with me being the woman who's bringing in less, it hurts my feelings, but doesn't squash my ego. I think that for a man it can be worse. Especially in such a financially patriarchal society as Mexico.

I don't say any of this to defend or justify you or him, just to give you a breathing space while you read this and to maybe help you breathe, calm down and realize that none of this is intentional. Not what your husband's doing. Not the <please, can I call them stupid?> candidates in the US or the <can I call *them* stupid?> electorate of whom I am one. None of it is meant to hurt you.

I think when my husband starts with the royal *we*, he means it much like Mearsault means it - as a joining through choice of words. If I'm feeling playful, I'll laugh with him. If I'm in a twist, I'll fuss about him and that mouse in his pocket! He never knows which mood he's going to get until after he's spoken! Not HIS fault. So, I try to mellow out my responses. Now, even if I don't feel like laughing, I don't fuss. I just smile and say something like, 'I hope you and that mouse in your pocket can handle less sugar!'. He can smile at that, so can I. No fight. That's the part I've been liking the most lately. That's the part I wish for you very soon. At lease a break in all the fighting and fussing and squabbling. More peaceful days than not. More rest than weariness. More love than aggravation.