My brain is overwhelmed with this

[Three Roses]

BIG HUGS, DANAUS

[meursault]

Danaus:
No worries!  You're going through your own stuff and that's hard too.  But I really need compassion from people.  This is a place I come hoping to find that understanding.  Since you say you have a history with your comments being perceived as lacking compassion, can you just not comment on what I say in the future?  I found a lot of what you said implicitly very demeaning.  I don't mean I'm not reading what you write in various threads or anything, but I'd rather you not comment on my situations and difficulties.

Thanks,

Meursault

[Kizzie]

Sorry for my insensitivity and bad math. Two months ago I was complaining about my shrink when he told me I was sick, I had a disease and medicine was not going to cure me. Now I'm going through SSRI withdrawal and griping about that in another thread. In both instances everybody here has been very supportive. I should have followed their example. You're not the first to bring me up on charges of a lack of compassion. If only there was a pill I could take for that. I don't enjoy stepping on toes. I'm just unskilled.   

Folks, as difficult as these situations are we can learn from them. Danaus, I applaud you for apologizing and having the awareness that you may need to choose your words more carefully and watch your tone in some of your post.  Most of us grew up in homes where people spoke to us in less than positive ways and we had to take it. Here we can talk about our feelings and set boundaries as you have done Meursault and in a clear, firm but respectful manner. 

Part of recovering entails bumps in the road such as this one, what counts is what we do about it in the end.  Apologizing, taking responsibility, setting boundaries - all recovery oriented imo so maybe that's what you can both take away from this. 

My two cents FWIW.

[meursault]

Well, I had therapy today.

I was in a bit of a state throughout, dissociating, shaking, crying.  I kind of feel like crying now even, when I'm thinking how I asked, very desperately and panicky: "What's so bad about me that people are allowed to hurt me and I'm wrong for having a problem with it?"  The father part of me was there sporadically.  I think I left "the boys" to fend for themselves a bit much, I'm afraid.

Anyhow, I am going to go back and try.  I told her I don't know if I can trust her again, but I'll try.  I have a hard time knowing what I feel or think yet, though.  I think the fact she wasn't putting me down or freaking out on me just seems like enough of a relief from a woman that I can't accurately appraise what I think yet, and I'll be dealing with this for a while before I really know.

She was pretty emphatic that she screwed up.  She said she didn't realize how important it was to me until this week and she thought more about it.  She said she screwed up and should have dealt with this after the first email, but was worried about hurting me because I'm so easy to hurt.  She said she realized what she did actually caused more hurt than anything else.  I think that's as close to an answer as I'll get, so I will have to sit with it and feel out what I feel.  She basically said she messed up and made a mistake because she's human, and there wasn't any excuse, since I was actually telling her what I needed, but she wasn't hearing it, when she should have since that's her role and she's supposed to be the one responsible for that aspect of therapy.

There was some of it that descended into argument, which I had no interest in and just shut down, but I think she was pretty forthright.  There was some defensiveness on her part.  She was at some conference last week, and she asserted a few times how she is very empathic and understanding and a good therapist, and how many of the other Ts at the conference were clueless.  That came up after I had mentioned that I went for a coffee with an old high school friend who is a therapist and was one of my Ts instructors for some course, and how my old friend recommended finding a new T based off of something she had said to me.  The comment was how she said I'm suicidal for attention and now I can't talk to her if I'm suicidal, so my old friend said she'd never say that to a client and I should find another T.  T said she didn't mean it that way, and I had one interpretation because of the trauma from my Mom (hence irrational?), she had another, and if anyone else listened, they would have yet another.  Isn't that sort of saying there is no truth in interpreting comments as abusive or invalidating?  Sort of "I'm not being abusive, that's just your perception!"

Anyhow, just writing this, I don't want to go back now.  I'm bouncing all over.  And she was saying she messed up because she's a "people pleaser".  That was fundamentally her reason for not dealing with this properly.  Isn't that essentially saying "I hurt you because I'm a nice person."?   Is that not a bad thing to say?  Isn't that: "I hurt you because I care"?  I'm feeling pretty confused there.  I know my hyper-vigilance and expectation of attack are ridiculously high now, so I think my interpretations are pretty unforgiving, which is probably a bit unfair (probably true with Danaus here as well).  Can I trust enough now to relax that trauma response?

Anyhow, I guess this is me beginning to think about what happened today...  I'm pretty muddled.

Meursault

[radical]

Meursault you're my hero!

You did great.  You've got this.

I'm sorry you went through this, but you know what?  sometimes it is so important to discover how strong and resilient and wise we can be,even from the inside of a truckload of trauma.

Kudos my friend.  This was a tough one and you did yourself proud.

[Three Roses]

You did great!!

I think I'd definitely think about finding another one, if that's feasible. It's hard to say, not being there to read body language/vocal inflection, but a few of those comments sound way off base to me.

[meursault]

Thanks!  I was feeling kind of giddy after it was done.  I think I was maybe proud of myself for (somewhat) handling it, too.  I can't sleep tonight now, it's all stressing me out.  I think I need a heuristic to apply to my life:  If I need another therapist to talk about what's happening in therapy, it's time to move on.  I'm such a worrier and I'm not prone to rash decisions usually, so I'm still having a hard time committing to leaving.  I really want to talk it out with another therapist!  I suppose since it's hours later and I don't feel I should go back, I know what to do.  I'm just scared to commit to it in case it's a mistake and I'm just doing something self destructive.

Meursault

[Dutch Uncle]

The way you talk about it, the way you share your experiences, the way you self-reflect on what is happening... I honestly belief that when you make a decision to move on, grounded in all that, it cannot be a mistake.

If I need another therapist to talk about what's happening in therapy, it's time to move on.

[meursault]

Thanks, Dutch Uncle.  I appreciate the comment!  I've been mulling this all day, and wrote a goodbye letter.  I'm still uncertain.  I just think I'm willing to work through this if this is exactly the kind of repair work that will help me get better.  Is resolving this, and then healing from it the sort of thing that my damaged attachment needs to do?  Damned.  I totally need another therapist to work this out!  I'd really appreciate your input, Sanmagic, if you have anything you'd like to mention!

Meursault

[Dutch Uncle]

I'm still uncertain.  I just think I'm willing to work through this if this is exactly the kind of repair work that will help me get better.  Is resolving this, and then healing from it the sort of thing that my damaged attachment needs to do?

I may read this the wrong way, but are you thinking that it's perhaps better to stay with her, while you don't feel safe with her, feel she is inattentive and have other unpleasant feelings relating to her? That this would be an opportunity to work with her through feeling unsafe (in general), inattentiveness and other 'issues' you might have in general?

[meursault]

When you put it that way.....it doesn't make sense.

I am pretty confused.  My last therapist was awesome, and she told me that a lot of what actually helps healing in rherapy is working through "repair" with the therapist.  Of course, with her, I would tell her something, and then spend a week in terror and panic, expecting to come back and finding her full or rage and ridicule and dismissiveness.  I would come back, though, and she would still be caring and accepting.  It's possible I'm equating two things I shouldn't.  I often felt unsafe with her, but she never did anything to make me feel that way.  I often felt like she didn't care, but that was never indicated by any of her actions.  I was learning my expectations were wrong.

I guess with her, I was working through feeling unsafe, even though I was safe, but with the current therapist I'm wondering if I should work through it even though I actually think I am unsafe.  I want to stop, and that feels right, but I'm basically afraid that this is missing what the old tehrapist thinks is prime territory for healing.  I don't feel comfortable with her responses, though.  I maybe did the healing part:  asserting how it hurt me, defining boundaries, challenging mistreatment etc.  Maybe that's all the good I can get out of it, since her response wasn't adding much past that.  I've learned my expectations were not wrong.

Meursault

[radical]

You've got the answers inside of you.

Whatever they are, it's about trusting yourself now.

[Dutch Uncle]

I want to stop, and that feels right, but I'm basically afraid that this is missing what the old tehrapist thinks is prime territory for healing.  I don't feel comfortable with her responses, though.  I maybe did the healing part:  asserting how it hurt me, defining boundaries, challenging mistreatment etc.  Maybe that's all the good I can get out of it, since her response wasn't adding much past that.  I've learned my expectations were not wrong.

I'd say that may well be a valid assessment.
I have very little experience with therapy, but I think in any case there's always room for a 'break' or a period of 'taking it easy'. It's not a race. Well, not a sprint in any case.
And it's probably fine to switch 'coaches' (i.e. therapists) now and then.
The psychologists I did see never got to even giving me a diagnosis, but the talks I did have did provide me with something, even if it wasn't much and I was left to fend for myself once more. And so I moved on and got here. 

If it's any comfort to you: I will first need to work through my TherapistMom with a therapist before I can work with a therapist on the other stuff... Though working through the therapy I received from TherapistMom is probably the major issue anyway.

In this section there are a few more threads on 'dealing with therapy/therapists", perhaps you'll find some experiences you can relate to there. And there is also a thread called I need therapy just to go to therapy by some other members. Perhaps you'll find that useful.

Good luck, take your time and I wish you well.

Dutch.

[sanmagic7]

hey, meursault, i heard you!

from everything you said, i agree with others to trust yourself on this one.  i've heard too many alarm bells.  if a therapist messes up, s/he messes up, will acknowledge it, be accountable for it, apologize, and let you know that it won't happen again.  that's what any healthy person in any healthy relationship would do.  there would be no excuses (i'm a people pleaser), no putting you on the defensive, no trying to make you see their side of the situation.   it's as simple as i screwed up, i'm sorry, i won't let it happen again.

i think a lot of your confusion is because she said confusing things to you.  she didn't want to deal with the email issue because she was afraid of hurting you, then realized that she hurt you more by not dealing with it?  well, to me, that's plain old gobbledy-gook.  she didn't realize it was so important to you?  a good therapist realizes that everything a client brings up in session is important - everything a client says is a message to the therapist.  everything a client does or doesn't do is a message to the therapist.  a good therapist is an interpreter of human behavior, a translator of human language. 

and a good therapist chooses words, intonations, body language and everything else that goes into conveying a message clearly to the client so that said client will not misinterpret what s/he is saying.  a good therapist will also often convey the message different ways using different words, examples, metaphors, etc.   the t  will also often ask if the client understands, and have the client repeat back what that understanding is in the client's mind.  the idea of her telling you that everyone has their own interpretation, that that's not what she meant means, to me, that she didn't do her job correctly.  she is the one who must know what message she wants to get across, and then do everything possible to make sure the client receives that exact message.  that's the t's job.

it sounds like her issues have gotten in the way of being able to do what you needed done for you.  and what was that 'suicidal for attention' statement about?  or that she didn't want you to talk to her if you were suicidal? (that's rhetorical).  that just doesn't make any sense to me.  i've never heard such a phrase before, and i hope never to hear it again! 

as far as therapeutic repair goes, your example with your other t denoted your own inaccurate projections, thoughts, beliefs, and worries that were repaired through the experience of repeatedly going to see that therapist and finding out that what was in your mind was untrue.  you were able to repair yourself because both the therapist and the therapeutic relationship were strong and righteous.  it was your thought processes that needed repairing.  your t remained constant in her acceptance of and caring about you, which enable you to repair what was maladjusted.

in this case, it's the therapist who needs the repair done, and that's not up to you to do, mainly because you can't.  it isn't in your power.  there is an inherent imbalance of power in the therapeutic relationship where the t has more power than the client.  a good t takes that power and uses it for the good of the client.  it doesn't work the other way around, because the client doesn't have the power to do the same for the t.  if a t is attempting to give that kind of power to a client, to help him/her with personal problems, that's just wrong.  so, no, there is no therapeutic repair work to be done here by you.

in fact, meursault, you've done some mighty fine repair work on yourself in spite of your t!  congrats on that!  personally, i think this t is someone you don't need, is someone who has dropped the ball when it came to putting your best interests first, and someone you can walk away from without another thought.  if you think a letter of explanation is important for you, yourself, that's one thing.  you owe her no explanations because it sounds like you gave her plenty in your last session.  you can simply cancel your next appointment and look for someone else.  you're clean and clear, as far as i can see.

and, just one last awwww, meursault - thanks so much for asking for my input.  i'm smiling with appreciation and the feeling of being honored by you.  i'm happy if this helped you in any way.  i think you're doing really good.  well done!

[meursault]

Good to hear what you think, Sanmagic...

I think it's actually obvious what to do, but I am so used to believing I'm wrong about everything, I'm scared to.  I'm eventually going to be able to go back to the old awesome therapist as well, and I was really wanting to make her proud of how I was actively working on getting help and stuff!!!  Looking at it, I kept this to myself trying to find some understanding of it for a month and a half.  Then I told her, it has been a subject matter for every session since, and it was over a month before I sent her what I wrote originally to start this topic.  I notice that only when I indicate I am likely going to leave, does she finally confess to messing up.

A month ago, I even said:  "Imagine if you call someone, and they say hello, then set down the phone on the table as you go and tell them all sorts of personal and important stuff, and then you only discover that they did that by an offhand comment they make months later.  That's what you did."  She is saying she never understood until I sent the post that started this thread.  I don't see how that's possible.

I think you're right.  Leaving is more therapeutic to me than staying.    It really sucks, because when she is in session, she really seems enthusiastic and has quite a bit of insight.  Really, more than anything, I think it's mostly that I've been grateful she didn't fly into a rage at me or ridicule me when I told her about my Mom.

I suppose I just have no belief she wants to hear anything I say or feel anymore.  Just the fact that she is an attractive woman was providing some good experience and exposure.  Hey, an attractive woman was listening to my feelings and not attacking me, it was awesome.  I just think it will damage me going forward now.

It's kind of screwed up that I've basically spent the last month/month and a half paying her to try to get her to understand how she hurt me and treated me badly.  Probably $750.  And her solution going forward is to have the regular 1.5 hour session at $150, and schedule in a weekly hour at $100 just for reading anything I send.  $250 a week!  And I am undoubtedly going to be working through this for months!  So what would I be looking at?  All the fear and degradation and self-loathing, plus paying her four or five thousand dollars, because she didn't do me the courtesy of reading what I sent, when she indicated it wasn't a problem.  And now constantly on guard for more signs I'm not safe and can't trust her.

God, I feel dumb!  Lol...

Thinking about it, if I had that job, and clients were sending me stuff like I did... an occasional page or so about their thoughts and feelings, I think I would be interested and curious to find out more about them and how I could help.  She had given me a printout of attachment stuff that had thought bubbles with a cartoon baby reaching for its Mom.  One of the thoughts was "I need you to delight in me."  I have no illusions of my actual importance to her, but I think that's something we all need from therapy to some degree.

I am going in for one last session.  It will be good.  Now the father part has made a decision, the little boys in me don't have to worry!  This has had me messed up for quite a while.  I wish she was just a generally terrible therapist, as this would have been easy!

Thanks again Sanmagic!  And that's for all the support from everyone else.  It really helps to talk this stuff out!

Meursault