That's not so bad, right? Wife2's journey to understanding - and yes - triggers

[Three Roses]

  I'm sorry you feel like your day was derailed. Hugs to you!

[Wife#2]

Thank you both, Dutch Uncle & Three Roses! Those hugs did help make my day better.

I'm guessing DS didn't have that great a day either. He got home and told his Dad that I'd said no computer time after his sassy mouth this morning. I forgot to tell my H this. I got a call from H, verifying and asking why I didn't call with this important tidbit BEFORE DS got home.

No answer except I really didn't want to talk about it. It was a busy day all day at work, I've been feeling overwhelmed often during the day. I should have called, but I didn't. At least DS didn't want more trouble with me, so he was honest.

I wonder if H will do anything WITH DS, or just send him to his room so HE won't have to deal with DS?

I'll be headed home soon, so shall find out before long.

Thank you again for those hugs. I think I'm going to need the friendship of them to envelope me tonight!

[sanmagic7]

hey,

sorry i didn't get here sooner.  somehow i missed this.  but, i'm glad i found my way here.  just want to add my support, plus a few thoughts.

i hope that when you did the funeral for mrs. gem, that you were able to include the guilt.  it deserves to be laid to rest as well.

all those questions about your worth as a mom, a person, a wife - i find nothing in you and what you're reporting to be ashamed of.  i believe you're doing the best you can. 

having said that, and meaning it, your decision to stay or leave has got to be with you.  i am also concerned about the effect of your husband's treatment on your young son.  mental/emotional health issues is no excuse for abuse.   you can't fix it for your son, can't make right the wrong your hub is doing.   abuse is abuse, and as long as your hub is not doing what he needs to do to change his attitudes and behaviors, the abuse will simply continue to pile up on itself, crushing whoever is beneath it.

you know this from your own experience.  your dad continued with his abuse, and it crushed you.  you are beginning to clear the rubble and put yourself back together.  your husband continues abusing you, and it makes it that much more difficult for you to find your way to a safe, sane path, for both you and your son.

i've read here that both you and your hub suffer from c-ptsd.  that's heartbreaking in itself.  i've also read about how you talk to your son, spend time with him, are gentle and caring with him.  in effect, you're breaking the cycle of how you were treated as a child.  kudos to you - that's not an easy thing to do.  i know that from experience.

if a parent's job is to protect his/her child, what is your hub doing to actively put that protection into play?  if he has bpd, is he on meds for stabilization?  is he in therapy?  is he trying to work on this situation with you?  is he attempting to make things right with your son after threatening him with bodily harm?   i'm just not seeing too much positive effort on his part.  on the other hand, you are doing a lot to protect your son at the same time you are making excuses for his dad not to do the same.   is that fair to anyone?

i was an excuse-maker, so i know how this works.  now i know that anyone i'm in a relationship with deserves the right to experience the work it takes to make things different.  i didn't allow others that opportunity and experience.  i shortchanged them by taking care of everything myself. 

perhaps it's scary for you to break this relationship off with him because it's still scarier for you to be without him and his abuse than it is to be in a calm, caring, loving environment.  what would that seem like to you?  is it something you're striving for?  or is the abuse, the chaos, the confusion, the frustration, the anger, all the negativity in your household still something you want to hang onto, want to keep in your life and in the life of your son.  you have your reasons.  no judgments here.  when you're ready.

i'm not looking for answers to these questions, but am only posting them as points to ponder.  his back and forth actions, being nice one minute, a jerk the next, is a manipulation, like someone else said.  it's a very real part of the cycle of abuse - the abuse happens, threats and apologies, there's a honeymoon period, the tension begins building, and eventually the abuse happens again. the cycle has come full circle.

it sounds like you are wringing your hands more often lately, getting overwhelmed.  you know what that means.  when you take the step and send him and the whiner out the door (yes, anyone living in someone else's house does not complain, but works their schedule around the owner's  - you're dead on with that one.  and, i'll add my vote to not putting your hub's name on the deed.), we'll be here for you.  trust your gut - you already know the answers.

[Wife#2]

San,

Yes, I was hiding. You know I usually answer quicker during the work mornings. I read your post, was glad to read your post, but still crawled back into my head and slammed the drawbridge shut for a while. The more right someone outside myself is, the more likely this is to happen. And you were dead-on with everything you said.

I feel frozen in self-doubt, fear of the unknown, a willingness to tolerate what I can understand rather than do the right thing - because I don't know what will happen. I know control is an illusion, but in the home with H, I feel somewhat in control. If/when I leave him, I won't know what to expect or how to handle it when it does happen.

I rely currently on H to be a warm body adult to watch DS after school, or days when school is out, or when DS is sick and couldn't go to day-care anyway. I rely on him to cook dinner on my work days. I rely on his help keeping the house up (little that he does do is a help to a degree). I rely on him to arrange repair men, meet with them, make sure the work gets done. Often, I rely on his help to pay for these things. So, for as much as I know that I should leave and that DS and I would be better without H around daily, I worry and imagine all the worst things happening with no help to deal with it. I worry that I won't make good decisions and that DS will pay even more for my bad choices than he's already paying. I cop-out and choose the devil I know than the life I don't.

[sanmagic7]

hey, wife2,

you can take it easy on yourself, you know.  you are struggling with one of the most difficult decisions i know of, and one of the saddest.  i don't doubt that when you and your hub got married, everything was sunshine and lollipops.

the changes come over time, slowly, sometimes without us even realizing it.  we become comfortable in what is, often denying the reality because, too often, we don't want to admit we were wrong or that we ignored the signs.  so, we scamper around to make do, trying to make the insane seem sane.  been there, done that with 2 hubs.  i can totally relate.

i didn't leave either marriage until i was, for all practical purposes, pushed out.  the behaviors had gotten to be so consistently neg. that i couldn't deny what was happening anymore, couldn't stand to stay with him, and became more miserable at the thought of staying than of the thought of taking that giant leap of faith into the frightening unknown.

i have no doubt that you'll get to that point sooner or later.  it may be messy until you find your sea legs, but it will eventually smooth out.  in the meantime, please be gentle with yourself.  you're working so hard to make sense out of the senseless, to keep your recovery moving forward, and to provide the best home possible for your son.  i understand your hesitation.  i really do. 

from what i've gotten to know about you, you are a strong (see above), determined (ditto), resourceful, and courageous woman.  you may not see it, but you've recognized these qualities in me.  it's said that others are mirrors for what is truly within ourselves - that's why we can see these qualities in others, because we have them already.

i have faith in you.  you'll find your way in your own time.  whether it be to stay in or leave the relationship, you have my support.  i don't live your life, and won't try to.  it's yours to do with as you see best.  standing right beside you.

[Wife#2]

Thank you so much, San! I do consider you a friend and value what you say. The kind words nearly brought me to happy, grateful tears.

[sanmagic7]

you deserve them - both the kind words and happy grateful tears. 

[Wife#2]

Inching closer.

It was a small thing. Really, stupidly small. But, it stung and it P***ED me off. We've gone through some struggles with the house and the plumbing lately. H is full of blaming, but also helping to get it fixed. I could care less that the accidental action of our DS8 CAUSED the clog. What I cared about was the words H chose as this process went on and on and on.... nightmare.

First, there was the cussing of MY house - hadn't faced that one in at least a month! Only cussing MY house when something goes wrong. Like the mobile home he had would NEVER have problems if we'd have stayed there.

Next was acting like a big martyr about being the one to call the plumber and set up the appointment. Which *I* would pay for, but through the joint account so he could access the funds. After I left home to the Mega box store at 11:30 at night to get supplies he requested, which did no good we found out later. $50 I could have used to pay for the plumber.

Next, acting like he was the only one stressed out over the whole event. Blaming DS for causing the whole string of mishaps that followed the call to the plumber (tech # 1 broke toilet and left, tech # 2 admitted tech 1 was a problem, but still had to put down new toilet - forgot to tighten one nut, tech 3 first visit, fixed that no problem, tech 3 next visit had to replace aged valve in bathroom - it had seen more action in three days than in three years prior). But, when I mention that *I* was pretty stressed out as it was MY house, I was at work as these people came over, H obviously couldn't see the problems and they kept mounting up, along with the bill from the plumbing company, H acted like I was trying to HOG his need for attention.

I let him know I'm stressed out. I still massage HIS feet last night (they were burning and aching). Afterwards, he lets me know he expects sex with these two questions asked at different times. 'Are we ok?' and 'I'm going to bed, you staying up?'

That's it. That is all the love, consideration, tenderness, support, romance and kindness I got. 'Thanks for rubbing my feet. Are you coming to bed or staying up?'

In front of him, after I rubbed his feet, I began rubbing my own. He was content with that. He didn't even offer to help, get me a towel, nothing. Even after I dropped the HUGE hint of 'I know, it does feel great when someone else rubs your feet for you'

I'm in a pi**y mood, I know. But it was just too much again last night. Do for me, it's all about me, MY pain, My angst is what matters. whatever you're suffering, it's less than me because I'm the man and men have to handle stuff so take a goody powder for your pain, rub your own stinking feet, take a shower and get to bed before too late because it's my night and I say I deserve sex.

It was hard to not spit at him when he said he loved me AFTER his pleasures in bed. He might not have liked the answer if he'd chosen THEN to ask if we were ok. Instead, he asked BEFORE getting all my attentions and love and kindness.

No, he doesn't owe it to me to do things for me in return for the nice things I do for him. I understand that. But, D***. He could have at least offered SOMETHING to let me know *I* matter, too! Even just saying, yeah, I know, honey, this has been a stressful week for both of us, hasn't it? Nope - all about HIS stress and HIS nerves and HIS pain and HIS money (not all his, but when he's like this, I have to pick my battles) and HIS frustration with MY son and MY house and MY old pipes.

I'm not liking the division here.

[Wife#2]

I'm going through something that I don't know how it's going to turn out. I don't even know if anything will come of it. But, I need to expel this thought and see what happens.

****** HERE THERE BE TRIGGERS AND TMI  (RAPE, LADY BIOLOGY) ******

GOD, I hate even typing that word. To know that it happened to me, more than once, just crushes my spirit in some ways. I've already talked about one of the incidents - when my husband anally raped me before we were even married.

I had been raped once before. I may have written about that, I don't remember right now. Short story is: I had a crush on a co-worker. We went out as part of a larger group of coworkers. He drove me home. When I walked him to the door instead of giving in to his advances (I was on my period), he refused to leave, walking me back to my room. After he raped me, he laughed at me and told me that he'd just given me AIDS. Fortunately, he was wrong on that score.

I didn't prosecute that man, though I should have. We continued working at the same place until I could escape about 4 months later. He was my primary reason for fleeing - the job, the city, the state even.

When my husband and I were dating, I told him this story, including the part where I didn't seek prosecution. I wonder, and I don't even want to type this, if that isn't why he felt he COULD rape me? And think he'd get away with it. I'd allowed another man to rape me (allowed because I didn't prosecute) and that man didn't even want a relationship with me. But, H wanted to marry me! And wouldn't everything be ok within marriage? With him so willing to marry me (I'd already refused his proposals as too quick) surely I would understand that it was just his passion that got the best of him!

And I did let him get away with it. Because I didn't prosecute. I didn't even stay away from him. He raped me and I married him two months later. And all the promises he'd made before marriage were broken afterward because his 'needs' were so strong. And, nearly 12 years later we're still married.

How could I not see this before? I had my own place to go- I was there when we met and I was there when I ran after the rape. Yes, it was lonely, but it was mine and NOT his.

Here is the thing - I was too embarrassed FOR him to tell his children WHY I left. To this day, they don't know what he did to me. They only know that DSD wrote a letter to me, H delivered it with his own tears and promises and I came back. And I've been finding excuses ever since to stay with him.

It just makes me shudder that he could use the knowledge of my prior rape and failure to report against me so cold-heartedly. I can't believe anybody would do that and decry their love for the victim. What kind of a monster did I marry? Am I still married to?

[sanmagic7]

o my dear friend,

i wish there were more i could do for you to ease this pain. there aren't enough words.   your strength and courage are admirable and inspiring.

we do make choices, don't we, not all of them in our own best interest.  as you said in the post before, you are inching forward.  and inches count.  keep going, keep writing, and you will keep sorting it out.  it will happen.  it's already begun.  big hug to you, and know that i'm hangin' right beside you.

[radical]

I'm so sorry.  I wish I had better words to express it.

[mourningdove]

I'm so sorry.  I wish I had better words to express it.

This.

[movementforthebetter]

It's a truly frightening experience to start fully understandung the complexities of rape, especially when the perpatrator is your intimate partner. I don't know if it's a conscious thought process that leads men to sexual violence or not. But certainly in my own hindsight there were signals I gave out and I was groomed to "accept" it based on my FOO's influence on my confidence and ability to express myself. Then later grooming from partners so that for years I didn't even understand I was raped.

You are fully aware what happened was rape, and I cannot imagine how hard it is to do the work you are doing within your relationship and still caring for your children. My admiration of your strength is huge, and I hope you can get a feeling of how courageous you are for facing your truths. You are reclaiming your power in doing so. Big hugs. 

[Wife#2]

Don't be too proud of me, gang. I also did what I usually do when given a chance to be honest and open and straightforward or go along to get along. This weekend, I completely chickened out and defaulted into pleasant, accommodating Wife#2.

*** Trigger alert - sexual relations and emotional neglect ***

And he even asked the direct question - have I been considering getting a divorce again. I lied and said no.

The thing is.... NO! Let me stop right there before I go making more excuses as to why I won't tell him the truth and finally, finally end this thing.

I did answer his direct question that he gets sex so rarely because it's just sex. There is no love, no romance, no affection and no intimacy. And I don't care to just screw a man, even if he is my husband. He nodded, acted as if he was absorbing this for the first time, though I've explained this at least a dozen times in a dozen years.

Then, later, as usual, he asked bluntly, 'Are we going to do anything tonight?' When I hesitated, because I'm so sick of this emotionless sex request, and because I genuinely don't feel very good, he says, 'Well, a blow job or something. Anything.' I remind him that I'm still sick and that the medicine doesn't 'fix' everything overnight.

My problem - I won't be genuine.

Thought - 'Screw you, you **! If THAT is YOUR idea of romance, intimacy and/or showing ME love to get ME into the mood, you failed miserably. After a dozen years of this **, I think I have a RIGHT to be considering divorcing your lazy **! And NO, there will be NO sex tonight or any other night because you STILL don't know how to treat me right!'

Said - 'I'm still hurting in my lower back and down there. Not as bad as before, but I do still hurt.'
H reply: 'Have you taken anything for it?'
Me: Somewhat sputtering, because this is so opposite of sympathy or empathy, 'I've taken the prescription, but nothing else'
H: 'Well, if you haven't taken anything for it, that's YOUR fault (he's not kidding or teasing at all).' Tosses box of aspirin powders at me. 'Here you go, or would you rather have an ibuprofen?'
Me: Taking a powder out, not ready to take it that instant, 'This will do. Geesh.'
H: 'Don't complain if you're not going to do something about it.'

AND I CAVED. AS I ALWAYS DO. I actually felt ASHAMED that I was still hurting! I felt ASHAMED that, later on, when he got his, he REALIZED that I was hurting and asked if I was hurting, I answered, 'Yes, but it'll be ok.' AND HE KEPT GOING. AND I LET HIM. And now I really AM hurting, because I wasn't healed and he's stressing me out and he has no idea because whenever he asks directly, I choke and don't tell the whole truth. I won't bother to write a letter, he won't read it. I won't bother to send an email, he deletes anything he wasn't told was coming. And he won't read letters from ME.

I could hit things I'm so angry, but as much at myself for NOT defending my boundaries as at him for being the <expletive> who puts me into these positions!

Why couldn't I send DS8 out with DSS24 (or at least tried) and finally told H the truth. I have no passion left for him. I love him, but it's become that kind of love where you care as a human being what happens and is NOTHING like the EROS  love two spouses should feel for each other.

I think I just had a revelation. I fell for his passion. I thought it was a passion for life. It was really just anger. Lots and lots of anger. I also saw the anger and was scared of that, but I thought that was different than the passion. I was wrong.

He has no passion for people. I do believe he loves, and loves deeply. But, he can't work up passion for anyone. He shuts down if it feels too intimate. Until he has already got what he was after, then he is VERY loving, VERY gentle. But, not until he's sure he's going to get or has already got his reward.

That theory proved true yet again last night. And I was too chicken mess to do anything, say anything about it. I just lay there and pretended to go to sleep. And felt angry at myself and angry at him. And wished that the situation would fix itself so I wouldn't have to do the work. But, I need to do the work.

So, not so brave, not so strong, not so smart after all, huh?

Miles to go and less time today than yesterday.....

[mourningdove]

I'm so sorry for the predicament you are in. It is heartbreaking. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Your husband, on the other hand, really really does.

I think it takes bravery, strength, and intelligence to sort all this out, and you are doing that. You are on the right track.