Are these Red Flags????

[Sienna]

Just writing again. I have know one to tell and no comfort.
Trigger warning

When I'm talking in therapy, "this is so self absorbed" comes to mind.
I struggle to tell her things but, can with some things, because I know I'll be more upset about not doing so later if I don't.
Sometimes I feel guilty for talking - like today.

During the sesh I thought that-
I want to know how she is - I want to hear about her world and not talk so much about mine.
Maybe it's avoidance,
It's weird staying in your own world by talking about stuff from your own world in therapy.
Maybe I want to fill my head with other stuff if there is no urgent problem- to escape myself.

I hate feeling guilty and bad afterwards. It feels restricting and like I should just crawl into a hole and make myself invisible wiith that shame.

After sesh sometimes I just go about the motions - my head in another place . I go to cafe to pee and shop if I need to but nothing too stressful,
I'm in my own world.

A person I know from volunteering said hi to me after Therspy in town on my way home.
I heard  someone call me but I couldn't hear correctly if they have called my name and because of  my vision problem I could not see where the person calling me was.
She said that I was in my own world and I told her that I just come out of an appointment.
I didnt tell her it was therapy.
However, when I got back home I realised that she might not have known that i didnt see her when i heard my name, so maybe thats why i appeared like i was in a dream world.
Theres so much people dont know about me, including my visual impairment which i was made to feel very ashamed about as a child, so i hide it when i can, its just her- another trigger.

She asked how I was doing - really nice, but it's a question in which I freeze up and don't know how to answer .
She asked where I was living but I can tell her Im at a refuge and she asked where all my stuff was and I told her it's a friends house. (the only one friend i have who i appreciate a lot)
She wanted to know when my parents were and i just said up north.
She asked if I was staying here and I said yes
She said it must be hard going for a break up and have nowhere to live and having to sort out somewhere new to live.
She said I'm just getting on with it  and I think she thought that it was amazing and strong of me to be getting on with it
The thing that really got to me is that she said it's good that have such supportive friends
This is not true but I couldn't tell her that
I have lots all friends due to narc X.

People just throw out all sorts of statements and expect them to be true for me in a very generalised way
I really want to tell her that I'm living in a refuge to tell her what my partner had done to me and I want to tell her that he has ruined it with me with my friends (who were not supportive anyway)  and I don't have them any more.  I never had them anyway. just now, i cant even go round to theirs for a break from the refuge or from emotional pain.

But it would've been too long and complicated to explain and I couldn't deal with the fact that she might not believe me even though I understand why she  might find that hard to believe.
I worried that she thinks that I am the one problem that I made my ex so happy that I am the narcissist, especially as it doesnt seem like i am grieving the break up- which I'm not, due to dissociation that just automatically kicks in every time people leave.

This might not have been true -  I don't believe anything that My X said anymore.
But he said that before he broke up with me, this lady i saw today in town,
said to him that he seem so much more happier that day -
and that was when we haven't been talking for a while.

I thought for ages in my head until I thought about it today that maybe she thinks that I made my ex really really unhappy and i worry she thinks I'm too miserable and that i was dragging him down.
-especially after seeing me after the session today in a daze and probably not looking the happiest ive ever looked.

But maybe she was commenting to my ex but he seemed happier and maybe she hadn't thought that it was to do with me. maybe the comment was purely about him, if in fact, she said that. X could have said that the day he broke up with me, because he wanted to bring me down.

I don't have supportive parents or friends and I have no choice but to do this on my own
So people say well-meaning things but they really hurt and at the time I just think, oh no yet another question that I can I can't answer truthfully and yet another statement that stabs me in my heart like a knife -not to sound too dramatic.

Underneath the numbness I think I feel anger and sadness at having to do all of this on my own. I have no help or support not even a emotional support which is the most important thing.
Maybe I'm just going about the world and everyone else thinks that I do have support and I'm fine, when reality is is that I'm not I'm struggling and I'm at times very lonely.

I wish that there was a way that I could sort of tell the truth and i wish that others would not make statements such as- you have supportive friends, you'll be fine- they DONT KNOW.  So how dare they assume.
People dont think that thats not the case for everyone, unless they've experienced otherwise. But its annoying and makes me feel like i have to go along with their fake naritive- its fake for me- as what stye are saying is not true.

I just feel like I talk too much in the session and I feel bad for being so open about events that happened to me.
It's so embarrassing for me to talk about anything sexual and I don't know why it's so hard to sit there and talk even when I imagine in my head before I go to the session I really frustrates me
But when I talked with a little emotional about things that didn't happen that could be possible indicators of what we are going to it seems silly and she might think that I'm crazy for  bringing it to her and talking about it

About this thing in T we are trying to figure out, i realised in session today, that telling her the bits i do remember which might point to something that might have happened in the past-
she probably wont tell me what she thinks- its up to me to figure it out.
So why am i reading her the list of memories i wrote?
Maybe i just have to bear what i wrote in mind and keep it to myself for me to figure out.
I got the impression that she was tired today, and i dont know if my feeling that she was bored, is my intuition or not.
I think I'm just frustrated cos i want answers and i want to know the truth, though i might regret wanting that if i find out.
Maybe that's why am feeling a bit bummed out.
I feel that I could have used the session better and discussed things that happened this week instead.

It makes me feel better posting about things like this instead of sitting with  it on my own so thanks for reading.

Edited this and properly this time!
just gonna add- i dont think she is familiar with narcissistic abouse. I mentioned that i think my boundary problems are to do with my narc mother, and mentioned narc abuse-
and she just said *Thats a different type of abuse*
and i was thinking, yeah, i know, and what I'm saying, is that i thin that my boundaries are bad due to that, not the other thing we were talking about..becawuse I'm not sure it happened.
I dont want her to underestimate the power that narcissistic abuse on a person, and how it destroys the *victims* boundaries.

I dont think she knows i have been narcissistically abused - by not just my mother, but by three other people since then, in adulthood, maybe four.
I thought, there is nothing to talk about, i have no feelings about my X, I'm just disassociated abut it all, but, maybe if she was knowledgable about narc abuse-
she would talk about it with me??
i dont know. I feel it is being overlooked, and i dont know how to work on the loss from this relationship while i am so numb...
i know grief etc will come in time, so she cant force it. And i need to keep functioning to get housing sorted. But its like, this big life changing thing happened and we talked a little about it, but ..not that much. Maybe she's taking my lead.

Im so confused.

[radical]

I could have written most of what you wrote.  More 12 months ago.  Different circumstances, different place, different people, different personalities dealing with it all, but there is so much in this condition that is the same.  I find that comforting and I hope you can too.  It feels like we are, but we are not alone.

It's frustrating, not being able to have friends in real life that we can be open with about our lives.  What I've come to is that I'm not up to that yet anyway.  I'd be so afraid of blowing it, and being rejected.  It would distort everything.  And it takes a long time to build trust, get to know people, come to feel easy with them.  I think that's one of the reasons I've ended up in relationships with toxic people, because they appear to bypass the hard work, and there are almost instantaneous rewards that feel similar to being in relationships of genuine closeness, without going through the time, awkwardness, and work to get there.  Unfortunately, it's all just a very dangerous illusion.

A big issue for me has been accepting love, help support etc. from (healthy) others - how afraid it makes me feel, how unnatural.  I've had therapists who ended up telling me their problems.  Believe me, that is not therapy.  I don't blame them.  I can be so damn good at diverting attention away from myself.  Therapy is the one situation in life that really is all about you.  It has to be.  I've disciplined myself to keep a strict boundary and it's still hard, but it doesn't work any other way.  If your therapist can't manage the feelings your issues arouse in her, she shouldn't be in the job.  It's likely she can.  If she can't, you need to see someone else.  Can you repeatedly let the feelings go, not force them away, but watch them from a distance, knowing they are just feelings not reality?  Give your therapist the chance to prove you can trust her to be there for you and look after her own problems, or worst case scenario, find she isn't and look elsewhere?  It's a no-mans-land being unable to trust and unable to allow yourself to find out one way or another.

Anyway, thinking of you Sienna.  Again, I'm off for a walk.  I don't really fancy it because it's bloody cold and it looks like it's about to rain and maybe snow, which is why I need to get out while I still can.

Hugs.

[Sienna]

Hey radical,

My..I could have written most of what you wrote. 
I am so sorry this happened to you as well. Hugs, 
Yes, no matter what the name of the condition, or as i like to call it, the *trauma response*, they are very similar.
Im sorry if your friends left you (it sounds like they did)
This abuse is vicious and cruel and carries on after the relationship has ended.

Oh god yes, I would be so afraid of blowing it too and being left.
To me, it is easier when you are with, say, self absorbed others, who always talk about themselves.
I dont feel i have to try as hard. And if i hurt someones feelings or mess up, it doesnt matter, cos they've already ignored me, and or, hurt my feelings.

Toxic people-
they appear to bypass the hard work, and there are almost instantaneous rewards that feel similar to being in relationships of genuine closeness, without going through the time, awkwardness, and work to get there. 
That is so true. My X had me in bed immediately.

Im sorry you had therapists who ended up telling you their problems. Not good.
I take the attention away from myself too. Its automatic. People are like, how are you, and I'm like, I'm fine thanks, how are you? what have you been up to?

I don't blame them.  I can be so damn good at diverting attention away from myself. 
Yes, i see what you are saying. I think that a sign of a good therapist, is one who knows what you are doing, and who can stop it from happening.

Therapy is the one situation in life that really is all about you.  It has to be.  I've disciplined myself to keep a strict boundary and it's still hard, but it doesn't work any other way.  If your therapist can't manage the feelings your issues arouse in her, she shouldn't be in the job.  It's likely she can.  If she can't, you need to see someone else.  Can you repeatedly let the feelings go, not force them away, but watch them from a distance, knowing they are just feelings not reality? 
So great that you are reminding yourself of the boundaries.
And thank you for your suggestion. I felt the feelings. I had a few little tears.

Thank you for thinking of me.
How was your walk? is it winter where you are right now in this globe we live on?
Its summer here in the uk.

Hugs.

[Sienna]

San magic7
Thanks. How are you doing?

Do you mind if i ask how things are going for you, and with your funerals?
I hope that you can do the purging with your therapist. It would be nice i think, to have someone to share that moment with. The moment when you are taking a step, to move forward. The moment when you have completed grieving, and angering, over who and what you have lost.

Does your body feel lighter, now that the poison has been released?
My back is so sore right now. Its just so painful and I am dying for a massage, its just money, and I'm afraid of going. I always worry that they will never be good enough, or long enough.

as far as my anger goes, most of the time it's been the emotion beneath others.  it's been the hidden emotion for me, and was usually covered up by sadness.  being sad was very easy for me to feel, but being angry was not.  now i'm finally getting in touch with my anger, and my sadness is leaving me.  i'd cry at every sweet, kind, loving thing i'd see or hear about.  with my funerals, and my inner child work, i'm sorting thru that sadness, releasing the anger that's been trapped forever, and i'm not so weepy all the time.  and that feels great!
That is so great to hear!
It makes sense, because underneath anger, is sadness and grief. so getting rid of your anger would release sadness...and you might cry at a lot of things, but then eventually, maybe the tears would lessen.
im not sure if that is happening to me since being at the refuge, and having flashbacks when this little boy is crying.  It seems that you get used to it, and i wonder if I'm just disaodociatedly used to it, but maybe i did get some feelings out of me through crying.

Im so glad your T is careful to check in with you about your partner.
I hope everything is going ok with you and your hubby.

so, my life is going really well.  i'm feeling a positive momentum, a shift of some sort in the past week, that was noticeable in a positive way for me.  dang, at last!


you'll find exactly the right amount of courage that you need at the time you need it.
Thank you. I will be waiting for this to happen, and I'm sure that when it does I will remember you saying this. I feel that this has already patly happened, as ive needed a lot of courage lately. I worry I'm just disassociated however due to X leaving and that its not real courage.

[Sienna]

Just had another session with T.
Sometimes i don't like keeping things to myself, but i don't share, so thats why i write here.
Nothing wrong. everything's great with sesh and her.

Because of the limited time, it seems quite clinical to me.
I go in with a list of stuff from the week i want to discuss, but maybe in doing that, i feel I'm missing out on the relationship thing.
It is all about me. And therapy is for me.
Maybe i want to feel more of a connection...like i did before, but maybe i only feel this *conneciton* (which could just be in my head), in times of crisis, when it feels that she is here and that she is helping to *save me*.
She helps all the time though, and today.

Maybe I'm just numb. I have been thinking a lot lately about how I'm numb.
I feel that my responses to others pain is lacking in something.
I think I'm realising how much i freeze. I cant think quickly enough to say something and even though its not my fault, maybe its normal that i don't always feel heart rendering pain when hearing about others mis fortune.

I wanted to tell her about the text from my dad, as i told her about narc mums message (although, on second thought, i didnt even get to the end of that).
But she said that time was up, (end of sesh) and i know that it must be an emotional flashback,
because i know that its not her fault that sessions have to end, and i know that my feeling isn't fitting the circumstance.
It suddenly popped into my head, this mantra that is repeated over and over about everyone in the world, and it was,
*She doesnt care, she doesnt care about me that much, she doesnt care that i couldnt go trough dads text*.
Its like a feeling of disappointment, and I'm left hanging, and often after sessions, i don't know what to do with myself. I don't want to go back to normal routine. I just want to stay there with her.
Thats an emotional flashback right??
I know its illogical, yet these feelings pop up from know where.

It happened with the narc, but she was more abrupt. We were talking and she suddenly got up and said, right, enough, i cant talk about any more.
I went upstairs and exploded in hysterical crying and wanted to self injure.
I would have if she hadn't have heard me and came up.
Its like, an emotional abandonment reminder perhaps?
(She even said once that she enjoys sessions with me, finds me interesting, and that if she could have longer with me she would.
Just wanted to write that. )
Decided to treat myself to a starbucks drink after the sesh.
Thanks for listening.

[Danaus plexippus]

I used to bring a list of things to T. Workers in the mental hygiene industry generally do not appreciate clients bringing in lists of issues to be discussed. The only list they care about is your list of meds. Like you, I require memory prompts. I go over my lists while waiting for my appointment. I'll pick one word from each issue to write on my cheat sheet leaving space for notes as the session goes on. Keep track of the passage of time. When the T tries to sidetrack you, talk over her. She already thinks your unhinged, who cares if she thinks your rude. Why not practice being rude to some of the people at the "Refuge." Be sure to smile when you practice rudeness. That will keep them guessing. You need some kind of protection kiddo!

[Sienna]

Hey Danaus

Maybe my message didnt convoy what i meant.
The narcissist lady abruptly got up and said enough.
I think a nerve was hit even though she continued the convo, i didnt pressure her.
that wasnt T who said that so abruptly
She just said gently that time is up, and she is always gentle in the way she says it.

She does interject- T that is- she never talks over me, and I'm thinking, times ticking...but i know we have to discuss back and forth...and i hope that she is not wrong to help that way. its not too much either.
she lets me do the talking- as she should.

what makes you think that T already thinks I'm unhinged?
i was looking at boundaries and trust ing my intuition today. If i need to be rude i will try, if the point doesnt get across.
i hope to put up healthy walls.
thanks . i hope your ok. your def not alone in needing the memory prompts. i go blank when I'm talking even with the prompts so i def need them.

[Danaus plexippus]

You are right to remind me not to engage in mind reading. Perhaps its just me that gets that vibe off all workers in the mental hygiene industry. I go to group T tomorrow. Time to pick the key words that will jog my memory.

[sanmagic7]

therapy is so personal, but it is absolutely your time.  that's what you're paying for, to have time to vent, explore, problem-solve, realize, express emotions, all in the context of a safe place with a supportive person.  feeling guilty about taking that time for you is something that a lot of us go through, but, from personal experience, it gets easier with practice.  i hope you stay with it, sienna, hang tough, keep going.  these lapses of forward momentum (if that's what it feels like) are, i think, normal parts of the process.  we go back and forth, up and down, sometimes sideways, sometimes stuck. 

i'm on therapeutic hiatus for the summer.  it's just too hot here in my little desert town, so i probably won't be back to see my therapist until sometime in oct.  until then, i'm still doing my funerals (the other day, i held a funeral for the childhood i needed but didn't have.  i didn't have narc parents, but they just weren't able to give me what i needed - they simply didn't know, they gave me what they could in the way they could, but i needed something different.  so, i had a funeral, wrote all the things that came to mind about my childhood and what i had missed, especially emotionally.  it was a very emotional funeral, but i was able to release a lot of sadness, made some realizations, and was able to write about those as well.  it was very cleansing for me, and i'll keep doing these while on my hiatus.  they are therapeutic in their own right.

meanwhile, i'm also still working with my massage/pressure point lady to release the emotions in my body.  i've discovered that i've held a lot of fear inside because i just wasn't 'allowed' to feel afraid while dealing with my daughter, ex-husband, and that terrible therapist.  it was quite a shock to me, quite a revolutionary explosion of feeling.  and, of all places, i'd been holding it in my feet!  like, i'd pushed the fear down so far in order not to notice it or let it hinder me from what i'd had to do to try to make an impossible situation possible to live in.  so, progress continues, even if in unorthodox ways.

sienna, above all, may i suggest that you continue to be kind, gentle, and patient with yourself.  this is tough stuff.  it sounds like you are being able to differentiate between your narc's words of rejection and your therapist's words of time boundaries being reached.  two very different things, and i hope you give yourself credit for recognizing the difference.  small steps, perhaps, but important nonetheless.  you are not alone.  we're still here, both with you and for you.  hugs to you.

[sanmagic7]

danaus,

it sounds like you've had some truly neg. experiences with therapists/counselors and such in the mental health domain.   i'm really sorry to hear that, but i can relate.  one of my narcs was a therapist, and i was involved with her for 8 yrs. in various capacities, including client, best friend, and employee.  she was my first contact with therapy, and i'd believed every word she'd told me.  i'm much wiser now, and, in fact, am a therapist myself.  one of the greatest gifts i got from her is how NOT to be a therapist!!!  : )

i do sincerely hope you have a therapist now who is sincere, caring, and ethical.  there is so much more to us than our meds, our diagnoses, and our dysfunctional ways of thinking.  we do so much that is on point, and i think we sometimes forget to give ourselves credit for that.  things like holding down a job, driving a car, problem-solving (i think bringing memory notes is a wonderful idea!), buying groceries, getting dressed - all the little things that we do to continue on with life in the best way we can.  and, best of all, thinking enough of ourselves to ask for help, to share ourselves with others, to respond to others in a caring way.  those are all magnificent qualities, and i think too often we take that kind of stuff for granted.  but, i do believe the best of us is what continues to fight for our right to have a good, healthy, happy life.  perseverance, determination, intelligence, courage - these are all qualities that we contain that keep us moving forward.  keep going!  i think you're doing just fine. 

[Sienna]

Hey Sanmagic7

Thanks a lot for your really nice post. Im sorry if its late, i just havent checked here for a while.
Im so glad you let me know how you are doing. I hope you didnt mind me asking

I am staying with it. I don't want to ever leave her, and i don't want to stop therapy.
Sometimes i don't feel guilty.
I like how you put it into that context- that it is something that we all struggle with- taking time for ourselves. Of course!! I didnt see it like that, but now I'm thinking that its obvious, os thanks for that.

I really hope that your therapeutic hiatus goes well for you and that the break does you good.
Its pretty hot in the uk here now too, but I'm sure its not as hot as where you are.

It sounds like you are going deeper with grieving.
Narc parents or not, parents are incredibly damaging to their children when they do not parent as they should.

so, i had a funeral, wrote all the things that came to mind about my childhood and what i had missed, especially emotionally.  it was a very emotional funeral, but i was able to release a lot of sadness, made some realizations, and was able to write about those as well.  it was very cleansing for me, and i'll keep doing these while on my hiatus.  they are therapeutic in their own right.
Well, thats amazing. Its sounds like you are doing so well with doing this. Do you mind if i ask, if , after your funerals, is that it for you? as in, is your grieving over? Are your funerals what you do at the end as a way of letting go after a long time of grieving?

About your fear- Woah! How interesting. How did it feel to release the fear? Fearful?

Thank you for being so kind and for suggesting that i try to be kind and patient etc with myself.
I think i needed to hear that, as i have forgotten that lately and have been being hard on myself.
oh, and, i honestly never took the session ending and her telling me that, to mean anything other than what it was- and i know that it is an emotional flashback, this feeling that she doesnt care.
i always question how much as i am her client and its not an outside relationship...
but yes...i think i was just trying to explain to myself by writing it on here, that i felt that way when eh narc lady abruptly ended the convo, so i was trying to find patterns...but- maybe my feelings about narc lady ending it that time were also present time emotions... as she was a narc.
I just thought she wasnt a narc at the time (didnt even know what one was)..and thought that most people wouldn't react how i reacted...and maybe i reacted twice as strongly because it also reminded me of my narc mother i now realise.

Shoot, i forgot to write- that, i have all these thoughts about what T thinks of me etc. that i wrote here and i wrote about how i feel embarrassed and awful when i come out of sessions because i talked in the session, but when i explain this to her as i thought it was important to bring up, she's so great about it and i wonder why on earth i was worrying.
I know why and I'm not invalidating myself...but its as though i need her to tell me what she is thinking when I'm lost in feeling so terrible about myself and plagued with thoughts about what she thinks of me after the session.
I hope that i will never worry again after some of the amazingly nice things she said to me last sesh.
I am realising that a lot of my reality is false, as it is based on what i *think* people think of me in my own head. I live in my head, and go about my days in the way that i think i should...now the way i want to...in terms of myself being me and being free..because I'm convinced that people think bad things about me.

small steps, perhaps, but important nonetheless.  you are not alone.  we're still here, both with you and for you. hugs to you.

Hugs to you too and take care. I admire you a lot for doing the work you are doing. 

[Sienna]

Also, Sanmagic7,
I really like your reply to Danaus's post and i hope its not wrong of me to write that, as it was to Danaus.
I would agree Danaus, that you may have had some terrible experience's with therapists.
I wasnt in the right place to think of that after reading your post...and i read it after a T appointment so i wasnt in the best place.
But yes, i hope you can find or have found someone who is a proper therapist to you too.

[Sienna]

I need to leave my T.

[Three Roses]

Uh oh, sienna! What happened? Ate you alright? BIG HUGS!

[Sienna]

Thanks ThreeRoses for asking abs for being here. I will explain when o can type it out on my laptop tomorrow.
I drank after last session and ignored my feelings but tonight  with out intending to I found done stuff on YouTube and realise that I have to leave.
Don't know if I'll really go through with it next week but I think I need to.  She always tells me to pay attention to my intuition and feelings.
I can't cry and I don't know if I'll be ok. But I always am.
Are you okay Three Rises?