Mom went to the hospital last night

[NarcKiddo]

Maybe she'll see me in heaven? I have no answer for that one.

Well, that statement of hers just says it all, doesn't it? It does to me, anyway. All the previous stuff about errands and you being busy could just about be put down to old age, forgetfulness, whatever. But to me, see you in heaven [maybe], is manipulative crap.

I'm glad you are thinking this through in terms of what is right for you.

[Gently]

Yeah, it is manipulative. Her tactics have always been so subtle, and I have been so finely tuned like a virtuoso's violin. I used to just perform my role so devotedly, believing all the time that it was love, or it might become the kind of love I craved.

Thanks for naming that so clearly. That's really helpful.

[Gently]

I saw my Mom today. My husband was there, my back up.

It's been months, since January.

It was fine.

I could feel myself beginning to fall into the void, the black hole of her needs and her sad life and the guilt that I had a happy one, a few different times.

I stopped myself by disengaging emotionally, looking at something else, saying nothing.

We were outside on purpose. It was a nice night, the first without wild fire smoke in the air in a few days.

I was unresponsive when she said things I didn't want more of, and only engaged with her when I liked what she was saying.

There were silences that I didn't fill.

She spun webs of neediness which I did not walk into.

One time I interrupted her and completely changed the subject. She was easily redirected.

My fears are that now that I've done this contact, it's a precedent setting act that means I have to do x, y, and z. That since she is bored, I need to give her something to do. That since she (fill in the blank), I have to (fill in the blank). That it's wrong for me to just leave her there with all of her feelings being like that.

I don't need to any of those things.

So much of my work during this time has been to develop resilience to my own internal impulses and compulsion to try to make her feel better, to fix her, to make her have a happier life. It doesn't work.

I had to be so guarded while I was with her. I could not be soft. I can't afford to be.

Compassion is a slippery slope towards the loss of my Self, with her.

I was kind and friendly.

I gave her the papers I intended to pass on. I did the business I meant to do, and I sat with her for a few minutes, and I didn't Fall In.

After, we got ice cream for the walk home.

A success. I know I will need to prepare myself for some internal backlash, and possibly an increase in contact from her.

We'll see how I manage in the next few days.

[dollyvee]

Hey Gently,

I'm reading your entry and well done (without sounding condescending I hope). I have been there too, and I know how hard it is to set that boundary. I wasn't able to do it without falling in and being sucked into it all, so I cut contact. It's so hard to recognize that you're not going to get the care from the people that you want it from most, and then still be expected to function around them.

I agree with NK that it was manipulative garbage what she said. I had often times heard over the three decades that my gm was going to die, that you'll miss me when I'm gone. And then you want to do everything for these people because there's no problems with the way your heart works.

Sending you support,
dolly

[Gently]

And then you want to do everything for these people because there's no problems with the way your heart works.

Sending you support,
dolly

Thank you, dolly.

Exactly! I walked away with a sense of genuine empathy for her, and some natural, kind impulses to offer a little here or there that would brighten things up for her. I used to do things like that, along with caregiving support. But it made things worse: her behaviours, and my Falling In.

You're absolutely right! There is nothing wrong with our kind hearts, and our kindness should be reciprocated by our parent and appreciated and it should make a positive difference. Heck, our kindness should be in response to theirs, and then reciprocated. When it's not, we have to make the hard choice to guard our kind hearts and save them for people who value them. Not easy for a kindhearted person to do, to withhold.

I am happy to report that, so far, I am functioning okay after the visit. My mind is easily occupied by other things that are in my immediate sphere, my own life. She called both my husband and myself that same night and left voice mail messages with more "information", but we did not respond to those. We also made no promises about a follow up visit.

My brother and his wife are on a different page from me regarding how we manage M. His life is chaotic and they are overloaded, yet they choose to hold to a value that a family member should be the one(s) to provide caregiving to M, even though she can very well afford to pay someone to help her with the things my brother and his wife are running around, scrambling to do for her themselves, making themselves crazy.

That is another pressure, the difference in our stances. They will not take the pressure off of themselves and require M to hire someone to help take the pressure off of themselves, yet they are run down with M's behaviour and needs as much as I was. But, it is their choice to make. I have made a different one. This difference is part of the reason M was able to refuse to accept the companion service that I had set up to replace me, because she still wanted her kids to do it and it was worth it to her to hold out and see if she could still manipulate "us". It worked, now she has my brother and his wife on the hook. She can hold out for a really long time.

[Gently]

A few days after the visit, I realized that I had been in a bit of a fog since. I was functioning okay, but I was definitely affected. There is a part of me that has an expectation that I "should" be able to get to a place where I will be able to see her and not be affected at all. A strange expectation to have inside of me. Good, I think, to realize that it's there. Of course I would be affected. Why else would I need to stay away from her for seven months?

There was a family event today with the extended family. My brother's grandson's birthday. M would likely be there, and she was. Within five minutes of walking through the door, my sister in law is telling me how my brother is close to having a nervous breakdown from having to deal with M. I'm saying: I know, yup, I get that, I know, yes. Because that's what happened to me, and that's why I am keeping my distance. I sat down briefly to say hello to M, but it was so loud in the house that I only managed to wave and mouth hello to her. I had to get outside into the back yard.

There were allergins in the house that required me to need to go outside the house. The house was absolutely packed with people, extended family of my nieces in laws, and friends. After about fifteen minutes, I knew I needed to leave. My nervous system was not tolerating the intensity of stimulation.

I felt so much better once I left their property and walked up the street. I felt very good about making that decision. I texted my niece and my brother and SIL later saying that I was sorry I had to leave, and that there was too much stimulation for my nervous system today. I felt good about that, too. I wonder if being honest about that might encourage them to consider their own threshold for tolerating stimulation, too. In the past I would have felt ashamed of not being "strong enough" to just power through those feelings in a situation like that. Or, I would be worried that they would judge me for not pushing through. Now, I'm proud of myself for being kind to myself, and for being honest about what I was experiencing.

I guess that's what is happening, now. I am building resilience to be able to do what is right for me without being tortured by fear and worry about what others will think of me. I no longer think it's a virtue to kill myself for the sake of other people's preferences, nor is it my responsibility to intervene when others make different decisions than I do and then suffer because of it. We are all free to choose.

I think I am beginning to feel and act more detached, emotionally. There is sadness with that, because I have to give up the fantasy that I could be close the way I have always longed to be with M. I feel bad for her. She is so old and small, now. I wish it could be different than it is.

It's still really hard. The pain is still there. I don't want to be callous, but I can't afford to be soft hearted. It's lonely, needing to keep an emotional distance. But at least I'm not getting hurt repeatedly.

I'm glad I made the efforts this week. I'm glad for what I discovered.

Nothing is fixed, nothing is perfect or even that good. It's really hard to deal with. But, it's getting better. I'm getting better, stronger. I'm better able to do what's right for me without crushing shame. That's good. That feels good.

 

[NarcKiddo]

Now, I'm proud of myself for being kind to myself, and for being honest about what I was experiencing.

I'm proud of you, too. It sounds such a little thing, such a normal thing. But it is a big thing. A huge thing, when you have spent your life doing otherwise.

Well done for getting through that visit with your M, too and not falling in. It's no surprise that you were in a bit of a fog after, and that you didn't notice that immediately. Again, when you have spent your whole life in some fog or another, how could one expect otherwise. I'm familiar with that part that says you should be able to be with her and not be affected.It can be a tough part to negotiate with. Well done for noticing it's there.

[dollyvee]

I walked away with a sense of genuine empathy for her, and some natural, kind impulses to offer a little here or there that would brighten things up for her.

For me, this was the difficult part - that I wanted to do those things to show love. I just had such a hard time understanding what the "love" was in return when I was told that I was "loved" yet what I felt, or understood love to be, was just suffocating and based around fulfilling someone else's needs, endlessly. If I didn't do those things, it was why don't you love me? What have I done, guilt, guilt, guilt, with no space for self-awareness, or accountability. So, I understand starting to go into that fog, or feeling the pull of being lonely and needing to keep that emotional distance.

It sounds like you're doing a good job of processing all this and noticing what is coming up for you.

Sending you support,
dolly

[Gently]

Now, I'm proud of myself for being kind to myself, and for being honest about what I was experiencing.

I'm proud of you, too. It sounds such a little thing, such a normal thing. But it is a big thing. A huge thing, when you have spent your life doing otherwise.

Well done for getting through that visit with your M, too and not falling in. It's no surprise that you were in a bit of a fog after, and that you didn't notice that immediately. Again, when you have spent your whole life in some fog or another, how could one expect otherwise. I'm familiar with that part that says you should be able to be with her and not be affected.It can be a tough part to negotiate with. Well done for noticing it's there.
[/quote]


Thank you 

[Gently]

Now, I'm proud of myself for being kind to myself, and for being honest about what I was experiencing.

I'm proud of you, too. It sounds such a little thing, such a normal thing. But it is a big thing. A huge thing, when you have spent your life doing otherwise.

Well done for getting through that visit with your M, too and not falling in. It's no surprise that you were in a bit of a fog after, and that you didn't notice that immediately. Again, when you have spent your whole life in some fog or another, how could one expect otherwise. I'm familiar with that part that says you should be able to be with her and not be affected.It can be a tough part to negotiate with. Well done for noticing it's there.

Thank you 
[/quote]

I totally messed up the quote function here!

[Gently]

I was told that I was "loved" yet what I felt, or understood love to be, was just suffocating and based around fulfilling someone else's needs, endlessly. If I didn't do those things, it was why don't you love me? What have I done, guilt, guilt, guilt, with no space for self-awareness, or accountability.

Oh My Goodness. It's like we have the same M. For three years now she's been saying to anyone who would listen to her: I don't know what I've done wrong, why won't she talk to me?" In spite of many very gentle and clear letters and emails explaining that I am going through very difficult and personal/emotional/mental health things and cannot support her right now. That after many other failed attempts to get her to understand my needs so we could cooperate with each other while I was trying to be her primary caregiver.

Fulfilling someone else's needs endlessly. Endlessly, it is endless. There is no "off" switch to her being one big gaping Need as soon as we show up, and there is no reciprocation. And that's the thing, there actually is no "off" switch for it. Nothing we do or don't do will ever change that.

She was going to cancer treatments in the year 2000, and I felt good about helping her by taking her to many of her treatments. I felt really good about myself when her birthday came around and I suggested that we plan her party (at my house) during an interval between chemo treatments when she would feel good enough to enjoy her dinner and dessert. We did that, it was good. Her actual birthday was a few days later.

On her actual birthday, I forgot to call her. I have never had a head for dates or anniversaries.

When I did talk to her, she said "I thought, since you were taking me to my treatments, that you loved me better now."

That crushed me. It scarred me. I was so triggered by that, that several months later on the same numbered date as her birth date I got confused and thought I'd forgotten her birthday again. I called her in a panic saying "Happy Birthday!"

I interpreted that as my tendency to "forget things" at the time. I know better now. I was a young mom with school aged children and an abusive husband at the time.

I didn't intend this to become another walk down memory lane. It's crazy how many stories like this there are. Memories that are reframed once you start getting out of the fog, out of the storm.

I am so grateful for this forum and for you folks.

I hope that one day I will have the bandwidth to be able to read others posts and offer support the way you all are doing for me.

Thank you 

[dollyvee]

or three years now she's been saying to anyone who would listen to her: I don't know what I've done wrong, why won't she talk to me?

I know and even if you tried to explain to her, as I did with my gm many times, that I don't feel supported, or it's like x when I try to talk to you about it, it's like it just bounces off, or it will only be taken as see what a bad person I am, and then all the guilt would transfer to me. I called it the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation in therapy, but at the time, I think I just numbed, or dissociated because it was just like quicksand.

When I did talk to her, she said "I thought, since you were taking me to my treatments, that you loved me better now."

I mean...what a thing to say. I've come to realize that this stuff happened over many, many years and it became second nature, or normal. For me, the adult stuff was easier to pick out because I had already started going to a certain extent, wait a minute - something is upsetting me, or isn't right. When I look back at the stuff that was said as a child, it's harder to pick out those things from the child's need that I needed them (there were three core NPDs in my family) for safety. This was very much my structure for a "loving" relationship.

Believe it or not, your posts are also helping me process a situation in my life where I am automatically going into that boundary-less mode, almost subconsciously, in order to appease someone, and now I am remembering/reflecting back on what happened and why I would be so willing to give up those boundaries in the first place.

Sending you support  and a hug if that's ok 

dolly
 
 

[Gently]

I know and even if you tried to explain to her, as I did with my gm many times, that I don't feel supported, or it's like x when I try to talk to you about it, it's like it just bounces off, or it will only be taken as see what a bad person I am, and then all the guilt would transfer to me. I called it the damned if you do, damned if you don't situation in therapy, but at the time, I think I just numbed, or dissociated because it was just like quicksand.

 

When I was in junior high school we must have been learning something about communication or maybe I saw a public service announcement on TV about communication because for some reason I felt that I had just got the key to how to solve "the problem" I was feeling at home. I remember going into the kitchen equipped with this new information, that I could just talk to my M, or maybe a way I could talk to her, and then we would be able to solve the problem together. When I did try to talk to her, it all went mushy like quicksand, yes, quicksand, nowhere to put your feet, it all started shifting and nothing made sense anymore.

When I went into therapy three or so years ago and wondered if I had ADHD, the therapist, uncharacteristically, gave a decided opinion that I definitely did NOT have ADHD, that I was able to very coherently string sentences together in a comprehensible theme.

Oh, dollyvee, we really do understand each other here, don't we?  Somehow it makes such a difference to hear other people's experiences and know we aren't loosing our minds. Well, maybe we had begun to loose our minds but we're here laying claim to them once and for all!

What else could we do but dissociate when there were no adults who could see, hear, understand or know us.

I read some of your IFS content from the beginning of your journal. What an amazing imagination you have! It was fascinating to read about the skilled way you were able to engage with it so quickly. I used it heavily at the beginning of my therapy as well, and still find it to be a very supportive framework for recovery.

Thank you for your support, and the hug. I send them back to you, as well. 

[dollyvee]

When I was in junior high school we must have been learning something about communication or maybe I saw a public service announcement on TV about communication because for some reason I felt that I had just got the key to how to solve "the problem" I was feeling at home. I remember going into the kitchen equipped with this new information, that I could just talk to my M, or maybe a way I could talk to her, and then we would be able to solve the problem together. When I did try to talk to her, it all went mushy like quicksand, yes, quicksand, nowhere to put your feet, it all started shifting and nothing made sense anymore.

I get this. I was just telling someone this week that I think my biggest failing is expecting that people will be reasonable. I still think that there's a way to talk things out, or I just need to explain myself better. Basically, with certain people I find that I am doing the work, or trying to make it work and not accepting the reality of what is actually being reciprocated from the other side. Well up until recently. I think I may be making some progress in this area.

I read some of your IFS content from the beginning of your journal. What an amazing imagination you have! It was fascinating to read about the skilled way you were able to engage with it so quickly. I used it heavily at the beginning of my therapy as well, and still find it to be a very supportive framework for recovery.

Thank you for reading my journal Gently. I had started IFS through reading the IFS experiences of others on here (snowdrop and Hope), and was intrigued. I will say that I don't think it's imagination as these things are real. Like you mentioned about ADHD, which I also looked into and think that I have as well as maybe being on the autistic spectrum, everyone's brain's work in different ways. IFS was the first thing to take me out of intellectualizing everything, and take me to the "other side" of an emotional experience. It wasn't something that I had learned how to preform, restrict, or act in a certain way - it was actually what was happening inside me, and I went with it no matter how far out it seemed. Looking back, I think IFS showed me things that were going on at the time that I didn't know how to comprehend. I started to learn after about how the mind structures itself, or what IFS might look like with dissociation for example, and then some of the parts started to make sense. I think that sometimes peeling back that structure, or "order" of the mind/what one knows that has kept one safe growing up, can be quite triggering.

It is comforting to hear others' experiences. I have been doing some reading on dark personalities recently (just a couple of articles from Karen Mitchell), but most people are inclined to believe someone when they are being told something out of courtesy, and that it's hard work to consider that someone might be lying and to find out why. I think that those of us who grew up around NPDs are conditioned differently and unfortunately experienced a different reality.

[Gently]

I still think that there's a way to talk things out, or I just need to explain myself better. Basically, with certain people I find that I am doing the work, or trying to make it work and not accepting the reality of what is actually being reciprocated from the other side. Well up until recently. I think I may be making some progress in this area.

Oh my gosh, yes. I've been getting pretty good at catching myself and choosing not to over-function in many of my relationships. It's amazing what happens when you start to change things and how people respond. You start to see how much you've been carrying the responsibility for maintaining relationships.

It's scary and there are disappointments because you thought they wanted the same things you do.

But, the freedom! And resentment drops away. Of course there is grief for what you didn't actually have. But eventually you find out what you really do have, and sometimes it's not nothing, it's just not the something you thought it was.