Therapy directly on a core/primal wound

[Blueberry]

Does anybody have the impression that they were eventually able to head directly to a core or primal traumatic wound with trauma therapy and process this a good distance, so that they don't feel as if they're constantly re-hitting that old thing?

My example is my core belief that I am bad through and through and I shouldn't exist. It comes up again and again. I've done lots of work on reducing its power over me plus lots of work on disproving it to myself, taken lots of concrete steps to show myself I do exist and I'm fine that way, heard tons of positive feedback including in therapeutic settings (where people feel/sense a lot plus don't usually lie for the sake of it), but that old FOO stuff sits pretty deep. I've been mentioning this in various ways in T since, let's see, 2002 or maybe even 2001. Not to moan or anything, but getting sick of coming back again and again to this, despite non-head-on ways of therapy, so as not to be overwhelmed etc. (For those on Mbr Journals, I've written there too but that info must please stay there).

I am not so much interested in what all else I could try in my spare time like journaling or etc etc (partially because I have done far more than I can list, some of which I don't even know what to call, don't know if it exists in the English-speaking world but was still helpful plus I am writing this on a Therapy board    ), I'm more interested in hearing if any of the more advanced in healing on the forum feel that they've made significant headway in tamping down this kind of pervasive false belief about themselves, that they believe came from traumatisation in childhood (including preverbal) or generational trauma? So that it doesn't keep re-surfacing?  And how they made that headway, with presumably a therapist - I need a therapist anyway. 

Please note: I'm somewhere on the OSDD/partial dissocation spectrum, have Parts, might well make a difference.

Can EMDR help in this kind of case, to 'get at the root' type thing? Some other trauma therapy type I've never heard of? Or does it have to be some form of Parts work, going thru each Part at a time? It probably has to be Parts work... I was just imagining: wouldn't it be nice, if I could work directly on banishing these types of feelings - I shouldn't exist, I'm so bad through and through I don't deserve a spot on this earth, but no, how would that work out when not every Part picks up on it...?  

Still, in case it did work out, maybe for somebody with fewer Parts or no Parts, could you write a bit about it? I'm guessing it wasn't over in one session... tho i wish for us all that it could be. And of course there could be other core beliefs/wounds too, there certainly are in my case.

I hope my question makes sense. If not, do get back to me, I'll try and explain better. Thanks

[Marcine]

Hi Blueberry,
I think I understand your question. (If I miss the mark, I apologize.)
I've been in active battle with negative self-concept for decades. Therapy has been a common thread as has been my own research. I can very much relate to feeling "sick of coming back again and again to this", as you wrote. It can feel grueling, lonely, and never-ending. Its roots definitely run old and deep.
I have experienced meaningful quieting over time of the howling worthlessness. I attribute this sense of internal progress to 2 core aspects.
1. Spending time being (not doing) in nature daily, even for just a few minutes. The wordless wonder of gazing at a tiny bug on a plant, the moon, breathing fresh air... focusing as much as I am able in the moment on experiencing the simple, profound beauty around me... feeling a special relaxation as a tiny spec in the vast cosmos... it's a feeling along the lines of "well, here I am, Here we all are, existing together, and it's ok. It's pretty amazing actually." It's the experience of it that has been healing for me. Hard to put in words. The more I open myself to it, the more alive and worth I feel.

2. I've slowly come to peace with the notion that healing/freedom is a process that has no singular finish line... and that I am ok with this truth. I spent all those years fighting so hard and believing if I did more, tried some new technique, then I'd get to that all-important place where the grass was greener and I'd finally "be ok". I can even chuckle ruefully at that, because I know now my worth and goodness have been with me all along, just buried and choked out. But not dead. I resuscitate and revive and re-seed the garden of myself, day by day, step by step. In whatever ways feel best to me.

And, Blueberry, your aliveness and determination reach me through your words. I send you friendship and good wishes

[sanmagic7]

blueberry, core wounds are the most difficult, absolutely.  i believe the reason they're so hard to not only get to but also to put to rest is partly because we may have had neural networks involved, which are always tricky to re-write, so to speak.  to me, core wounds come directly to us from parents, and kids tend to want to prove their parents are correct in their assessment - after all, they are our guardians, we rely on them for our very survival, and we don't believe they would lie to us.  in fact, they do, and reinforcing neg. beliefs about ourselves is one way in which they lie big time. 

but just like kids tend to think that anything that goes wrong w/ the adults in our lives - such as divorce, etc. - has to be our fault, or if one parent leaves, it must mean they didn't love us enough to want to stay, or we weren't good enough of a child, or we did something wrong so that's a big part of the reason they're leaving, our thinking and belief systems are extremely black and white, and we tend to take the burden of responsibility onto our own shoulders. 

if we're already carrying that sense of responsibility around, it doesn't take much to embed it into our brains/minds that whatever happens is our fault, and so we must be faulty as people.  it's not so much a matter of i made a mistake, but that i AM a mistake.  therefore, if i am a mistake, i'm worthless and i shouldn't be here, don't deserve to exist, and the world would be a better place for all if i wasn't around. something like that. and that's a tough one to disprove.

and maybe you've heard all this before, and i'm just repeating, and if it's not helpful, please ignore.

i have used emdr a lot, and it's helped a lot as well.  altho i didn't do parts work, per se, i can remember several instances where i imagined my little me being stuck, just before the goal line (american football analogy), not being able to move all the way across to reach the goal on my own - not being able to get to where i wanted to go consciously - and my T would suggest that adult me would show up, pick me up, and carry me across.  that has helped a lot.

having an adult version of me, with the power and strength the adult has that a child doesn't have, come to my rescue, get me to where i wanted and needed to go was a very powerful image for me.  there was also a lot of soothing of the child me, lots of love talk and encouragement, that kind of thing. i know i did it more than once, maybe for different causes, but it helped knowing i do have that strength in me that was taken from me by FOO when i was too young to know better, too young to cultivate it for myself.

it got me to know on a more conscious level that maybe i didn't have what i needed when i needed it as a kid, but i have it now, and i can rescue my little me in the present. i've also used Flash Technique (an emdr technique that helps override emotional overwhelm) when working with most anything that has an emotional attachment to it.  since i haven't had access to my emotions, this helped a lot to override the enormity (to me) of them.

lots of cleansing tears went along with that whole scenario, but i was able to chip away at some of those beliefs - especially, i'm not good enough the way i am and that i have to be perfect.  i feel much more confident about being me now, not very much invested in comparing myself to others negatively, and allowing myself to make mistakes w/o downing or drowning myself in self-pity and self-flagellation.

i hope this was helpful.  any more questions, feel free.  best to you with this piece, blueberry.  you deserve to have some peace of mind around this stuff.  it really gets old to have it pop up again and again.  love and hugs

[Blueberry]

Thank you both for your replies. Things are tough for other reasons atm but I will get back to you. 

[Blueberry]

And, Blueberry, your aliveness and determination reach me through your words. I send you friendship and good wishes

Thank you Marcine 

Your response (1) does miss the mark slightly, but otoh after having posted and before any responses came, I did re-read my post especially

Does anybody have the impression that they were eventually able to head directly to a core or primal traumatic wound with trauma therapy and process this a good distance, so that they don't feel as if they're constantly re-hitting that old thing?

and tell myself - "Wishful, magical thinking, so the answer is No." Then I got two thoughtful responses, from you and san, neither of which said "Forget it, BB" so that was a real bonus!

1. Spending time being (not doing) in nature daily, even for just a few minutes. The wordless wonder of gazing at a tiny bug on a plant, the moon, breathing fresh air... focusing as much as I am able in the moment on experiencing the simple, profound beauty around me... feeling a special relaxation as a tiny spec in the vast cosmos...

I used to do something similar very regularly - I wrote a Daily Joys journal on paper and most of my joy came from observing and/or being in nature, as well as being with my little pets. Of course, observing with all my senses, not just watching. I haven't managed to get back into it, maybe partially because my senses are dulled due to using food as a crutch again. But I'm not going down that road atm, no matter how much others may agree. Or how much better I might feel.

Of course at the time of my post, I was really looking for a quick-fix - this is the answer, let your t do this type of therapy with you (EMDR?), it will not cause you any distress, exhaustion or even make you have to work or practise and then you'll be right as rain, with a zest for life, and an ability to even want to get out of bed and make plans for the day, week... instead of having to work your way out of deep depression or even trauma-induced SI again. As in, does this ever end??

2. I've slowly come to peace with the notion that healing/freedom is a process that has no singular finish line... and that I am ok with this truth. I spent all those years fighting so hard and believing if I did more, tried some new technique, then I'd get to that all-important place where the grass was greener and I'd finally "be ok". I can even chuckle ruefully at that, because I know now my worth and goodness have been with me all along, just buried and choked out. But not dead. I resuscitate and revive and re-seed the garden of myself, day by day, step by step. In whatever ways feel best to me.

This sounds very wise. Especially the italicised bit (where I think I was and haven't been able to move on from...) speaks to me as a sort of precursor to getting to that place of wisdom. Whereas the bolded bit could be my next step to get back to, to work on for the next little step, but maybe it's OK to rage too a bit?? but then get back to the garden of myself. Just musing.

[Blueberry]

i hope this was helpful.  any more questions, feel free.  best to you with this piece, blueberry.  you deserve to have some peace of mind around this stuff.  it really gets old to have it pop up again and again. 

Thank you san, your whole post was/is helpful. I was really moved at the time too, since I'd already decided before your and Marcine's posts appeared that it was wishful thinking on my part and that of course there is no possibility to work directly on a core/primal wound. I was even thinking of writing similar myself as a response to my first post, then lo and behold, there were two responses to me!

altho i didn't do parts work, per se, i can remember several instances where i imagined my little me being stuck, just before the goal line (american football analogy), not being able to move all the way across to reach the goal on my own - not being able to get to where i wanted to go consciously - and my T would suggest that adult me would show up, pick me up, and carry me across.  that has helped a lot.

Sounds like parts work to me! Just not IFS, but there's somebody called Luise Reddemann who suggests that kind of action! Maybe your T read about her or came up with the idea on her own. Whichever, it worked for you 

I suppose I've been coming up against a lot of existential questions for over a year, which is not so surprising considering what has been going on - from having to go into complete early retirement myself to my parents going into care, plus another person important to me of that age with whom I was in normal contact also in care with dementia. So again, not so surprising that this old ingrained belief of "I shouldn't even exist" crops up. Parents getting old and going into care and/or dying has quite an effect on lots of people w/o trauma, so why not those with too? The "bad through and through" triggered in addition due to disagreement with those friends I was staying with (which I've written about elsewhere), but also triggers the "shouldn't exist" too (because I'm so bad). I'm not. I'm not bad. Good that I can write that in this moment.

My OT would be among the first to remind me that I no longer drop as far down and I come up a lot faster than when I first started going to him. The retreat next week should help me a lot with processing most of this stuff I've been ruminating on.

     to you san.
 

[NarcKiddo]

BB - you are not bad and I am glad to see that you have written it. 

This is a really interesting thread. I do not have direct experience so please forgive me if my comments are irrelevant or not particularly helpful but I do feel an urge to think on it a bit and am typing as the thoughts come.

The first thing I thought of was really a sort of philosophical question. The core wound belief may have essentially become our "self" to such an extent that if we do away with the core belief do we cease to exist? Here, I think parts could have much to offer. I don't think every part necessarily has the core wound. The part with the core wound is, I imagine (not having had parts therapy, so this is just my supposition from my own thought/experience) trying to persuade the other parts that the core wound is true and extant. A bit like the people who used to wander around wearing signs proclaiming "the end of the world is nigh". This is done in an effort to protect. But if we work on the basis that all parts are valid and important, then we don't want to destroy the part with this belief. Maybe we try to remove the belief - but if the part can no longer have that belief maybe that part can no longer exist? This is clearly not very hopeful in terms of achieving a cure.

However, an actual physical wound heals from the edges inward (and from the bottom up to protect the inside of the body). If we can gradually heal that way, by persuading all parts that have no need of the core belief to abandon it and accept they are safe, then we are eventually left with that one part that can't give it up. But if that one part knows the other parts are safe, and knows it is safe and has no obligation to warn other parts, could that injured part then rest quietly under the scabbed-over wound? A physical wound is fragile when healing or if somebody dislodges the scab. But when all that is left is a scar there is still a reminder of what was. The wound is, as it were, honoured and acknowledged, but as something that is from the past, and not part of now.

[sanmagic7]

while reading your response, NK, what came to mind was that the part holding that core belief can be given a new one, a true one to believe in.  i do not believe we cease to exist, even a part of us, if we are able to eliminate the neg. core belief.  instead, installing a healthier belief about ourselves, a truer belief, helps keep all parts functioning, perhaps even relying on each other for assistance in frightening situations.

i do believe it's like any other neg. belief system we're working on in our lives. replacing the neg. belief, no matter what it's about, with a more positive belief, whether it's thru realization, therapeutic intervention, or something just 'clicks' and we are able to see things differently - the end game is that the false narrative has changed, replaced by a reality, a truth.

as babies, we all know we deserve love and care, touch and help. that is our core belief system about ourselves as living beings. we do not judge ourselves as bad or good.  our belief systems were full of truth about ourselves that somehow got desecrated and destroyed/replaced by other beliefs that repeated what we heard or by how we were treated - that we are no good, we don't belong on this earth, we are not worthy of that basic care which we need to survive and thrive.

my opinions only.  please disregard if not helpful.  love and hugs

[asdis]

what came to mind was that the part holding that core belief can be given a new one, a true one to believe in.

Blueberry, this is what we've been (slowly) working on with our therapist when it comes to our core/primal wounds. It's been very slow-going, but we've had one (or two if you count the one in progress) alter/part be able to hold a new belief. Sabela, the alter that's been able to replace her core belief, has always been a protector, though before we worked on the wound it was kinda hard to call her that. She would take over whenever our autonomy/safety felt threatened and do what she needed to survive, because her core belief was that she "deserved" to be in those situations/that she was "made" for those situations. The core wound was believing those situations were normal, and that we were supposed to react/respond the way(s) Sabela did. Technically we're still working on this wound, but Sabela held it the strongest/is the most active of those who hold it. Her new belief is that she was "made" to help keep us alive and safe, and that she is one of the most capable of our alters when it comes to protecting our autonomy and safety. Sometimes she still slips into the old beliefs/struggles with the wound, but Sabela doesn't spiral as hard around them anymore and often can "snap out of it" to help other alters/parts regulate when they spiral around that wound. Seraphina's (another protector) also come back since we started working with Sabela on that, and we think that made a big difference on Sabela's capacity to help in this area.

We also have the same "I'm all bad and shouldn't exist" belief, and that one's definitely been harder to deal with. There are more of us who hold that belief in general, and current life circumstances make it a bit harder to deal in general. We haven't had anyone get fully past this one; the best we can do is feel neutrally about ourselves. But we think (for ourselves at least), that being able to feel neutral about existing has helped lessen the intensity of the wound. When everything's felt so bad for so long, just finding a middle ground tends to feel like a challenge. And it is, but so far it's been the only thing that's helped in this area.

[Blueberry]

These are all interesting responses to my post, san, NK and asdis. Lots to think about. I'm not even going to attempt a discussion response yet, need to let things sift a bit further thru my brain. 

[Marcine]

"maybe it's OK to rage too a bit??"

100%!
My preferred arrangement is to wop a fluffy blanket with my old badminton racquet, which makes a satisfying whistle through the air... arms sore and much relieved afterwards.
I say, let it flow

[Desert Flower]

Hey Blueberry and others,

Yes, that is the pivotal question isn't it? What if we could just heal that core wound and be done with it. Maybe it is wishful thinking. I do believe we will continue to have work to do, be it at different levels or layers, progressively more subtle as we go along. And we will be feeling better the further we go.

But on the other hand, I do think I've come a long way already, seeing where I was at and where I am now. And if you ask me which therapy specifically has helped me, well, there have been several. Like you, I do well when different approaches are combined in response to what comes up at a given moment.

Yes, EMDR worked amazingly for some big wounds I had. I couldn't have imagined it would work that well. I don't quite understand it but it has done a lot for reducing my overall anxiety.
This was combined with 'schema-therapy' that's used a lot in my country. It is sort of like Parts therapy, but not IFS so I'll get to that in your other thread.
- Trigger warning maybe -
And what also helped tremendously, certainly on the core wound I'd say, or on the part that most strongly carried the core belief, the part that was so scared it did not even dare move or make a sound, the part that I was so afraid to look at because she looked nearly dead to me, was 'imaginary or imagery rescripting'. What we did was, we went to the part, the T stepped into the picture as well and proceeded to give the part what it had actually needed at the time. That way, the original part was still there, but an alternative was put next to it that was happy, content, alive etc. If you would have told me this would work so well I would not have believed it, because we cannot change the real past or the way we felt can we, but actually the brain cannot distinguish between reality and fantasy all that well and the 'fantasy' is still there in my mind now and I can also choose to go back to that when I feel I need to. I carry that around too and it is helpful.

But what I think made the biggest change in my life regarding that core wound, I would say wasn't 'therapy' but it was a spiritual realisation (through a teacher that I have strong faith in) of "I am actually okay", I am a good person despite what I was made to feel. I do believe that now. And I believe you are too. If you want to hear about it, let me know.