New here and trying EMDR

[byways]

I'm having a problem with past memories ALL coming up when I see FOO. And I mean everything bad that's ever happened in my life, all of it, all at once. I am usually able to move out of this in a day or two or a week when I see FOO, if I don't talk about it. But when I think about it, study it, try to research it to figure out what happened or research PD's, talk about it, write about it, it makes me worse. This is what happened the last visit and I went into a real depression again for about 6 weeks.

I tried walking, visiting friends, trying to stay busy, but none of that was working and I couldn't concentrate. Then I found OOTF and did a lot of reading. When I was just sitting here staring at the computer because I couldn't think, I upgraded my cable to get new movies and that made my brain move and I started to improve.

I went to my CBT and talked to him about PTSD symptoms that I've had earlier in life, nightmares, being stuck in the past, recurrent thoughts and this big ball of bad that comes up all together and if there was some different kind of therapy that could work better. He suggested I make an appointment with a T who does EMDR.

Last night I went to my first session. I was able to go with the flow for maybe a third of the treatment and otherwise got stuck. She said I was trying too hard to make something happen and I thought I was supposed to stay on the same memories or time period throughout. Anyway, it didn't go that great and afterward we talked about that and how EMDR works and problems with my family. I told her that I would try again now that I understand how it works and have another appointment.

My concern is this: I had big hope that this would break something loose and get my brain to process this stuff so I don't have to spend the rest of my life in misery and I'm afraid that if it doesn't work, I will do just that. I really want to shuck the past.

I wanted to make comments on OOTF, but I can't divulge this kind of stuff online as some FOO seek this kind of thing out. I have one FOO member also doing a lot of internet research trying to diagnose another member (AND also trying to pin a PD label and traits on me that don't fit, which I guess is typical projection) and I'm pretty sure they BOTH have the SAME kinds of PD problems. I've been diagnosed with major depression, dysthymia, PTSD and anxiety at different times throughout adulthood, but never personality disorders.   

Wondering if anyone else has had EMDR and if it helped.

[Kizzie]

Hi Byways and Welcome to Out of the Storm - As the name of this site implies, CPTSD flashbacks can feel like a storm of overwhelming emotions. These are referred to as "emotional flashbacks" and differ from PTSD in that they are not visual (although you may have both types in a stressful situation).  This may be what you're experiencing when you are around your FOO and then for several weeks afterward when you feel somewhat foggy, depressed and unable to move out of it. 

We can't diagnose here as we're not trained professionals but what I would suggest is that you have a read through the thread  "So, What is CPTSD?" to see if any of it resonates and then post here again to let us know what you think.  You don't need to include any details which your FOO might use to identify you, generalities are fine. We can then guide you to some additional reading about responses to trauma such as dissociating, depression and so on., and to some resources for recovery.

EMDR is one tool for recovery although by all accounts it needs to be tailored to CPTSD; that is, the process used for PTSD may not be suitable for CPTSD as there are some major differences in the disorders (e.g., PTSD involves a single or series of short term traumatic incidents that typically result in visual flashbacks whereas CPTSD involves ongoing trauma such as growing up with PD FOO and flashbacks involve a melange of emotions connected to feeling a frightened and powerless child). There is a bit of reading about EMDR and its use with CPTSD here as well but it might be best if you begin by seeing if you do think you have CPTSD and then go from there.

Does that sound OK?

[byways]

Thanks Rain, I am finding that many peoples' posts here resonate with me too. It's crazy how similar my life has been.

Kizzie, I have both emotional and visual flashbacks. Both PTSD and CPTSD, sort of entangled.

First major abuse that I remember (very young age) was sexabuse by sibling and ended with a traumatic accident (not caused by my sib) where there was a lot of blood and involved stitches for me. Traumatic. Scared us both and the abuse ended. Before that I was having nightmares. Good that the abuse ended, but the threat of it didn't end until they left home.

Witnessed another traumatic event that involved death and had nightmares about that for about 4 years. (also witnessed many minor traumatic blood & guts animal type stuff because of rural living) I was diagnosed PTSD on a third major traumatic event unrelated to any FOO problems. All this occurred by the time I was mid twenties. Continued verbal abuse and bullying by various FOO members to date. Mid thirties, while M was making fun of me for being depressed, confessed to M that early abuse happened. M decided it wasn't true & I just made it up. That was my first NC with M & F.

My coping techniques: NC & LC off and on for life. FOO members acted abusive, I just wouldn't talk to them, would remove myself. I made a lot of noise in my 20's/30's telling them to stop it. Ignored. Invalidated. Blamed. Etc. Made it worse for me. More NC on my part.

More recently in life, spent about 15 yrs trying to 'rebuild' all these relationships, became enmeshed w/ one uNPD sib who ignores my boundaries and became dumping ground, which ended with out of control abuse(typical for this one) toward me. At this point, I decided that's ENOUGH. undiagnosed ? mother then made fun of me for being depressed about it. Natural consequence for that was me putting M on medium chill - didn't know there was a Name for that, but that's what I did. Went to Low contact w/ problem sib, then gave up several yrs later after M and uNPD sib tried to manipulate me (this after I told uNPD sib I would not tolerate them doing that) Now Very low contact with all siblings.

I won't go NC with parents now for various reasons, but when they are gone, will likely go NC with certain other FOO. Or maybe not, maybe it will just be LC and medium chill forever. Gossip has greatly affected (for the worse) relationships with extended family. As far as I'm concerned, I'm walking around WithOut a family. Very lonely at times, but I've built a good support system otherwise.

When I decided that's Enough, I started evaluating all the various therapy & T's I've had and my attempts to talk about all this throughout life. CBT is easy for me, I mean easy for me to tell my history, but no one really delved into the PTSD issues. Because of the recent CPTSD & depression over FOO which was too dark for me, I sought out the EMDR. I am soooo sick of the cycles of depression when I've made such great strides in the rest of my life and had such highs the last few years. Cannot tolerate meds anymore, may be Highly sensitive person. All types of meds mess me up, they are just too much. I've read that there's a medical test for this, and I wish it would become a mainstream accepted thing to try when patients complain about meds. A blood test can give doctors definitive reason to prescribe differently. Not that I think anymore that meds could 'fix' any of this. New T thinks she can help me with EMDR and thinks new stress may trigger early childhood abuse. Also thinks there may have been something before what I can remember.

The thing is, it really hasn't done anything for me to have an understanding about why PD's behave the way they do except to learn there are names for my coping mechanisms and that it was completely natural/normal way to handle it all. That's nice after decades of self preservation, but being guilted for it. But, understanding PD's doesn't really take away the pain. It still hurts that there's been so much unnecessary viciousness toward me, I'm still grieving. Learning about my own processes in CBT hasn't changed them. I'm hoping EMDR can help change that. I do believe I don't have to keep doing this depression forever. It is messing with the good mojo I'm building up.

Maybe eventually I'll take up reading suggested here, but I am getting triggered reading some posts here and wondering if my last depression could be deeper because I have reading since the last FOO event. It's hard to tell right now.

[Kizzie]

Kizzie, I have both emotional and visual flashbacks. Both PTSD and CPTSD, sort of entangled.

First major abuse that I remember (very young age) was sexabuse by sibling and ended with a traumatic accident (not caused by my sib) where there was a lot of blood and involved stitches for me. Traumatic. Scared us both and the abuse ended. Before that I was having nightmares. Good that the abuse ended, but the threat of it didn't end until they left home.

Witnessed another traumatic event that involved death and had nightmares about that for about 4 years. (also witnessed many minor traumatic blood & guts animal type stuff because of rural living) I was diagnosed PTSD on a third major traumatic event unrelated to any FOO problems. All this occurred by the time I was mid twenties. Continued verbal abuse and bullying by various FOO members to date. Mid thirties, while M was making fun of me for being depressed, confessed to M that early abuse happened. M decided it wasn't true & I just made it up. That was my first NC with M & F. 

OK I see where you would have both visual and emotional flashbacks as you had both single incident and ongoing trauma so EMDR will likely help.  And it may be that your T is trained in how to use EMDR to treat CPTSD too, I have seen that there are now courses for that on top of the training they receive for PTSD. EMDR certainly has a lot of research to back it up so I'll be interested in hearing how it goes in the next few sessions.   

The thing is, it really hasn't done anything for me to have an understanding about why PD's behave the way they do except to learn there are names for my coping mechanisms and that it was completely natural/normal way to handle it all. That's nice after decades of self preservation, but being guilted for it. But, understanding PD's doesn't really take away the pain. It still hurts that there's been so much unnecessary viciousness toward me, I'm still grieving.

I hear you. I think coming out of the FOG was half the "battle" for me and the other half is dealing with my CPTSD now.  OOTF got me part way and I'm hoping OOTS (and therapy) can get me the rest of the way.

Maybe eventually I'll take up reading suggested here, but I am getting triggered reading some posts here and wondering if my last depression could be deeper because I have reading since the last FOO event. It's hard to tell right now.

It's a lot to take in Byways and the everything I've read suggests we take our time in recovery and go at a pace that's comfortable for us. We'll be here whenever you're ready 

[JoannaSunshine]

Hi Byways, I am new to the group too. I'm glad we have both found our way here. I just wanted to say, that when I started counseling treatment for my CPTSD the T told me that it is normal for symptoms to get worse at first. If you are doing a lot of reading, research, trying new therapies and delving deeper into what is going on with you it is going to stir up a lot of feelings. Feelings that may have been hidden, or lying dormant for a long time. Take it slow, be gentle with yourself. Try not to be scared by feeling triggered, it's normal to have that reaction. It doesn't make it easier, but I think just focusing on good coping skills and continuing to find ways to heal yourself is key. At least that's what I keep telling myself! I struggle with using some not so healthy coping skills to deal with my symptoms and being triggered. That's what I'm trying to learn now, how do I cope without the dysfunctional coping mechanisms I have been using for years just to survive?
Good luck with the EMDR treatments, I hope it is successful for you. I am looking into trying EMDR myself currently.

[Kizzie]

Here are some EMDR links:

The EMDR Institute - comprehensive description of EMDR, how it works and list of research regarding its efficacy - http://www.emdr.com/faqs.html

Korn, D. (2009) "EMDR and the Treatment of Complex PTSD: A Review" - Available: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7RqPLN-WsmUJ:www.traumacenter.org/products/pdf_files/Korn_JEMDR_2009.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Huso, D. (2010),  "Treating Child Abuse Trauma With EMDR" Available: http://www.socialworktoday.com/archive/032210p20.shtml

Forgash, C. (2002). "Treating Complex Posttraumatic Stress Disorder with EMDR and Ego State Therapy" Available: http://www.advancededucationalproductions.com/publications-articles/treatingCPSD.htm

van der Hart, O., Nijenhuis, E. & Soloman, R. (2010). "Dissociation of the Personality in Complex Trauma-Related Disorders and EMDR: Theoretical Considerations." Available: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9vYmQoAiOhsJ:https://www.myptsd.com/c/gallery/-pdf/1-78.pdf+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca.

Interview with Bessel van der Kolk: "Restoring the Body - Yoga, EMDR and Treating Trauma" Available: http://www.onbeing.org/program/restoring-the-body-bessel-van-der-kolk-on-yoga-emdr-and-treating-trauma/5801