Finally here

[tryingtokeepmoving]

Hello, I was diagnosed with cptsd several years ago, emdr and cbt have helped relieve many of my bodily symptoms, I used to be easily triggered by loud sounds, anxiety turning into panic, occasionally thinking I hear my fathers voice yelling at me from the distance. But the memories are still there, and unfortunately the lessons he taught me, or conditioned me to have, well my whole person was formed around them.
A recent dramatic event has brought the bodily panic back in a way I haven't experienced in years. I try to practice mindfulness and observe it, be curious about its cause/trigger, I carry a bottle of essential oil to smell if the sensation becomes to much, in order to bring myself back into the present. I struggle with the symptoms but can't face their source. For the source is someone I care about doing something to themselves, and then asking me to help them. This dynamic awakened old wounds, and I realize I was not so much at peace as I was numb. Ignoring or doubting my emotions is so integral to my functioning, that to feel them so fully can be overwhelming. I suffer now with the fact that this person I care about, may have partially lied to me in order to get my attention, in order to feel the care I have for them.

I am angry with them for doing this to me, though I can't tell them this, I perceive them as too weak, or too vulnerable, to be held accountable. They seem to try to fight against the manipulative part of themselves, which endears me too them, I think "at least they're trying". But it only confuses me more. It reminds me of my father accusing me of using my tears as a way to manipulate him, and it reminds me of him actually using his tears to manipulate me. I am confused because this is a person I love and care about and want to support, but I also want to be true to myself and my feelings.

I know I can only take care of myself, I'm trying to reach out to others to strengthen my support system. But I wonder if this relationship is just another in a pattern of dysfunctional relationships I seem compelled to have or if I am just triggered by the dramatic event. I wonder if there's another layer of deeper trauma I must address with therapy, of core instances that are the basis for my understanding of relationships.

[Kizzie]

Hi and welcome to OOTS tryingtokeepmoving   

I am angry with them for doing this to me, though I can't tell them this, I perceive them as too weak, or too vulnerable, to be held accountable.

Perhaps they are more able to receive and deal with the truth in a respectful and gentle manner than you think?  Just my thoughts here but it might even be a step forward for both you and this person to have a more honest and open relationship, one in which you can both gently and respectfully talk about real feelings and not run away from them or each other? As I said, just my opinion but I think it's key in our relationships we try out honest connection with others because we never had that as survivors and need to learn how to do so.

[tryingtokeepmoving]

Thank you for your reply Kizzie.

"Perhaps they are more able to receive and deal with the truth in a respectful and gentle manner than you think?"

You're probably right, as I haven't even given them the chance to try.
Even with this post I have felt brain fog writing out my honest feelings, and felt panic thinking of someone scolding me in their reply. I think I have been so rattled by this crisis I have just been falling back into old patterns of self preservation that feel more safe and comfortable. I needed some outside perspective.

"one in which you can both gently and respectfully talk about real feelings and not run away from them or each other?"

Yes this is the type of relationship I want to have with my friends, but it is difficult for me sometimes to remember the healthy ways to relate to others as the ones I grew up with are so ingrained, and feel so much safer.

"As I said, just my opinion but I think it's key in our relationships we try out honest connection with others because we never had that as survivors and need to learn how to do so."

You're so right, It's like I have to keep reminding myself that not all people are abusive and dysfunctional like my family, that there are people who are safe to be open and honest with.

[Kizzie]

I should add that this may not be the case with this particular person and that you may need to give yourself some time to try this and be prepared for a less healthy response. If you're ready for that you can say at least I genuinely tried and it is them who are not ready. If that's the case maybe stepping away or at least back for a bit might send a signal they need to treat the relationship better.  Again, just my thoughts and of course you need to take the time and space you need to deal with this. 

[Blueberry]

Welcome to the forum, tryingtokeepmoving

I'm glad to read about how much progress you have made but sad that there's been a big trigger event recently.

Personally, I find it often really difficult to know if I need to work on something in therapy or do I need to confront something or somebody irl. Often I need a bit of therapeutic help in order to do the latter anyway. Or need help with the fall-out, which has often not been so good in my experience. But there are members on the forum who have had better experiences, I have read that sometimes here.

unfortunately the lessons he taught me, or conditioned me to have, well my whole person was formed around them

Sounds very familiar.

We do have a section on here called Recovery Letters https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?board=43.0 It's a good place to write what you might say to the person. These are mostly letters we won't actually send to the person but they have helped me in the past to sort out what I really want to say or write. Trying to write and not managing, e.g. because my mind goes blank, shows me that it's just too early for me to communicate, even if in my head it is quite clear what I want to say.

It's OK to take your time with these sorts of steps, or in fact any steps in healing.

I hope you can begin to feel the support of this forum
   

[Papa Coco]

Welcome to the forum Tryingtokeepmoving,

Your introduction is beautiful. There is so much confusion in our hearts and heads when we love the people who harmed us. You are right, that they were likely damaged also, but I think it's okay to put the credit and the blame on exactly where it originated from. They are responsible for their own healing from their abuse, and you are responsible for your healing from what they did to you. I'm not saying you need to hate them for what they did, but if you need to throw some dishes and scream their names when you're in the privacy of your own home, it won't hurt them. They'll never know you had to let out the rage. Your healing is your journey.

If the time ever comes for you to confront them, you'll know. My Dad was a covert narcissist. (That's basically someone who isn't cruel and trying to steal from victims, but who quietly believes they are the only important person alive). We don't quickly recognize it as narcissism because they can be quiet and non-threatening. But in the end, they were all about themselves only. Dad was physically the strongest human I've ever known, but at the same time, he had all 5 of his kids convinced that if we confronted him, he'd die. It was part of the narcissism. It was, in his case, part of his manipulative sympathy game that kept us obedient to him. I'm NOT saying that's the case in your story, but I do want to express that I remember being terrified that my problems would kill him, so I never confronted him. Ever.

In my opinion, you aren't required to move too fast through your healing, nor to take steps you aren't sure about--until the day comes that you become sure about them. Healing from CPTSD is a long journey and it's best taken at a comfortable pace. No need to share more than you want to share with anyone, until the time comes that you feel ready to share. I have embraced a famous quote that I've leaned on for years, and it proves itself true often. "And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~ Anaïs Nin.  I don't force myself to blossom before my time. I take each step as it presents itself. A day may come when confronting them feels right. That's when I believe we should do it. Not before.

I hope you find the friendship you were looking for on this forum. I've been a member for 2 1/2 years and have found this to be a place of healing and support by some of the nicest, kindest people I've ever met (Even though I've only met these folks online).

[tryingtokeepmoving]

Thank you all for your replies
 

Trying to write and not managing, e.g. because my mind goes blank, shows me that it's just too early for me to communicate

Blueberry, I deeply relate to this feeling of blankness you describe when you aren't ready to communicate. I ended up being able to write a letter to this friend (that I didn't send) but did have some of the blankness you describe, or maybe fog, like I was still trying to justify for this person or trying to convince myself not to feel a certain way.

But in the end, they were all about themselves only.

Papa Coco, This description of the covert narcissist really stopped me in my tracks. It is difficult to even acknowledge that someone is doing this if their behavior is all wrapped up in their struggles. I think I often figure they are already struggling enough, why pile onto their problems by expressing how they made me feel, even if in isolation their behavior was totally unacceptable.

I wonder if my friend has traits similar to covert narcissism, I struggle though, being able to tell the difference between emotional manipulation and maybe some other form of mental illness that causes drama, as her big explosions of emotion don't seem to benefit her. Maybe the attention is enough of a benefit?

[Papa Coco]

Tryingtokeepmoving,

I share your feelings about not knowing whether someone is narcissistic, or just having a difficult time with their own emotions.

To be fair, I'm not qualified to diagnose anyone, so I am admitting that I don't know if my dad was a covert narcissist or just a guy who never healed from his own bad childhood and his WWII traumas. I need to retract my diagnosis of his mental health, while remaining aware that his behaviors were hard on me.

From what I read in your posts, you seem to be a caring and kind person. I admire your comments about your friend, and how you don't know why she's struggling.

I guess it doesn't matter what the diagnosis is if we go forward dealing respectfully with the behaviors. We can love people, and not accept their manipulations. Good people will learn and grow from seeing how we react to them while narcissists will decide we're not worth their time if we don't allow them to manipulate us.

Either way we can politely protect ourselves from being manipulated without diagnosing the person themselves.

You've given me some food for thought today. And I appreciate it.

[tryingtokeepmoving]

From what I read in your posts, you seem to be a caring and kind person. I admire your comments about your friend, and how you don't know why she's struggling.

I appreciate your kind words, though I initially felt a disconnect that caused me to reflect on my aversion to compliments. I think it is because I don't feel very caring or kind, I feel more like a lumbering monster trying not to move so that I don't inadvertently knock over buildings.

I find your writings though to be very thoughtful and full of honesty, so I'll try to trust your judgement, thank you.

I guess it doesn't matter what the diagnosis is if we go forward dealing respectfully with the behaviors. We can love people, and not accept their manipulations. Good people will learn and grow from seeing how we react to them while narcissists will decide we're not worth their time if we don't allow them to manipulate us.

I really agree with this for multiple reasons. Not only is it the easiest way to see if a person is worth our friendship, if they are able to grow from us sharing how we feel, but it's also the most efficient. Of course doing this is much easier said than done.

I been spend alot of mental energy trying to sus out how people may react to me sharing my feelings, combing over previous exchanges, questioning my own behavior, asking if my feelings are really worth sharing etc. I am geared towards thinking it's not safe or that my feelings are probably wrong. I conclude the relationship may be better suited to surface level only. While this does protect me from those who would respond poorly to genuine discussions of feelings, it also isolates me from those who would be receptive.

I recently expressed myself to my friend and found her receptive, though its seemed like certain word choice brought up more heightened responses than others. I gave a much more indirect explanation of what I was feeling but I think conveyed how I felt and why. Which I'll consider a movement in the right direction. 

[Papa Coco]

TKMoving,

I am impressed by your willingness to push yourself to share a little more at a time.

Remember, it's perfectly okay to take it slow. Share when you feel like it hurts more to bottle it in than it does to let it out.

It takes some of us many years to feel safe enough to share more and more. And that's okay. I think it's healthiest to push the envelope slowly, rather than too quickly.

And I REALLY resonate with your sense of feeling unworthy of compliments. I have lived for decades thinking anyone who said anything nice to me was either just trying to be nice or was setting me up to humiliate me with a "gotcha". Being able to accept compliments comes with time. I've learned to focus on carefully putting out feelers to see how peopel react to little things, and then, when I discover how kind and safe their reactions were, I feel like going another inch.

When getting into a pool, I am always that guy who goes in one toe at a time, letting myself acclimate to the temperature before pushing another inch of ankle or calf in next.  That's how I manage my emotional healing also. One toe at a time. One inch at a time. It works for me. I hope you feel okay doing the same.

[tryingtokeepmoving]

I am impressed by your willingness to push yourself to share a little more at a time.

To be fair, the feelings I expressed to her were so vague I don't think she could take offense, but at least I said something as I was getting more and more resentful.

I have lived for decades thinking anyone who said anything nice to me was either just trying to be nice or was setting me up to humiliate me with a "gotcha".

Definitely, we feel like we can't trust their intentions. For me, I am sure they are only being complimentary to get something from me, which is how a few of my family members operated. I remember one who would be nice and then get what he wanted from me and then ignore me or be cruel to me after, and then he'd be kind and charming to me some other day and I'd give in and he'd get what he wanted from me. And the cycle continued until I learned to never listen to him.

When getting into a pool, I am always that guy who goes in one toe at a time, letting myself acclimate to the temperature before pushing another inch of ankle or calf in next. 

I admire your ability to pace. I struggle with the pacing of healing, I always just want to 'get it over with'. I find the spiral or the onion of healing difficult, at low points I wonder when I will finally be free of this. Though I guess that is the healing, that what has happened will always have happened, and it is how we relate to it I guess, that is what matters. I think I have been going too fast recently, I will try to keep your method in mind. Thanks for your reply