No contact with FOO

[AnnaMaria]

Hello everyone,

I have been no contact for a long time.  I am currently 28 and I have been no contact with my mother for 14 years (removed from her care aged 14 and placed with my father).  I then moved out at 16, so have been no contact with my father for 12 years.  Sadly, this meant losing everyone in my extended family too, all the aunties and uncles and cousins.  I knew, even then, that this was what I had to do to survive.

When I left I didn't maintain any contact at all - a clean break with everyone.  I packed a bag of clothes, changed my phone number and never looked back. 
At 19 I relocated across the country.

I sometimes wonder what they are doing with their lives, whether they might miss me on birthdays or at Christmas.  But the further I get in my recovery journey the less these feelings crop up. 

There are brief moments, usually during emotional flashbacks, when I yearn for a mother.  Not necessarily my mother, just a mother, the mother I should have had, my birth right to a loving, nurturing parent.
I've learned that during these moments little me is telling me that she needs love and care and, when I'm managing well, I nurture myself to alleviate the grief.

Has anyone else been no contact for such a large proportion of their lives?

[Kizzie]

There are brief moments, usually during emotional flashbacks, when I yearn for a mother.  Not necessarily my mother, just a mother, the mother I should have had, my birth right to a loving, nurturing parent. I've learned that during these moments little me is telling me that she needs love and care and, when I'm managing well, I nurture myself to alleviate the grief.

I recently lost my M who subjected me to covert narcissistic abuse for most of my life.  I wrote in a post a few days ago that I cried my heart out for a day and kept saying I want my mom.  Like you though, it wasn't the M I had but the M I should have had, that I deserved. It was young me crying just as you've written about and her I have to nurture and care for.

I wasn't NC for most of my life and while I know the incredible loss of that, I wonder if not being subjected to whatever abuse you family would have doled out for longer and the fact that you took control and left to protect yourself may mean you have a sense of power/self a lot of us who stayed too long don't? I could be wrong about this, just sharing the thoughts I had reading your post.

[AnnaMaria]

Thanks for your response Kizzie.

It sounds like it was very difficult for you to receive the news that your M had passed.  I'm sorry for the pain it caused you when she passed, and for the pain she caused you before.


Haha, erm, well... unfortunately things didn't get better straight away.  When I left at 16 I moved in with an abusive older boyfriend.  When that relationship broke down (very soon after moving in) I was homeless for about a year.  Then I met my daughters father who was incredibly abusive and had a 2.5 year long horrific relationship with him.  Fortunately, I left him when our daughter was 5 months old, shortly before I turned 20.

I think that having her was what started me on my healing journey.  Whilst I didn't necessarily recognise I was being abused by him at the time, I did realise that I didn't want my daughter to grow up witnessing the violence and arguing.  I wanted better for her than a repeat of my childhood.

Although I left at 19, much of the abuse continued through the civil courts and the resulting contact arrangements for my daughter until they finally ruled no contact when I was around 22 or 23.  He has since been sent to prison (just a year or two ago), but not before repeating the cycle with another woman, with whom he had another daughter.

It's around the time the courts ruled for no contact between him and my daughter that I started therapy with a trauma specialist, I was given their details by witness support.  Again because I wanted to do better by my daughter, and with the space to finally start processing not only my relationship with her bio dad, but also my own childhood trauma, I truly started the journey of healing.

So yes, the space from my FOO has helped enormously on my healing journey.

It's just unfortunate that the damage done to my self perception/attachment style etc meant that leaving my FOO did not also mean the end of ongoing trauma.

But here I am, regardless, slowly improving, with at least some hope for the future.

[AnnaMaria]

I went away and had a think about this overnight. 

I realised that what you said about having a sense of power/self that others might not because I left my FOO at a young age triggered something in me.

I started to feel really shameful because I felt as though I didn't have a right to feel as traumatised as I do because I managed to escape my abusers earlier in my life than a lot of people do.

I realise that my response above is me trying to justify my experience, which I don't need to do. 

I also now feel ashamed of "over sharing" because I didn't really feel ready to share everything that I wrote above.  But I wrote it as a knee jerk reaction - to try to convey that I *am* in pain.  To try to convey that I *do* struggle with feeling disempowered and unsafe very often. 

In the past I have been called a liar, or told that my timeline doesn't make sense or that none of this really happened, etc.  Which is why my response above has triggered these feelings in me again.

On reflecting I suppose that what I'm writing now is the answer I could have given instead; that no, I don't think that I necessarily have a sense of power or self worth that others might not because I left my FOO at a young age.

I believe that leaving at a young age was what I had to do for survival, I honestly think I would not have physically survived another day in the home of my mother or the home of my father.  I mean that quite literally.

I also believe that at that young age (and because of the abuse that I suffered) I did not have any real concept of physical safety beyond the black and white of life and death.  Therefore, when I left the trauma didn't end.  I fell into patterns of unhealthy, abusive relationships and I didn't know how to keep myself emotionally safe once out of imminent physical danger.

In my experience, the justice system perpetuated the cycle of abuse long after I left my FOO and subsequent abusive relationships.

I have had to work really hard to establish any semblance of identity that I have today.
I am incredibly proud of myself for going no contact with my FOO when I did, but I don't think that it made things easier or better.  It wasn't a conscious decision at the time, I didn't consciously know or decide that if I didn't leave, I wouldn't survive, I just did it, because my survival brain made me.

It's interesting for me to see how your reply caused such an emotional response in me, and I'm hoping that by leaving this post up I can learn from it, rather than asking someone to delete it in a shame driven moment of self doubt.

[Blueberry]

Seeing your reply here though I'm not Kizzie, I just want to send you some warm and caring thoughts and energy from OOTS.

I'm sorry you were triggered right at the beginning of your time on OOTS (first day? second day?). Kudos on remaining on the forum, responding and not deleting your previous post  

I'm sorry you feel ashamed but I also understand. You're having triggered reactions that I've had before too. Welcome to the cptsd club, she (Blueberry) says with a wry smile, a frown, a tear and a deep sigh.   Here on the forum I find there's (almost) always someone who really gets whatever outlandish symptom, behaviour or thought I come out with. I hope after this rather rocky start that you can find that on here too. I've been called a liar before or it's been insinuated and my symptoms have often been downplayed. Lots of us on here have had that happen. I still have to remind myself that "Yes, it IS/WAS that bad" instead of feeling shame.

I think I read all your posts yesterday but didn't have the wherewithal to reply. It sounds as if you have a lot of healing under your belt so to speak and I hope to hear more from you. We learn off each other's posts here too without mbrs offering advice, which does happen but not the main goal on here, and I'm looing forward to learning from your recovery experience because I can see already that there's a lot there.

I'm really impressed that you managed to go no contact with FOO at such a young age. The fact that you did speaks to how much pain you were in, imho. You definitely have the right to feel as traumatised as you do. I also feel really traumatised - my whole life, all aspects of it, are encumbered and hindered and made really, really difficult by this stupid cptsd.

I believe you that wouldn't have survived physically, so you got out. As sad as it is to have to leave at 16yo when you're not an adult yet - even at 18 or 21 or whatever you're an adult in the eyes of the law but the brain hasn't finished maturing. So at 16 - out and on your own       Your poor 16yo self! On top of that, due to years of trauma and abuse you may not have had too many emotional tools in your workbox for managing life. I know I didn't. I'm still missing some/lots. With developmental trauma due to early childhood stuff, we don't get all the skills we need. I'm sure you know all this! But just  - I hear you, I believe you, what you write all makes total sense.

To a lesser extent I and others on here (when I read their posts), we went and/or still go through the same sort of pattern you did. The more I set FOO boundaries, which entails reducing contact because FOO is FOO and FOO is continuing emotional abuse and gaslighting etc, and the more I heal and grow as I set these boundaries, the more I realise how many of my friendships - which I thought were good friendships! - are not actually that healthy. Some friends are no longer friends. Ones who tried to 'help' me in contact with FOO or opined FOO wasn't 'always' to blame       I've ended the friendship. My ex-friends were all healthier than FOO so I never saw how unhealthy they were for me, I mean "healthier than FOO" isn't that healthy. If I'd ever had a romantic partner / life partner, it would have been a disaster zone at least emotionally. Fortunately some part of me seems to send out vibes of "I don't exist". I've never been in a relationship, have never had a boyfriend. Apparently men don't 'see' me and certainly don't sense an adult woman. A saving grace, unconsciously managed probably like the way some part of you knew you had to get out at 16.

Anyway enough on me. Once again a warm Welcome to the forum! 

[Kizzie]

I am so sorry what I wrote triggered a response in you AnnaMaria, that of course is the last thing any of us wants to do here.  I totally believe you are in pain and ended up with CPTSD because of what you went through. I think what I saw in your post was what it must have taken to leave at an earlier age than many of us but you're right, we end up doing things based on the need to survive. I do think you have every right to be proud of yourself, you did not succumb to all that you went through.

My bad, and again so sorry for not thinking through what I was writing. 

[NarcKiddo]

I am really happy you have stayed here and have shared your reactions and your vulnerabilities. That is a brave thing to do at any time, but when you are in a new place and don't really know the people yet - wow. Well done.

I didn't initially respond to your post because I am still in contact with my FOO. I fled, briefly, at age 18 to marry a very unsuitable and problematic man and was cast out of FOO for a short while before my narc mother realised she wanted my supply and reeled me back in. So I cannot relate to having had any significant period of life as NC.

It seems to me that we have all done what we needed to in order to survive. Otherwise we would not be here. That will look very different in every case. Nobody is actually any more or less brave than anyone else on here, regardless of what it may look like to anyone else. What is kind of sad, for all of us, is that none of us seem able to see, understand, celebrate and use our own strengths to their full potential. That's the trauma holding us back, I guess. And as we work slowly along our paths of healing we can at least look back and recognise achievements that we did not even see at the time. I am happy that you feel proud of yourself for going NC, because you should feel proud.

 

[Bermuda]

I haven't read all the replies, so sorry if I restate something.

I relate to those feelings too. I also went though a clean separation as a teenager. No FOO. No F at all. I wasn't taken in by anyone. It was hard. The feelings of missing a family were pervasive for a long time, even though logically it was not my family I missed. It's the commercials, the signs, the pleasant conversation about traditions, and the joy other people seem to have. Sometimes I think that those of us who have had this kind of no-contact in our adolescence suffer an additional trauma. The unknown is really hard sometimes. It's another level of not relating, actually not relating.

I went no contact at 18 and am in my late thirties. Sometimes it feels like the yearning gets easier, but then the disconnect and identity things get stronger, but whatever the case it's for the best. Making lemonade out of lemons, and I'm only a little bitter.

Maybe you don't relate to these feelings at all, I don't know. The yearning improves. It just creeps in from time to time, but no longer takes root.

[AnnaMaria]

I am so sorry what I wrote triggered a response in you AnnaMaria, that of course is the last thing any of us wants to do here.  I totally believe you are in pain and ended up with CPTSD because of what you went through. I think what I saw in your post was what it must have taken to leave at an earlier age than many of us but you're right, we end up doing things based on the need to survive. I do think you have every right to be proud of yourself, you did not succumb to all that you went through.

My bad, and again so sorry for not thinking through what I was writing. 

Honestly, Kizzie, it's not your bad at all.  You wrote something that I believe was intended to be supportive and kind, and it was!  But due to all of "my stuff" I perceived it as a diminishing statement.

I guess that just points out to me another thing I now have the opportunity to heal.

Thank you so much for your kind words and please don't feel as though you did something wrong.  It's not you and it's not me.  It's the people who caused my CPTSD to blame because that's where my reaction came from.

 

[AnnaMaria]

my whole life, all aspects of it, are encumbered and hindered and made really, really difficult by this stupid cptsd.

This is so poignant.  It truly does seep into every aspect of life for me too, and indeed many, if not all of us with CPTSD.
This is something that I have found profoundly difficult to convey to others.  It's not "just" flashbacks and nightmares (as if those things alone aren't already horrific enough)!  It's, oftentimes, a pervasive and consuming sense of toxicity around your own existence.  It's like the old story of king Midas, but it feels like everything I touch turns to toxic ooze rather than to gold.

Fortunately, not every day feels like that for me anymore.


I can also completely relate to what you said about the friendships you didn't realise were unhealthy because they were "healthier than FOO".  That is for sure how I ended up in a string of abusive/unhealthy relationships.  I didn't have a "healthy relationship" framework to look to.  So anyone who wasn't abusing me as "severely" (or what I believed was as severe) as my FOO was, became the best thing since sliced bread by default.

It's interesting for me to hear that you've not found a relationship as it's a stark contrast to my own experience of inappropriate overtly sexualised behaviour.
I don't want to say that I'm happy for you, or that I'm sad or sorry for this situation, because I'm not sure if you experience it as positive or negative.
What I will say is that you deserve to find meaningful relationships with others, whether those are platonic/romantic or any other form, and I hope that you find them to be safe and fulfilling.
We all deserve to feel safe connection to other human beings, in fact we all *need* safe connection to other people, not just to survive, but to thrive, even if the concept of thriving might feel quite alien to many of us!

[AnnaMaria]

I am really happy you have stayed here and have shared your reactions and your vulnerabilities. That is a brave thing to do at any time, but when you are in a new place and don't really know the people yet - wow. Well done.

Thank you.  This brings up a lot of "stuff" for me.  It makes me feel uncomfortable and ashamed and silly that such a "normal" human process of expressing how I feel (from behind a screen, with all the layers of protection that offers) is something that should receive any praise.
I'm slowly getting better at praising myself for these things, but accepting those words from other people is hard.  It feels shaming.  Not because you're shaming me, but because it rivals the voice of my inner critic and seems to rile them up! 

The third paragraph in your response really "hits the nail on the head" so to speak.  I couldn't think of which part to pull for a quote.  We are all out here just doing our best and, you're absolutely right, that looks different for all of us.

It's just a shame that many of us, much of the time aren't able to see ourselves for who we truly are.  Those are the wounds that relational trauma leave behind.

[AnnaMaria]

Maybe you don't relate to these feelings at all, I don't know. The yearning improves. It just creeps in from time to time, but no longer takes root.

I really do relate.  I think that this is what I wanted to hear.  Some reassurance of light at the end of the tunnel.  I know that the yearning crops up less and less as time goes on, and yet it still sometimes feels like it will never subside.

As you've mentioned, the issues around identity definitely crop up.  It's hard to integrate all these different parts of me when it sometimes feels like, the longer I remain no contact with FOO, the further I'm distancing myself from that little girl who went through all of the trauma.

It's hard to hear friends talk about their childhood memories, their little traditions and such. 
I know that I will stand there and endure all of the pain and grief of staying silent, because I simply have nothing to share.  I don't want to poison their conversation with my trauma by relaying my childhood memories.  I don't want to lie and make something up.  I don't want to hand pick one of the faintest and most insignificant "happy" memories from the handful that I have, to share with them, because it feels like I would be doing a disservice to all of those parts of me who know all the pain that my FOO caused me.

So I just carry it.  Until it starts to feel like it's too much.  Then I go back to therapy so I can lay down the load.  Then I pick myself back up, with my little bag of trauma now much lighter, and off I go into the world again.  Rinse and repeat.

It's hard.  Sometimes it's manageable, but today it's hard.  I think because of Christmas coming up.

[Bermuda]

As you've mentioned, the issues around identity definitely crop up.  It's hard to integrate all these different parts of me when it sometimes feels like, the longer I remain no contact with FOO, the further I'm distancing myself from that little girl who went through all of the trauma.

It's hard to hear friends talk about their childhood memories, their little traditions and such. 
I know that I will stand there and endure all of the pain and grief of staying silent, because I simply have nothing to share.  I don't want to poison their conversation with my trauma by relaying my childhood memories.  I don't want to lie and make something up.  I don't want to hand pick one of the faintest and most insignificant "happy" memories from the handful that I have, to share with them, because it feels like I would be doing a disservice to all of those parts of me who know all the pain that my FOO caused me.

This is exactly my experience too. I couldn't have described it better.

[Kizzie]

Honestly, Kizzie, it's not your bad at all.  You wrote something that I believe was intended to be supportive and kind, and it was!  But due to all of "my stuff" I perceived it as a diminishing statement. I guess that just points out to me another thing I now have the opportunity to heal. Thank you so much for your kind words and please don't feel as though you did something wrong.  It's not you and it's not me.  It's the people who caused my CPTSD to blame because that's where my reaction came from.

You're so right when you say it's not you and it's not me, it really is the people who perpetrated our abuse and made life such a struggle.  Thanks for your post, I'm glad you're here with us.

[tofubreadchillicoriander]

It's disgusting how C-PTSD being unrecognized leads to further traumatization of people who suffer from C-PTSD. It's disgusting how trauma and abuse more generally creates closed, isolating systems when it comes to human relationships (with self and others). If only members of APA would seek therapy, get healthy, recognize C-PTSD in all its forms in the DSM then we would see more resources to victims and a reformed (and trauma informed, at least) justice system.