Incessant negativity

[Phoebes]

This is really hard to explain but I'm guessing its part of this whole scapegoat golden child dynamic in a way. My sister and I are close in the way that we talk every day. Although I did move away because I needed distance. This was a long time ago and I do attribute our somewhat successful relationship to having distance between us. She had had her first child and it was like I was expected to be the built-in babysitter with no boundaries. She was starting to raise her child with a very strict physically abusive fundamentalist Christian book she was reading. Thank goodness that changed but I could not say anything about it. Glad she listen to someone else and change that mindset. I was shocked though and I reacted by needing to move away as soon as possible I could not deal with that. I do love my sister and she has been good to me throughout life and been helpful and kind and thoughtful.

Now that life has taken a toll and we all struggle and have our quirks, I just noticed and feel in my nervous system all of the negativity. Almost every single thing I say is met with a counter active negative comment. What is that? A lot of it is to say like I don't know because I don't have kids. For example she will be going on and on about how she can't figure out how to be healthy. I am pretty healthy and she will ask what I do like what I eat how I exercise. I will explain something simple like when I make food I always make leftovers and make batches of things that can be used in different ways.  So basically cooking Whole Foods etc. She will then launch into a negative tone and say who has time for that I have kids to tend to etc. it's like this all day. Like I will be mixing up the dog food and she will say who has time for all that.

Like being a mom takes up all of her time, And I of course don't understand that because I don't have kids. but what I observe is that she spends a very large amount of time shopping. Shopping is sort of her coping mechanism and while she does not have money for rent, she is constantly buying things online and going shopping. But I dare not say anything about that. Even when she's going on and on about how she can't pay the bills almost implying she is asking me for help. Even though I don't make enough money to help. Her house is full of brand new clothes and products. And she constantly feels she needs new pieces of furniture and things like that.And a lot of her time is spent talking about all of these things that she bought and what it is for. Like long diatribes. And I'm thinking in my mind you could have made food and fed the dog better in the time it took to tell me that. Lol .

Anyway I know we're not perfect and I love my sister but the sort of dynamic is very exhausting to me I care about her and but I don't know what to say to all of that. If I say anything at all she completely snaps. So I wind up mostly just being quiet.In the end when I left she says you're probably glad to be leaving because we all are loud and Obnoxious and drive you crazy. She says this in front of the kids and that's not how I felt at all. But she is always just saying negative things like that in general. It's hard to explain but it just sort of irks me.

[compassion4all]

Hi Phoebes,

It's amazing how easy it is to be objective on these matters but here goes....I too have a sister who I want to have a relationship with but in short, sometimes she makes me crazy.  I understand the "but I'm a mother" dynamic all too well.  Nothing against all you mothers out there but it has definitely been my experience that when someone has self esteem/identity issues (as many of us do, not a judgment), then attaching to the identity of being a mother, which is an identity that is generally held in high esteem in most societies, then it is very tempting to attach to it very strongly and use that as a weapon against someone who is not. It's like a get out jail free card. An instant answer to the nagging question "Who am I?" that many of us who had less than ideal upbringings are left with.  It is an answer our egos love. Society validates this identity. Our egos also love to judge and compare which is probably why your sister will remind you that you are not a mother and couldn't possibly understand.  I only wish I truly understood this dynamic as it was happening.

Being aware of that years ago wouldn't have changed anything, but I could do what I try to do now - detach myself from the dynamic.  This is the hardest part of healing.right?: having relationships with people who are not working on themselves, don't understand what that even means (I once didn't) and don't want to find out. When I recognize that someone is operating from their ego (most people) and not their true nature, I remind myself not to take their words personally. I came across a great quote (I love quotes and read many every day...).  "You can't build an honest relationship with people who lie to themselves". It sounds like you want to build an honest relationship with your sister. I want to do the same with mine but in reality, I have to accept that our relationship will never be the type of relationship that I want: one based on love, trust and honesty. It isn't because my sister is a bad person and there is no reason for me to be angry at her because of that (though I went through that phase). It's just that perhaps your sister will always "be on the fence". By that I mean, sometimes showing interest in your healthy habits (physical or psychological) and inquiring about them, but through action showing she is not ready to make any changes.

The healing part for both of us (just because I know this is true doesn't mean I always practice it...) is to remember to put ourselves first, recognize that we can only change ourselves, be kind and not take others words or actions personally.  Sometimes you have to love someone from a distance. I have compassion for my sister because I know why she has the issues she has, but I also need to draw a boundary between myself and her since I have done too much work on myself to allow others toxic behaviors to affect me. Easier said than done of course, but that is our mission! (if we choose to accept it...lol).

[Phoebes]

Very good points, compassion4all. I've learned to try to do what you are saying, too! The way you framed how one might attach to the identity of mother makes a lot of sense. I always thought my narcissistic mother overly identified with being "a mother," THE mother", "because I'm the mother," "obey your mother," etc. Even as a young child I could feel that I didn't really factor into what she was saying. She was the mother of it was either daughter? Where did that fit in? anyway I digress..

Once I had a little distance of course it was easier to be objective and softer, and I truly do recognize how good of a mother my sister is despite her upbringing, as well as the shenanigans both of our parents pull these days and throughout adulthood. She has managed to raise two good kids who are not required to have relationships with abusive people, to hug old people they don't want to, or to be in groups of mean people. They are honored for who they are and allowed an opinion and even to throw fits. She is pretty good with them and understanding. So, I guess things are back to normal and I can understand. I think I am my own worst critic so I do tend to overly judge myself and that's some thing I have to work on too. Like why wasn't I able to be more objective in the moment. Why do I get dysregulated or triggered ? AnyWho thank you for the insight!

[NarcKiddo]

My narc mother is also obsessed with being a mother. Our ONE AND ONLY mother. Thank **** for that. I wouldn't want more than one!

You ask "why do I get dysregulated or triggered?" and I think that bears further examination. Every time I report getting triggered to my therapist she works with me to find out where the feeling is coming from. It's almost never just because someone doing x is just plain annoying. Because something that is annoying is just that. Not triggering.

My therapist introduced me quite early on to a theory the name of which I forget. But it is the one where you essentially operate in parent, child or adult state. In a normal, healthy adult relationship both adults would generally be in adult state as they relate to one another. Occasionally it is appropriate for one to be more like a parent and the other a child - e.g if one is unwell they might tend more towards childlike behaviour for a short while and the other may be more parent like as they care for the ill one. But it is temporary, and mutually agreed (subconsciously). Where things get problematic is where one or other feels shunted into a state they don't want to be in.

For me it was very emotionally dangerous to be a child, even when I was one. Anyone trying to take on an authoritative, parent role that might be trying to shunt me into a child role triggers me badly. I have difficulty finding my way back to an adult role (though I am getting better at it). So my general reaction if someone starts showing signs of leaving an adult state is to try to grab parent state first and force them into child state. I don't like that situation but at least I know how to operate it, because my mother parentified me from an early age.

Now I am aware of this theory, I find it very helpful in my dealings with my FOO and also with my husband. He was brought up in a very dysfunctional family too, so our dynamics have always been somewhat strange. But he responds well to my sticking in adult state, or pushing myself back there, and he then puts himself there, too. It's made a world of difference.

[Phoebes]

That makes a lot of sense. I definitely used to default to child mode when relating to my NM, but never thought of that dynamic in that way with my sister...I've kind of been approaching all of my interactions with observing my nervous system responses and going from there. I don't always respond in the moment in the way I would like but it's a start.

[Phoebes]

I keep thinking of this in recent conversations with my sister. One of the topics related to always being out of money but then always spending money is that she has a lot of worry about a spot that she feels like is for sure a skin cancer. She will not get it checked out because she doesn't have insurance. I have pleaded with her to just go, ask them for a payment plan, even called him ahead of time. I'm sure they get that all the time and even usually if you can't afford it you can at least pay five dollars a month indefinitely. Just don't let it go. This has worried me and I have asked her multiple times if she's got it checked out but it is always a no.

Then amongst all of this she's talking about how she went shopping and bought clothes and this and that. This is obviously just what she does no matter how I say it. So I guess my conclusion about this topic is that I need to allow her her decisions. I can't say anything so I'm just going to stop trying. We had an aunt that did this and she unnecessarily passed away fairly young. I would think my sister would have learned from this. You couldn't have told my aunt anything, or my grandpa, and you can't tell my sister anything so I should know this is how my family is.

[Armee]

I'm sorry. It's a really painful and frustrating and helpless position to be in. This is how my mom was too. She'd complain and scare us but refuse to do anything and then keep talking about how bad it was. It made me want to explode.

[Phoebes]

Yes! I'm sorry your mom did this too. That's the thing- just don't be dramatic and cause everyone to worry and then say nope to doing something about it. Crazy making.