Initiating a Therapeutic Relationship

[Dafoid]

My therapist explicitly identified with my mother's feelings, refused to initiate therapy after months, and insisted that my unsettled emotions were all in my head. The narcissist support groups around here are all about narcissistic lovers and how to spot them, not CPTSD induced in childhood. My only friend, on whom I relied for support and guidance, shamed me sufficiently during flashbacks (or lost attunement) for me to have to withdraw. We had even tried MDMA-assisted psychotherapy with MAPS guidelines, which wound up being retraumatizing...

So, I'm alone again. And I don't know what to do, and I'm quite frankly scared. How do I make friends when I flinch around everyone? How do I form a therapeutic relationship when my attempts to do so have worsened the problem? I feel like I'm on my last legs in even initiating recovery.

[sanmagic7]

hey, dafoid,

holy smokes!  i'm glad you made it here.  what a horrible experience with that therapist!  so very sorry you had to go through that.  i adamantly disagree that your unsettled emotions are 'all in your head'.  traumatic relationships keep emotions unsettled until they're explored and resolved.  even then, there's no guarantee that they won't pop up from time to time if you get triggered by something.  by the by, i can relate.  my first therapist made my situation considerably worse as well.  all we can do is keep looking until we find a 'fit'.  there are a lot of good ones out there, too.

i've found a lot of support, kindness, and understanding here, and i hope you can as well.  my c-ptsd experience runs the gamut from childhood into retirement age, so the range here is varied and diverse.  this place is not about narcissists, per se, but the aftermath we suffer through from having relationships with them (or any other abusive person), how to slowly take the steps needed to get onto a path of recovery, and support along the way. 

i want you to know that what i wish for you is some comfort, some stability, and to be able to find the strength you need to carry on in a positive direction for your life.  my best to you, and hope to hear more from you.

[Three Roses]

I hate that you had a bad experience. I've had my share of doozies, too.

There is still so much ignorance on how to treat us, it's ridiculous. But I believe things are changing. Our Resources section here has downloads to print out, to share with therapists and counselors. I've got mine printed and ready for my new therapist on Dec 20th. (My old therapist moved.)

Try not to be too discouraged, there's plenty of hope and there's more and more research being done. There are some really exciting discoveries being made about the brain and its neuroplasticity - http://theunboundedspirit.com/how-to-re-wire-your-brain-the-incredible-benefits-of-neuroplasticity/

Take your time and be sure to move at your own pace. Maybe take a short break from therapy to research some different types you'd like to try? I see in a previous post you said you were reading "The Body Keeps The Score"; did you see any type of therapy listed there that interested you?

[radical]

Hi Dafoid,
I'm so sorry you've had this experience.  Please don't give up.

I think few therapists are up to date with narcissistic abuse.  While, as with everything, there will be people jumping on the bandwagon, (so to speak), I think this is an issue that has been little understood prior to the internet.  People would talk to therapists about the symptoms resulting from this kind of abuse, already believing they must be to blame, imagining things, overreacting etc., and then spend a lot of time in therapy trying to solve a problem in which much of the cause was outside themselves, by looking inside themselves.  It seems to have taken a whole lot of people finding a space to express themselves, who in the past, as the 'identified patient' have been seen to be the problem.  The abused have come together with a vanguard of psychologists, writers, and researchers (such as the writer of 'emotional blackmail', among others), to identify the behaviours involved, the extent of this kind of abuse, and how it harms abused individuals, as well as families and groups.

Much of this abuse is covert, manipulative and 'plausibly deniable'.  There is often also an imbalance of power, and narcissists often present as 'Jeckle and Hydes' which also contributes to the difficulties for affected people in believing themselves and being heard when they try to speak about it.

I think therapists are wise to be wary, and to listen carefully because the word 'narcissist' is now being bandied about flamboyantly by all and sundry.  But this abuse is real and those victimised are badly harmed.  More and more people, mostly those who have had problems with self-esteem and boundaries related to the FOOs, are recognising patterns of abuse throughout their lives, are 'coming out of the fog' and seeing that they aren't crazy, stupid, weak, etc.  That there are those who exploit, abuse and manipulate their way through life, and they can pick out who those they are most likely to be able to target with impunity. 

The tragedy is that those selected were usually vulnerable because of previous abuse.  The cumulative trauma from these kinds of relationships can destroy people.  Too often therapists see the hollowed out shell of a person who has sustained a lifetime of abuse, and treat symptoms they see as entirely arising within the patient.  FOO relationships may be explored, but the idea that the abuse may have continued and may be still present in the lives of the patient is foreign to them.  Therapists usually don't know what questions to ask, and the external causes remain hidden.  Patients raising the problem have most often found out about the problem themselves, if they are ware of it at all, and then have to convince and educate their therapist.  Which is a big ask.

Life is so much easier if we believe that people are always the authors of their own fortune and misfortune, that people and life is just, and people are treated as they deserve to be.

[Dafoid]

Around when I posted that, I feel into a psychological regression that lasted over a month, and was too averse to even reading this thread... Of course you all had nothing but kind words and advice, though, instead of the embarrassing catastrophe in my mind's eye. Thank you for those words. 

So, better late than never to reply:

this place is not about narcissists, per se, but the aftermath we suffer through from having relationships with them (or any other abusive person), how to slowly take the steps needed to get onto a path of recovery, and support along the way.

Right--mentioning that was for context, but narcissism is far from the exclusive indicator of being abusive. Given an increased understanding of the malaise for each tormentor of mine, the label fits a few but insufficiently fleshes them out as people.

Take your time and be sure to move at your own pace. Maybe take a short break from therapy to research some different types you'd like to try? I see in a previous post you said you were reading "The Body Keeps The Score"; did you see any type of therapy listed there that interested you?

The methods Dr. van der Kolk mention vary in efficacy, but I've found yoga so far to be a reliable way of mitigating my hyperarousal and providing an afterglow of embodiment that lasts for a few hours. It dredges up fear stored in the limbic system, which I accept without evasion. That, mindfulness practice, and battling the inner and outer critics are decent holding patterns for self-help.

Therapists usually don't know what questions to ask, and the external causes remain hidden.  Patients raising the problem have most often found out about the problem themselves, if they are ware of it at all, and then have to convince and educate their therapist.  Which is a big ask.

The amusing thing is, my shrink tried to convince me that I wouldn't benefit from therapy until I overcame this fearful-avoidant "come here-go away" attachment style. However, I initiated therapy aware of precisely this, looking to heal from the style while remaining vigilant for incompetence or malevolence.

Because we have to be vigilant. Most people are good people, but why do they stay at arm's length from us while the bad people draw near?

[radical]

Most people are good people, but why do they stay at arm's length from us while the bad people draw near?

This is one of the biggest harms dones by psychological abuse.  Abusers are able to draw
people in while the recipients of their violence are often invalidated, misunderstood and cast out.  It hurts.

This kind of abuse is becoming better understood.  If you go to websites like "Psychology Today' you'll find a lot of posts about the tactics and their effects.  Some people are beginning to understand, but it took a groundswell of targeted people being able to talk together to get the ball rolling.

I'm glad you've come back.  I hope you come to feel safe here, as I have

[sanmagic7]

i'm glad you're back, too.  one of the things i've learned from being here is self-advocacy and being proactive both with the medical and mental health professions.  the more i've gotten to know, the more i've been able to educate the professionals with whom i've had to work.  it's kind of a backwards way to go, but they're not gonna know if someone doesn't educate them.  i got tired of thinking someone was going to understand just by my trying to explain it.

i'll be going to see an internalist in a few month, to finally, possibly, get some referrals i need as far as more info on my endocrine system, and changes/damage to my brain from what i've gone through.  you can believe me that i will have a ton of information to show him, including references, suggestions from other docs, articles about c-ptsd and what it does to body and brain, lab tests to show what's already going wrong and right inside me, and pictures of damaged brains taken through mri's and ct scans to show him this is a real thing and not something 'just in my head', etc.   i want some help, and the only way i'm going to get it is to arm myself to go into battle for it.

finding the right therapist can be a crapshoot, but i hope you don't give up on it.  finding the right one may take some time, some experimentation, but can be llfe-saving.    i haven't had much luck.  thankfully, i'm a therapist, and have been able to practice some of my own tools on myself.  this forum has helped with what i haven't been able to do.  best to you with it all.  i wish you well.