Started Back to Therapy Today - Trying EMDR Again

[Elphanigh]

Started a new form of emdr today that focuses on pre verbal and early trauma (eventually I need to compile the different types of emdr I have done into some sort of resource) . Even just laying the ground work brought up so much. Anyways having my session made me think of you, and I reread the thread and saw you don't start until the 6th but I wanted to send lots of good healing energy your way while I was thinking of it.

[Kizzie]

Tks Elph      I'm curious how you get at early/preverbal trauma in EMDR?  How do you feel it went?

[Elphanigh]

I felt like it went really well. The first two sessions are groundwork stuff, the psychologist that made it termed it clearing effective circuits. Essentially that deals with the emotional circuits we have in our brain that have been proven to exist at birth. What we did was try to objectively picture what an emotion would look like. No judgement of what that was and to let that image process through until it stops changing/moving etc. It is supposed to be useful for any patient but especially with this because it helps get rid of some preconceived notions, and helps teach some separation.

This was really powerful for me. I wasn't sure what to think when it was describe to me but it was really intriguing, and surprising to see what came up. (I wrote in my new journal about it, if you are curious of more detail about some of that, not long but don't feel like retyping it here. it is the last post I made). I only did three of the 7 circuits because the first three tend to take the longest/are the hardest. They were shame,  rage, fear. I really struggled with rage because of my background so it is what I still kind of sorting through today.

After the ground work the emdr is made to try to discern the earliest memory of a particular feeling, and processing what comes up with that. Be it a realization that I was unwanted as a new born, or that as a toddler I was not having my needs met etc. The idea is to work from preconception (which ends up being about what we know of before we were born, I know a lot of mine which is not always the case)  to about 3 or 4 years old. I am curious about how that will go but it is apparently intended to help early attachment traumas by recognizing needs and feelings we had but didn't have words to express.

My early history is not as cluttered as my history from age five but it is still covered in violence, chaos, and anger. Lots of attachment trauma certainly.. so it sounds like something that will be helpful but it is certainly different because it isn't as specific memory focused like classic emdr.

If you are curious, it was developed by Sarah Paulsen, her book "When there are no words" is what I am working through with my T of course.

Oh another side note, when you talk with your new T see if she knows anything about the Flash method. It is really wonderful as well. Helped me get to a point where I could more readily handle classic emdr on a few things. Sorry that was lengthy, there is a lot jam packed in all the healing stuff I have been doing this year and there is only getting to be more. I start an experiential group in like a week and a half (eepp)

[Luke57]

Hello everybody,

My thanks go to Kizzie for starting this thread and everyone else who has shared their experiences with EMDR. I'm seeing a new T on the 29th who specializes in EMDR. We have only spoken on the phone once, but after hearing my history and symptoms, she thought that EMDR would be helpful. She said our first session would just be me answering questions for her. So I expect it'll be awhile before we actually get into it.

I started T for the first time 15 years ago. It ended up being very helpful for me, but for the first couple of years I was overwhelmed with nightmares, out-of-body experiences and vivid flashbacks of my abuse. So I'm going in to this with a lot fear, wondering if this new form of T will bring up even more junk. I'm trying to go in with positive thoughts and a "no pain, no gain" outlook. I appreciate the wisdom given here about taking it slow. Now, that's going to be one of the first things I talk to my T about. If anyone has anymore advice or feedback I would love to hear it.


I only just joined this forum a few weeks ago. Now, I'm especially glad I did. I'm sure I'll need all the help and support I can get. And I'll be looking forward to hearing of your experiences, Kizzie. Good luck to you and everyone on their journeys.

Luke

[Elphanigh]

Hi Luke57,

I really hope that your emdr with the new therapist goes well! It seems pretty standard it might take a while to get into. In my experience, that initial reaction of nightmares, flashbacks, etc isn't as major when going back to therapy. The T should also go through a lot of grounding exercises and coping skills before ever starting EMDR to ensure that you don't have a spike in those sort of symptoms. Mine spiked some but once I was fully prepared they were still manageable for me. The "no pain, no gain" is an okay phrase because this junk does hurt but it should not consistently take you out of your window of tolerance, if that makes sense. Definitely make sure you understand the window of tolerance and if you feel like you aren't in it say something. That is something my T has come to be able to read in me when I get too worked up but it takes a while to build that kind of familiarity. It is okay to speak up and say hey I need to stop for a moment etc.

My biggest word of insight (other than go slow) is don't judge what comes up. It is hard to not judge it or want to change it but when your T says to let it come and observe it without judgement (they will say something of the sort) take it to heart.

I am really glad you found this forum, it is such a supportive group of people. I really hope you EMDR goes well. Let us know 

[Luke57]

Hi Elphanigh,

Thank you for your response and the wise words of advice. I'm sure I'll benefit from your experience. The "window of tolerance" thing will be important for me to keep in mind. I often feel like I need to push through any and all pain to just keep moving. That's a very unhealthy way of thinking I began using when I was an adolescent - sometimes those old habits are hard to drop. I'm sure it helped me to survive then, but I don't need it anymore.


I'll keep all of your advice in mind as I move forward. Thanks again.


Luke

[Elphanigh]

Luke57,

I did the same thing for a long time. It is a great survival tool, but not great for living a life in my experience. I am sure with time it will become easier not to default to that particular survival instinct

[Kizzie]

Hey Elph - thanks for all the great info    Good suggestion re respecting my window of tolerance, I'm certain that will be key given what I went through before.   

I really do think we need therapeutic strategies that get more of the brain working on processing and managing trauma so I am hopeful about EMDR. And if it can get to the preverbal stuff so much the better as I came out of the gate into an NPD family. 

I did undergo neurofeedback 2 yrs ago and found it did a lot for me in terms of gaining some distance from and being more comfortable with a lot of my trauma, until I was back facing Trump's malignant NPD behaviour on a daily basis that is. I suspect I would be worse off if I hadn't had the NF. Unfortunately we moved to a more rural location and there's isn't anyone who does NF or I would have carried on with that. The new T I'm seeing told she is only one of three psychologists in this area who does EMDR and she is 45 minutes away.  The other two are 1-1/2 hours from where I live.  Anyway, our discussion about EMDR resonated with me because it does work on a neurological level and she does have lots of experience with trauma.  We're going to spend most of the first session on Sep 6th working on grounding and coping so that right there was a confidence booster.   

Luke - hope your session today went well.   

[Elphanigh]

Hi Kizzie, I am glad the info was helpful. Sometimes I question my ability to do that especially as I tend to ramble or over explain. I am really hopeful for you with the emdr. I have never done neurofeedback before but have heard a lot about it.  Sorry it is such a long drive to get to your T but I appluad you for still doing so 

[Luke57]

Hi Kizzie,

My first session with new T went well. She seems like a very understanding and empathetic person. ( Which is what I need rather than somebody that's cold and distant,) She said the next 4-5 weeks would be her getting to know me, This week I'm supposed to write down my earliest memories of abuse. So here we go!


Looking forward to hearing about your session on the 6th.


Luke

[sanmagic7]

congrats to all you courageous people.  i admire your willingness to push forward with this.  i think it's wonderful.

one note re: 'no pain, no gain'.  as el mentioned, some of this stuff does hurt, is painful.  however, there's a big difference between feeling hurt and feeling damaged.  no damage should ever be present.  that's why the window of tolerance is so important, as well as the grounding, stabilizing, and coping skills that need to be learned and practiced before getting into the actual eye movement phase of emdr.

the flash method el mentioned is fairly new, but from what i've heard/read about, it's a very good tool for allowing a person to be able to tolerate memories/sensations because it helps them (the m/s) begin to become neutralized before having to remember in any sort of detail.   thus, pain is reduced as well as the actual impact of the m/s on our psyches.  (please correct me if i'm wrong, el).

and, yes, kizzie, emdr works with the brain, the neural connections that have held the memories/sensations which impact and trigger us to such a horrid extent.   i've even used it for physical stuff, like chronic pain (pain messages have their origin in the brain).   remember, you are always the boss of your sessions, while your t is a guide for you to utilize.  the focus should always be on you, what's best for you, and how to help you move forward to your goals.

my best to all of you going thru this.     

[Elphanigh]

Thank you dear San  It is good to hear some of my thoughts echoed.  You explained the flash method really well. Better than I could have phrased it. 

[Kizzie]

Luke - That's great to hear      I like that she's spending time getting to know you rather than diving right in. The first time I went to EMDR there was very little of that, we just jumped in    That's one of the things that made me more willing to try it with this new T, we spent the hour (plus 20 minutes actually) getting to know each other.  She told me about herself and not just the good stuff and that was just such a lovely invitation for me to be my authentic self.  She was also really adept at zeroing in on issues and asking relevant questions which told me she was really listening, reflecting critically and using her experience and training. All good!   

San - Tks again for the info, reassurance and guidance, it does help with the nervous part.   

[Elphanigh]

Kizzie, that sounds so much like my current T. I have so much hope for this new T of yours. I will be thinking of you on the 6th 

[Kizzie]

So I had my second session with my new T today and it went quite well.  I feel quite comfortable with her and confident that she's experienced, knowledgeable and caring. 

Today we didn't get into any actual EMDR but zeroed in on memories that represent the core beliefs I am struggling with. We started off talking about Trump and why I am struggling with his NPD so much, moved onto how my family's NPD affected me, and in the course of that came up with a number of traumatic memories to focus on in the EMDR sessions. 

We discovered that younger me is still very angry (or perhaps angry all over again  ) about how my parents and B devalued, discounted, manipulated & silenced me. The core belief I developed because of their behaviour is that I don't matter.  Understandably that makes younger me angry, but underneath is a lot of hurt, pain, hopelessness and powerlessness.  Being exposed to Trump on a daily basis reignited all of this.   

Anyway, it all resonated so I am actually looking forward to seeing if EMDR can help me to shift that belief.  I see her again in two weeks.