Is it wrong to feel this way? is it me, or is it her?

[Sienna]

Im putting this in the emotional flashbacks section, because this might also be an emotional flashback.
Once again, i just want to get something out.

I believe my X was a narc. His T and mine said he has narc traits.
He hurt me in the relationship.
I hurt him too.
He broke up with me, after 9 years, and did some really hurtful things even though we weren't in a relationship anymore. I cut contact with him.

This person, ill call her J, knew about how X hurt me and what he did.
She came and helped me move out all the stuff he packed into bin bags with out my permission after i left upset, and this was on my birthday.
He moved another girl in straight away after we talked about this and i said that whilst i was finding my own place and still living at his, i don't want her here.
T said that was reasonable as he is being disrespectful and selfish.
i moved out as they were in bed to gether despite agreeing on this, and his behaviour was scaring me.

She said she had relationships with narcs in her time, so she said she understood.
She said she was disappointed at his behaviour and what he did.

We have this group we go to, at the Allotment (as part of volunteering)
X didnt go to the group.
J believed that he was being considerate, despite evetytig else he did such as flaunting his new girlfriend in front of me, despite asking me how i felt about it, and yet still doing it.
But-
I thought that X was not coming to the Allotment because he knew that J was on my side (she said she was leaning more towards me as she had been there herself)
and he felt too uncomfortable, because J knew everything he had done.

Lately, i have been on a self destruct mission.
Started after a T session in which i felt invalidated.
As part of this self destruct mission, I told X that he could come to the allotment and asked J to get in touch with him to tell him that.
I am not going to go because its too hard to be around him.
I felt that -
during the relationship, be both hurt each other.
Only difference is, is that when the relationship was over, he continued to hurt me, whilst i didnt hurt him. So i felt justified in not wanting him to come back to the group, and J said she understood and that it was fine.
She even said she didnt really want him to come back.

After telling X that i wanted him to go back to the group, i told J that i warted him to come back, (she runs the group),
that it was not fair that he wasnt going to the group, and that i am just as bad as he is, that i hurt him a lot, if he did anything at all that was wrong.
(And this was all because of something T said in session, which i might have interpreted wrongly so i was taking all the blame)

J text me last night saying:
that X took me very seriously today when i said that i wanted him to come back and that he was very touched.
I replied saying (not that i was self destructing)
Im sure he did because he thinks I'm doing the right thing.
I said, i don't know if I'm doing the right thing but i don't like myself very much at the moment, so I'm just going to bow out.
She text back saying:
that it wont be easy but she thinks I'm doing the right thing and that it might make it easier in a way.
I understand the feeling of doubting yourself.
You are going through huge changes at the moment, so don't be so hard on your self.
This assessment cant be helping either.
Try to sleep.
---
Was i hoping sub consciously that people would see that I'm self destructing and want me to stop?
She seems to have changed her thinking to me. She is different to how she was at the beginning when i thought she was there for me.
I wonder if X has been saying things to her. They have been texting.
I dont trust her. She said he tries to remain neural but I'm thinking that maybe she believes whatever he has been saying to her.
I think that she might think that i am the bad one, that i am completely in the wrong and delusional.
I don't know if i am!!

After that text, i just felt so invalidated, brushed aside, as through known can see me, known cares, know one would even care if i died.
I couldn't express my rage cos of living with others, and it just felt too huge and scary.
I went walking at midnight and drank the rest of the night to dull my feelings.

Im in so much pain and i don't know if its my fault.
I have  known in the world. And i feel that know one is trustworthy.
This woman isn't here for me at all, and she hasnt been due to some of the other things she has been doing, which i don't know if its all in my head or not.
Sometimes, i just don't want to live anymore.
Im in so much pain and know one can help me.
Not even T it feels.
Know one would care even if they knew.
And i said to this woman when she told about an awful night she had and how alone she felt, that if she felt she could, to ring me if she wanted someone to be with her, or to talk to.
Maybe I'm thinking that she should have *known how i felt* last night but maybe my text wasnt clear.
Was it obvious from my text that i wasnt doing ok??
Are people just ignoring my pain?
Am i expressing it in an outer child way that doesnt convey my message that i want help to others properly?

i just hoped that she was trustworthy.
Even if she is, i cant trust it and then more dark thoughts come, such as, well, ill never be able to have a relationship anyway cos i cant trust.

What if theres more going on behind the scenes that I'm unaware of?
Im not sure if I'm a bad person...but I'm convincing others that i am, and they are believing me.
maybe I'm delusional if i think I'm not a bad person.

I am seriously considering going back on anti depressants because i feel just awful and everything feels so hopeless, and not just because of the text. This has been going on for about two weeks now.
i need to know if I'm seeing things wrongly, even if it hurts me.

it just feels that everyone believes my mother, not me (as in my dad- he backed up her behaviour and said she didnt do anything wrong, even though they are divorced)
and what if J believes my X?

[mourningdove]

You are a good person, Sienna!!! 

Feelings are never wrong, no matter what they are, so your feelings are not wrong. As far as your suspicions, I think they are reasonable, regardless of what's really going on. Trust is hard.

I believe you and am sorry that you are in so much pain. It's not your fault!

[Sienna]

Thanks mourning dove.

I guess feelings are not wrong. I was thinking about that last night, but I'm worried that they don't fit with the situation..thats more what i meant that i didnt explain.

Do you mean that my suspicions, you think they are reasonable? REGARDLESS of what is *actually* going on? Because trust is hard?
are you saying that its ok to be suspicious and to not trust others because trust is hard?

I hope your kind words are right, and i hope i deserve to hear them.
Thank you. 

[mourningdove]

Do you mean that my suspicions, you think they are reasonable? REGARDLESS of what is *actually* going on? Because trust is hard?
are you saying that its ok to be suspicious and to not trust others because trust is hard?

Sorry - I guess what I wrote could have been clearer. I just meant that while I cannot know whether or not there is truly anything for you to be concerned about regarding your friend, I don't think it's unreasonable for you to be suspicious, given the circumstances that you shared.

AND trust is hard regardless of what's going on - at least it is for me, and sounds like it is for you as well. I think that's one of the common themes of C-PTSD.

AND it's perfectly okay to be suspicious. It doesn't mean anything negative about you if you are.

I guess feelings are not wrong. I was thinking about that last night, but I'm worried that they don't fit with the situation..thats more what i meant that i didnt explain.

I know what you mean. Despite my opinion that feelings are never wrong, I wonder all the time if my own feelings fit with various situations. I think what I'm really worried about is whether I am accurately perceiving what's going on. I find it confusing because of how feelings and perceptions influence each other. 

I don't know if any of this makes sense, but I hope you can go easier on yourself.

[Sienna]

Mourning dove

That is what i thought you meant. Thanks for clarifying, and no worries at all about what you wrote.
I hope my capital lettering or the way my question was put, didnt make it sound like i was shouting at you through the screen.
I struggle majorly with trust too.

AND it's perfectly okay to be suspicious. It doesn't mean anything negative about you if you are.
I guess. Yeah. I just cant help acting out...not in a normal way, though when I'm angry, i have to try to hold myself together...but I'm not speaking to this person like i used to.
Im just shutting everyone out, not that there are many left now to shut out...since X i left all friends who were not good to me or supportive...
maybe i deserved them to leave. lot of negative thoughts lately...so i don't know.
maybe the thoughts are true.

This- you explained perfectly, and I'm sorry you struggle with this too.
I think what I'm really worried about is whether I am accurately perceiving what's going on. I find it confusing because of how feelings and perceptions influence each other. 
I worry i am distancing myself from her because I'm *unacuratley perceiving what is going on*, and maybe she doesnt get it and she might not know about lack of trust..even if she has similar issues... she just might not know what is going on..

I guess, i, or my outer critic...thinks that she thinks I'm crazy, but inside of me, I'm wondering if ive just got it all wrong. And then i wonder...what else in life have i gotten completely wrong? then i think..that maybe my X who i believe was a narc...maybe everting that he said was my fault...maybe it was.
Im not liking this thought loop very much at the moment but i can't just simply see it as negative thought spirals, because it might be true and based in reality.
Sorry for rambling. This is the first time ive been able to put this thought spiral that i believe is making me feel really down of late, into words. Thanks for listening.


ps. did you know, Spartanlifecoach, talked about not knowing the difference between an emotional flashback and intuition. He said that when we don't know...it means our boundaries are ... not strong enough / non existent...someting like that, and we need to separate EF's and intuition from each other (like being in two different boxes, not touching each other)

[radical]

Hi Sienna,

I agree, it's not a good idea to make decisions from the inside of an EF, and that it's important to know when you're in one.  That doesn't mean your feelings about your  relationship with your T aren't valid, just that, if you are like me, you can't sort anything out in your head when you are feeling like that. 

I guess, i, or my outer critic...thinks that she thinks I'm crazy, but inside of me, I'm wondering if ive just got it all wrong. And then i wonder...what else in life have i gotten completely wrong? then i think..that maybe my X who i believe was a narc...maybe everting that he said was my fault...maybe it was.

That's a familiar kind of loop for me, inside an EF - external blame/internal blame.  It feels horrible.  In fact, there are whole sets of frightening thought loops inside EFs, and I lose all sense of who I am.  All I can do is get some exercise if possible, to burn out a bit of the cortisol and write to myself in my journal, reassuring myself that this is an EF and it will pass.

Take care, Sienna.  I know how awful it feels.

[Danaus plexippus]

Due (I believe) to over medication, I have reacted out of proportion to the circumstances, often to my detriment. This YouTube video may help shed some light on the circumstances: https://youtu.be/gEiBDura9WU. Ok, I could not get that link to work, so look up the "Daylight out of Darkness" YouTube channel and search for the"Learned helplessness induced by narcissistic abuse" video. I don't know why the link does not work. You might find other helpful stuff on her channel too. I only just found her today and I already subscribed.

[Sienna]

Im sorry you reacted our of proportion Danaus. Its ok...although it wasnt ok..., its not your fault is what I mean. 

Thank you so much for the recommendation to look up her channel and the video!! Thats so great Danaus! 

[Sienna]

Hi Radical,

It seems you understand perfectly, and its comforting to hear that you have similar thought loops when you are in an EF.
I guess, maybe i am in an EF. But maybe this situation at present is a bad situation (that theres something wrong going on).
I always think...is it a flashback or due to the present...but maybe this time its both- i need to remember that it can be both.
Now my job is bigger- not only wondering if this situation is bad in the present, but trying to work out if I'm an EF too.

It is horrible. And you do loose sense of who you are! Im sorry you experience this too.
I don't know who iam...never have and have always been confused...but what i *wanted to believe was true that my T said to me*...now I'm not sure if it is.

Cortisol. Um,...yes. I was reading today about how feeling depressed releases cortisol. i guess these are stressful thoughts, and holding anger in is not good for the body.
I have been feeling flat and miserable but maybe thats due to holding in rage.

I hope that exercising helps you.
I want to measure myself that its an emotional flashback and that it will pass..that sounds great. I cant do that if i don't know that it is a flashback, and if i have inner voices telling me to self destruct (self destructive mindset) that is so strong that noting can pierce through this need to destroy myself...
does anyone know how to measure yourself your in a flashback if you don't know you are in one, or even if you do know you are = but you *cant* for what ever reason, let yourself trust that you are and that your not *crazy*?

Radical, i really appreciate your empathy and understanding. It makes all the difference. 

That's a familiar kind of loop for me, inside an EF - external blame/internal blame.  It feels horrible.  In fact, there are whole sets of frightening thought loops inside EFs, and I lose all sense of who I am.  All I can do is get some exercise if possible, to burn out a bit of the cortisol and write to myself in my journ1al, reassuring myself that this is an EF and it will pass.

Take care, Sienna.  I know how awful it feels.