Autism or CPTSD?

[BlueMoon_]

For a while I have wondered if I might have autism, for a couple of reasons, but a big one is it seems so impossible how people can just interact with each other and make friends so easily. It seems like I'm from another planet from everyone in the socializing department.

I also have other things that make me question if I'm autistic, but I'm not sure if they are strong enough to say for sure they are from autism. For example disliking loud noises, fidgeting around a lot, and liking routine.

I'm not sure enough about having autism to go and get diagnosed, though.

However I have read that symptoms of CPTSD can be similar to autism.

Are any of you guys autistic or wondered if you were autistic before, but found out it was CPTSD instead? How did you find out the difference? Thanks!

[storyworld]

Hello!
I am not autistic but wanted to reply to say that I saw your post and understand how confusing this might be. I've read that CPTSD can mimic ADHD. Since autism (I've heard) is supposedly related (loosely?) to ASD, it seems like there could be some crossover.

[Kizzie]

I read up on this and found this one sentence kind of says it best: "Autism is a neurodevelopmental disorder that presents in early childhood, whereas CPTSD is a mental health condition that emerges after exposure to complex trauma".

This is not to say you don't have autism though, the two can co-occur according to what I read.  Just Google something to the effect "Are autism and CPTSD the same thing?" and lots of info will pop up.

[sanmagic7]

hi, bluemoon,  i'm one of the lucky ones? to have c-ptsd and am also on the cusp of autism.  i can relate to your awkwardness in social interactions, feeling out of step, so to speak, with others, liking routine, including repetitive activities (i was the tetris queen in our household!), and am startled easily - altho i'm not sure if that's an autism or c-ptsd response.

i self-diagnosed w/ autism - i looked it up online - sorry, it's been a few years, and i can't give you a specific link - but i took the test twice, 6 mos. apart so as not to remember and simply repeat my answers.  once i was just on the border, and the second time i was one point on the autistic side of the border.

it explained a lot of my interactions w/ others throughout my life, while also dealing w/ dissociation, depersonalization, anxiety, sleep problems, intrusive thoughts and other symptoms of c-ptsd.  so, as far as i'm concerned, dealing with both (and alexithymia as well, which after researching that situation led me to check myself for autistic tendencies) at the same time is definitely a possibility.

best to you with all this.  it helped me to know.  i hope it helps you one way or the other.   

[Armee]

There's a book that might help:

Living with PTSD on the Autism Spectrum by Lisa Morgan, Mary Donahue: New Paperback (2020) | Rarewaves.com UK https://share.google/0zPbSit9tSAOVkPSq

When we've had symptoms of cptsd our whole lives and exposure to brain-altering trauma from a very young age, I don't know how you tease apart what is cpstd and what is autism and what is both.

There's an online psych testing platform for therapists you can sign up for an account and test yourself as a "dummy client." Novopsych.

There are at least 2 autism scale assessments. AQ and Ritvo. I score quite high on those for autism. I haven't been professionally assessed and won't be because i do not want a medical record of some of the other assessments i would score high on. I could be autistic but the things that drive my score high really are functions of trauma and cptsd. I'd suggest perhaps if you take the assessments, look at the questions that drove your scores high and think about if your answer is driven by something that is likely a trauma response or something more intrinsic. 

I think one thing that is helpful from the autism side of things is self-acceptance. Understanding that your difficulties are a form of neurodiversity and that you are OK just the way you are. We can apply that understanding to our experiences of cptsd symptoms too.

Sending you lots of support in figuring out what you would like to understand about yourself. 

[Saluki]

I can't tell if I'm autistic or if it's just CPTSD or both and I'm not sure if it matters.
The thing I don't know if I relate to or not is routine.

I can't cope at all with routines that are imposed by others, not at all. They fill me with a sense of dread and foreboding.

But I have my own routines. One recent example that really upset me was the NYT mini crossword puzzle being suddenly stuck behind a paywall. Then they did the same with two other puzzles.
They were part of my daily routine.
The fact that the way they lured me in by offering it for free then taking it away hoping people will pay to subscribe feels incredibly manipulative.
And I hate feeling manipulated.

So I was wondering, is my extreme emotional reaction to that very minor thing autism, or is it CPTSD, or are the NYT puzzle people just mean spirited? (or all three?)

[Kizzie]

Hey Saluki I think most people will feel some irritation if something was free simply to lure you in and then start charging you, especially if they don't give you a warning (i.e., something like "Try our crossword free for 2 weeks then pay $$$/month). If you have a warning, then it's not being manipulated, you have choice and control. But when someone takes away our choice, especially as a survivor, we're bound to feel quite irritated/triggered because control was taken away from us by those who abused us. That could be either CPTSD or autism I suppose.

I worked in two jobs many years ago that were heavily micromanaged in terms of routine, etc. I ended up leaving within days in one job and a few months in the other. It was partly because who likes to be micromanaged, but due in large part to the feelings it triggered because of my CPTSD. I was very independent back then mainly because I didn't like feeling controlled by anyone - too much like my original family and the abuse I suffered.

In recent years I have been working on understanding what is actual loss of control/choice, and just the normal interdependence we all have and that's not going too badly. Like all symptoms of CPTSD I find it takes conscious recognition and trying out new ways of thinking about things. When it feels like someone is impinging on me I will set boundaries, but first I look at whether or not it is actually something I need a boundary for. It helps me manage life when I take a moment, take a breath and think things through.

Perhaps a way to tell if you're bothered due to autism or if it's CPTSD is to try what I've mentioned above. Is a change in routine by others something you can let go of if you pause, think about it and conclude it's not as big a deal as it first appears to be? Can you set a boundary when a routine does feels invasive, losing control/choice? (E.g., Saying something to the effect "I'm not comfortable with this.)? Perhaps if you try and still feel stuck maybe talking with a professional would help. 

Just some thoughts Saluki, hope something resonates     

[Blueberry]

So I was wondering, is my extreme emotional reaction to that very minor thing autism, or is it CPTSD, or are the NYT puzzle people just mean spirited? (or all three?)

I don't know much about autism, I don't think I have anything like that. What strikes me about your post is "very minor thing". Often what triggers me with my cptsd is what is seemingly a minor thing. I have discovered it is often just the tip of the iceberg, in other words there's a whole lot of other stuff going on underneath and possibly not just in me, sometimes in the other person too (things not spoken, things just assumed e.g.).

This minor seeming thing can be an old childhood hurt that I had to put away and put up with, never acknowledged by FOO, me never forgiven by FOO tho possibly I wasn't even at fault, they were instead. On the surface and rationally that may look minor, but it's not. I can't remember off-hand if you work with inner children or an inner child, but if you do, acknowledging this kind of thing with them can be quite healing. Not 100% I have found, but it reduces the triggering because the child you were is finally heard and acknowledged.

If that doesn't resonate at all, then that's fine.

[beet]

when I was diagnosed with autism they were at first hesitant because I couldn't remember enough of my childhood clearly and they said I definitely have autistic traits but they couldn't separate it from my trauma. After that they communicated with my sibling (my parents were not an option) and the information from my sibling confirmed my autism and I got the diagnosis no problem

The thing the therapists diagnosing me said is even if they had not given me that diagnosis that didn't mean I wasn't or that I couldn't consider myself autistic, just that my trauma made the diagnostic criteria murky for them.

[Saluki]

I don't think I got notifications for this thread so apologies that I didn't reply. I may have done but I don't think so.

I HATE being micromanaged SO MUCH! I get a physical sensation of... it's hard to describe... overwhelming horror and grief and panic. It's because my mother micromanaged my life, for years, every minute detail, even after I left home she tried to continue this control. Then my ex husband commanded me to do everything for him,controlled everything I did, everyone I saw, down to what I was allowed to wear and when I was allowed to sleep. What I was allowed to eat. The control and abuse was MASSIVE but at the time - because obviously, it started with "tiny things"- otherwise I wouldn't have married him - and they weren't really tiny things at all, looking back they were enormous bright scorching glowing RED flags. BUT  probably because I was gaslit and DARVOed a lot as a child, I never learnt to recognise when someone/something wasn't right.

Now I mostly have nobody telling me what to do (well, nobody bossing me around at all) I feel a bit (actually, a lot) adrift, and that's a HUGE RELIEF - in many ways - and it's also very frustrating that I'm incapable of having any sort of actual physical routine/time schedule.
When I was working I was self employed (and not making ends meet) so it suited me to do things in my own time. I was able to work to deadlines so long as I was able to. When I started losing money because I'd sent several people things for different people - because my brain couldn't figure out who ordered what - and when I started cancelling orders because I couldn't cope with the thought of walking to the post office - that was devastating because I was so proud of myself for working for myself.

Seemingly a minor thing...

Yes so many "minor things" built up into an avalanche. I learnt to pretend (to myself as well as others) things were minor when actually they were part of a bigger picture.

I feel extremely overwhelmed and unable to think straight, let alone have a routine, and I'm not sure if I want one (I haven't paid for the NYT crossword and I've got used to just doing Wordle, but it's still sad).

[lowbudgetTV]

I've been reading this thread some so I thought I'd finally add my thoughts and what I... Believe and follow in my life, I guess?

Where I'm at in my life, all my pieces feel very intertwined and enmeshed together. As it should be, considering that's how humans are made unique individuals! But, the concept of identity is blurred.

I have been diagnosed/identified with Autism for a large chunk of my life. I have identified and been diagnosed with C/PTSD for a much smaller time. Both are still presently significant to me but because I live in the present they both still feel equally important.

I am honestly lucky to have the life facts to feel confident that I do have autism due to things present when I was really, really young. Despite even that, it does create a sort-of "chicken and the egg" situation. Did my autism exacerbate my PTSD or was trauma so present when I was even a young toddler that I'm no different than any other autistic person?

Through my life I've been interested in psychology and trying to help myself. I knew something was wrong with me throughout my life, whether it be social skills or health. I've come to this conclusion:

What would diagnosis do for you? It's a good question to ask yourself. Many people ask this because, sadly, there can be downsides to being formally diagnosed with various things. Some systems aren't kind to certain people. But, if something feels so bad to you that diagnosis can lead to helpful treatment, then pursue it if you can.

Otherwise, I live like this: even if I'm not [insert blank thing here], if the tricks and tools used for that group help me, then I'll use it! Many people would benefit from reading about or using things that help autistic people. I am not ADHD but sometimes tools for them also help me. We are not depriving someone else of assistance by doing something differently that helps us.

Read both about CPTSD and autism if you feel they're helpful to you. Am I still autistic even if I found out it was definitely still CPTSD? I feel as such, because I am close and respect and continue to feel welcome in those spaces and communities and their "tricks" work perfect for me. Besides... I'm technically only diagnosed formally with PTSD, but C-PTSD materials help and speak to me more, so I feel more identity towards that. But, still, sometimes the only stuff out there that speaks to other aspects of me is made "for" Autism.

TLDR: If the shoe fits, wear it. Especially if it helps your weirdly shaped, unique foot. This is a metaphor brought to you by insoles made for weird arches.

OH! And I also feel you Saluki. I miss the mini crossword. Darn you NYT.

[Francis5]

Hi everyone

This is a great topic that I'm heavily invested in

I'm autistic but I didn't realize it until about a year ago (in my 50s)
My theory is that trauma symptoms are so loud that they hide autism, and it was only after significant healing that the autism came to light.

Now I've been a year trying to come to terms with my autism, hoping for the day I'll just accept that I was beautifully made and not flawed in some way.
I thought it was like peeling layers of trauma to uncover autism, but then I saw an image of a trojan horse labelled trauma with autism labelled inside. This made way more sense to me as it likely takes breaking, not peeling to uncover.

My trauma was early - I've learned that I got very good at masking. The autism was probably a trigger for my parents which brought way more harm to me.
I still mask today probably way more than I don't.

Anyway, I thank you all for sharing. I like how Armee said it

I think one thing that is helpful from the autism side of things is self-acceptance. Understanding that your difficulties are a form of neurodiversity and that you are OK just the way you are. We can apply that understanding to our experiences of cptsd symptoms too.