“Training” at work on PA

[Phoebes]

TW PA




Each year we have to do a bunch of trainings at work. A few are on sensitive topics. They say "the following contains sensitive topics. Take care." And then proceeds with the highly triggering trainings that we are required to do and take tests on. 

I believe I get highly triggered with the PA one, because it describes PA as "causing injury like broken bones, cigarette burns and bruises"(what are we, a movie from the 50's?)  and throw in the disclaimer that "this does NOT include reasonable discipline." And of course doesn't define that.

You know who thinks they used reasonable discipline? My NM. And by discipline, it meant making a peep. Having a like or dislike = "rebellion" (cause for discipline). Saying anything to abuse or to lies= "talking back" (discipline). And so forth. I'm sure you get the message.

She DID leave marks, she did physically harm me. She DID call out of control beatings "spanking" and then claims to forget they ever happened. But the emotional torture of her PA was the worst part. What about the body part being "spanked" is the FACE, and you're not allowed to BLOCK the strikes? My facial bones aren't broken so I wasn't abused I guess!

My question is, why could my mother call it whatever she wanted, do whatever she wanted, and since I didn't show up to school with a broken arm, I was not abused? Still today that is the training. I was a train wreck at school and not one teacher questioned me. I still can't make eye contact with people (which now come to find out is a trait of narcissists!)

I know there have been threads about this ("spanking is abuse") topic. I believe I shouldn't have to rewatch these over and over. Who creates these? Are they a legitimate authority on abuse? I went looking deep into the website and cannot even find a contact form on the subject.

Anyway, sorry to rant while triggered. If someone is a "spanker" snooping around on here, you need to know that any form of striking is interpreted by a young child as life long shame that will be very hard to reverse before long being in no contact with you. Choose wisely.

[Blueberry]

I hear you Phoebes. Sending care.

[Chart]

I hear you too Phoebes. I'm so sorry.

 I DID use spanking on my two oldest children. I regret that very much. I've spoken with them and apologized. I know it was wrong. With my very youngest I made the decision at her birth to never use corporal punishment. And I have never and never will (she's eleven now). Your story makes me sad for all children who have to cope with violent abusive parents (which I also experienced). Looking back I see that just being a victim myself didn't automatically cause an alternate behavior. I always knew it was wrong, but my own trauma contained a deep seated anger that for many years could sometimes overwhelm me. It has taken awhile for me to gain understanding and control. We have to raise awareness and I applaud you for doing that. Thank you.

[NarcKiddo]

I hear you, too. My mother prided herself on her physical discipline never leaving long term physical evidence. Every aspect of her physical discipline practices proved [to her] that she was a loving mother and it was explained to us often about how it proved that. She never apologised, and never would because she believes her actions were entirely justified. Only recently she was recalling the most egregious example (done to me, but she was speaking as if she thought it was done to my sister) and commenting that if it was done today the social services would be involved. Which she thought was dreadful and explains why the youth of today are out of control. Sigh.

I am sorry you are having to deal with this PA training, Phoebes. I totally understand why it would be so upsetting and triggering.

[Phoebes]

Chart- thank you for sharing your experience. This is why it is so wrong for "reasonable discipline" to be left up for interpretation by parents. There is no reasonable hitting, striking, whipping, spanking, beating with no broken arm. No version is productive in changing behavior other than creating fear, anger, resentment and causing a break in the relationship and trust. It's well-documented and researched so I don't even know why it's still up for debate by whoever the powers that be are.

 I'm glad you were able to sincerely apologize. My mom will not and still hasn't, because "she just did what was done to her," and I "just need to forgive and let it go, because I'm too sensitive." Is the not the most cliche? Makes me feel silly I didn't know for so long. But I digress..If my mom could have ever sincerely apologized and changed her view of it, we would likely have a relationship.but she'd probably also have to be somewhat accountable for her emotional abuse, and she's still doing that stuff. I'm just not there for it.

Thank you for sharing your experience, too, NarcKiddo..your mom's entitlement really mirrors mine too..I recall her actually joking about it to others and in front of me in a way that was like "of course" she is a great mother because she doesn't "let me get away with things other parents do." By that she meant she didn't let me get away with being myself, being a person, having feelings or a right to live. I always had the feeling that everyone else got to be themselves and I would never be allowed. I stopped even asking or trying by about age 13, which is when she stopped PA, and doubled down on EA.

Anyway, I'm sure these people writing the script of what constitutes PA think spanking is great are like my cousin by marriage who says "I was 'whooped' and I turned out just fine!" (Meanwhile with all kinds of inexplicable health problems.)

[Chart]

Phoebes, Check out Rainydiary's journal. She seems to be having a slightly parallel experience to yours.

[Kizzie]

I think PA has always been associated with Big T abuse and things like shoving, being grabbed/pulled roughly, pinching, and even tickling when it goes too far are not considered abusive. But of course they are.

There was a member here whose parent would tickle them so much they could not catch their breath. A parent might think that's funny but it's not when the child doesn't want you to tickle them and you go so far they can't breathe. That's about power and enjoying inflicting PA that doesn't look like PA.

I alway cringe when I see YouTube videos in which a child is given a piece of lemon and then the adults laugh thinking the child's reaction is really funny. Same for scaring children because it's "funny". It's really not.

Anyway Phoebes, I'm so sorry you have to endure trainings that are triggering. Just my opinion of course but I think given the subject matter you would be well within your rights to talk with management about the trainings NOT really being trauma sensitive. A brusque warning simply does not do it. Better material and the opportunity for you to opt out would be reasonable IMO.

[Phoebes]

Thank you, Kizzie.. I get what you mean about those other more covert and less defined areas..oh gosh, all kinds of uncles and grandpa in there...to add a layer, my Grandpa was SA to me, and when I knew as a child that he coming in my room before dawn and waking me up by being tickled all over my chest and legs felt off, not to mention infuriating, it didn't occur at the time it was part of SA. Part of my family's abuse tactics involved all kinds of legalistic and false views on religion and "adults have the right, etc.."

..now I know that it was a "buffer" to remind me he is in control. All the other adults were like ohhhh, he just likes to play. I FELT it was off, but it had been long engrained I was not allowed to feel, and no one had believed me about the other SA stuff. On top of that, my mother's PA had conditioned me to fear speaking out, so when I conjured up the bravery to say something, I was not believed, and told by my grandmother she will disown me (age 10). So, PA played a huge role in my shutdown as a child and adult, inability to speak or protect myself from ANYone, chronic freeze,  and getting in relationships that mimicked that dynamic, and really long term dorsal fatal shut down.

The shoving and yanking, that goes along with whippings right? That was common for me. A sign of out of control impulsive behavior if the rage wasn't enough. but to her she says she only spanked me when I needed it. Cringe cringe cringe. Did she get off to my rear end? Seems like it. 

I wonder what the corporate training would be on a situation like that. I've gotta get out of this job. Seriously. I worry what kids are going through. I'd like to find a way to help..

[Phoebes]

Thanks chart, I will check it out!

[Mathilde]

I am sorry.

I think especially the older generation thinks PA is fine upbringing. I really dislike that.

I had a discussion with dad. He hit me in my face so hard that I fell on the kitchen floor. A while back. I tried to discuss this with him. He said he indeed spanked me. Using a word from my language that is very light spanking, and very humiliating for an adult woman. You use it for slapping a toddler on the diaper mildly for being naughty.

I told him it was unacceptable. And he indeed said things like "you did not need to go to hospital and did not break anything, so it was not that bad". Or "I was spanked a lot worse as a kid, that was normal". Or "maybe you just accidently fell over".

I told this to cps. And they think it is normal. They told me if he says it did not happen, I should respect that, because we all are allowed to have our own truth. And wished him good luck - not me.

So I get your frustration.

PA is more than broken bones. And spanking is never okay. I find it shocking they use this. Sorry.

[Phoebes]

WHAT!?!?  He hit you in the face as an adult?! That is called "assault" and it's illegal. You would not be out of line to press charges, but I hear what you are saying. Society, the system, church and family are perfectly fine with a parent abusing because it would be uncomfortable for them to intervene. It took me a long. Time to wrap my head around this, to unbrainwash myself, and I still have to revisit that sometimes.

I'm not sure how old you are but do you mean you called CPS as a minor yourself after the abuse, or the adult version? I know the adult version will say adults have their own choice whether to stay with abusers. I called them about a friend once and they showed up at the door and handed them a pamphlet. All it did was stir up drama about who would have told whoever called them.

I'm very riled up for you, Mathilde! If you are current in a position to potentially get physically assaulted, I truly support you in getting far far away.

[Kizzie]

I'm with Phoebes on this Mathilde - that is assault and no police or judge would dispute that. It's one clear cut area nowadays where we can hold abusers accountable by simply calling the police. Please do that if there is a next time (and I sincerely hope there isn't but abusers who are physical tend to get worse not better). You may even be able to call them now as police do understand you may have been too afraid when it happened but have worked up the courage to contact them now. It starts a file on him if nothing else and then there is a record of being called due to PA.

The other option is to get yourself away from him if that's within the realm of possibility. If you are underage you can call CPS and get them involved. It's hard, no doubt about that but you need to protect yourself and he needs to stop. 

[Mathilde]

Thank you both. The situation is real complex though. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I tried to express: I understand how frustrating it is if people see this as normal! But i am sometimes socially clumsy.

I do not know how to explain shortly. My kid lives with my dad. I cannot change this. I cannot leave. I reported since he was a newborn. Nobody helps.

My ex was abusive to the point of murder and kidnapping plans. I took me a long fight to protect my child.  I was a wreck and my parents took in kid. Dad has a caring side. But also comes from a narcissistic family. And it shows. There is a lot of covert abuse, and a bit of CSA/PA that I could prove. But until now, CPS doesn't listen.  Kid is treated better than me. And I also got severe PTSD and some reactive abuse...like screaming for it to stop or admitting I was suicidal. Which is wrong. And he now uses against me. He hid his abuse, and recorded my responses. He says he has a lot to use against me and nobody will believe me. He can absolutely make it seem all my fault (rather than partly, as is more true). He made clear that he will revenge me through kid if I speak. He did before.

I see my child regularly now. I am scared dad revenges through my child if I speak up. I did contact police and the new CPS. And I think I will tell the complete story. But I'm terrified of his response...

I really get what you say when you are unbrainwashing yourself. Society sees all this as normal. As long as there isn't brute force.

[Armee]

 

[Mathilde]

Thanks.