Recent posts
#1
General Discussion / Re: Don't envy the Narcissist ...
Last post by Chart - Today at 04:40:22 PMI'm very happy this thread is staying active and they're new responses and perspectives. I appreciated LeonLaviu's (brave, imo) opinion regarding "narcissists".
Imo, this is an important topic which only gets bigger as time and social/political systems deteriorate worldwide.
If we don't start FULLY understanding these individuals in power causing so much destruction, I believe we're doomed. And I seriously ask myself these questions regarding why toxic leaders continue to appeal to the majority.
Here're some thoughts I've had:
- Narcissism is a spectrum, not an all or nothing affair.
- Healthy "good" narcissism exists and is necessary, particularly during certain phases of development, but also serves healthy individuals in determining their self worth.
- Narcissism can only exist in a relationship. That's to say, toxic narcissist behavior is "permitted" by another person. This is not blame, but important to realize that a narcissist will be unsuccessful if the individual or group refute their assertions.
I like this concept as it gives me agency. Recently I've found a great deal of power and liberation in realizing just to what extent I enabled narcissists in my past. I've taken that experience and learned from it. I now feel greatly empowered when I engage with others on political and social subjects.
Just some of my thoughts. Gotta go make soup for my kids. I plan on doing it very un-narcissistically...
Imo, this is an important topic which only gets bigger as time and social/political systems deteriorate worldwide.
If we don't start FULLY understanding these individuals in power causing so much destruction, I believe we're doomed. And I seriously ask myself these questions regarding why toxic leaders continue to appeal to the majority.
Here're some thoughts I've had:
- Narcissism is a spectrum, not an all or nothing affair.
- Healthy "good" narcissism exists and is necessary, particularly during certain phases of development, but also serves healthy individuals in determining their self worth.
- Narcissism can only exist in a relationship. That's to say, toxic narcissist behavior is "permitted" by another person. This is not blame, but important to realize that a narcissist will be unsuccessful if the individual or group refute their assertions.
I like this concept as it gives me agency. Recently I've found a great deal of power and liberation in realizing just to what extent I enabled narcissists in my past. I've taken that experience and learned from it. I now feel greatly empowered when I engage with others on political and social subjects.
Just some of my thoughts. Gotta go make soup for my kids. I plan on doing it very un-narcissistically...
#2
Recovery Journals / Re: starting over
Last post by TheBigBlue - Today at 04:17:49 PM
See you on the porch.
#3
General Discussion / Re: progress notes nov 25
Last post by Chart - Today at 04:08:06 PMQuote from: JamesG3 on Today at 01:41:17 PMWalk away. Stay away. Be defiant in defence and open to real love, real beauty and real emotion.
#4
General Discussion / Re: Don't envy the Narcissist ...
Last post by TheBigBlue - Today at 04:05:10 PMI've really appreciated reading through this thread. The different views here gave me a lot to think about, and I'd love to add another perspective; not to dispute anything said, but to broaden the picture a bit.
For me, the idea that narcissists are inherently more intelligent doesn't completely hold. I don't think intelligence and narcissism correlate directly. Rather, some narcissistic individuals can look competent or successful because they channel a lot of energy into self-advancement, impression management, and power positioning. So just like in the general population, some are brilliant, some average, some struggle; but what can make them stand out is the focus with which they pursue admiration and status.
I also resonated with the discussion about success and danger. Narcissism alone (grandiosity/admiration-seeking) isn't always what produces societal power. Research often points to what's sometimes called the dark triad:
• narcissism: fragile self-esteem, need for admiration, self-importance, low emotional empathy
• Machiavellianism: strategic manipulation, charm used instrumentally
• psychopathy: very low empathy + high disregard for others' safety/needs/harm
It's often this combination - especially in systems that reward dominance and charisma over empathy - that allows certain personalities to rise in leadership or public life. And I do agree with Kizzie's point: when narcissistic traits meet entitlement, manipulation, and lack of accountability, the behavior can become predatory and genuinely dangerous, especially in positions of power or authority.
Something that helped me personally was learning a bit about the neurobiology of narcissism. Imaging studies in NPD have found differences in the brains such as:
• reduced gray-matter volume in the anterior insula (emotional attunement & empathy)
• altered prefrontal–amygdala response to shame/criticism
• ego threat triggers fight/flight, not reflection or insight
This explains why "calling out" narcissistic behavior rarely leads to change; their nervous system reads it as danger, not information. Knowing this shifted my expectations and helped me set boundaries with less hope for accountability that may never come, and more focus on protecting my own nervous system.
What I'm taking away from this thread:
• Narcissists aren't necessarily more intelligent - just differently focused.
• They may thrive in cultures that reward dominance over empathy.
• Their success can look shiny, but is often fragile or built on exploitation.
Survivors often develop another kind of intelligence: reflective, slow-growing, earned through pain. There's strength in that. A different kind of success. One with depth and soul.
Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion, it feels good to explore this together rather than alone. 💛
For me, the idea that narcissists are inherently more intelligent doesn't completely hold. I don't think intelligence and narcissism correlate directly. Rather, some narcissistic individuals can look competent or successful because they channel a lot of energy into self-advancement, impression management, and power positioning. So just like in the general population, some are brilliant, some average, some struggle; but what can make them stand out is the focus with which they pursue admiration and status.
I also resonated with the discussion about success and danger. Narcissism alone (grandiosity/admiration-seeking) isn't always what produces societal power. Research often points to what's sometimes called the dark triad:
• narcissism: fragile self-esteem, need for admiration, self-importance, low emotional empathy
• Machiavellianism: strategic manipulation, charm used instrumentally
• psychopathy: very low empathy + high disregard for others' safety/needs/harm
It's often this combination - especially in systems that reward dominance and charisma over empathy - that allows certain personalities to rise in leadership or public life. And I do agree with Kizzie's point: when narcissistic traits meet entitlement, manipulation, and lack of accountability, the behavior can become predatory and genuinely dangerous, especially in positions of power or authority.
Something that helped me personally was learning a bit about the neurobiology of narcissism. Imaging studies in NPD have found differences in the brains such as:
• reduced gray-matter volume in the anterior insula (emotional attunement & empathy)
• altered prefrontal–amygdala response to shame/criticism
• ego threat triggers fight/flight, not reflection or insight
This explains why "calling out" narcissistic behavior rarely leads to change; their nervous system reads it as danger, not information. Knowing this shifted my expectations and helped me set boundaries with less hope for accountability that may never come, and more focus on protecting my own nervous system.
What I'm taking away from this thread:
• Narcissists aren't necessarily more intelligent - just differently focused.
• They may thrive in cultures that reward dominance over empathy.
• Their success can look shiny, but is often fragile or built on exploitation.
Survivors often develop another kind of intelligence: reflective, slow-growing, earned through pain. There's strength in that. A different kind of success. One with depth and soul.
Thank you all for the thoughtful discussion, it feels good to explore this together rather than alone. 💛
#5
Recovery Journals / Re: starting over
Last post by Chart - Today at 03:58:53 PMQuote from: sanmagic7 on Today at 01:34:29 PMi wonder if all those good feelings about the beatles, that time in my life, kind of overwhelmed my brain, like too many endorphins or somethingSan, this struck me. I recently had a "positive" experience as well. A feeling of attraction that I sensed was mutual. After, I felt deeply deeply sad. Not exactly an ef, but close and it lasted a good 48 hours. I think we are so hyper-sensitive even things that are good and positive can nonetheless be triggering. It's like the brightness highlights the black.
The list of annoying aspects of Cptsd just never seems to quit, does it?
#6
Recovery Journals / Re: Ran's journey
Last post by Chart - Today at 03:49:59 PMGlad to hear the medication is helping, Ran.
#7
Recovery Journals / Re: starting over
Last post by Desert Flower - Today at 03:07:33 PMHej San, it seems you we're in a similar space that I was and I'm very sorry you were. It's very scary to be there. I'm very happy you seem to have made it through all right. And I'm so glad the forum helped you the way it did.
Lots of love dear San en take some extra care, big hugs for you
Lots of love dear San en take some extra care, big hugs for you
#8
General Discussion / Re: Don't envy the Narcissist ...
Last post by JamesG3 - Today at 01:50:48 PMNarcicists push hard upwards, usually using shock and awe tactics or criticising other people into the rungs of a ladder. But it never lasts, they go up, they over reach, then they fail, and fail LARGE. At some point they have to prove their value with actual ability, and they rarely have anything to give beyond manipulation, exploitation and lies. Doesn't stop em trying.
Grab your popcorn, put a log on the fire, and wait.
Grab your popcorn, put a log on the fire, and wait.
#9
General Discussion / Re: progress notes nov 25
Last post by JamesG3 - Today at 01:46:50 PMmeant to ask Kizzie... did your CPTSD book come out?
#10
General Discussion / Re: progress notes nov 25
Last post by JamesG3 - Today at 01:41:17 PMThanks Kizzie. I dunno, I've reached this point where I've shone a torch into every corner, changing the bulb each time I get a new nugget, or diagnosis. It's great to know what's wrong with ME, but blimey... what in the name of all that is reasonable, was wrong with THEM?
How many of us in here are trying to make sense oof what is just plain inexplicable? We want answers, but how can there be answers for some of these utter monster and their flying monkeys? My heart breaks for all of us here, because no one deserves what we've had to endure. Should we carry any of their guilt, shame and corruption, the negligence and the selfishness for them? No, and I refuse to even think about doing that any more. These people have turned a blind eye to every shred of decency and moral code that all of us... ALL of us, are made aware of through religion, art, literature, experience and folklore. We have rules, we have norms, but we have these people who walk amongst us and they do unspeakable things, or allow it to occur in plain view without intervention and tho small in number, they cause MAYHEM.
But we can't do their work for them. We have to prove them wrong by severance, finding the good and broadcasting it and living lives free of thee poison they seem to like.
Walk away. Stay away. Be defiant in defence and open to real love, real beauty and real emotion.
How many of us in here are trying to make sense oof what is just plain inexplicable? We want answers, but how can there be answers for some of these utter monster and their flying monkeys? My heart breaks for all of us here, because no one deserves what we've had to endure. Should we carry any of their guilt, shame and corruption, the negligence and the selfishness for them? No, and I refuse to even think about doing that any more. These people have turned a blind eye to every shred of decency and moral code that all of us... ALL of us, are made aware of through religion, art, literature, experience and folklore. We have rules, we have norms, but we have these people who walk amongst us and they do unspeakable things, or allow it to occur in plain view without intervention and tho small in number, they cause MAYHEM.
But we can't do their work for them. We have to prove them wrong by severance, finding the good and broadcasting it and living lives free of thee poison they seem to like.
Walk away. Stay away. Be defiant in defence and open to real love, real beauty and real emotion.