Recent posts
#1
Recovery Journals / Re: the next step
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 04:58:34 PMthank you, TBB - the session will be in about 3 hrs., so i'm sitting here in my anxiety waiting for it. i do hope it goes smoothly. this has been awfully stressful for me, and i'd like it to be done, get to the actual therapizing part and resume healing w/ help and guidance.
#2
Recovery Journals / Re: The tipping point…
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 04:56:26 PMdear chart, i'm so sorry you're having a tough time right now, and i sincerely hope you're doing better now. it hit me in the head, reading about you sitting in all that pain, how you told me you were fascinated by the fact that i didn't feel that kind of pain, at least not normally. i'm guessing i feel, instead, some sense of distress w/in me, like watching that video caused me, and cuz i don't know what the distress is about, i simply turn away and turn it off.
i don't know if the distress i feel is connected to pain or not, but from the one time not too long ago when i was overwhelmed by the pain resulting from the incident when i was a little girl, again, i can't imagine living for any length of time just working at mustering thru it. i give you so much credit for being with it, allowing it, letting it run its course. your determination and just plain gutsiness is showing! i admire you for being able to do this. you are an inspiration. love and gentle hugs
i don't know if the distress i feel is connected to pain or not, but from the one time not too long ago when i was overwhelmed by the pain resulting from the incident when i was a little girl, again, i can't imagine living for any length of time just working at mustering thru it. i give you so much credit for being with it, allowing it, letting it run its course. your determination and just plain gutsiness is showing! i admire you for being able to do this. you are an inspiration. love and gentle hugs
#3
Recovery Journals / Re: Living As All of Me
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 04:45:29 PMQuoteI was restrained and abused and ignored. Somehow, by reading the details of how the biological responses in me were absolutely caused by the removal of my defenses when I was young,Quotei agree with this wholeheartedly. our defense mechanisms were removed or altered somehow by the messages we received, which told us to stay small, hidden, or, the flip side of the coin, to lash out in some way, be seen and heard negatively as big as possible. it's amazing to me how our systems work to keep us as safe as possible. love and hugs
#4
Recovery Journals / Re: Papa Coco's Recovery Journ...
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 04:36:43 PMrate, PC. i sent a reply and lost it. the gist of it was that i echoed what TBB said, and that i, too, left organized religion quite a while ago. i found spirituality finally at an AA meeting, and even tho i didn't ever feel it in church, i knew immediately what it was - like a bolt of lightning! what a feeling!
i'm sending you love and a gentle hug (if you're ok w/ that) filled with calm, peace, and strength to keep going. we're here with you, we are connected, and we've got you.
i'm sending you love and a gentle hug (if you're ok w/ that) filled with calm, peace, and strength to keep going. we're here with you, we are connected, and we've got you.
#5
Recovery Journals / Re: Papa Coco's Recovery Journ...
Last post by Papa Coco - Today at 04:25:00 PMDolly, Chart, TheBigBLue, and everyone,
I feel a closeness with you and the other forum members that I can't feel with friends out in the cold, cruel world. I have friends who struggle as much as we do, but they still don't realize the value of opening up and talking about it, so they continue to suffer without any support.
I learned something beautiful from a book Dolly was reading. Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed: Help and Hope for Adults in the Family Scapegoat Role by Rebecca C Mandeville. I bought a copy and found myself crying while reading the first chapters, as it kind of triggered my sense of how serious their abuse really was to me. The book is a small, introductory book about how being scapegoated as a child affected me as an adult. In the 8th chapter, the author wrote that families and social groups don't usually consciously choose to single out a child and blame them for all the problems, it happens organically to families or groups who don't realize their own traumatic damage, and they tend to usually, organically, subconsciously choose their strongest, most resilient, most empathetic and loving child to put all their grief onto.
Many times on this forum, I've said things about how I believe we are the strongest and most helpful people on earth. We're the "light of the world" and "the salt of the earth" and any other old saying that we've heard and dismissed. I see our suffering as a result of us knowing how unfair life is, and that's what makes us not feel okay with abuse. We can't even watch abuse done to others on the News or in movies. We're so aware of the unfairness, that we suffer. Not because we're bad, but because we're good.
This author makes sense when she explains why this is so: Subconsciously, people don't ask for help from people they know can't help them. People don't put burdens onto people who aren't strong enough to bear that burden. When I think about it logically, it makes sense: Broken people find stronger people to carry their burdens. We are chosen by broken people to carry their guilt and shame for them because we can. They can't give their weaknesses to other weak people. They have to give them to people who are strong enough to carry them. The author explains this much better than I do, but when I read that (over and over, almost in tears again), I started to see the truth in it. Our abusers are so fragile they can't handle their own burdens, so they find the best, and kindest, and strongest to put all their self-loathing onto. We are so strong that we take it. It's not fair, but it's how the dysfunctional family balances itself by putting its weaknesses onto the strongest, most durable and functional member.
In my own life, I can remember times when the evilest of my siblings was challenged by life and if she couldn't put the burden or blame onto someone else, she completely and totally melted down into crying and wailing and slamming doors and collapsing into herself. She believed she was stronger than me as long as she could deflect and blame her own evil onto me, but when she had to handle her own dysfunction, she completely imploded.
This really REALLY helps me in my newly formed ability to love myself even when I'm in a nasty EF that makes me feel weak and unsafe. I may be in a panic at times, but I don't hate myself anymore.
(Dolly, I have to give you another gracious thank you for mentioning that book).
I feel a closeness with you and the other forum members that I can't feel with friends out in the cold, cruel world. I have friends who struggle as much as we do, but they still don't realize the value of opening up and talking about it, so they continue to suffer without any support.
I learned something beautiful from a book Dolly was reading. Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed: Help and Hope for Adults in the Family Scapegoat Role by Rebecca C Mandeville. I bought a copy and found myself crying while reading the first chapters, as it kind of triggered my sense of how serious their abuse really was to me. The book is a small, introductory book about how being scapegoated as a child affected me as an adult. In the 8th chapter, the author wrote that families and social groups don't usually consciously choose to single out a child and blame them for all the problems, it happens organically to families or groups who don't realize their own traumatic damage, and they tend to usually, organically, subconsciously choose their strongest, most resilient, most empathetic and loving child to put all their grief onto.
Many times on this forum, I've said things about how I believe we are the strongest and most helpful people on earth. We're the "light of the world" and "the salt of the earth" and any other old saying that we've heard and dismissed. I see our suffering as a result of us knowing how unfair life is, and that's what makes us not feel okay with abuse. We can't even watch abuse done to others on the News or in movies. We're so aware of the unfairness, that we suffer. Not because we're bad, but because we're good.
This author makes sense when she explains why this is so: Subconsciously, people don't ask for help from people they know can't help them. People don't put burdens onto people who aren't strong enough to bear that burden. When I think about it logically, it makes sense: Broken people find stronger people to carry their burdens. We are chosen by broken people to carry their guilt and shame for them because we can. They can't give their weaknesses to other weak people. They have to give them to people who are strong enough to carry them. The author explains this much better than I do, but when I read that (over and over, almost in tears again), I started to see the truth in it. Our abusers are so fragile they can't handle their own burdens, so they find the best, and kindest, and strongest to put all their self-loathing onto. We are so strong that we take it. It's not fair, but it's how the dysfunctional family balances itself by putting its weaknesses onto the strongest, most durable and functional member.
In my own life, I can remember times when the evilest of my siblings was challenged by life and if she couldn't put the burden or blame onto someone else, she completely and totally melted down into crying and wailing and slamming doors and collapsing into herself. She believed she was stronger than me as long as she could deflect and blame her own evil onto me, but when she had to handle her own dysfunction, she completely imploded.
This really REALLY helps me in my newly formed ability to love myself even when I'm in a nasty EF that makes me feel weak and unsafe. I may be in a panic at times, but I don't hate myself anymore.
(Dolly, I have to give you another gracious thank you for mentioning that book).
#6
Recovery Journals / Re: The tipping point…
Last post by NarcKiddo - Today at 03:59:08 PMThat Schore video was really interesting, Chart. And very relevant to my own circumstances, as far as I can tell.
The quote Dolly shared in her latest post feels very relevant, too. Roles in my family were somewhat fluid - the only certain thing was that whoever the scapegoat may have been at any given time, it was not my mother! When my parents married my mother was already very clear she wanted children. I am not sure about my father but I think he intellectually liked the idea of having a son and heir. Which he never got. However, my mother regularly expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage, but stayed in it for the sake of the children, she said. It was a heavy load.
Chart, I am sorry you were dealing with dysregulation yesterday. Well done for feeling your way through it and I hope things are more comfortable today.
The quote Dolly shared in her latest post feels very relevant, too. Roles in my family were somewhat fluid - the only certain thing was that whoever the scapegoat may have been at any given time, it was not my mother! When my parents married my mother was already very clear she wanted children. I am not sure about my father but I think he intellectually liked the idea of having a son and heir. Which he never got. However, my mother regularly expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage, but stayed in it for the sake of the children, she said. It was a heavy load.
Chart, I am sorry you were dealing with dysregulation yesterday. Well done for feeling your way through it and I hope things are more comfortable today.
#7
Recovery Journals / Re: Living As All of Me
Last post by Papa Coco - Today at 03:58:00 PMHannahOne
Today I'm trying to remember what it was that helped me to come out of self-loathing, and I think I'm finally able to see how I came to be a traumatized, easily triggered CPTSD'r who finally doesn't hate myself for it. So I'll just bear witness to what happened to me. I know we're all as different as we are similar, so, I'll share my story, and hope there can be something in it that can help you with your story. (To be honest, when I share my stories with others, it helps bring ME more clarity to my experiences too).
For me, it's only been a few months since I started feeling like I don't hate myself anymore. (I found self-loathing at the age of 7, so I felt it for 58 years). I think the thing that finally got me to feel in my heart that I'm not the problem is when I read a book or two that helped explain the biology of how the mammal brain works. It was Peter Levine's book, In an Unspoken Voice, where he detailed out how any mammal is designed to recover from trauma by using the built-in survival techniques we were born with. We knew how to feed, how to breath, and how to cry for help. That's it. If we were feeding and breathing and able to get our tribes to help us when we cried, we could overcome nearly any trauma--just like Frank does. But when we cried out for help and our caregivers either ignored us or hurt us, then the natural flow of energy to our survival mechanisms were pinched off, causing a predictable and natural inability to get past the traumas that happened to us. When I read that, in his scientifically detailed and believable explanation, it's like I heard my brain say to me, "this really WASN'T MY FAULT!" I think I immediately came to the forum and wrote "I finally feel the one thing I've always wanted. I feel FORGIVEN!" And immediately after I wrote that my brain said one more thing, "Now you know that you never needed to be forgiven in the first place!"
What happened inside me to make me suffer for 58 years believing I couldn't be forgiven for being who I am, was I realized how it was 100% predictable biological altering of my natural programming that was playing itself out exactly how it does in any mammal that has its core defenses muted during the formative years. To make this even more innocent, I learned from Levine, that in lab experiments with mammals, it's been proven that if a mammal is restrained while being violated or hurt in any way (And this can include a child being held down in a dentist chair or surgical procedure), the brain's rewiring is far more permanent, because being unable to flail the arms or legs rewires the brain even faster. When a mammal can "go down fighting" they can recover from trauma easier than when they go down unable to fight back at all. I feel like being unable to defend myself against my own "tribe's" lifetime of lies, smear campaigns, and forcing me to live as a servant to them, was an emotional version of being defenseless against my abusers. I've been restrained physically AND I've been restrained emotionally. The only two ways I could go were: I either hated the world and became a bad person, or I hated myself so I could become a good person. I chose to be a good person, so I hated myself instead of hating them. I suspect that's common with us here in the forum. We were the ones who turned on ourselves so we would not become what our abusers were.
In me, this has made me, not only a fawner and a freezer, but it's made me feel completely unable to defend myself in any situation. I sometimes imagine what it might be like if I ever have to get into a fist fight, or run from a gunfight or anything, and for the life of me, I cannot imagine myself having the arm strength to strike any predator. In my own mind, when trying to imagine how I'd fight off a shark or bear or human attack, my arms and legs suddenly feel like they are filled with concrete. I've never struck another human or animal. I don't believe I have the physical ability to. I can lift more than most men. I can work harder than most men, but I can't find any energy in me that believes I can defend myself if I ever need to. That inability to defend myself used to be proof that I'm worthless and unlovable, but now it's proof that I was restrained and abused and ignored. Somehow, by reading the details of how the biological responses in me were absolutely caused by the removal of my defenses when I was young, I had one of those epiphanous "Ah HA!" moments that sometimes happen in life when we suddenly realize things are not how I'd previously believed they were. Somehow, seeing under the hood to how my brain did what it did so I could be a good person, helped me overcome my self-loathing.
I don't know if this helps others as much as it helps me, but when I can finally get the chance to look under the hood to see how the engine really works, it helps me to know what I'm really driving.
I hope this helps in any small way.
Today I'm trying to remember what it was that helped me to come out of self-loathing, and I think I'm finally able to see how I came to be a traumatized, easily triggered CPTSD'r who finally doesn't hate myself for it. So I'll just bear witness to what happened to me. I know we're all as different as we are similar, so, I'll share my story, and hope there can be something in it that can help you with your story. (To be honest, when I share my stories with others, it helps bring ME more clarity to my experiences too).
For me, it's only been a few months since I started feeling like I don't hate myself anymore. (I found self-loathing at the age of 7, so I felt it for 58 years). I think the thing that finally got me to feel in my heart that I'm not the problem is when I read a book or two that helped explain the biology of how the mammal brain works. It was Peter Levine's book, In an Unspoken Voice, where he detailed out how any mammal is designed to recover from trauma by using the built-in survival techniques we were born with. We knew how to feed, how to breath, and how to cry for help. That's it. If we were feeding and breathing and able to get our tribes to help us when we cried, we could overcome nearly any trauma--just like Frank does. But when we cried out for help and our caregivers either ignored us or hurt us, then the natural flow of energy to our survival mechanisms were pinched off, causing a predictable and natural inability to get past the traumas that happened to us. When I read that, in his scientifically detailed and believable explanation, it's like I heard my brain say to me, "this really WASN'T MY FAULT!" I think I immediately came to the forum and wrote "I finally feel the one thing I've always wanted. I feel FORGIVEN!" And immediately after I wrote that my brain said one more thing, "Now you know that you never needed to be forgiven in the first place!"
What happened inside me to make me suffer for 58 years believing I couldn't be forgiven for being who I am, was I realized how it was 100% predictable biological altering of my natural programming that was playing itself out exactly how it does in any mammal that has its core defenses muted during the formative years. To make this even more innocent, I learned from Levine, that in lab experiments with mammals, it's been proven that if a mammal is restrained while being violated or hurt in any way (And this can include a child being held down in a dentist chair or surgical procedure), the brain's rewiring is far more permanent, because being unable to flail the arms or legs rewires the brain even faster. When a mammal can "go down fighting" they can recover from trauma easier than when they go down unable to fight back at all. I feel like being unable to defend myself against my own "tribe's" lifetime of lies, smear campaigns, and forcing me to live as a servant to them, was an emotional version of being defenseless against my abusers. I've been restrained physically AND I've been restrained emotionally. The only two ways I could go were: I either hated the world and became a bad person, or I hated myself so I could become a good person. I chose to be a good person, so I hated myself instead of hating them. I suspect that's common with us here in the forum. We were the ones who turned on ourselves so we would not become what our abusers were.
In me, this has made me, not only a fawner and a freezer, but it's made me feel completely unable to defend myself in any situation. I sometimes imagine what it might be like if I ever have to get into a fist fight, or run from a gunfight or anything, and for the life of me, I cannot imagine myself having the arm strength to strike any predator. In my own mind, when trying to imagine how I'd fight off a shark or bear or human attack, my arms and legs suddenly feel like they are filled with concrete. I've never struck another human or animal. I don't believe I have the physical ability to. I can lift more than most men. I can work harder than most men, but I can't find any energy in me that believes I can defend myself if I ever need to. That inability to defend myself used to be proof that I'm worthless and unlovable, but now it's proof that I was restrained and abused and ignored. Somehow, by reading the details of how the biological responses in me were absolutely caused by the removal of my defenses when I was young, I had one of those epiphanous "Ah HA!" moments that sometimes happen in life when we suddenly realize things are not how I'd previously believed they were. Somehow, seeing under the hood to how my brain did what it did so I could be a good person, helped me overcome my self-loathing.
I don't know if this helps others as much as it helps me, but when I can finally get the chance to look under the hood to see how the engine really works, it helps me to know what I'm really driving.
I hope this helps in any small way.
#8
Recovery Journals / Re: Miscellaneous ramblings of...
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 02:59:36 PMNK, i've had that yearning most all my life for my father to let me know he's proud of me. something unfulfilled, it feels like to me, something unsatisfied at a primal level. dang. we needed all these things, and got few if any. sucks. love and hugs
#9
Recovery Journals / Re: Living As All of Me
Last post by sanmagic7 - Today at 02:56:49 PMbeing a plant grower, i chuckled at yelling at the roots to see if they're growing yet, hannah1. that was great.
yep, we can only provide the conditions for our self-plant to grow, then nurture it w/ what it needs to keep growing and ultimately blooming. i like it. it's a good plant no matter what. love and hugs
yep, we can only provide the conditions for our self-plant to grow, then nurture it w/ what it needs to keep growing and ultimately blooming. i like it. it's a good plant no matter what. love and hugs
#10
Recovery Journals / Re: The tipping point…
Last post by dollyvee - Today at 12:52:45 PMChart, I have started reading "Scapegoating in Families: Intergenerational Patterns of Physical and Emotional Abuse," and came across this:
"In some families, children are brought into the world to "bind" the family unit, "to keep the family together." Many couples are in conflict before the child is born, and they hope that children will help the marriage. When the conflicts do not disappear, they stay together for the "sake" of the children. The resentment they have towards each other may be transferred to the children.
Most of the time, if the child has not been scapegoated, he or she is likely to feel a strong need to get away from the family conflict and pathology...The scapegoated child, especially if the scapegoating is a lifelong pattern, will probably feel responsible for all thee family pain and want to stay physically and emotionally in order to make amends."
I'm guessing that you are the former perhaps, but thought it was interesting and worthwhile perhaps if it was the latter. For me, this scapegoating stuff is another very difficult layer of entanglement as well as an obstacle to healing.
"In some families, children are brought into the world to "bind" the family unit, "to keep the family together." Many couples are in conflict before the child is born, and they hope that children will help the marriage. When the conflicts do not disappear, they stay together for the "sake" of the children. The resentment they have towards each other may be transferred to the children.
Most of the time, if the child has not been scapegoated, he or she is likely to feel a strong need to get away from the family conflict and pathology...The scapegoated child, especially if the scapegoating is a lifelong pattern, will probably feel responsible for all thee family pain and want to stay physically and emotionally in order to make amends."
I'm guessing that you are the former perhaps, but thought it was interesting and worthwhile perhaps if it was the latter. For me, this scapegoating stuff is another very difficult layer of entanglement as well as an obstacle to healing.