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For some reason, this one did not come through on my reply.

Boatsetsailrose it sounds like you have a lot on your plate.

For me, such stressful times seems to make it easier for my ICr to attack me.

It seems reasonable that your ICr is so active when you have so much going on. It is unfair too, eh? When we most need our energy to deal with basic life stuff, we often must instead spend so much of it on defending against the ICr.

If it helps, it sounds like what you are going through is 'normal', or as 'normal' as something like this problem could ever be. It also sounds like you truly are doing your best. It sounds too like your best is pretty amazingly good. Your ICr seems to be lying to you, though unfortunately that is what they do...

Sending positive energy thoughts

I have a deal with a friend. When one of us is going through a particularly rough patch, the other gently asks 'are you remembering to practise self care?' The idea is that 'when all else fails, practise self care'.

Because I am, unfortunately, going through a bit of a rough patch at the moment, I have been thinking about self care and how to practise it for me.

Unfortunately, I am finding that being in a rough patch often means difficulty in thinking up ideas for anything, including self care. I am hoping that people might be willing to list some ideas for self care that we all can refer to when going through a rough patch.

Three ideas that I had:

• Going outside for a walk

Preferably in a natural area (e.g. park) under trees, but rambling through my neighbourhood works too (especially when it means walking where I am vs. not walking somewhere that I need to travel to)

• Eating properly

This one for me counts double because I am not just eating properly but I also enjoy cooking healthy foods for myself (now if only I can find someone to do the shopping part of things).

• Doing an art-related activity

Sometimes this means colouring in a colouring book, sometimes creating my own painting, but for me art activities are soothing and enjoyable.

Wow! lots to mull over...

woodsgnome, you have words of wisdom. One of the things I am learning in therapy is to 'roll with the punches'. I am discovering how much energy I have been spending fighting the whole CPTSD impacts - fighting the emotions, fighting the EFs, fighting, the dissociation, fighting the 'shattering'. It has all spilled out into the rest of my life, leaving tired and cranky. I am learning there is something to be said for accepting/rolling with it. It still takes energy but it also releases a lot of the inner 'violence' (hostility? - I'm not quite sure of the right word). It has been helping to release a lot of the negativity that I have been carrying. In the process I have also been discovering much of it was never mine to begin with; it was beliefs, ideas, energy that was instilled in me by my abusers. Yes, definitely time to let that go and reclaim what is mine. Thank you woodsgnome for helping me to work through all of that - I still have some working through to do but feel like I am on the right path 

Your ideas of Self vs. self also make sense. I have been pondering this for the last few days. I think I might be in the process of unburying my Self from the 'yuck' that has been tossed on me. I think too, like many of us I have created selfs both for protection ('the good daughter', 'the quiet one', 'the smart one', 'the responsible one'....) as well as for social reasons (a different self goes to work than hiking with my friends). But ultimately the Self-Self is what matters. I am still learning who that is.

I enjoy this type of pondering, and am tempted to post a 'what is the Self'? thread. However, I am not sure if this type of 'for philosophical discussion' thread would be appropriate, nor, if so, where it would go.


Kizzie I think your image of a Ship's Captain might be right on. At first I resisted the idea that I had 'abandoned ship' - "no, I could never do that! I am the 'responsible one' the 'care giver', etc."* but in stepping back I realized that no, I think that the 'leaving ship' was what exactly I had done, and it is a good image to describe the 'shattering' that I seem to do. On further thought, I also realized that with an NM the abuse started pretty much since I was born, leaving me in a vulnerable position. One of the first (and only clear) memories I have of CSA, combined with external information, show that I was still a preschooler when it started. Given the circumstances, 'abandoning ship' seems like a reasonable thing for me to have done. Really, if there had been any option for me to fight or flee I would have done so. Shattering was the only option that seemed open to me, so I took it. Now, I am able to see that that was an entirely reasonable strategy for me to do.

Thank you Kizzie. You 'Ship's Captain' image has helped me to have clarity. By working it through, I have discovered that I have been carrying hostility toward my younger (preschooler) self for 'abandoning ship'. That of course, is patently unfair. She did the best she could in a horrific situation. Kizzie you have helped me reframe my response to my younger responses. You have helped me to forgive that part of myself, and in fact realize there was nothing to forgive as she had done nothing wrong.  . I need to do some more pondering but you have given me a good starting place. 



*Kizzie, I know that you were never implying cowardice or irresponsibility on my part - that is where my ICr went all on its own. The image and idea that you gave were actually very helpful to me 

Yes, sometimes going to bed is the only reasonable thing to do.

I worked yesterday (after working all week with overtime hours included). I got home, ate dinner, had a bubble bath and went to bed. It was about 6:30-7:00 pm, and it felt really good.

Boatsetsailrose, I had your posting in mind when I made that decision. Thank you. Going to bed early can be a wonderful thing. 

Thank you woodsgnome for the insightful articles. They have been helpful to me in processing a recent loss of friendship due to the former friend's spiritual bypassing.

I had started with a new T who practises a somatically-base form of therapy that is centred on feeling what is going on inside your body and your emotions. Through spiritual bypassing my friend, of course, was teaching herself to deny any form of 'bad' emotion, and, in her case, to get into moral relativism. I think my feeling my feelings and making progress with the new T was very threatening to my friend, and the state of denial she was in.

My friend began telling me that I was wrong to feel feelings such as anger, sadness, frustration, and fear (ones that I had been working diligently with my T to learn to feel), that I needed to become 'deeper' and 'transcend' such emotions. This person also tried to encourage me to stay in and in fact increase a 'relationship' with a casual acquaintance who is very abusive to people around her. Apparently the acquaintance is not abusive, I was only 'choosing' to feel angry and upset about the abuse that the acquaintance had thrown my way - we are all 'one with the universe' and cannot truly be harmful to one another (so says my friend). Apparently, it was also my 'spiritual duty' to 'vibrate' at a 'higher level in order to bring this abusive person up to a higher plain of reality so she could stop behaving in her abusive (but also somehow not abusive) ways'. 

My friend took exception to the fact that I disagreed with the idea that thinking happy thoughts about unicorns, rainbows, and lollipops would somehow cure my CPTSD (the friend knows about my CPTSD). My friend stopped speaking to me altogether when I told that if the path to 'spiritual enlightenment' truly was through denying my feelings (and so stopping my healing process and progress) and allowing other to abuse me, as she claimed, then I had no interest in being 'enlightened'. 

It saddens me to have lost a friend. This individual is not a bad person, just a wounded and scared person. But, when I had to (and have to) choose between my Self and a friendship, then my Self wins. I am proud to finally be at the stage of my healing.

Ironically, I do follow a spiritual path myself. I rejected the religion that I was born into (and which my parents used as an almost literal 'god given' weapon against me). So, I have done lots of reading in various spiritual and religious traditions. I have also sat down and really decided what my values and beliefs are a forged something for myself that works for me. But, rather than using spirituality as a bypass, I use mine as a source of strength and as a way of connecting with myself, the world, and with good people around me (e.g. rather than meditating to 'transcend' my feelings, I use my spirituality as a source of strength to help me feel and process my emotions). I also never try and push my beliefs onto anyone else.

I have generally stopped watching the news on TV because I find much of it triggering and much of it just plain upsetting.

I do, however browse the headlines on my local news webpages and read the articles that look important and/or possible for me to read that day. OK, I admit it, I also watch the 'fake news' programs and do follow-up on the stories the look important and doable for me that day.

Phoenix and Tired, Kizzie is correct. Many of us have been where you are.

Yes, sometimes it does feel hopeless. For me more so when I started than now but some days even now the 'hopeless monster' catches me. But I am getting better at beating him (in my case it is a 'him' but I imagine these monsters come in other genders ).

But, for me, with practice and patience, therapy and hard work, it often does also feel hopeful.

Many of us have started out hopeless and feeling it is not possible. We are now proof that there is hope and it is possible. Yes, somedays are difficult. Yes, somedays we slide into old patterns and maladaptive behaviours. But we are healing and moving forward. You have the same strength, the same skills, the same resilience that we have. With a little practice you will get there too. 

fairy slipper that is fantastic!  Congratulations!   

Thank you for sharing this empowering experience.

I am still working on fixing my touchpad so not able to copy for quoting...

DU, I think you have some idea of what I am talking about: the disintegrating, blowing up part is exactly what I experience  . I am still processing all of this, as I had never heard of it either.

My T mentioned that Traditional Chinese Medicine has an idea related to 'shattered chi'. So far, my googling has not helped me find it. If I get the courage, I might try asking the TCM school. I know that I can also ask my T at our next appointment.

I am still working it all through but for me, I think that when I am actually in a 'zone out' mode, I really am shattering into pieces. I can't explain it well. I have been hypothesizing that because I could not physically escape from the abuse I 'shattered' instead. It is a bit of 'my way' of 'running away and hiding'. My physical body was still there, but my Self broke into pieces and hid in the tiny safe spaces where 'They' (my abusers) could not get me (I am picturing mice running into little spaces in the forest when a cat comes by). Afterward, I seem to have pulled myself back together (mostly). I am not sure how I shatter nor how I manage to come back.

At this stage, I am discovering that in the aftermath of a 'big' EF, I am still feeling the 'pulled apartness'. I am starting to suspect it is a bit of an aftershock. The 'shattering' happens during the EF but rather than trusting my body/spirit/self to pull back together, I have been going into my head and 'holding on' (I think this is something I do now more as an adult who has learned to 'live in my head and use reason' than I did as a child who just followed my body's instincts). Knowing that it is my type of 'fight/flight/freeze' response has helped me to stop fighting against it and allow the process to happen. I do not have to defend myself against it because it seems to actually be my defence mechanism.

I completely understand the tightness that you described. I am also wondering how I never connected that with the muscle cramps that I so often get after EFs.    I get terrible cramps in my legs, arms, etc. (sometimes I think even my ears!) after 'big' EFs and dissociative episodes. I am starting to suspect that my efforts to 'hold together' have been tightening up all of my muscles physically too. Thank you for that insight. It is helping me to relax and, literally, let it go.

Of course, much of this is speculating as it really is new to me, and I am still working it all through. 

arpy1 - Please do NOT apologize for not having 'the answer'. I do not have one either. I also never thought that you were 'rambling'. In fact, your description too was so accurate that I got goosebumps. Wow! Someone gets it! I really appreciate knowing that someone gets it. 

I also appreciate your ideas about personhood (or lack thereof). I completely understand that feeling ('I like vanilla' comes from the idea that I had so little sense of my own 'self' that I could not choose between chocolate and vanilla).

I am starting to suspect that my lack of clear 'mind memories' might be related to this 'shattering' defence. I think at some level I (my Self) never 'really' experienced the abuse; my body did, but my Self was hiding in little pieces away from it. I am also starting to think that my 'loss' of personhood might also be related to this 'shattering' response. Thankfully, I am also finding that my 'self' was not really 'lost', it might just be 'scattered' around. Now, I have to (maybe 'get to') find the pieces and bring them back together. I have just started a poem on how I am like a sponge.

Again, much of this is speculation as it is a new idea for me and I am unable to find references for it.

Finally, I am beginning to think that there might be a great deal more to this 'freeze' response than we think (those with CPTSD and those who research it). Granted, the idea of 'freeze' is fairly new so it is understandable that it is not well-researched. But in reading the posts here I have seen references to 'where do you go when you go?' and 'collapse responses', etc. I am hypothesizing that there might be many ways of 'freezing' when we freeze. I think that forums like this one, will certainly help in the 'figuring out' process. For example, we are able to learn that the internal processes that we have might be different than what the literature currently offers. We can also learn where we overlap with other people's experiences and where we differ. I suspect that there will overlap and differences for all of us (we are all unique individuals who also all share CPTSD). There seems to be a growing body of literature in this area. Hopefully, the research will catch up to our experiences.

This is something that I am trying to figure out and am wondering if anyone might have experiences and/or references that might help...

Something I have noticed during and in the aftermath of very stressful/triggering times is that I feel like I am going to 'shatter into little pieces'. I then spend huge amounts of energy trying to hold myself together so that I don't 'go flying apart into little pieces'. I hope that makes sense; I have such difficulty describing it but it feels like my Self, my Being, is going to 'shatter' or 'break apart' in a type of 'exploding sense' unless I hold onto it tightly enough. It is a terrifying type of feeling.

In discussing this with my T, he wondered 'shattering' might be the mechanism that I use during trauma. Rather than flight/fright/freeze, I 'shatter' myself, strangely to protect myself. As a result, during triggering events I feel that 'shattering' sensation again. That idea actually made a great deal of sense to me and resonated strongly with me. Strangely, the realization that this might be my particular type of response to trauma was comforting and somewhat empowering. I am finding that it is easier to release that energy knowing that it is something that 'I do' rather than something that is 'happening to me' (again, I hope that makes sense).

My problem is, however, that I have never heard of this. Neither Google nor Scholar Google have offered any help. Searching for terms like 'shatter' and 'fly apart' with CPTSD bring many search results but none seem to have any application to what I mean.

Has anyone else heard of anything like this? Has anyone had any experiences like this? Are there any resources out there that address this? I would appreciate input and thoughts. Thank you!

Thank you, ILV 

I'm sorry you are having a similar experience, but your post made me feel much less alone and less freakish. I'm grateful for your support.

mourningdove, your post helped me to feel less alone and less freakish. I am grateful that you had the courage to post about these experiences 

Hi mourningdove,

I am sorry to hear that this is happening to you. I get the same type of experience (in a different kind of way). I sympathize and empathize. Unfortunately, I find the whole thing quite confusing too.

For me, I am starting to suspect that it is a body memory. I have only wisps of 'mind memories', where any exist at all. But, I am starting to believe that my body is holding on to things that happened - were done - to me. I do not know if this is so in your case (I am not even sure if it is so in my case). But I am working with a therapist who practises a somatic type of therapy, and the more I am learning to pay attention to and understand my body, the more I am realizing that my body seems to know a lot more than my mind about things that happened in my past. My therapist has not said one way or another; I say 'I am not sure if this is real (that it really happened) or something else (e.g. symbolic)'. I suspect he thinks it really happened but is allowing me to process it at my own pace' My T also says it is less important to know where it is 'real or something else' than it is to know that my body is holding onto this understanding of my experiences. Whether 'real', 'symbolic', or 'something else' the energy is there, and we can work on processing and releasing it. I hope that made sense(?). I am starting to suspect it is real but I think it is unlikely I will ever know (I am NC with anyone who it might have been and they would lie about it in any case).

So, you are not alone and you are certainly NOT crazy. I think whether it is a 'real' memory, 'symbolic', or 'something else' our bodies are giving us messages. Unfortunately, at least for me, it is in a language that I still do not yet speak. But the message is there, I am working on understanding it. It sounds like you are figuring out some good coping mechanisms.

Sending you healing thoughts

ILV

I am still working on figuring everything out, including EFs. But, I do tend to agree with the people who note that EFs are often trying to tell us something and it might serve us well to see them through.

That said, the EFs, at least for me, can come at the most inconvenient of times. In my case, I am, for example, wiser to try and block EFs while I am at work. Unfortunately, the 'corporate culture' at my work allows for behaviours that are often triggering for me (bullying from the top down  So, I do try and stop EFs while at work.

I am in the experimenting stage, but have found a few things that seem to work for me, with mixed results. Often, I find that strong flavours or smells can help me pull myself back to myself. In my case sucking on a strong mint often helps. Sometimes tactile stimuli also help, for example, rubbing my fingers on the rough fabric of a chair. Another tactic that I have been trying with some success is to tell myself a version of 'I am here', 'I'm safe here'., 'I can be here', etc. Often, it devolves into 'here, here, here, here'. That seems to help, but then I also have to be careful not to be saying it out loud or to mutter it to myself in a way that my coworkers can hear me. When I can, I also slip outside or into an out of the way washroom to breathe and repeat 'here, here...').

When I am at home or another safe place, on the other hand, I generally let the EF run its course, then practise some of my self-care 'after EF' activities to get resettled and recentred.

Today is World Rivers Day.

Started in 1980 by Mark Angelo in BC, Canada, World Rivers Day is now celebrated by millions of people all over the world. World Rivers Day was declared officially by the UN in 2005 and falls annually on the last Sunday of September. I am just realizing that that would make this year the 10th anniversary of World Rivers Day.

For me (for many of us in the environmental community) this day is not just about celebrating rivers and waterways (which it definitely is), it is also a day to celebrate the efforts of everyone who contributes to the health of our rivers and waterways.   

Yay! Happy Rivers Day! 

I hope all of you have a wonderful day, and maybe even a chance to visit a river near you.
(if you are more of a homebody then I wish that you are able to find pictures of beautiful rivers on the internet).

I need to sign off now. I am volunteering with my regular group at our local Rivers Day celebration.

Yay! Happy Rivers Day!