Messages

Woodsgnome, how utterly terrifying!  Seems as if the fear of this monster was at the time worse than the beating.

I hope you were able to sleep.  Maybe recognizing this demon will eventually help to place him in the past. 

Yes!  I don't have much of an "outer critic" in the sense Pete Walker discusses, but my inner critic is alive and well, sadly.  It's very good at maintaining silence with just about everyone in my life.  And sometimes I wish it had done better, because not everyone is as understanding or sympathetic as your roommate just was.  I've had people use against me, publicly, the information I shared. 

But when someone either gets it or even just listens and expresses concern or outrage, . . .  I am always greatly relieved.  A few understanding friends have populated the positive part of my life for a long time now.  And the  very few who met -- and witnessed -- my M's behavior have made an enormous difference.

I commend you for having the courage to tell your roommate.  With someone at close range, a different response would have been very hard to take.

But I don't know about rage (apart from my M's).  I think I should have more.

This thread has again made me think about defining -- and therefore validating -- emotional abuse.  Like Dutch Uncle, I have a mother (I see her as undiagnosed NPD) who appears concerned and generous.  She likes to give presents, or at least she likes to seem to give presents.  And she expresses constant worry.  I went no contact more than two decades ago (yes, really) and have had no regrets about maintaining the silence.  But I still get messages about her concern,  in writing or from the one family member I talk to, usually accompanied by offers of "help" to deal with my "problems" stemming from anger that I somehow don't feel and have never dared express.

So only recently have I recognized that the messages of concern are manipulative in  two ways.  One way is the implication that I'm not all right.  The other is that I'm responsible for her emotional state. 

On my good days (well, not that good if I'm hearing these messages), I think of this pushback as the last refuge of her losing battle to control me.  But then on other days, she starts winning the battle, usually triggering an EF.

I've been trying to get angry, read Walker's explanation of "angering," tried to do thought stopping.  But the messages still get through, triggering anxiety and more EF.

I'm amazed at how hard this process continues to be. 

I second Southbound's suggestion:  keep notes of every exchange, promise, or misunderstanding.  Attach dates to your notes.   Include who said what.  Sorry to sound directive, but I've done a little advocacy.

Ideally, you'll never have to refer to what you write, but if you keep track and (let's hope not), the return to work goes badly in some way, you'll have more options.

You had the strength, Woodsgnome, to welcome me to this forum, just two days ago.

I am grateful for that.

Triggerd2, I keep thinking about your dilemma, but I'm not sure have the ideas you've asked for.  Also, I don't know much about your situation, obviously, and I'm probably identifying my own history in your story.

But my first concern is safety.  Is a two-week stay safe?  Can you make it safer?  Is there anyone you might be on call for these weeks, so you can at least hear a sympathetic voice?  You have this forum, of course, if you can be online (safely, that is). 

Would keeping a journal of the experience help (shoulder surgery might make that hard)?  Sometimes, writing the story as it unfolds helps to put it in its place or at least keep it from seeming to spiral out of control.  Many years ago, before I went NC, I tried to spend a week with my narcissistic mother, I had a T who suggested this strategy.  But it requires enough privacy to be undetected, or at least lack of privacy meant it didn't work for me.

I wish you peace, as much and as soon as possible

Not necessarily -- that is, training doesn't depend on the DSM, which changes periodically anyway.  And some forms of therapy (EMDR, for example) are very new, developed since a great many Ts were in school.  Most (I hope) keep up with their field.  Surely, they expect it to change.

I note that my T responded to my bringing Walker's book to her by buying her own copy.  She seemed less than enthusiastic about the book but mostly has implied that it's not news to her. 

His website posting about finding a therapist is here:

http://www.pete-walker.com/findingATherapist.htm

Trace,

I think asking a prospective T about trauma or trauma-informed therapy would be helpful.  Yes, CPTSD is a controversial diagnosis, but the controversy continues because clinicians see it in their clients and recognize the limitations of PTSD as an all-encompassing diagnosis. 

Useful, too, would be telling a prospective T what you've learned and what you think you're dealing with.  The reaction you get may well tell you whether this person is willing to work with you as you see fit. 

For Ts who have to get insurance reimbursement, adherence to the DSM is required.  So officially, lots of people aren't diagnosed with CPTSD.  But that doesn't mean a prospective T won't acknowledge your concerns and work with you on them.  It just means the insurance company might have another code on file.  It might not be PTSD but something like generalized anxiety disorder.

If you haven't already, you might review Pete Walker's advice (it's on his website and in his book). 

If I'd come across this explanation before I found my current T, I might have proceeded differently.  I don't think trauma is her specialty.  On the other hand, she's been validating and helpful, so far.

Yes, expense is a major issue!  For anyone paying for therapy entirely out of pocket, it can easily be a deal breaker. 

These on-line sites offer something cheaper, close to the copay requirements for some people in the U. S. (those with insurance that covers therapy at all).  Of course, all therapy is expensive -- seems like an additional injustice to need it.

I wish you the best with this venture.

I will be interested to hear what you think about these programs.  They seem to be established programs, packages based on CBT.  I wonder how much they're individualized.  Then again, perhaps that's the wrong question, given that face-to-face therapy is often limited in similar ways.

I've heard that some therapists are offering on-line sessions, essentially taking on clients with email and video.  That possibility opens up options for some people.  If you're in a rural area, for example, you may have few choices, or you may be in a community where on-line sessions would provide greater privacy for the rest of your life.

I suppose the same questions/concerns apply to a comparison between a face-to-face therapy group and a forum like this one.

Reading posts here, I've been struck by the frustration and disillusionment with therapy.  So many people seem to have tried and tried and tried again, only to feel that their various Ts have been less than helpful/understanding/supportive/ethical . . . .

I can recognize that a therapy practice is just that -- practice.  For the T, the job requires constant assessment and in-the-moment judgment that can sometimes go awry.  I certainly take issue with the T I had in the late 1980s, but I think she didn't grasp the intractability of my FOO, perhaps because I wasn't ready to see it either.

All the same, I thought I was past much of what I've been re-experiencing.  Van der Kolk's work offers an explanation and, perhaps, a way forward with attention to body as well as mind.  I live in my head.   And my body was always a problem and an object of ridicule for my FOO.  Seems as if this realization could be significant.

I'd like to know about successful strategies for managing "client-led" talk therapy.  As you say, arpy1, it's a source of insecurity.

But have people found ways to make it work?  Or at least to make progress?

Self-direction in therapy is a kind of paradox.  It may make the difference between moving forward and spinning one's wheels, but the person in need is often at a point in life where self-direction is all but impossible.

I've turned to investigating a bit on my own, which is the way I found this site.  I also found Walker's book, which seemed to speak directly to my experience and explain why, after all these years, I seemed to be back where I was in the late 1980s.  Taking what I found to therapy has been a source of self-direction.  If I'm on the "right" track, it's probably saved many months of anguish. 

My T leaves me much room to direct sessions, and I'm lately unsure about what to do with it.  She asks questions about the distant and recent past, and I answer.  But I'm not convinced that talking through the past, over and over, is going to get me anywhere.

The contrast between your sister and the people you lived with for a while would certainly evoke sadness.   I don't know that firm criteria determine what qualifies as an EF (I think it's Pete Walker's concept and isn't broadly used otherwise).  But seeing at close range that life could be so different has, for me, been a source of sadness, off and on, for years.

Of course, sadness isn't the only response.  I'm also relieved and sometimes grateful to have good relationships, some with entire functional families.  But the sense of loss never goes away.

You might ask your therapist some direct questions about what you can expect, or you could get a sense of her thinking by asking her to respond to Walker's book (what she agrees with, whether she's had the same experience with clients, etc.). 

Yes, beginning a session by reading notes is bad form.  The idea is to have a committed 50 minutes.  I have learned that therapists disengage after that.  They have other clients, notes to write, lives of their own.  But they owe you that almost-hour.  The challenge for you is to participate in using it.

I know in the past, now long distant, I sometimes wandered through many sessions without much direction, but back then, I was minimizing my story.  This time, I'm trying to be more self-directive.  The problem is that people in therapy aren't in the best place to do that.

Facebook feels to me like a violation of privacy, especially because anything posted there remains on line, effectively owned by Facebook forever.

Before I registered here today, I carefully read instructions and thought about privacy.  I've been very impressed with what I've found (though it's hard not to be curious about who people are in "real" life).  All the same, the pseudonyms and option to avoid detailed profiles made me comfortable enough to join.