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I am very depressed.  I didn't sleep again last night.  When I asked my therapist whether she would rather see someone with full insurance she said yes.  So she already has given her answer.  She gives too much advice. Like what to put on my resume.  She talks to me too much about going back to the legal field. That should be my choice not her continued bringing it up.  I think she doesn't think medical coding is good enough.  She isn't giving me enough room to form my own opinions.  I think I have to terminate therapy and I am terrified

Radical,

I think you are right.  Truthfully, when I woke up this morning I didn't feel better.  I still think she would rather see someone who she gets paid more to see.  She said she likes treating me.  I know she enjoys it.  But she didn't make me feel better about  the vulnerability I feel.  She never did apologize for making me feel bad.  In fact at one point she said she thought we had already talked about it once.  It irritates me when she doesn't remember things and I have to repeat them.  I don't know what to do, bring it up again until she acknowledges just how painful a feeling it was (just like when my dad made me feel like crap about money.)   Is me bringing it up again just an indication of how much power over me she has and just reenforcing that? And making me feel even more vulnerable.  She is very money conscious.  She is very opinionated.  Sometimes she has no filter when those two things come together.  I don't know.  I am in a really bad mood ever since she told me I would probably have to doctor up my resume in getting a new job.  To know that I have to go on feeling like I do now, which is a stifling feeling of not wanting to talk about myself-its just very depressing.  Its not fair to have this CPSTD and go through all the pain of learning in therapy how to be vulnerable with people to get to know them and realize you can't even use the skills you are learning in therapy.  That just sucks.

I know you had a terrible experience with therapy.  I have been completely betrayed by a therapist before; sexually exploited; then lied to about the betrayal I felt; by telling me my pain was just part of the process of therapy; because he was scared he would get caught.  When I found a new pyschiatrist he was the kindest most fatherly man.  He went out of his way to make me feel safe and protected and cared for.  But we had problems too.  He was much much older and would forget things all the time.  Sometimes he even fell asleep in sessions.  I forgave him because he was so caring.  Maybe I should cut my therapist some slack on this one issue.  I am sure she will never bring it up again.

It makes me sad when people have been through so much pain and then get abused again by someone in the caring profession.  I can tell you that I have healed from it and rarely, rarely think about this therapist.  Are you going to pursue other therapy? Or take a break?

Radical,  I would love to hear more about your experience in having to step down, in terms of your vocation.  Also what do you mean by keeping an eye on the situation with my therapist?  The insurance situation or something else?

[I have to try and find a way to re frame this so that I can be kinder and gentler to myself.]

San,

So glad you are feeling relief.  You are an inspiration to me and love your making of your stone of valor.  That's the way to be self-nurturing.

I talked to my therapist today.  The reason I was so obsessed and perfectionistic with those two questions is the inner conflict I am wrestling with regarding going from being an attorney to a medical coder.  I am keeping my bar license active and we sometimes talk about me going back into law.  At 52 with no other specialty other than bankruptcy and not wanting to go back to bankruptcy I don't see how I am going back to law; but the hope is still there.  The medical coding is considered entry level.  My therapist also said she doesn't think I should put my law experience on my resume in going after a medical coding job because of how that would be perceived.  She thinks employers would toss my resume.  That means I essentially have to live a lie in any job I get.  How am I going to make friends with my coworkers when I can't tell the truth about my life.  That's what I am experiencing at my volunteer job at the hospital-no one knows I was an attorney and it has the affect of me not wanting to talk about myself.  This is all so complex.  I have to try and find a way to re frame this so that I can be kinder and gentler to myself.  I could look at it this way.  I retired from law and want to do something fun and easy for awhile.  I have to create a resume that will pass muster for an entry level job.  I can talk to people about work, pets, vacations, husbands etc.  I have to think positively. 

On the insurance issue.  She admitted she was wrong in telling me (evidently its a $25 reduction per hour of service, ($65 instead of $90).  She said she is so mad at insurance companies, Aetna, in particular for reducing fees.  She thinks its going to discourage psychotherapists from going into the work.  She feels the practice is being disrespected and that the new medical model of encouraging people to go to their psychiatrist for a 15 minute medication check instead of therapy is so wrong.  I told her about each instance she mentioned my "poor insurance."  She just kept saying she shouldn't have said it.  That she never meant it personally directed at me.  I said what if you just don't want to see me anymore because of the poor insurance.  She said she would never do that and that she has even continued seeing people who can no longer afford her services at all. She also said she feels we have a good relationship and we can handle this rift.  So in her actions she is quite generous, in her words she comes across as resentful.   I offered to make up the difference and she immediately said no, "unless you are rolling in the money and i know you are not".

She also said she is reading Pete Walkers book and that she thinks its fantastic.  She said it gave her ideas on helping other clients too.

Things that I am proud of.
(1)  I was failing 10th grade, had poor self-esteem, strained relationships with all of my family and I managed in two years to pull myself out of that black pit and get mostly A's and apply and get into a good college.
(2) I started out running around the block in 12th grade and ended up doing a full marathon at age 24 and another full marathon at age 40.
(3) I graduated in the top third of my law school class.
(4) I passed the bar on my first try.
(5) I am a good mom and my brilliant son is thriving and absolutely loves his life at Georgia Tech and has a ton of good friends-I've stopped the cycle of narcissism that has probably gone on for generations in both sides of my family
(6) I married a man the opposite of my father.  He is caring and empathetic and loves me unconditionally.
(7) Even though in my twenties I had a bad therapist who told me he had sexual fantasies about me and betrayed my trust I went on to find a psychiatrist who healed me from that wound and turned my life completely around so I could marry a good and caring man.
( I did extremely well in an oral argument I had to make my first year in law school; can't remember exactly but I think I was in the top ten.
(9) I had a reputation at my law firm as one of the best at dealing with clients; even those who were difficult.  Clients really liked me and would request me specifically if they ended up having to deal with another attorney
(10) I had the capacity to work very quickly and efficiently with clients without losing their trust or making them feel like I rushed through the process
(11) I am very creative and have made some very beautiful scrapbooks including one for my grandmother that everyone raved about.
(12) I am a good photographer
(13) I write very well; able to summarize things and come to conclusions without excess detail
(14) I am very good with animals and very bonded with my dog
(15) I did so well in my senior thesis class in college that after my presentation my professor said I would be a good candidate for the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University
(16) I have good taste in clothes and know how to dress to flatter my best features
(17) I am very empathetic and loyal and make a good friend
(18) My grandmother adored me, particularly when I was little and we shared a lot of positive traits like creativity, interest in politics and love of reading
(19) I have a nice home that is clutter free in a good neighborhood
(20) My husband has worked at the same job for 32 years and is very good at what he does
(21) I am a good wife; I have a strong and loving attitude toward my husband
(22) I was a good daughter to my father and a good sister and I realize that those relationships have to end because they are not reciprocated
(23) I have been very resilient in my life; succeeding despite a very traumatic childhood and adolescence.
(24) I have a deep appreciation for nature and feel quite spiritual when I am in a beautiful outdoor setting.
(25) I made partner at my law firm and was given a BMW as a reward
(26) I have the capacity to heal myself and an innate curiosity about the workings of my mind
(27) I have had success at turning my life around after setbacks
(28) I have a love and appreciation of 70's music
(29) I have deep empathy for people who are oppressed or otherwise disadvantaged in society and love hearing and reading about those who triumph despite adversity
(30) I am pretty
(31) I had an internship in Washington DC when I was in college and got to work at The National Womens Political Caucus and a Congressmans office

i'm curious - how have you dealt with this?  sudden breakthrough or a gradual awakening or what?

I think its been gradual, maybe in the last three months or so.  On a surface level I knew things.  I knew I was a  perfectionist, I just didn't know it was an attempt to hide from shame.  A therapist once told me my dad was a narcissist but I never knew what a narcissist does to people (like project self hatred onto you). I knew I had trouble with friendships but didn't know it was shame and fear of being vulnerable.  I knew I had a difficult upbringing but never knew I was very, very wounded from it.  I knew I was suffering from depression but didn't know I was turning rage against myself. 

So many little realizations about so many different things. 

I haven't put myself out nearly as much as you have, but I'm still um... pleased with the few things I've managed to do in my life, despite nary a word of encouragement from mother. Self-validation is the best kind; without it, no one else's approval is worth a cracker.

That's so great Candid.  I decided today that since I have been so focused on figuring out why I made all these negative choices in my life, I am going to write in my journal about all the things I have to be proud of. 

I am trying to get better, even if it means discussing the unspeakable things that happened to me.  The things I've tried to hide the most keep wanting to come out into the light of day.  I don't know why I can't just forget it all.

I know the feeling.  Why can't I just forget and get on with life.  Unfortunately, forgetting means repressing and stuffing emotions.  Then they start seeping out in ways that might not be helpful.  Discussing, analyzing, journaling, speaking are all ways we bring things into the light.  Its a painful process though.  If suppression of memories and denying feelings helped; we wouldn't all be here right now.

I also have only one person that knows what happened to me in my childhood.  Its my mom.  Although she didn't protect me from my fathers abuse - I have forgiven her.  She knows, her mental state at the time was poor and she didn't do enough.  She empathasizes with my pain.

When people show compassion I also feel like something bad is going to happen-I am going to get rejected etc.

This is tough stuff to go through.  I am so anxious about my therapy session tomorrow that I am up way too early with way too little sleep.

jdcooper, thank you for your response, do you mind if I ask what you are doing now? I am also a former law student.

My law license is still active.  I am studying medical coding.  I hope to be able to use my legal training with my medical coding/health information studies to begin a career helping doctors offices or hospitals wade through the wade of regulations and laws that govern getting reimbursed for their medical work.

[glad]

San-I too suffer from perfectionism.  Sounds like you decided very, very early, that if you were perfect you wouldn't be abandoned.

That inner critic was there all along even if you were able to ignore it for awhile. (My inner critic is most definitely male too)  Perfectionism is so exhausting, like you say.  For me it was driving me to do things like hike for hours until my body literally was breaking down and I had to go to the emergency room I was in so much pain.  When we ignored our inner critic by abusing substances or overworking or overpleasing other people we disconnected from our real selves. Operating on an unconscious level, going through life without using our full selves with access to our full emotions caused us to be abused.  Our drive to protect ourselves from pain just led to more pain. 

it was all about reaching that non-existent goal that my parents set for me, esp. my dad, of the unrealistic expectations he held out for me to constantly fail to reach.   i lost my humanness because of it, and i've been working hard to get it back now, because it has nearly destroyed my body by not being able to recognize those emotions that weren't allowed, so they got stuffed into my very cells.

I can so so relate to this.  I could have been President of the U.S. and won the Nobel Peace Prize and run a 3 hour marathon and my dad would never have blinked an eye.  Nothing I did was ever or will ever be good enough for him.  I too feel like my emotions have been "stuffed into my very cells."  And now they are seeping out everywhere and its ugly and messy.

I like what you said about being glad you are getting in touch with your humanness.  I think that's the key to this whole thing.  You are embracing this process.  So brave of you to do. 

that's where shame resides - in the darkest hiding places.  well, i just brought it into the light now, so it can wither and die.

That's what we need to do.  Though it is extremely hard.  It goes back to being human.  Embracing our humanness.

Don't know whats going on with me but I am not sleeping well at all.  Dreams all night long, I wake up and I am dreaming about all the stuff stirred up in therapy.  About all the awful realizations I am having that my father was truly a very cruel man to me as a child.  That I really did indeed suffer trauma.  That it was abuse.  I never ever saw myself as someone who suffered child abuse.  Yes I had a dysfunctional family; I knew that.  Most people had parents who were divorced.  O.k. so my mom suffered mental illness-but that really only started much later in life.   I thought my childhood was actually quite good-I knew from photos we went on lots of vacations and I spent summers with grandparents.  I knew my adolescence was painful but I thought at least I didn't suffer in childhood; how wrong I was.

I couldn't even tell my therapists in my twenties about my childhood because I didn't remember it.  So it never got processed and integrated.  The trauma of adolescence was so great that there was enough there to work on without delving into childhood. 

It was my research effort on Narcissistic Abuse and help from my therapist that led to me asking my mom at age 52 what happened to me when I was a child.  And she was so matter of fact about it.  Like it was some kind of known fact. Yeah your father picked on you specifically out of your sisters and would get furious with you about nonsense.   You would be playing with your pail and shovel and some sand would get in the bushes and he would yell at you.  When we went to a restaurant and he was taking our coats off he would take your coat off last. (imagine that scenario playing out for years in various forms-being picked last, being treated separate from; being treated as unworthy in comparison to my sisters etc. etc.  I think I repressed these memories on purpose because they were too damn painful.

So I had a hard exam yesterday and my instructor was concerned about two questions I got wrong, stating if only I had read the discussion forum I would have got them right.  My inner critic went into overdrive.  Even though her email really said something like "this is very good you only got four questions wrong, but two of these questions that you got wrong are concepts that are important and I am going to give you a chance to get it right so just do a, b and c and I'll regrade your exam."  She was being nice and I interpreted it as if I was slapped, kicked and punched in the face and told that I was a complete and utter failure at something that should be so easy for me.

So what did I do?  She told me I got four questions wrong .  She told me about two of the questions I got wrong; told me the concepts behind the questions and asked me to research them and write out my analysis.  I did that. I read the discussion forum and she mentions that a couple people recently got perfect scores.  And the whole punch in the gut thing happened again.  I have to get these questions all right too.  So I went searching for the other two questions I got wrong.  I obsessed all day and researched and googled and overanalyzed and tore my hair out searching for the two questions I got wrong on a 60 question test.  I found two I thought I got wrong and I changed my answers to those and resubmitted the exam.  I get her updated review of my exam.  She says good you corrected the ones I told you about.  But the two other ones were right to begin with and I made them wrong.  How is that for second guessing yourself?  I feel like I don't even trust myself right now.  My natural instinctual self that should recognize that obsessive-compulsive behavior is not going to help to find the correct answer on an exam isn't working.    My brain isn't even relaxed enough to process things when its in this state.  I know that.  I have been a very good natural student.  I know how to study.  How come I can't do that right now?

I am doing the same thing in therapy.  Obsessively-compulsively analyzing things; trying to understand things from all different angles.  This rift I have with my therapist about her telling me I have poor insurance.  I can't get it out of my head.  Does this mean she is a bad therapist?  Shouldn't she know better than to tell a client they have crappy insurance?  If she were a decent therapist wouldn't this be like a line you just don't cross- like the line that my wacky therapist in my twenties crossed telling me he had sexual fantasies about me and then telling me, when I was upset over it, that I had hit a breakthrough in my therapy. That was all cover his * kind of talking.  What a betrayal.  No wonder I am suspicious when I think a therapist has crossed what should be a clear line.

She has been so good so many times.  Calling me for a full free therapy session when I drank too much and couldn't drive to see her.  Texting me back when I am upset; immediately.  Telling me what a good job I am doing and how smart I am and how I am using my brain to help me recover.  Validating me for the first time in my life that my father is cruel and I have a right to be hurt and angry and upset and she wishes she could spit in his face.  Telling me that she is mad at him.  Taking me on a walk during therapy to help us bond.  Never being even two minutes late for a session.  Apologizing  if she is even one minute behind schedule.  Seeing me for an entire hour not just 45 - 50 minutes.  Telling me that I have to tell my inner child that it was not my fault.  Telling me that I have to create better memories for my inner child.  Soothing me when I had an intense grieving session the morning of therapy.  I told her that I just wanted my mom.  I was hurting and crying and distraught and I wanted my mom and she validated that for me.  I had needs as a child and I just wanted the protection of a loving and caring mother.  I left that session feeling so so validated.  In a way I don't think I have ever been seen or validated.  No one has ever seen my hurt little child like she has.  And I am scared, I feel so vulnerable.  I feel so exposed.  I feel afraid she is going to leave or reject me or hurt me in some way.  Vulnerability according to Brene Brown is supposed to be good.  Being vulnerable with someone is supposed to heal shame.  What I am doing is what I am supposed to be doing.  Its brave.  But just like I second guessed my answers to that test I am second guessing the work I am doing in therapy.

Radical

I am so so sorry you are going through this.  You are handling it so well.   

I keep thinking I am getting better and having some good days and then boom I hit something else and I am grieving and crying again.  Its like one step forward, two steps back.   It does feel like different pieces of the puzzle are coming together and a clearer picture of my life story is emerging.   I am realizing how very damaging my foo was to me and it hurts like crazy that I continued to allow it to happen for years. 

Lately I haven't been sleeping.  When I don't sleep my inner critic goes in over drive about trivial stuff.  I'm in school and my teacher criticized a couple answers on a test today, that she said I should not have missed, and said that, had I read the discussion board, I wouldn't have made those mistakes.  I saw her as berating me and just kept hearing in my mind what a complete failure I am.  I can't stand what this inner critic is doing to me. I never used to be this hard on myself.  Its like this looking inward phase is causing all the dysfunctional parts in me to surface in ways that are stronger than before. 

I was high functioning for a very long time, not realizing I was stuffing things and retraumatizing myself by being around my foo.  I hit a really stressful time in my life two years ago that has forced me to deal with it all.  I got very depressed and became very numb. Since starting therapy about 9 months ago,  I can't stop crying.  I do think its better to be able to cry and feel something than go back to being completely numb.  I just wish I knew how long this is all going to last.

Radical, what a painful way to end what is supposed to be a therapeutic relationship.  I am sorry that you didn't get the outcome you desired.  It does sound like you know you have to grieve it but you recognize your strength to be able to do that.  I don't know all the particulars of  your experience but it makes me realize that in getting into therapeutic relationships, we have to maintain our own boundaries.  These therapists are humans subject to imperfections and we can't see them as all knowing.  They are not the Wizard of Oz. Or insert here your deity of choice. Their  interpretations of us have to be taken as just one version of reality.  That's hard to do especially since a lot of us are longing for what we never got as children.  They become idealized in our minds. Finally, we figure someone is telling us the truth- we are loveable. And if they suddenly start telling us things that aren't accurate- well does that also mean when they told us we are loveable that's no longer true as well.  Its all so complex that I see why some people are terribly afraid or turned off by therapy.  In my 52 years I have had what I think has been extremely damaging therapy to what has been extremely  healing to now what I believe to be good enough therapy.  I truly believe it runs the gamut and just as every consumer needs to be aware when purchasing or obtaining services we need to be aware and cautious.  Also when things start going sidewise we have to know when and if we are better off leaving.  It sounds like you reached the right decision for your continued growth.

Well since it is bothering me and I already opened the door I think I should bring it up. My husband is absolutely clueless in issues relating to therapy and sometimes gives me terrible advice.  The fact alone that this post has gone on as long as it has tells me that this is a troublesome issue.  I have to confront my fears of offending her and accept the fact that she may not be able to reassure me in the way I need.

If she can't reassure me, then I have to consider paying her more to equalize the power imbalance that I feel. Thanks for your input Sanmagic, since you have that therapist background it helps me to see things from that angle.

[huge blind spot]

Radical, SanMagic, Yeah,

She definitely should not have brought up the insurance paying less ever. She agreed to take my insurance from day one (after all she is on THEIR PANEL) and never once mentioned it until much later when I was already an established patient.  It should be obvious to her that that would make me feel bad.  Maybe because I am an attorney and have made good money in the past; had my own practice like she does, she feels like I would understand all the ins and outs of insurance and how that world works and is just commiserating with me.  I have had clients who I charged less and then regretted it-maybe that why I feel so bad.  I feel like she is regretting taking me on as a client, but now has to live with it.  I also know she takes insurance from other people.

I mentioned once to her that my insurance would no longer cover an antidepressant I was taking and she took another opportunity to say "how bad" my insurance is.

She definitely has a huge blind spot around money issues.  I think she is very conscious of money in her own life-self made woman and all that- I am pretty sure she lives alone without a partner.  She also wants me to be more independent from my husband, and have my own job with my own savings (retirement). She once went on and on the extent of what was my own money in the marriage to the point of making me feel bad.  I did bring that up and she apologized and never brought it up again.   She is a feminist, not married, etc.  She has seen too many women dependent on a man and sees how that affects them.  I agree with this wholeheartedly, I was raised by my dependent mother, to "never depend on a man."  We are working very hard to get me back to working and being more independent.

In her text she said, "I invite you to ask me anything you want to and we can discuss my answer"  So she is opening the door to discussing it.

I could actually afford to pay her the difference between what other insurance company pays and what mine pays; I am not sure what her agreement with my insurance is, but I have felt like offering to at times, but she has always said she doesn't care about the money at this point in her life.  But then she contradicts that in her statements about my "poor insurance"  Also she seemed very pleased with the extra $180 she got recently.  That lifted my burden and bad feelings for awhile.

I disagree that I have poor insurance.  She is semi-retired with few patients.  She may not see the trends in insurance.  My insurance company pays for unlimited visits to a therapist weekly with no copay once deductible is met.  It also pays for very expensive treatment for my son who has ulcerative colitis, his drugs alone cost over $1000.00 a month.  My husbands back surgery and prostate surgery recently were extremely expensive-again with no copay.  None of our other doctors have complained about our insurance - I am sure they just accepted the negotiated rate that they have to accept from most insurance companies.

I know she hates insurance companies, hates the forms she has to fill out etc.  She is 73 and it is part of her practice that she hates and I am not sure why she doesn't just give that part of her practice up if she doesn't need the money.

My husband thinks I shouldn't bring it up again unless she does.  He thinks we gave her the extra $180, she is pleased and just leave it alone unless she brings it up again and then mention to her that she has brought that up before and why does she keep bringing that up.

Aside from all that "money stuff"  she is a very good therapist.  She is the very first therapist to discover that I have been abused as a child (I blocked it all out) and that was later confirmed by my mother).  I have had very warm and grateful and close feelings towards her that I know have been very helpful in recovery. We talk about politics in the context of Narcissists and we are completely compatible in this area and bond quite a bit over it.  I do think that If I brought up the insurance issue she would back down for good and never mention it again.

I guess that all therapists have their blind spots and part of the work of therapy is to work out these rifts in our relationship.  No therapist is perfect but believe me when I say I have had much much much worse.

In fact I had a therapist who I saw for a couple of years who ended up abusing me (in his counter transference he mentioned he had sexual fantasies about me) It was  a HUGE BETRAYAL.  As you can imagine then that every therapist who works with me has to over come trust issues with me.

If I didn't have trust issues I could probably see this is a kinder gentler way.  She is a very kind woman with a blind spot around a certain issue.  The fact that I am so distraught over this is my subconscious attempt to see things in black and white.  She is either a GOOD therapist or a BAD therapist. My husband pointed out that she is a good therapist and it is MY issue etc.

Thank you for listening and responding to what has been a difficult trying issue for me that I am attempting to understand.