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I read Mother Hunger quite a long time ago for the first time. I did tell my T but it was a couple of years ago. She had not read it then and has not read it now but has clients who have referred it back to her as being helpful, so she recommended it to me. We were specifically discussing how to mother oneself. I reminded her I had read it and remembered it as being helpful so I am re-reading.

I have not got very far yet, but I am finding that I do remember quite a bit. At the moment it is about attachment theory, though, and I have read other things about that since.

The AI summary seems fair. The author is good at pointing out the various bits of advice that have been given to new mothers over the years. When I was little there was quite a fashion for letting babies self-soothe and cry alone so I cannot blame my M for thinking this one up, though I think the approach appealed to her more than it might have done to others. The author is particular that her book is not about not laying blame on mothers because people can have Mother Hunger even with a mother who loved them and did her best. But she may have followed unhelpful advice, or fallen ill, or whatever. Any degree of blame a reader might want to lay on their mother is left entirely up to them.

I don't think I am finding it easier to read the second time around, but it is different. The first time the whole notion of having damaging mothering from infancy on was quite new, and I devoured the information about attachment theory and so on. I think I struggled more with the ideas on how to mother oneself because I have such a negative view of what a mother is that I have resistance to performing that role for myself. I am coming round to the possible need for it, and finding a way of doing it without relating it too closely to my own mother. I'll have to see how I feel about those bits when I get there. I am also much more alive to my body's signals now and notice resistance. Before I might just have thought I was tired or whatever without noticing that I was always tired when reading that particular book.

I actually listen to my Gabor Mate audiobooks to go to sleep, sometimes. They are narrated by his son who has a nice voice to listen to. I thought listening to a trauma book might give me bad dreams but that has not happened. I am not prone to them, though, so you might want to beware of doing that yourself. You can listen to clips of audiobooks before buying and it is worth doing that. It would be grim if I bought a book and the narrator sounded like my mother! 

Hugs right back to you. 

I am glad you have started PT and that you are getting stronger. A feeling of physical strength is amazing. I couldn't believe quite how much, when I finally discovered fitness in my 40s. I am sure you can learn to live as all of you and that you are already some way down that road. 

You know about art and what colours work. It seems to me there could be several ways to work with the clothing conundrum. Thinking about putting make up on is one aspect and of course there is nothing wrong with make up as such. But I can see why it holds such connotations for you. You have not asked for suggestions but I am going to throw some out here, because I can't resist it. Ignore the rest of this post if you'd rather not think about them, and if you would like me to remove them just say and I will gladly edit the post.

Options that occur to me:
Start by just putting a bit of make up on at home and then cleaning it off again if it feels too much.
Consider whether your hair colour/style is the best for you and consider making changes if it is contributing to the washing-out effect.
On the above two points there are now various sites where you can upload a photo and then virtually try on make up or hair styles. It might be worth playing with that a little, just to get used to what you might look like in a mirror if you start experimenting in real life.
Experiment with wearing different colours next to your face until you find the ones that don't wash you out. Then add colour contrast below, or with a scarf worn loose so the colour actually next to your face is enhancing you.
If your colours are fine with your complexion but your colour contrasts still feel like they are wearing you, maybe you just need a bit of extra balance up top via a hat or scarf in your hair.
Do you wear glasses? They can be a very useful way to add balance to the whole look. My mother used to make me wear glasses that looked as unobtrusive as possible, supposedly to "hide" the fact that I was wearing them. Like you can hide that!! And I was supposed to pack on make up to hide my various defects. As I have got older I have cut down make up. I also enjoy bright clothing but have found that my face can hold its own with simply the right glasses and a slick of lipstick that suits my complexion. 
If you have ever enjoyed acting see if there is an amateur dramatics group near you which might require you to paint your face for a theatrical purpose. That could be a fun way to break the back of the problem but it is very drastic!

I find it fascinating to see how and where journals flow.

I also find it fascinating just how much synchronicity there is. I am re-reading a book called "Mother Hunger" and the start deals very much with how infant brains develop.

Hope - I note you are having difficulty reading your new book for any length of time. I find that a lot, too. Even when I find the book really helpful, if it is to do with my psychological interests I often find myself actively trying to stop. My body just makes me get really tired and sleepy. It can be quite frustrating, especially when I know I am not actually tired or sleepy at all. If it is an audio book (I don't much like those but I have a few) I just zone out.

It is hard to understand, and I think it quite likely that everyone's experience of dissociation is quite different from everyone else's.

I do not dissociate in such an acute or noticeable way as you do so it took me a very long time even to realise I do it. My issues also are not DID but I have realised that I do nevertheless have at least one part that takes over completely from time to time. I only realised that because she started doing it once during a therapy session but hesitated because the therapist is a safe person, so I was able to notice the slight disconnect.

Most of the time I dissociate I am in a sort of semi-aware state where I can respond and superficially appear to be a fully functioning adult but I ignore as much of my physical and mental sensation as possible. It can be quite handy if I need to endure an unpleasant dental appointment!

I am glad you have therapy starting and that you have found a clinical psychologist. I'm really sorry you have had a bad therapy experience in the past. It seems to me that this sort of thing takes quite a long time to process and can sometimes feel worse before feeling better. Discovering the extent of my dissociation and other symptoms, which I had brushed under the carpet, has been pretty rough at times. I think it is wise to be careful about wondering whether or not therapy will "work". If you have a fixed idea of what being healed looks like, it could backfire. My own childhood experience was grim from the start, so I actually have no concept of what normal looks like. I have never experienced it. My approach is to look back over the period of therapy and judge whether things generally feel better. Which they do. My EFs are less overwhelming, mostly, and because I now know what they are I can use tools to help when I am in one. I can sometimes catch myself starting to dissociate and pull back from it. Objectively, if I looked at myself right now I might say that therapy has not "worked" because I still have so many challenges. Subjectively, though, I have to say that it is definitely working and has been very helpful. I am fortunate to be in a position to be able to continue with therapy as much as I feel I need it. I can also now contemplate a time when I will feel ready to reduce frequency and maybe even stop. That is massive progress.

Welcome to OOTS and I wish you well on your healing journey.

Well done for recognising what you needed and rescheduling the meeting with the housing agency.

As to the support group - I hope you are able to attend the three test meetings. Although you are likely correct in thinking that you are a good fit, to me it bodes well that they are being very careful about letting you in. They have an existing group to protect, after all, and it is also good that they are concerning themselves with what support system you might have, even though you are not part of the group yet. I have not been to an in person group but I have experience of an OOTS zoom group. It was very hard and scary for all of us when we started the group. That much is obvious, of course. But we had quite a big hurdle when a group member left and there was a space for one more. Because the existing group felt a lot of conflict. On the one hand we of course wanted to be able to help other members and let someone into the group. On the other hand there was a very real fear that the group dynamic would be heavily disrupted. I think we all felt it would be temporarily disrupted - how could it not? But the fear was that there would be a permanent shift and maybe existing members would not feel safe any more. We did not want any new member to feel they had inadvertently made someone feel unsafe. Lots to think about. I think because we gave it so much thought, and took our time about admitting a new member, it worked out as well as it possibly could have done. Because it was an OOTS group we had the benefit of seeing the post history of the person who wanted to join, which helped. I am sure you are fully aware of all these considerations on the other side of the fence. But I wanted to type them here just in case there is a small part of you feeling rejected because you felt an instant "yes" and they didn't.

 

That sounds lovely! I'm happy for you.

Welcome! Yep, it sure is nice to be around people who get it. I'm glad you found us. Also glad to read you have plenty of therapy under your belt and are a good way along the path of healing. That's great.

Thank you, everyone. Hope67 - nothing you wrote was over the top. It all felt spontaneously caring and empathic. It would for sure be nice if I could get hold of an anti-M spray!

 

I hope you're making good progress in finding a new T.

 

PC, I am so happy that you are now able to love yourself even when you are in a nasty EF. That's so important and worthwhile.

The discussion about whether the scapegoat is weak or strong is interesting. I'm not even sure if a FOO would view it in those terms, were they to analyse it. After all, most of the time it is in their interests for the scapegoat to continue to be the scapegoat. If they are too weak to take it they may break. The FOO might not care about losing the individual, as such, but it is a lot of work and hassle to revamp the dynamics if someone drops out. I think that is why we feel such resistance when we start healing and behave differently towards them. They DO NOT like it, and I think a big part of that is because they have to adjust themselves in response.

And (also sorry to barge in on your journal, PC) the word "good" has been cropping up here too. The word "good" is generally used as an insult in my FOO, when used to describe a person. I am frequently called "good" and although they pretend that it is not an insult when applied to me, I am pretty sure it is.

Well done SO. I hope you get your compost delivered.

The ice was solid, if it held him, it would hold me.

Sure. But would it hold the both of you? Your concerns were always valid.

I hear you about your kindly therapist. My husband is like this. He tries to make things better for me, making all manner of assumptions along the way. Quite reasonable assumptions that don't apply to me because - why? I am not a reasonable person? I don't know the answer, but I'd have said "yes" to the tea, too. I'd probably have cracked at juice, to be honest.

That Schore video was really interesting, Chart. And very relevant to my own circumstances, as far as I can tell.

The quote Dolly shared in her latest post feels very relevant, too. Roles in my family were somewhat fluid - the only certain thing was that whoever the scapegoat may have been at any given time, it was not my mother! When my parents married my mother was already very clear she wanted children. I am not sure about my father but I think he intellectually liked the idea of having a son and heir. Which he never got. However, my mother regularly expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage, but stayed in it for the sake of the children, she said. It was a heavy load.

Chart, I am sorry you were dealing with dysregulation yesterday. Well done for feeling your way through it and I hope things are more comfortable today.

 

Narcs. The gifts that just keep on giving. 

I've been doing well and I need to hold onto that because it is very easy to lose sight of my real progress when my FOO continue with their antics. I may do an entry in the private journal area with the specifics. Suffice to say here that my M continues with hoovering and discards such that I am not actually sure which is which! I know that sounds peculiar but some things feel like one and the other at the same time. I wrote about Schrödinger's jealousy elsewhere on the forum and right now it seems Schrödinger is taking over my life.

The latest is a holiday she is taking to a place that I like and never would have thought she would go. It was a reliable safe space and now it is not. She tried to get me to go with her because she knows I like it. Is that a hoover? Could be. Though she denied all knowledge that I am going there myself later this year so maybe it's a discard. She knows I am going there because my husband told her at Christmas. I tell her nothing if I can possibly help it and then try to keep it to after the event.

Really, what does it matter? Hoover or discard, it's all stuff I need to keep away from.

What does matter is that Little NK has taken it very badly. She thinks the place will be infected by M having been there months earlier. I found myself seriously thinking about the cleaning protocols. Like a little kid worrying about cooties. But she has also noted that M specifically chose a place she knows I like and then asked me to accompany. So maybe M wants me there. Adult NK knows perfectly well she wants me there to glorify her and carry her bags and keep the FOO show on the road. That the venue was chosen precisely because it is a place I like and therefore would be more tempting.

I got unexpectedly upset during the session with T. It seems there is some sort of yearning for a loving mother even though as far as I can tell every single part of me loathes and fears my actual mother and wants nothing to do with her.

I've been trying to work out when the different parts of me gave up on ever getting anything worthwhile from my M. I am pretty sure that whatever any of them wants, it is not her. And I wonder whether teenage NK could ever have held out hope for something from M when a younger part had already written her off. Do older parts evolve from younger ones? It's a mystery.

What was really noticeable was that I had a FOO visit yesterday, the day after my difficult session with T and the first time I would see M face to face to hear all about her holiday plans. The young parts were nowhere to be seen and the visit was actually quite pleasant. I felt that adult NK was totally in charge. I didn't feel the usual enormous rush of relief when I left and I didn't think I would need to decompress. And I didn't, in the usual way where I clearly understand I have to be mindful of my emotions. I just suddenly found myself feeling utterly exhausted, physically and mentally, half way through the evening. Clearly I did have some sort of need to decompress, and I was being careful, but the need manifested in a very different way yesterday. Today I have had various minor disruptions and irritations and they are taking a lot out of me, so the visit took its toll, just not in quite the usual way.

I find it amazing how she manages to infiltrate and spoil everything. She has done it for ever. Like a great mould fungus. Next thing I know she will be taking up a gym habit so I can't even be sure I would never find her in a gym. Sigh.

I think it is good to recognise how much grief there is. It's easy to overlook if one has not had a traditional bereavement to pin it on. I am realising right now that I have a lot of grief to process, too. I guess it goes with the territory.