Out of the Storm

I'm going to start a new journal now. I've fulfilled the purpose of the first one. I have recovered a lot of my childhood memories. There are still huge chunks, but I'm also almost 50, so that's to be expected somewhat. I feel more confident that I remember who I have been and who I am. I remember better now why some of that changed or got stuffed down.

Now, I'm going to attempt to weave all this together into the story of me. I will try to forgive the hurts, at least in my own heart. I will try to learn the lessons I can from what I went through, so the pain doesn't go on into the next generation. I will do the work to build into myself the assurance that I am not a victim but a survivor. And that at no time did I deserve these things that happened to me. I will build my faith in God as that is important to me.

Further, I will use this space to vent out the poisons of the abuse and the reinforcements that come my way at the hands of my FOO and the world at large. I will vent that poison so that it doesn't infect me further, or infect my FOC. There will likely be trigger warnings at the top of many of my posts here.

This website is saving my life and with it my marriage and the mental and emotional health of my son. There are no words to describe HOW powerful that help and this community have been and remain. Thank you to the dedicated staff and hard-working folks who make this website possible.

wow!  how very cool, wife2.  turning a corner of recovery is such a biggie.  i'm so happy for you. 

absolutely, spit out that poison.  you've been doing such great work and having wonderful results.  may it keep going in that direction for you.  with you all the way!

Don't need a trigger warning - I needed a *stupid* alarm this morning.

Being out on Friday meant that I had a TON of emails to sort through this morning. So, I was attacking them and found one from GC brother. Now, that is like completely unprecedented. So, I opened it.

It was from GC bro, speaking of his relief on some health news from Dad. I saw that it was part of a conversation, but nowhere in that conversation did I see that it had ever been sent to me except by GC bro. So, I expressed my relief to Dad and thanked GC bro for forwarding the email to me.

OOPS - I scanned down the emails after clicking send and found - the original letter from Dad, sent Friday. I didn't see any of it until today.

So, later, Dad sends a letter in all caps saying he could have sworn he sent that to me.

I fessed up and told him that he had, but that I hadn't seen it in the huge file of emails until after I sent my thanks to GC bro.

Open jaw, insert size 7's, close jaw.  And *. *. *. *. Because the entire family was copied on this whole thing.

So, looks like I'm suffering from thin skin about Dad forgetting me so much. And, apparently he's pretty thin skinned about me calling him on it. Maybe he did realize, after it took me so long to answer his other email, that maybe he HAD been forgetting me lately. There's nothing like realizing that you've made a habit of forgetting one of your children - except being called on it. Bad for the forgotten child to use the ONE time she's included to make the point.

So, I'm feeling pretty stupid. I also feel like the whole family has witnessed my rudeness - and it will all be ascribed to me since I 'started it' with thanking GC bro. They won't go back and see that I haven't been included in family emails for a while - like years. They won't go back and think about all the times the phone chain included everyone but me. They'll just see my irritation at Dad for excluding me - when he didn't. Psycho daughter once again.

CAN I PLEASE GET AN *ING BREAK HERE? PLEASE? I finally work up the courage to confront - which was mammoth in itself - and blow it for the whole family to see!

I'm sure the phones and emails have been buzzing since then. And, the joke of it was that I wasn't even rude, really.  I just thanked GC bro for forwarding the email to me and wished Dad well, glad for his good medical news.

*. Now what was that - I'm not the family *up? Trying to believe that, not convinced today.

Doesn't sound like you did anything wrong- thanking your brother does not = blasting your father for leaving you out of the loop. And you acknowledged missing your dad's email in the backup from Friday. You deserve forgiveness for this oversight. If they choose not to that is on them, not you- although it falls on your head.

I do the same thing in terms of guessing/knowing what others are thinking and doing. Sometimes I am correct and other times not so much. I'm trying not to be such a mind-reader these days.

I'm not going to tell you not to feel stupid because that would be to invalidate your feelings. But I will say I see what you did as an honest mistake, and I hope you forgive yourself even if they don't.

o wife2, i echo what beai said - i don't see you as stupid or rude.  from what you said, you maybe missed something, but that's just a mistake, isn't it?  don't we get to make mistakes w/o being thought of as stupid or rude?

yeah, i just wrote in my journal about being accepted even tho i'm not perfect.  well, i think that pertains to you as well.   and you said i was wonderful, even if flawed.  well, back atcha, sweetie.   i understand the sensitivity issue because it's family, that maybe you're more sensitive to your own mistakes when family is involved.  on the other hand, honesty is not a mistake, nor is truthfulness.  what is, is - no mistake about that. 

so, i hope you can be a bit kinder to yourself about this.  we're not going to be perfect at any of this, whether it's about family, relationships, parenting, whatever.   given that, i think it's important that we give ourselves a break when we mess up.  people are messy, and some of it is going to spill over.   what would you say to a friend who did this?  would you call her stupid?  i think one of the most difficult things i'm learning is to be a friend to myself first.  big hug to you, dear wife2.

Can anyone see that molehill? Or did I bury it nicely under all that mountain of my 'mind-reading' of family members?

WOW, you both are amazing, knowing exactly what to say, in all kindness, to help me put this back into perspective.

Thank you both so very, very much! I'm much calmer now. Whew. Breathing. And being much kinder to myself and my family (by not deciding how they feel without even talking to them).

glad you're calmer, wife2.  and pretty funny as well - you put a big smile on my face with your molehill comment!  thanks - i needed that today!  ever onward!

*** TRIGGER WARNING - sexual exploitation and rape  ***

I've been having to cut back on visits to this website - work is picking up and I still don't have enough privacy to feel comfortable visiting while at home.

Thank you to everyone who's been patient with me.

I've been trying to process a bunch of anger about all the realizations I've had in the past few months. I haven't been doing a very good job with it and I'm so stinking sick and tired of the ringing in my ears! I know it's not medical as far as blood pressure - recent visit to doc for unrelated 'regular' situation found BP to be just fine.

For some reason I've been feeling tons of anger, not at Dad or Mom or even GC brother. It's been at that boss from my last job who sexually harassed me for years. It went on for years because I let it. I landed in hospital with the depression related to consequences when I did finally end it.

I just thought of the reason it's on my mind so strongly. I read the post anyway, but it's the one about the vagina, as posted by Rosemarie. That violence to that one part of a woman's body has such overwhelming and long-lasting consequences for that woman. I do want to read the book she recommended, but as badly triggered as I am just from her post, I don't think I'm really ready. And, while I go through this, my husband may pay a consequence that he's not willing to understand.

Hubby knows about * boss. I was still working there when we met. I'd already ended the thing and had my stint at the hospital. I told hubby parts of it, but never the whole, entire story. I wasn't sure I could tell it without being confusing. And, he was so busy hating the * for my sake that I was honestly afraid he'd do violence to the * boss if he knew it all. Still, he did cuss the man more than once - which boss didn't understand but should have.

Ever since all that, hubby doesn't understand why memories can still get to me. He doesn't understand why one awkward comment from a boss now can send me reeling. He doesn't get why sometimes, when he's insistent about relations, I freak out and go cold and just can't even think about it for a while - sometimes days. He's a very practical - it happened, you survived, move on - kind of man. He's moved on from worse childhood stuff and just as much horror in his adult life as I've survived. I get that he doesn't want me to hurt anymore. But, telling me it's time to get over it just doesn't help the situation at all.

I try to talk to hubby, but unless it's about me being all better and him finally having the sex life he thinks he deserves, he really doesn't want to hear it.  And since the issue is how men in my life have used my freeze/fawn and people-pleaser nature to take advantage of me so many times and that sex is a HUGE part of how I was used - even when it was consensual.  Hubby and I were watching something and a commercial came on talking about sexual politics (it was the news and they were talking about super bowl commercials). How men and women aren't treated equal. The standard-issue-male-not-politically-correct comments came from hubby. I sat and listened and tried to not go off on him. He saw my expression and 'God, Wife2, you didn't think I was serious, did you?'

I want to talk more about this, but will have to come back later. Work calls....

sexual stuff is so pervasive - it's gotten out of hand, to my way of thinking.  i heard a comedian say that with porn being so very accessible now, due to the internet, that men are developing porn brains because of it.  they're believing that women are simply sexual objects, there's nothing more to do with them, and they want to have relationships like the ones they see on the screen.  it's sickening and disheartening and disgusting all at the same time.

i hate that you had to go through that experience, wife2.  it really sucks.  and the idea of 'it's in the past, why don't you just let it go/get over it?' burns my rubber.  sex is invasive for a woman, and men don't get that, at last not hetero men.  they won't ever get it unless they've been raped.  i really feel for you, my dear.  it's just so ugly, and the triggers are everywhere. 

i hope you can find some space and time to physically get that anger out, even if it's in pieces.  and, no problem if you can't visit here - your reasons are always valid, just as are your thoughts and feelings.   we'll be here when you can make it.  when you can't, we'll miss you, but we'll still be here for you when you return.  sending you energy and healing in this time of your struggles with this.  it's a gritch!

I have a lot to say on this, really I do. But, I'm at work and it's busy and people keep coming into my office.

*** Triggers about sexual relationship, marriage, etc. ***

My husband wanted to marry me because he decided that getting hard at our first meeting was a sign that he loved me. That 'leaking a little' when we first kissed meant we were meant to be together.

I didn't realize this until after we were married, but he based our entire relationship on the lust he felt. He didn't and couldn't know me well enough to love me. The best he could do was be attracted and be fond of me and love the idea of what our relationship could be - given his physical response.

I've had to compromise in ways I didn't think I would or could. He's made compromises as well. I think that overall, we have a good marriage. I think we're going to make it past these stumbles and fumbles. I do just wish he'd hear me when I speak about certain things, like his general attitude that women in power got there by sleeping with men. He'll either say something like, 'I see how SHE got HER power, and why someone would want sex with her' - not quite that blatant, but the gist is right. Or, he'll say, 'How did SHE ever get in THAT position? Who'd she sleep with?' Implying of course that women use their bodies to get what they want, and that's the only way they can.

In a way, I think I feed that delusion of his. Because, to have a stable home, a man to call husband and a father for my child, I do use my body. I give it to him even when he's been a total jerk towards me - so I can have these things. I give it to him as if it means nothing, really, to me. This is where I have my big dilemmas. Do I love him, really? Does he love me, really? Are we using each other? Him to have a steady partner for sex when he wants/needs it?

Then, there are the times when he is supportive and helpful and kind. Not affectionate, he will never be able to comfortably show me affection. But those other things feel a lot like love to me. And at those times, I give him my body more often. And he takes that gift for granted - expecting that it will always be offered at that frequency or more often and complaining when not.

And, just when I'm getting more relaxed and starting to open myself to the idea that we do love each other, he brings up porn or anal sex or something else I've said no to a thousand times - with solid reasons why my answer must remain NO. Or, he'll begin mocking the credentials of powerful or highly visible women. And I tighten up. And I freeze. I and want a divorce because this is never changing. And I realize that love doesn't mean the same thing to everyone. And I want to cry.

Right now, today, I'm in the place where I gave my gift, it was received but also expected. This after an evening of watching women wrestlers, making fun of them as women, making comments about a VERY suggestive commercial for a model in VERY SUGGESTIVE and submissive poses for her new calendar and making cracks about the dress the weather lady was wearing (Looks like SHE's headed to the club as soon as the news wraps! Which is tame, it used to be, looks like SHE wants some action tonight!).  I'm angry that my gift is taken for granted and that he still doesn't understand why his comments are so wrong.

Maybe he'd understand if his daughter was model thin or built or sexy. Actually, he wouldn't get it any more than the men who turn our daughter down for employment.

She's beautiful, don't get that wrong, but she's very overweight and dresses sloppy - very much like her mother. It's bad enough that she's being judged and not given jobs even with all the qualifications. But, hubby doesn't understand that it's the attitude of men like him that is putting pressure on his daughter to conform or be left out. She won't conform - she's happy with who she is. But those men who want women they would consider banging on their payroll who reject her. And they enforce and perpetuate the idea that women must use their bodies to get anywhere or do anything.  Her brother, who got the same college degree and has the same overweight, sloppy appearance, but is MALE, got a job less than a month after graduation. She is looking and it's been almost a year since graduation.

And I want to scream at my husband that it is men who think like he does (and like prez does) that keep this horrible reality going! And I get very angry when he expects my body in order to be motivated to provide security, companionship and support. Not desires, not encourages, but expects. He has even said it's his due. And that ANY man would expect sex on HIS schedule or would leave - or cheat on - his wife. Tell me that's not a threat. I finally figured out these things, but still can't determine if he's telling the truth - his view on relationships IS shared by too many men for me to find one who thinks differently.

I'm rambling and having to switch between work and this post. It's getting very incoherent. And, I'm getting angry again. This time at hubby. For the marriage of diminishing returns for me at least.

I'm so sorry Wife2. that is so hard. I completely understand how you feel and I think you're anger is valid. You deserve to be safe and to be kept safe, no matter what that means for you. I'm so sorry your husband doesn't understand that. It would make me mad too. It makes me mad that you have to go through that. I know first hand how pervasive sexual stuff is. Even thinking about guys using porn makes me sick. literally physically ill. (not that your husband is, i don't know and it isn't my place. I was just saying I understand that it's the widespread use of it that causes these attitudes--like you said, like prez)
sometimes I don't even want to get married at all... sigh
:hug: I know it doesn't really help much, but I care about you and want you to feel the safety that you deserve. I don't know what I'm saying here, but I'm sorry everything is so hard and i'm mentally sitting with you

Joyful, thank you for the friendship! That matters a lot to me.  :hug:

I had a whole post, but it was getting ranty and not very helpful or anything. So I deleted it. I'll come back when I can actually be constructive.

Thank you again. I'm so sorry that the post triggered you a little. I hope that doesn't last long.

I did a good thing today and it made me feel better about myself.

Remember, I'm triggered by unexpected, untoward comments from male bosses. They make me nervous  and I start feeling that I'll need to change employment once that bridge gets crossed. Even innocuous comments can trigger me. Well, that almost happened today.

So, I work in a large-ish office with lots of women and a few men. There is the 'bull-pen' with all women, another, smaller bull-pen with all women, then the old department I used to work in - one woman in that office, male boss next office. Then, there's my hall - three women and two men, all with our separate offices. We can hear each other, doors stay open and they're all pretty close together. On my side of the hall is IT Man, me and Big Boss (male). So, I'm already a big skittish. IT guy is a terrific fellow - keeping things funny but appropriate at ALL times. Big boss sometimes gaffs and puts his foot in his mouth, but doesn't mean harm. Still, it keeps me edgy.

Over time, I've asked permission to bring in certain personal things - a refrigerator, coffee pot, like that. I also am that weirdo who asks permission before printing color documents for personal use. I even offer to pay for the ink as that's only right. Because that is my reputation, I am seldom refused my requests. Others see this and want the same, but don't always know that I ask first. They also fail to notice that I ask HOW I may set up my personal items to best suit the business, not tell them how I want it to suit me.

The bosses reached their breaking point when bull-pen #1 workers started bringing all manner of electronic devices for personal use. The final straw was someone hooking up a toaster AT HER DESK, which is full of papers!! When there is a toaster available for all to use just up the hall by my office. I know they know it's there. I smell the toasted bagels and cinnamon toast nearly every day! But, when big boss saw the toaster and an electric carafe both plugged up ON DESKS pushed up against papers, he called it quits.

We're still not to the part I'm proud of.

The memo went out (from female HR director) - cease and desist ALL small electronics, giving a list which included coffee pots - effective IMMEDIATELY.

I read. I nodded. I emptied my coffee pot in the sink up the hall. I emptied the coffee grounds. I unplugged my coffee pot. THEN, I asked the sender of the email if refrigerators were also included, and if so, could I have an extra day to get ready to take mine home.

She came to me to make her answer. NO, keep the fridge. It wasn't even your coffee pot (or the fact that several from the other areas come buy coffee from me, because I CAN make a good pot of coffee). But, thanks for understanding and keep your fridge here.

We laughed. I thought nothing of it.

Big boss comes in HOURS later. Leans against desk confidentially. (I'm shrieking inside - UH OH, smile planted on face).

'Maybe I shouldn't say anything, but' (OH, crap, what have I done now - I don't associate this visit with the email).
'Go ahead, you're here now'
Laughs, 'Ok. You can set your coffee pot back up, unless we get blow-back'
(in my head I'm totally freaking out. I can already see that those ladies will go hen-pecking on my head if I do that)
'I really don't think that's a good idea, it would smack of favoritism.'
Shows he hadn't considered THAT possibility. 'Oh, well, we don't have a problem if you want to.'
'The ones who might complain have access to my office every day. It would be conspicuous. I think it's better if I don't.'
'Whatever you think is best, just know we didn't mean you when we sent out that email.'
'Thank you, but I think I'll leave it at home.'
Puts up his hand for a 'high-five'. 'Well done, and smart!'
I don't leave him hanging, but my discomfort shows on my face.

BUT, I don't actually freak out! I don't panic that I'm being set up for something! I don't 'leave him hanging' but don't worry that he'll read too much into it. For the first time in - I don't know how long - I just let the moment be what it was, refused the favoritism with tact and allowed the very minor, completely harmless physical contact of a high-five NOT destroy me the rest of the day. I haven't been sitting here ruminating TOO much and I haven't been obsessively looking for other work, sure that I'm about to be set up or fired or that he's about to be inappropriate forcing me to run.

Ugh in one respect, but YAY ME in another! I kept it in perspective and didn't freak back to * boss and assuming ALL men were like * boss. One good thing. I'll take it.  :cheer:

take it - you deserve it!  you dealt with that really well, i thought.  excellent job.  held your ground, but with consideration (i hear ya about the high five - a little 'pals-y' for my taste, unless this is someone you see socially).  all in all, well done.  a toaster on the desk?  wow!  that's really pushing the boundaries of professionalism, to my mind.  no no no!

back to your hub and his attitude.  i really am sorry that's going on between the two of you.  turning someone down once for a request should be enough.  then having to sit by and listen to those demeaning remarks - i can't even imagine how uncomfortable you must feel during those times.  sounds like sexism to me, and that never feels good. 

the whole idea about a husband's 'right' to have sex doesn't sit well with me, never has.  or that a man has 'needs'.  pooh, i say.  urges, yeah, we all get urges, but water and air and food are 'needs'.  we can survive just fine without sex.    i wish there was a way for your hub to understand this whole thing.

i belong to a feminist book club, and one of the topics was about cat-calling.  several women related their stories about how aggressive it could get, to the point where they were physically threatened.  the men in the group posted that they never really realized how frightening and/or demeaning it could really be.  it opened their eyes.

i wish something like that could happen for your husband so he could understand the negativity, the underlying threat, and the unsafe feeling that goes along with what he says and 'expects'.   it's such a completely different experience for women than it is for men.  we need to feel safe enough that we will willingly and with anticipation open the citadel gates so that we can enjoy what can be the very most pleasurable physical experience there is.  there's a world of difference between having sex and making love. 

i could ramble on about this forever, but i'll stop here.  needless to say, i feel for you in my heart, wife2.   it would be bad enough if this was a one-time thing, but to have it going on and on - no wonder you're confused about this stuff.  it sucks, plain and simple.  i have no advice to give you, just my support and well wishes and a great big hug!  it's too bad couples counseling with a decent male therapist isn't an option.  or a couples' getaway weekend that works with this stuff.  if he heard it from someone other than you, maybe he'd get it.  until then, small victories, like at work.  great job.    :bighug:

San, so could I - ramble on about that forever.

My stepson and I both call hubby out on his racist and sexist bull. He's always got some smart comeback (to our 'That was racist' he answers, 'Who said anything about Nascar?'. Like EVERY time). He does not see that his racist and sexist comments come from the same afraid place. It's one reason I've never understood female racists - don't they realize their male counterparts would just as soon throw THEM under the bus as any racial group they don't like? About hubby, it's very disheartening and triggering and devaluing. Because he genuinely does NOT see these comments as racist or sexist, even when called on them. And he genuinely doesn't understand why I would get upset when he's making fun of people on tv - not of me.

I've asked him to just stop saying these things out loud in front of his wife, daughter or granddaughter! After all, upon hearing such things, how are we SUPPOSED to feel? Valued? Worthy of love? Or denigrated along with the specific women he's making fun of? A dozen years of marriage, he still doesn't get it.

with all that you've done to call him on it, point it out to him, and confront him with it, i'm guessing he never will change (even tho miracles do happen).  so, it may be the time for you to make a change.  if, in the balance, the other parts of the marriage are positive, and they outweigh this crapola, then maybe you just accept you're married to a man who is both racist and sexist, and move on.  he's not going to change which means you have to or this will drive you up the wall for the rest of your married life.  certainly not a future to look forward to.

if this negativity outweighs the positive aspects of your marriage, well, what do you want to do?  again, he won't change, won't seek an outside opinion, is steadfast in believing he's not doing anything wrong.   either way, it looks to me like the ball's in your court, wife2.  nothing about this is easy, either.  it's your marriage, for heaven's sake!  i can only assure you of my support no matter what you decide.  and, maybe you have a third option, or maybe you just want to continue to be aggravated by what he says and does (not necessarily 'want to' but will allow yourself to). 

i understand about hanging on under 'not the best' circumstances.   i'm still doing it, altho there have been changes made.  still, some of the old stuff continues to rear its ugly head, and we go around about it all over again.   it sure can be difficult at times, and i've thought about going our separate ways at times.  it comes and goes.  i don't know.  so far, i've continued to stay because the neg. has gotten much smaller than what it used to be.   i hope that can be the case for you as well, my dear.  big hug!

 :yeahthat:  :bighug:

For me lately, that's one of the reasons I have a vent blog on my computer (at work, password locked). I vent there to get this crapola out of my system. This time, I just spilled out on my journal because it just needed to be typed, I think.

The reality over the long haul of our marriage is that it is better than it was. A LOT better than it was. If I feel he's getting out of hand again, I remind him that I do take offense to such language and I definitely don't want my son learning it from him. That usually makes a two-to-three week adjustment.

If he gets angry about hearing either son speak to me disrespectfully, I remind him they learned that somewhere. He accepts the correction and again, I get two-to-three weeks, sometimes longer, with a concerted effort to correct his language and to show me respect in other ways.

The other day was the end of a month-long respectful period. Within the day that he started again, DS started speaking disrespectfully (in tone only, content was acceptable) and hubby got mad at him. I just looked at hubby. Since then, we're back on a good spell. So, though I know the behavior will never disappear, it's getting easier to get back on the right track.

I just sometimes do get fed up and have to vent it out. So far, the good outweighs the bad - by a comfortable margin.

My skill I'm working on lately is boundaries (and enforcing them) and consistency. And, if I'm triggered by something outside the home, NOT dumping on them.

Next is speaking up BEFORE I'm angry - nipping in the bud any bad habits that pop up. In me as well as in them.  With that one will be not taking anger or disappointment in myself out on them.

you go, girl!

Saw a news story yesterday that kind if hit me in the ego.

It's official, scientifically proven, that oldest children score higher on IQ tests than youngest children. Yippee freekin' skippy. Now, it's proven.

I guess in this superficial world, people will start asking for birth order on dating sites! LOL 'First children only, please'. OMG.

Of course, they backed up the scientific data with facts that do make sense. First children don't have to compete for Mom and Dad's attention (a blessing AND a curse, I've heard). Mom and Dad are still inspired parents, trying new things and encouraging children in what the children want and like (perfect world, perfect world, reality for many of us - even first kids didn't get that).

Anyway, the story made me laugh. So, if I wanted to keep being the 'victim' I could claim - birth order made me stupid! Please know, folks, I'm in a very sarcastic mood today. I neither believe myself a victim or stupid. I'm a pretty darn smart survivor. I figured out how to get to adulthood when all the adults around me forgot they were still responsible for me! Not. Too. Shabby. My hubby - another youngest - laughed as well. Same story for him. Biggest exception was that he had a sibling actively trying to injure him - and yet, he survived.

I have to keep the post short - work is picking up and I need to keep earning a paycheck to keep this size 18 figure going on! Peace to all of you! Hug from me and hug yourself - you deserve one. So do I - but I already gave myself one today LOL. OK. Really. Back to work.....

i'm the oldest, i probably have a higher i.q. than my sibs, but i'm not sure.  however, i've had a lot lower emotional quotient than either of them!  that alexithymia thing was wrought by my dad upon me, and not on my sibs.  so, i walked around in an emotionally devoid bubble most of my life.  maybe i had an advantage over them in book learning, but as far as social interactions, i was completely in the dark.

i can't even imagine what my life might have been like had i had emotions like my sibs did.  out of my comprehension zone.  so, while those surveys or whatever they are may tell a piece of the story, i don't believe for a moment they can consider the whole of a human.  i'm just glad you and your hubby can laugh about it.  that's about what it's worth, to my mind.   you've got so much going for you!  pooh! (i can't do your raspberry, but that was great!).

Thank you, San - and so do you!!!!

See, the thing that I wish I understood better is how you are such a loving, kind, supportive and beautiful person but you don't get to feel those in your heart and soul when we return them to you! That is the cruelest injury of all. The denial of your human RIGHT to feel what you feel when you feel it. To know that's what you're feeling and to welcome it all. The joy AND the pain. The silly AND the profound. The love AND the hate.

My prayer for you, my good friend, is that you will be allowed to take that emotional car OUT of neutral and shift into OVERDRIVE - ok, that might be too big a change to handle all at once, but at least get past reverse and into 1st gear! The primals - joy, warmth, love (yes, it's a primal emotion). To really know that you are feeling them. To embrace them as they come up. To even be overwhelmed a little - emotions when strong enough WILL do that!

You're grown. Your siblings are grown. Your children are grown. You don't have to be the rock of Gibraltar anymore! Let the spent emotions of decades wash away that rock. The gem inside will be worth it, because that gem is your genuine YOU, with all her emotions intact - in all their beautiful, fearful, immense reality.

wife2, you blew me away.  i didn't expect that.  you touched my heart, and i felt that for a moment - it was warm and caring and felt very good.

the thing about this is that the parts in my brain that are involved in emotions weren't allowed to develop properly.  i'm working on re-wiring them, and, as was the case when i read your post, i could feel the love you were sending my way.  i believe it's because it was heartfelt and it made a connection with my heart.

my hub says 'i love you' to me at least once a day, but to me they're just words.  i hear them, i understand what they mean, but i can't really feel them.  it's odd.  one time, however, when i was very sick, he was sitting near me, looked me in the eye and nearly whispered 'i love you so much'.  that one i felt.  i know it wasn't just the correct words to say but came from his heart.

i can't explain this too well.  i remember feeling joy once, when daughter #1 took her first step.  it filled my heart nearly to overflowing!  what a wonderful feeling, like warm chocolate flowing through and around my heart.  i didn't cry when i felt it, just felt what it was.  haven't felt it since or before that. 

i've had one experience where i was loved and i never questioned it, always felt it, and, even tho we couldn't be together because of circumstances, it never wavered and sustained me through all the years of the madness.  it continues to this day.  i can't explain it, but i know it's real and i know he feels it, too.  there have been signs through the years that it's still there.  how or why this is different, why i can feel it and know it is a mystery to me.  he came to me in a dream a few weeks ago, and i laid a hand on his shoulder, and it was completely comforting and soothing, and i'd asked him to wait and he said he would.  the feeling of being comforted and soothed was real, i can feel it now if i think about it.

so, while this is baffling, and i wish i could feel more of this, it is what it is.  i'll keep working on it as i'm able.  i still consider myself one of the lucky ones that i have had this in my life for more than 40 yrs., and it brings a smile to my heart just thinking about it.  that may be the key for me, this heart connection.  too many times the sadness overrides it (i'm working on that as well) and i become so overwhelmed that i'm sobbing before i know it. 

your words didn't make me cry, but i could feel them.  thank you so much.  it's more than what i've had from most of the real people in my life.  i think this is progress.  i wish it were as easy as throwing out the other stuff - just like i wish it were as easy as throwing out our c-ptsd symptoms.  it's just not the way it works.  love and hugs to you, wife2, my sweet friend.

San, my friend, I know you are gone on your trip with your daughter this week. I sincerely hope that you are able to smile in the sunshine (or laugh at the clouds if it's still raining). Turn your face to any sunlight you can find. That warmth on your face is what hope and peace feel like. They're soft and gentle and lay across your soul like a warm blanket on a cold day.

I love your description of joy. That is so accurate! And I felt it a few times when my son was young. I've felt it a few times in my marriage, which is why I fight for it so, even when he ticks me off so badly.

The rewiring will happen. You have enough time. It's worth the work you're putting into this, because YOU are worth the effort.  :: HUGS ::

**** And now for something completely different ****

I find it interesting that my brother and my 2nd oldest sister - who have both been visiting Mom here in town but not telling me of their plans until last minute if at all - both have come to town recently and included me in the plans. Brother ASKED Mom to call me and my daughter so we could both come. Sister asked Mom to give me the heads up, then called me herself to finalize the plans, also including my daughter and granddaughter.  That these events happened one weekend after the other (and both were really good visits), and both followed on the heels of that email where I thanked bro for 'forwarding' a Dad-email to me feels most revealing.

Maybe I did have a right to be upset. Maybe Dad had good reason to feel shamed and defensive (he actually HAD sent THAT email to me, I didn't realize until later). Maybe my siblings saw in that little email (my thanking my brother for forwarding the email to me) that I had a reason to sound upset and frustrated. Maybe they did finally see that I am the forgotten one. Dad talks about me with them, tells me he worries about me, tells them he worries about me, has them find out how I'm doing for him - instead of picking up a phone himself.

It just occurred to me why I do my chipper calls with him. Because if I do that, he'll stay on the phone and ask to speak to my hubby and sons. But, if I have any hard or bad news, he's suddenly on his way out the door and has to get off the line. The same man who worries about me. He can't even stay on the phone and hear less than wonderful news. BUT, then he blasts me for not being real with him when he calls. That's a no-win, no matter how anyone tries to slice it.

For years, I preferred to talk to my stepmother, which I now believe is a mistake. I believe she was twisting my news into what SHE thought it meant before passing it on to Dad. And it was likely translated through her filter regarding me. I used to believe I could be closer to her than my own Dad, but now, I really wonder. I wonder if she hasn't been putting wedges between me and Dad their whole marriage. Now, it's just such a habit, she can't even help herself. But, back then, it was to get Dad to vest in HER youngest child, a daughter, like the child's own father hadn't.

I wasn't even jealous of my stepsister until Dad began refusing to let me get away from my mother and live with him. I was 13 and they were newly married when I began my campaign to leave Mom and join them. I know this sounds petty as it was over 30 years ago, but I feel the need to lay out my reasons for allowing it here:
1) Mom is crazy and lazy.
2) Your school system is better. Your whole STATE is better.
3) There are peeping-toms down here. And drunks who try to enter the home. And thieves.
4) I'm willing to work via babysitting or a more classic job, even in high school, to help with bills. I already have great babysitting references.
5) You have the space - it's a 4-bedroom house!
6) The job market up there is better.
7) YOU are sane (at least I thought).
8) You can save on child support - maybe start a college fund for me? For my step-sibs with what you save?
9) I'll still visit Mom on major holidays and in the summer, if you grownups can work it out.
10) I'm your daughter, your youngest child, and you're leaving me with my mother, a woman you had good reason to divorce! HELP ME.

His reasons for NOT allowing this:
1) I don't want to hurt your mother that way, taking everything from her. (Why, because bro stayed with you one year?)
2) I don't think a blended family will work out (from a man who had an uncle always and a whole other family for two years live with him, his sibs, parents, grandmother in grandmother's home until he left for college).
3) I just don't think it's a good idea. You're fine where you are. (obviously not or I wouldn't be begging you!)
4) NO. Final answer. You're just going to have to work things out with your mother (like you did?).

Dad is so full of *, and his wife is right there, feeding poison into his ear regarding those of us she decided against. That included my heart-mother and my heart-father siblings and me. Profoundly autistic couldn't talk back (older sibs both called her on * and the relationships never recovered). Oldest sisters and GC bro were accepted by her.

And I think her heart hardened against me for that one day when she and Dad left me in charge of her two kids at her house. So, they could go on a date. Fine. I already had been babysitting for over a year, but usually much younger children. Who listened to me. This were my Dad's girlfriend's kids, one and two years younger - they weren't going to listen to me! And, this was before cell phones, so calls during a date had BETTER be an emergency!

Stepbro was riding his bike down his driveway at the back wall of the carport. Playing, how close to turn the handlebars before I hit the wall. He was bored. I heard him thump the wall from inside a couple of times, investigated and he said something along the lines of, 'I do this all the time. What do YOU know. Just leave me alone.' So, I did! He came in holding his arm. He swore it was broken, but I didn't know. I was, what, 12? What did *I* know? So, we put ice on it until he said that hurt. We wrapped it in an ace bandage and he went back outside for a while. He came back in saying it really hurt. I repeated what was said in MY house a lot - It's fine, stop whining.

When the parents returned, I told them about it, stepbro came out of his room and showed it to them, which had swollen in the two hours that had passed. Dad stayed at the house with stepdaughter and me while then GF took her son to the doc. Yup, it was a green-stick fracture, cast required and all.

I think in her mind, I had failed at watching her children and thus couldn't be trusted with their safety. That was before they got married. I think ever since that day, she has never trusted me and always believed that I would bring her family harm if allowed. *** I WAS FREAKING 12! COME ON! *** But, that's what the behavior has told me, since the words have always been loving, kind, thoughtful - yeah, right. I don't think she hates me, that would be too obvious. BUT, she has NO problem blocking me from visits, blocking Dad from visiting me (except when it would be too obvious - his visit to meet my son was only delayed three weeks). She has no problem setting priorities in the family that include her children and the older of his children, but which somehow forget to be mentioned to me.

The day Dad and she came to visit me after I got married (two months later - because I eloped - how rude!), my husband had had to work ALL night, getting only 1 hour rest before meeting them. They hadn't bothered to come meet him while we were dating - they never expected me and hubby to GET married, ever! So, I, hubby and my two new stepchildren meet them at a restaurant. Where Dad shows he's disappointed, but she lays into me like a vulture with a fresh kill - picking me apart and telling me what a disappointment I am to my father and how I've hurt him so deeply by depriving him of the opportunity to have a church wedding (wasn't going to happen) where he could walk me down the isle (not likely, but nice thought) and they were going to pay for it (not likely - I was already 37 and I'd been told or shown my entire adult life to NEVER count on anything from Dad).

I still think Dad realized that she was just throwing words at me to hurt me, because after THAT gem, he asked her to stop. I just sat there and took all the verbal abuse. Hubby and even stepkids stood up against them more than I did. I just hung my head and cried. Stepmother had won. She had proven that she could verbally bash me into submission, or at least emotional destruction. Dad would let her until she went too far in HIS opinion. BUT, when stepmother bashed my ability to be a good stepmother myself, my stepkids had had enough. Hubby had had enough. They all verbally stood up to her. Hubby shut the breakfast down and scooped me and the kids up and we left.

Later, when we all met at our house, they were nicer and stepmom kept her mouth shut. Just her eyes doing the judging because it was a mobile home and not some wonderful home like my Dad had given her. Or like the brick house I still owned (and we eventually moved into). It was a mobile home and she put her nose up even further!

If they'd been serious about paying for a wedding, why was NOT ONE CENT shown to me and my new husband as we set up this home together? Because it was a LIE by my stepmother to make me feel horrible. IT was a LIE she dreamed up to hurt me. The ONE TIME Dad was going to help me financially and *I blew it* because I eloped. Because I never, ever heard of that before or since.

And that she would lie to me just to hurt me tells me who she really is. Has always been. Why I'm not included, forgotten as often as possible.

That week that my son and I went up to visit is really different if I look at it with this realization. She didn't want me there! She barely wanted DS there! And her son stayed away even on his birthday rather than see me in that house. Despite the fact that, as kids, he and I had become pretty friendly - in a way my own bro and I hadn't. Just pals, and that was wonderful! It wasn't until I began making the point that Dad isn't perfect and that stepmom isn't either that stepbro turned on me. I think he's made them choose between inviting me or him and that he will NOT show (just like he missed Dad's birthday AND Christmas the year I was up there for those). Even for his love of them, he will not tolerate my existence - and I've never said anything against him!

The closest I came was to say that they shouldn't hold it against ME and disallow ME moving in temporarily because they just threw HIM OUT for doing drugs. That had nothing to do with me! That's the harshest thing I've ever said against him. In 40 years. Yet, I'm a pariah, not to be tolerated. What has she said to him? What does he believe? That I look down on him? Because he had a tough time for a couple of years keeping work? So did I! Because he had a failed relationship with a woman he really loved? So did I, and the man I loved just moved away. Because I married a man with children? Really? Whatever.

I really don't get it. I really don't. The 'yankee' crowd have decided that I don't belong in the family and they get their feelings hurt when I call them out on it. When I call them out on words OR behavior, they all go into defensive mode and throw it back on me.

Wow - Dad sure found a good woman! All he had to do to have a happy family in the second half of his life was to sacrifice his youngest daughter. Apparently the sacrifice was acceptable.

My head hurts and I have work to do. Ramble complete. Lots to consider.

But, at least I have two of my siblings back! At least they're trying again! For that, it was worth the social blunder of the email.

PS - Dad still hasn't responded or called or anything. I guess he's still feeling hurt-butt that I would recognize that he DOES ignore and forget me tons.

 :hug:

Dear wife, I just read your post with awe. You are reframing past events and boy that must be tough to do. All those years, the family dynamic was as you describe and that's a very tough web to untangle. I may be wrong but I felt in what you wrote some triumphant feeling, a feeling of eureka, of now understanding the real situation and not just what others wanted you to believe about yourself or others.

:hug:

I just hope I'm really purging this to get it out of me. I hate this being a poison inside me.

And, yet... this morning in the shower I remembered something else that happened around the time Dad and Stepmom were beginning dating. More 'proof' of what a horrible child I was.

When I was somewhere between 12 and 13, contacts had just started being 'affordable' for more people. I put that in quotes, because they were still mighty expensive. I had been wearing glasses since I was 6 years old. I tried not to be vain about them, but I was awkward enough. Adding glasses just added to the social stigma. So, Dad, actually trying to be loving and respectful of my feelings, got me into a program to try contacts. The program was experimental because my eyes were too astigmatic to use regular contacts, like my GC brother could.

Back then, only one company made contacts for astigmatism. They were new and nobody knew what long-term use would be like. Because of that, I got a new pair of glasses along with the contacts. So, I tried. I went to the doctor. Learned how to put contacts in, without damaging my eyes or the semi-soft lenses. I learned proper care of my eyes and of the lenses. I put them in faithfully every day in the morning. By lunchtime, my eyes were red and puffy, I could barely see and I'd have to take them out and put back on the glasses. In the afternoon, I'd try again, but the longest I could go with continuous wearing was 4 hours. After that, my eyes would physically ache, get puffy and my vision got bad.

I'd power through the pain some days, to make my Dad happy, but I couldn't even put them in the next day when I did that. My eyes would hurt so bad! Dad would fuss about the cost and trouble he went through for that. I would apologize and keep trying.

Two years after that struggle with Dad and the contacts, we found out that the company had pulled those lenses off the market - they weren't allowing enough air to the eyes and some people had gone blind. I made sure my Dad found out about that recall. He felt bad about pushing me so hard, but I think the seed was still planted (and perhaps tended and nurtured by stepmother?) that I was ungrateful and would waste his money.

I found out about the recall because my mother had decided to 'one-up' Dad and let me try contacts again. At the optometrists' office, I found out about the recall AND about the fact that my particular form of astigmatism meant that I'd never be able to wear standard contacts. Mom was willing to try, but I told her I didn't think it would work for me. She was determined to prove her love for me with those * things.

I tried, and I was able to wear the new fully hard lenses for about 6 hours. Not quite long enough to get through a school day. So, I still had to bring my glasses and wear them at some point. Because of all this taking contacts out and putting them back in and such, I stopped even thinking about wearing makeup. It would just make matters worse! Half the time, I had to take the contacts out because my eyes would just start watering and - there went any makeup if I had tried to wear any!

Finally, at 15, I told both parents that I was just destined to wear glasses. It's ok. I was fine with it. We'd all given a good try and it was time to stop.

Every so often, once I was an adult and responsible for my own bills, my parents would ask me if I'd tried contacts again. Remembering all the pain, aggravation and expense, I'd avoided them! At about 30, I decided to give it one last shot. I tried. Still, the astigmatism had relegated me to the hard lenses only. I sat in the office and realized 15 years hadn't dulled my knowledge of putting those things in my eyes. But, just like 15 years prior, the best I could do before my eyes got too tired was 6-7 hours. If I put them in before work, by lunch I was getting them out fast. Nope, I was just not destined to wear contacts.

The funny part to me was that, by 15, I didn't have much vanity. I didn't care if I looked like a nerd - actually kinda took pride in that. I was a SMART girl. Sure, I didn't get invited to all the parties, was almost blackballed from the social group I joined (who never told me about meetings so I wouldn't KNOW to attend), didn't dance at the school dances, not even prom. But, I accepted that as part of being a nerd. It hurt, but I could quickly forget it as I dove into some activity I did enjoy (marching band, theater, hanging out with my real friends, working, reading).

Wow, the rambling! Anyway, it occurred to me this morning that Dad may have had the idea that he shouldn't 'help' me financially as I'd just squander away his resources. Because of those contacts when I was 13. That I don't think he ever believed hurt me and could have blinded me if I'd persisted more than I did.

**** PS - I'm having a particularly bad day today. I'm not ready to talk about it yet, but will post when I'm ready. It's not about my cPTSD, though. ****

wife2, glad to be back and in your corner again (not that i ever left it, but that i'm able to physically be here.)   all those 'little' things, like whether contacts were for you or not - what an impact they can have on our lives!  dang! 

i found out a long time ago that my eye fluid wouldn't support contacts so i couldn't even take the chance.  before that, i swore i'd never wear glasses cuz i'd look like an old fuddy duddy!  today, i wear glasses and i'm ok with them.  weird how things can change as we go along, bringing new and different perspectives to our fore.  how resilient are we still!

It's been a strange month - February. In a good way. I'm not sure why that leaves me feeling unsettled, but it does.

First, there was the email blunder. Dad got very defensive about me thinking he'd forgot me. He does, a lot, but anyway, he was defensive and upset.

So, after that, Bro & SIL and niece, nephew and great-nephew come to town. And they remember to invite me to the lunch they had planned with Mom! I went, with daughter, son and granddaughter. It was a nice time. I really did feel included, even by GC bro!

THEN, the very next weekend, Sis comes to town. AGAIN, I'm remembered. And invited. We make plans for the park. Daughter and granddaughter are ALSO remembered! It was wonderful!

As if THAT wasn't enough, Dad himself calls me on the actual phone. I didn't have great news (all of us had been sick, I was just recovered myself), so he got off the phone BUT quick - too quick to even talk to my DS. ** And he wonders why I only give him 'happy' news? ** Whatever, Dad being Dad. I just chose to be glad he actually dialed the digits on HIS phone to speak with me.

The thing is, all this attention is unsettling to me. Do I crave it? ABSOLUTELY! Was it wonderful as it was happening? YES! Was I thankful, grateful and blown away? You bet! But, there's this pit in my stomach at the same time. Was it really as simple as just letting them know I caught them leaving me out so much before? Was it really that easy?

Because it doesn't feel like it'll be a real or lasting thing. It feels like, even if I call them all this month and keep my mouth shut about any unpleasant news and let them talk all about themselves and their lives, that once I hang up, months to years will go by again before I hear from any of them.

I don't know. I want to just let it be what it is and be glad that three family members actually remembered me. Sis usually does, in her defense. But GC Bro and Dad, not so much.

I just had a radical thought. Maybe they've finally realized, after YEARS of chastising me for not letting Mom just be Mom (abusive emotionally, verbally, financially), they realized they weren't letting me be me. I doubt it. I doubt that thought even crossed their minds.

Still don't know. Still want to just be happy to be included for once. Still kind of pissed it took me pointing out the exclusion for them to get off their collective butts and DO something. Still sad that this is more likely a bump in the road than a change of heart with them.

Regardless, because how I react is about who I am, I'll call them back, send a thank you to my brother and SIL (they bought lunch, though I did have the money for me and mine), reach out to them in family friendship. If they reach back and welcome me, I will go with caution. I still feel like I might be getting set up. For what, I don't know - like an official intervention where they tell me that I'm not really welcome in the family until I change - how I'm not sure, maybe become more like them and their snobby ways? Maybe it's become fully Catholic? Shoot, I have no idea. But, that is what it feels like. Be nice to her for a while, so she actually comes to a family event. THEN, we'll let her know what we really thing.

Isn't that sadly paranoid?

Back to work for me. I just wanted to put that out there, to see if I was crazy, imagining things or just paranoid.

Peace - and breathe!

i think caution is a good thing, which is very different from paranoid and crazy (both of which i don't see in you at all!).  the history has earned caution.  better to go slowly into the water, then jump in over your head and flounder when you figure out it was deeper than you thought.

i'm cautiously glad your sibs and dad are paying some attention to you, including you and inviting you.  i hope that you can cautiously enjoy them and the situations.   i don't think it will hurt you to go slowly, do your family-friendly thing, and see what happens.  your blinders are off now, you know what the score's been.   warrior shield is up just in case.  well done all the way around, to my mind.  you go, girl!  this smells like the sweet perfume of progress!  here's some lovely lavendar for your desk to remind you how beautiful this smells.

Oh, I love the smell of lavender. Especially fresh! The canned scent is nice, but real flowers are so much more lovely! Ahhh, that has helped to put me into a good mood for this afternoon's work. Thank you very, very much, friend Sanmagic7. Thank you.

I can send you magnolia blooms or gardenia, whichever you prefer - fresh cut from my yard. Well, they'll be there in another two months anyway :-) I have a big, growing Magnolia tree centered in my front yard. It's lovely and makes the whole house smell wonderful when blooming.

you know, where i'm from, we had hardy magnolia trees - beautiful, but without the perfume.  i love gardenia, but i'd love to experience some true southern magnolia, thank you very much!  i'm loving the * outta this!

I love the magnolia's gentle fragrance. Almost as delicate as the petals of the flowers themselves.

I've had a lot to talk about today, but just not the energy to choose my words. IT was a long weekend, though not a bad one.

Anyway, I'll be back tomorrow, hopefully feeling better than today.

Venting a bit.

I've been working on controlling my reactions and thinking before I speak. Some days, I'm doing GREAT. Others, not so much. Lately, hubby has become very critical of mundane things and it's starting to work my nerves. I've chosen to stand up for myself on some occasions, but others I just sit and seethe. And that's not good.

Our son is sick, so I left work early and took him to the doctor. Granted, if hubby could legally drive, he would, but that's a BIG NO. So, I get son, we go to the doctor, and I have one thing I want to do after. Even though son feels horrible, he's ok with the one errand. So, after the appointment, I call hubby and tell him the diagnosis (vague but at least not the worst news, from doctor), that I'm on my way to do the ONE errand and then return home.

H: You might as well get more OTC medicine for DS before you come home.
Me: DS feels really bad. I'd like to get him home ASAP, then I'll go get more if I think we need more (I happen to know we have a nearly full bottle).
H: Do it YOUR way, but you'll be right there. I don't understand why you can't just handle it all at once.
Me: Do you like to be drug around when you feel bad? H, he had a fever over 102! I want to get him home and give him the meds.
H: Just do it your way (sounding disgusted)
Me: I will!

The other errand was really quick AND the store DH wanted me to use was just down the street a little. I asked DS if he was OK with me just stopping in for a minute to get his meds.

DS: Do they have a bench in there?
Me: Yes, you can sleep on the bench while I get the TWO things we need.
DS: Just get me to the bench first thing.
Me: Sure, baby. Come on. Thanks for being OK with this.
DS: I'd rather get home, but this is right here.

(By that time, we were at the store.)

I got him to the bench, got his meds and paid for them before 5 minutes were up. We got straight back to our car and I got him straight home.

When we got home, I showed hubby that I had, indeed, gone by the store for more meds for DS.

H: Why didn't you call me and tell me you were going to do that. I was expecting you back and getting worried!
Me: I didn't take 5 minutes. And it'd taken longer to call you than to just do it.
H: Still! Nobody tells me ANYTHING around here! I just wish you understood how I felt.
Me: ::: crickets :::

That was a fight trying to happen. I can guess that he was mad because he couldn't help DS more and DS is now old enough to see that Mom does all the 'heavy lifting' regarding his care. So, wounded pride caused him to lash out.

But, this has been going on more and more lately. I wish I could just understand WHY he goes through these cycles! And what I can do (besides give in on my boundaries) to get him out of these funks.

Each comment by itself isn't that bad. But, taken all together, they're a pattern of undermining and belittling me. In front of our son, usually. THAT's the biggest part that bothers me. It's a tone of, 'You're wrong and this will go so much easier on ALL of us if you'll just shut up and then admit you are WRONG and I am RIGHT. It will go even better if you just do it MY way from the start!'

He won't say that, though. He'll just pick at me and pick at me and sometimes admit he's irritated, but other times insist he was teasing and I'm being too sensitive.

Then, today, I have a day at lunch like I need so badly with him. My co-worker BFF (we've known each other a VERY long time and really are friends regardless of the job) and I went to lunch and parked under a pretty tree (for shade, and so I can smoke my ciggies - she's a non-smoker). We started talking and laughing and the more we made each other laugh, the more we made each other laugh. It was WONDERFUL! We were both nearly crying from all the laughing.

There was a time, years ago, that hubby and I could do that. I know those days are completely gone, but it sure is sad. We'll try, and we might get a few laughs in before his 'jokes' start to get racist or sexist and that kills it for me. Then, he's pouchy-lipped because I'm sour-faced. All humor leaves both of us - but it's my fault for not having a better sense of humor. ??? REALLY? Ugh.

Add that with the nitpicking getting worse again lately and I'm about to explode! AND, I've been trying to be really supportive, but he's gone on another spending on himself binge again. Ugh. And the best part? The intimacy is dead again, because when he gets like this outside the bedroom, he gets selfish in the bedroom as well.

I'm getting to where I'm tired all the time again. And I do still have a sick little boy to tend after a full day at work and grocery shopping after work. And, being around DS so much, I may have got what he's giving. Poor little guy was worried about that this morning. Hubby? Don't get sick, we can't afford for you to get sick, too. Thanks, hubby. Because, yeah. Whatever.

Anyway, on a good front, Dad actually IM'ed me and asked how we were feeling. No call this time (hates the less-than-great news), but at least it was contact! A step in the right direction. Now, to not feel like a little kid who has just been told her Dad is the REAL Santa and go rushing and gushing. To accept it for the simple communication it is and to respond in kind. (which I did, but I'm holding myself back from calling AND emailing).

HUGS. At least my DS doesn't have the flu. :-)

dear, sweet, wife2 - all the frickin' trials and tribulations that come with relationships and families is enough to drive anyone bonkers!  i hear that same thing, in the same tone of voice - you always have to do it your way, you're so stubborn, i can't say anything cuz you're so sensitive - ad nauseum!!!

dang, we love 'em anyway.  hugs back to you, sweetie. 

EF alert! Trigger warnings possible - I really don't know right now....

So, I'm 7 years old. I'm going to school with two brothers and a sister. We attend parochial school, so we're in our uniforms and we are walking the maybe quarter mile to school. It's a huge long trip to my young perspective.

Anyway, as is so common most days, I have not had a bath within the previous 2-5 days. I have not brushed my teeth or hair. My clothes were pulled out of the dirty hamper because I couldn't find a clean uniform. I may have had a bowl of cereal for breakfast, but likely not. My shoes don't fit. Who knows how many times I've worn the socks since their last washing. They may be my sister's socks.

On the way to school, older bro and sis are walking ahead. This is why they don't notice the smell or the knots in my hair. Mom was already gone to work, which is why SHE didn't notice. Only GC bro notices, which is why he teases me horribly. Does he offer help? NO. Does he say anything before we leave the house? NO. He does HIS hygiene, why should my hygiene be anyone else's problem? He just calls me trench mouth or grease monkey or dragon breath or rat head. Whatever seems to hurt me worst. This is a huge part of why he does not want to be associated with me.

Even when I get home from school, Mom won't be there to notice. sis may notice and may offer to brush my hair, but it's AFTER school and what does it matter now. I've already endured a day of teasing by all the other students.

Why doesn't a teacher call Mom and ask about it? When this keeps happening, what are the teachers thinking? That I'm mentally deficient? Because my siblings all are able to do these things (yes, they're older, yes, they were taught by someone), maybe they just thought I was slow, but would catch on.

But, nobody at home was teaching me any of these things. Mom was too busy. She started working as SOON as I was enrolled in kindergarten. I hadn't been taught these things before kindergarten because, you know I really don't understand why not. If autistic sis was already in an institution so that I would have a chance at thriving, what was keeping Mom? GC bro was 2 years older, so he started kindergarten when I was 3. That should have given Mom 2 years with just me at home to help me learn these things.

I really don't know what she did most of the time when it was just me and her at home back then. I suspect more of the same from when I was older and do remember: Reading a book while sprawled out on the sofa in front of the TV with a cigarette in one hand and a Pepsi in the other. Where was I? A playpen or my bedroom or on the front porch or in the front yard (I was afraid of the back yard and basement). Back before I started school and she started working full time, she had to do the laundry and keep the house. I'm sure she did it, because it did get done. She also cooked dinner for everyone - which was a feat - we were 8-9 strong most nights if nobody had company over.

So, what I think was happening, was she was struggling through her own depression to get the bare minimum done - laundry, dinner. The rest she would hand out to her children as chores. When she wasn't actively doing the few things she knew she MUST do, she was as I described. Nowhere in there is there time to take care of herself or tend to me or to teach me anything. I was a nuisance. Not that she didn't love me, she did love me. She just didn't have enough left in her to make that an action verb. Because of me she couldn't have ANY time to herself (in her view). Because, even if she was ignoring me, she was still responsible for me. And, if anything happened to me (which it did from time to time), she would be held accountable.

She could have kept staying at home after I started school. She really could have. Dad wanted her to, so she would be there when we got home from school. But, that wasn't the break she wanted. If she did that, she'd be responsible for maintaining the house - and that was more than she cared to do. So, she started working, to fulfill herself (or escape house-wife doldrums, whatever). Either way, she was seriously too busy to do any hygiene teaching once the job started.

I've finally got control of this EF. I need to get back to work. This is not all I felt like typing, but it's all I can do right now.

i'm just glad you had somewhere to put this, wife2, and that it helped you get control.  sending hugs and love.

I'm discovering that there are more photos of me as a baby and small child then I ever remembered. However, it's still true that in most pictures, my autistic sister and I have to be kept apart.

The thing that disturbs me is that there are quite a few of me and autistic sis both in our cribs in the same room and both SCREAMING. Not crying, not having a good old-fashioned fit. Screaming! And obviously had been for some time! And Mom thought those pictures were HILARIOUS.

She would tell me (her opinion very funny) stories of:

How sis and I would bounce our cribs around until one or the other was blocking the door. (1960's, our cribs had wheels and slide-down side wall)
How sis was taking her feces and 'finger painting' the walls with it. Or fling it.
How we would bounce our cribs against each other and grab each other through the bars of our cribs. We did not play together, so.....

These were funny to her! Oh, how she'd 'regale' me with these stories. I laughed along with her, because I'm not stupid and because I could tell that's what was expected. Oh, those funny children of hers!

There were stories of the older children, too.

* The oldest who, at 14 months, escaped Mom, then escaped her diaper to be found by a neighbor blocks away, completely naked. Yeah. Funny. Mom was only 19 at that time, so it's definitely a case of being a Mom was too much work for her, not that she didn't have the energy.

* The first son, who needed minor surgery on his little private part at age 3. Shortly after surgery, using the bathroom, the seat fell on his little recovering member. Oh, how funny that was (NOT).

There are other stories, I can't remember them all right now. Still, the theme seems to be that babies are hard to take care of and besides, left to their own devices, babies are sooo funny!

When my son was an infant, Mom wanted me to spend time with her on the front porch of my house. I left the screen door open and the bassinet right by the door, because my son was sleeping. With every sound he made, I would check on him. Mom got irritated, saying, 'My God, Wife2, he'll be fine! It's good to let a baby scream for a while sometimes' 

WHAT!??? In whose universe is it good to allow a baby, who is completely helpless and terrified, to scream because parent doesn't want to be bothered right then? Seriously. They cry when it's minor. They scream when it's urgent. So, ignoring an urgent need for an infant makes sense how? Helps with bonding and attachment and trust between baby and parent? When I wouldn't follow her lead, Mom rolled her eyes and was completely disgusted with how overbearing and overprotective of my son I was shaping up to be.

Fast forward 8 years. My son may still hate to be disciplined by me, but he fundamentally trusts me to have his best interest at heart. The few times I've been in the house and didn't hear him hollering for me, he was devastated! When I did finally go to him, or he came to me, he was crying and shaken. That was not normal! ** I now see that his trust for me was based on the fact that I DO respond, even when I don't feel like it. That tells me I did the right thing, responding to cries consistently throughout his infancy and childhood.

I did take one picture of him having a fit in his crib. Yes, to me it's funny. Not hilarious, but funny, because I remember that the issue was he had just had a bath and he HATED baths. He was still angry. As soon as I took the picture, I put the camera down and soothed him. It took half an hour for him to trust my love and fall asleep. That's ONE incident.

And, he was never left alone with a dirty diaper on long enough to get curious, go digging and decide to make art out of the media he found there. I find that immensely neglectful. Even though his favorite time to pass solids was RIGHT after I'd changed a wet diaper! Ugh, but change again, anyway. Because I'm the adult and it's MY job to ensure my child's health and welfare.

Ugh!

ugh turned around is hug, and here's one for you    :hug:.

i've heard that saying over the years as well - let the baby cry, it's good for their lungs, you'll spoil them, they're not being hurt, you don't have to run every time there's a whimper, etc.  i ignored all that 'sage' advice as well.  it never made sense to me, either.  same thing with soiled diapers.  ugh!  who wants to walk around in their own waste? 

once again, glad you're getting this crapola out of you.  yay!  ugly stuff that only festers when we keep it in.  hope your day goes well. 

Thank you, San!  :hug: back to you as well!

My day is actually going pretty well - the sunshine is helping. Also, I email talked to a person I haven't seen in 40 years! It's been nice catching up with him. That has brought some memories back, but they've been good memories.

Back to work. Lots to do and it'll keep my mind off of any of the yuckies.  :hug: again!

Ok - trigger warnings - sadness, depression, things that would make anyone sad, just all kinds of downers *** If you don't want to read about really sad stuff, click away NOW ***


Really, gang. If you're still reading, that's on you. I did warn you.....




I tracked down the young man who had been a foreign exchange student with my family for a year. He's alive and well, back in his home country. I couldn't resist, so I reached out to talk to him. Days had gone by and I didn't hear. So, figuring after 40 years, he'd forgot or lost interest, I made one more contact to let him know that it's ok. But, he texted back! We began chatting for a bit. Because of the time difference, we decided email would work better.

I told him about what I was doing, what Mom was doing, what some of my sibs are up to. He noticed the lack of information about the two siblings he'd been closest with. I was afraid that would happen and instantly regretted getting in touch at all. With a sad heart, I gave him the information that, yes, both siblings had died. So had the third sibling he asked about. So had the uncle he'd asked about. In one email, he was told about a total of 5 deaths in the family that I've had decades to cope with - and still struggle.

Understandably, he was very shaken by all the sad news. I want to get past that onto building a relationship as a friend with him, but even more, I don't want to push him. This is a lot of sad news to take in all at once. That was last Friday. I've felt very bad for even bothering him, knowing that this would be hard for anyone to take.

Also, I've been going through lots of memories. Most good, but some were pretty lousy.

Sunday I'd borne all I could bear. I started crying. I made sure hubby and DS wouldn't 'catch' me crying as it's rare enough to upset them. Plus, I've been getting sicker with the sinus thing going around the office - so I knew it would get messy. I had a good half-hour cry.

Later, I told hubby about the cry and why I was feeling somewhat blue. He was somewhat upset and somewhat understanding. He said he wished he knew some way to make me feel better. I told him I needed a REAL HUG really badly. He tried. It was a good hug. But, asking someone who doesn't do touchy-feely well for a hug is like asking someone with bad teeth to smile. They'll do it, but just enough to qualify and only for as long as required.

During the hug, I told him how much it meant to me (got a longer hug that way) and that he is the only person I have really loved with the depth I loved my lost siblings. That made it too emotional for him and he had to back away. Literally and figuratively. I understood and let him go. It was hard, though.

Later, I told him that the reason I'd needed that hug so badly was that I was the one who was there for others after sis and bro died. My family all had someone they could lean on (wives, husbands, siblings). Mom had me. I had therapists (and a best friend, who was overwhelmed by it all).

Then, I got to thinking that my foreign friend had nobody to help him process this, that I know about. And that it was rather cold of me to just drop all that news on him at once. I justified it to myself saying that he had asked. I was able to give some good news as well - about Dad and Mom. Still, I was depressed at being the source of such horrible news, when all I really wanted to do was to get back in touch.

Then, hubby, seeing that I was still depressed expressed his hope that I get over this soon and that he wished I'd never got in touch with that fellow if this is the result. He's used to me being even keel, and this having me be depressed where even HE can't deny it is scaring him. HE's supposed to be the emotional one, not me. And, when I'm emotional, he doesn't get his sexual reset from me. So, he's starting to feel the pressure of being responsible for his own emotions and that's sucking big time.

I've been trying to 'act' less depressed, but becoming very sick at the same time hasn't helped. It makes total sense to me and to hubby, but being depressed left me open to catch a bad sinus infection which immediately became bronchitis for me. I can't take time from work and even if I did, it wouldn't be restful. Hubby has a bad habit of wanting me to carry him places while I'm home, failing to catch on that I'm not there for him, I'm there to rest and recover from my illness! But, since I'm there....

So, I've been mediating over-the-counter for all the symptoms, hoping that will be enough to get me well. ** Removed rant against insurance company, lousy coverage and sad lack of ONE doctor that all these specialists I seem to need should be talking to - for an overall picture of a wellness plan for me **

And, while all this was going on, it occurred to me how my father justified being so absent from my life. It's just that he thought I was OK and that so-and-so needed him more. Sure, I might need my father, but so-and-so needed him just that much more. And wouldn't it be selfish of me to ask for my father to care more about me than her/him? Wasn't I being self-centered to even ask?

All my life, this was the case with Autistic sis - she really did need him more. Then, it was my step-siblings - both of whom had iffy relationships with their fathers. So, he had to be there for them, because they needed him more than I did. At least I knew my Dad loved me! And I did. I knew. He just had to be away for them.

'And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon. Little boy blue and the man in the moon. When you coming home, Dad, I don't know when, but we'll get together then, son. I know we'll have a good time then.'

That song always did make me cry. I so know how the son felt in that song.

So, I'm depressed, realizing that my Dad wasn't a bad guy, just unaware of the damage he was causing by always putting me lower on the list than I needed to be. I'm depressed, reliving the losses of my siblings as my friend must be feeling them. Grieving their loss and grieving with my friend who's just learned about the losses. I'm sick with this bronchitis. I'm not sleeping well because of the coughing (at least). Son is not liking that I'm not at his every beck and call. Hubby is not liking that I'm genuinely too sick for his reset and losing patience with it all. I'm too tired to fight with them, so I go hide in the sleep that has been granted to me by them. And at work, I'm just sick enough to struggle to get my job done and not sick enough to justify going home.

Good God - anyone got a violin handy? What a self-pity party! Dad was a good man. Hubby is a good man. DS is becoming a good man. My friend is a good man who is hurting because of what *I* chose to do. I have an infection, big deal. Get over myself and get going!! I keep trying to hide from the fact that it is my fault my friend is upset. I could have found a kinder way to break the news. But, I didn't and he's hurting. NO amount of illness or 'blame-daddy' is going to remove the fact that my actions had consequences. Bad ones. That's the truth.

sweetie, i'm in a bad place today, couldn't read your post, but want you to know i'm still with you.    :hug:

Hugs to you wife!  :hug:

QuoteSo, I'm depressed, realizing that my Dad wasn't a bad guy, just unaware of the damage he was causing by always putting me lower on the list than I needed to be. I'm depressed, reliving the losses of my siblings as my friend must be feeling them. Grieving their loss and grieving with my friend who's just learned about the losses. I'm sick with this bronchitis. I'm not sleeping well because of the coughing (at least). Son is not liking that I'm not at his every beck and call. Hubby is not liking that I'm genuinely too sick for his reset and losing patience with it all. I'm too tired to fight with them, so I go hide in the sleep that has been granted to me by them. And at work, I'm just sick enough to struggle to get my job done and not sick enough to justify going home.

You are being really hard on yourself.  You did nothing wrong in telling your friend about the deaths in your family.  I am sure he can handle it.  It is not your responsibility to handle feelings for someone else.  You are hurting and you deserve support.  Your autistic sister and step-siblings were no more deserving of your dads support than you were.  You were important.  Your needs mattered.  You have a right to feel sad.  It is not a pity-party.  Cats in the cradle always makes me cry too.  There is a reason this song is sad to us.  We didn't have our needs met.

:hug:

thank you all!

I did take two days off last week, and almost dared hubby to make the time from work about him. I got to the doctor, got my meds, got home, got in bed and slept. I've done only what needed doing since then. More than I should have had to do (having a fever, which is why I stayed home), but less than I could have.

I got rest. Real rest. I didn't think about (let me give him the fake name of Sadiqi (means friend in Arabic)) too much. I'd given him my work & home emails, but didn't check at home. I needed the break for a bit.

Hubby is now determined that I give him the precise time he may resume receiving his husbandly 'due'. Or, when is my medicine done, so that HE can calculate when I should be returning to wifely duties. He tried being supportive and understanding, but that only went so far. Last night, instead of comfort, I asked ONE question and got two hours of details about why his best friend has irked him - but that man's wife is WONDERFUL, allowing him to be home all day every day while she works, and she still does most of the housekeeping and isn't that the way it really should be?

::: Shaking head :::: Anyway, I'm better now, returned to work and back in my life. ::: Nodding ::: I'm returning to myself. I'm beginning to remember that I'm allowed to count and that if Sadiqi can't handle the news I've given to him, he needs to let me know. I can just disappear for another 40 years if that makes his life better. I will miss him again and I will wonder how he is, but my life WILL still be complete even if he can't be a part of it.

 :hug: to you Wife2

Hope  :)

And, the roller-coaster continues.

First hill:  stove caught fire while hubby was cooking dinner last week. Major upset for all - hubby was convinced that he was about to burn down the house. I was proud of how he responded (getting fire out, then stove out of the house) and very relieved that he didn't get hurt (not in that order, folks). Not wanting to admit he doesn't CLEAN the stove - like ever - he tried to blame everyone else for the grease under the eye that caused it. I had to remind him that he does 85-90% of all the cooking. Not as a matter of blaming him, just as a matter of refusing to be blamed.

Good news - got another stove/oven and the new one works better than the old one EVER did. Loving it! And, I'm allowed to cook now.

Second hill: DS is still having tantrum style outbursts. At school, on the bus and at  home. DH lost his cool and really yelled at poor kid. In H defense, DS was being like a toddler with the tantrum at home. In DS's defense, yelling fixes NOTHING EVER. :: Shakes head. History in our family is more like a merry-go-round. Yellow bar - DS pouts and throws tantrum. Green bar - I try to teach DS better methods than tantrum. RED bar - H hears it all from down the hall and begins yelling from there. ::

Good news - DS is on honor roll and having fewer tantrums at school. He's 8 - way too old for tantrums.

Third hill: Get papers that sound like DS is being forced into a summer 'turn-troubled-kids-around' program through school. We think it's related to that really bad situation a couple of months back. H looses his cool and goes ballistic. Keeps hands off DS for fear of how I will react. I'm angry, too, but trying to keep quiet so kid doesn't feel completely abandoned by his parents. Quietly talk with DS later, calmly restate DH and my expectations of him. DS realizes this is WAY more serious than he previously thought.

Good news: It's a voluntary day-camp for kids who the school felt might get into trouble without something structured to do. DS doesn't want to go, we aren't going to make him.

Coworkers didn't forget to include me in latest office group function. YUM and I'm grateful.

This was going to be a rant. If I hadn't been so busy at work, it might have been. But, the day had a chance to play out and it ended up pretty good.

What makes me proud of myself:
1) Staying calm when told about the fire. Minor EF to childhood, but easily managed once I realized what was going on.
2) Catching myself dissociating and trying to bring myself back to the present. Successful more than I expected.
3) Didn't try to steal the spotlight when celebrating daughter's new job. Didn't allow DS or DH to do that either.
4) Kept hubby from over-reacting without having to say a word in front of DS. Called hubby on over-reacting so often (later, in private) by admitting honestly that I do that too, sometimes. He did agree.
5) Been getting my job done better as well. Not as well as I absolutely can, but better.

I know we're works in progress, but I really have felt good about progress today.  :hug: to all of you who've waded through the long and painful posts. It's really, really nice to be able to post a good day.

yay for you, wife2.  you so deserve a good day!  well done on all counts.  yahoo!

Well done, Wife! You're an encouragement! :cheer:

Ugh. *** Trigger warning - manipulation by a master PD ***


Then, I get home. All's well through dinner and with daughter, who stopped in to pick up HER daughter. While I'm doing dishes, the phone rings. Mom calling, sounding all cheerful. Telling me as if it's a big joke that she was feeling dizzy and had fallen. She was up and fine but wanted me to come over for a bit.

Remembering last Halloween when her medical problem ended up just being loneliness, I was suspicious, but told her on the phone that if she had fallen, she was going to see a doctor. I realize now that she was playing me and that she didn't WANT to go see a doctor. She wanted company. I feel for it anyway. BUT, when I got there, she greeted me at the door (locked even though she knew I was coming over) with another dizzy spell. So, I told her we were seeing a doctor before I went home. Her choice - a clinic or the ER.

This is another part where she played me. AND I FELL FOR IT. She tells me she put a call in to the ER doctor who used to be her physician before leaving the practice for the ER full time. I don't know. I just remember her telling me about that months ago (his going to ER full time). So, we wait for a call-back and she gets her visit with daughter time. She calls again, leaves ANOTHER message for that doctor. We wait maybe 15 more minutes and I've had enough. It's time to GO somewhere and get this moving forward. She chooses ER - after all, that's where her preferred doctor now works. Whatever, as long as I don't get petulant Mom on my hands.

I walk her in, get her registered, move the car, and we sit in the ER - which is the most crowded I've ever seen it - and that's saying something. Registration nurse laughs - That's Monday night for you.

TWO HOURS LATER, which actually isn't bad of an ER wait, we get up. She doesn't feel dizzy anymore and I've got to get home. Hubby has already put DS to bed without me. I tell her we're letting the registration staff know we're leaving. Suddenly, Mom is the next patient. They wheelchair her to a room and start running tests. ALSO, they tell me that Mom can get non-emergency transport back home if I need to leave. Mom's tests are looking good, but they want to run more. An old woman (78), with a heart condition and high blood pressure, reports being dizzy, falling, hitting her head - they run ALL the tests. While they're doing this, Mom realizes I have to work the next day (today) and that it's unfair to keep me when she has another way home.

I leave and get home with barely enough time to try to unwind before I have to get to sleep. Hubby calls me out, showing how I just got played again. Mom never did intend to see a doctor! She wanted company. I will only go over at the drop of a hat when it's medical (still - I keep falling for that!). Otherwise, I arrange public meetings - restaurants, park, etc. I know he's right, agree he's right and say once again, 'I don't know how to put that last bit of distance between us. I know I should just call her an ambulance and be done with it, but no. I fall for the visit plea. Again.

Hubby reminds me of Halloween. If anything should have taught me it was last Halloween. I posted about it. She got me.

When will I learn? What will it take? Another Halloween-type incident, worse than last night?

Oh, and the part that makes me feel like such a big heel - even more than being a 'SUCKER'? I had promised DS that when I finished dishes, he and I would spend time together, just me and him. Yeah, poor kid had to wave as I drove away and was already in bed when I got back home. The part Mom doesn't get. The disappointed child left at home. That's the part that rips my heart. AND, he was so nice and understanding about it this morning! Even when Mom called before we left the house - just to tell me she was dehydrated (duh, she only drinks soda) and had a bladder infection. THAT was why she hit the floor.  DS was still sweet and kind to me. I didn't promise, because I don't want to break another promise so soon, but unless someone is on fire, DS and I are spending quality time together this evening. And hubby and I are as well after DS goes to bed.

:doh: and  :pissed: @ myself for falling for it again. Ugh.

Quote from: Wife#2 on April 11, 2017, 01:03:33 PMshe played me. AND I FELL FOR IT.

I dunno, wife#2... you're awfully hard on yourself. Most of this post made me think of Karyl McBride, who got to the point of treating her mother like a naughty child, and wrote a book about it: Will I Ever Be Good Enough? Healing the daughters of narcissistic mothers.

I reckon you're doing really well. Maybe a sorting of priorities, some iron-clad boundaries as to what you will and won't do, and for how long, and then :yahoo:!

Quotethey tell me that Mom can get non-emergency transport back home if I need to leave.

Something to remember for next time. There will be a next time, won't there? You can drop her off at the ER exit and let the medicos take it from there.

QuoteI know I should just call her an ambulance and be done with it

Better still!

QuoteThe part Mom doesn't get. The disappointed child left at home. That's the part that rips my heart. AND, he was so nice and understanding about it this morning!

So catering to Mom/Grandma is being handed down...

Off to look for your Hallowe'en experience. I bet it's a corker!

Ugh, roaches. You only have to look at them to see how evil and disgusting they are.

I get shivers seeing the WORD. They've been such a huge part of my entire life. Because she never could do what needs to be done to get rid of them. YUCK.

The years that shaped me: *** Possible Triggers of parentifcation, neglect, child-as-servant ***

I've been thinking about a lot of different aspects of how I turned out this way. I get confused about a lot of things, because I'm not sure what are memories, what are stories I heard so often, my imagination turned them into memories or what is just family lore. From my childhood, I have to just take the word of the older children about what used to go on. That's harder with my two closest siblings now dead. They were the truth-tellers to me. Even if it hurt my feelings, even if it made parents or even themselves look bad.

So, I think the years that shaped me the most were the years when it was just me and Mom in the home. Dad had left, married again. Oldest was married with her own family. Next got married during those years, that's a sweet-but-drama-filled tale in itself. Oldest brother was still living a secret life, not yet ready to own his homosexuality, though nobody doubted it by then. Middle sis was off to England, then off to college, never to live with either parent again. GC bro was finishing out high school in another town, then joining the Army. Autistic sis was institutionalized in a very high quality resident facility.

The thing I didn't delve into too much during those four years of just me and Mom was the dynamic that seemed to settle into our routine. More and more as the years went on, I became more of a caretaker to Mom. It wasn't overt, but it was there. She taught me to do my laundry, then it wasn't her job anymore. She had already taught me to do dishes, they weren't her job for a long time. (I was grateful for the apartments that had dish-washers!) She taught me to vacuum, dust, cook, everything I'd need as an adult. The responsible part of me was glad, until I noticed that I was doing these things and she was doing.... nothing.

Most evenings when she came home from work, I was expected to have my homework done, the trash removed, the litter emptied, the dishes clean and something chosen for dinner. We ate a lot of frozen dinners. Even though Mom would spend hundreds on groceries, most went bad in the fridge or gathered dust in the pantry. After dinner, I'd listen to her talk about her day while rubbing her feet. I'd go to my room and finish any homework still undone. She'd never been a Mom who checked homework. I did it because I wanted good grades so I could go to college. Later, we'd watch some TV together or I'd watch while she read the paper. Sometimes, she'd want to talk about a news story or whatever. We'd talk about it. I was always aware that having opinions other than Mom's was not a good idea. So, I wasn't a 'Devil's Advocate' so much as a mirror - reflecting back to her the image she expected.

When I needed a ride to the library for school, I dreaded asking her. It was always made known how put-upon she was because she was so tired from working (in an office job - marketing). When I needed a ride to a babysitting job, I could sense, though she never said it, that I should share my earnings because she'd made them possible. Often, I chose to walk or got the parents to pick me up from home. When I started working a real job (fast food, I was in high school!), I really started to have to get my own transportation! And if I was in a play or in the marching band or needed to go to rehearsals for either, I was on my own. I chose to walk a lot. All of this walking was done by a girl of less than 100 lbs at dusk or night in a middle-sized city - and not the best neighborhood of that city. I didn't know enough to be scared. She didn't seem to mind the risk to me.

There were different times when she made choices that were great for her, but not so great for me as her child. Like picking the house to rent that both of her children hated on site (at that point, GC bro wasn't sure if he was moving with us or not - that house may have decided him). Like taking the second job at the home security service center overnight, leaving a 15 year-old home alone with no transportation. Like dragging her daughter to rehearsals for the local Little Theater, which often went well past midnight, on school nights. Like travelling out of town for up to a week at a time with a 14/15 year-old at home alone.

By the time these things were happening, Dad had left the state, oldest two never lived in that state, next two had left the state and GC bro was in the military. Aunts and Uncles lived in other states. Mom and I were essentially alone. And her way of dealing with having a teenaged daughter at home was to not deal with it. She lived the life she wanted and if I was inconvenienced, oh well. She'd put off having her own life long enough.

She had a pretty good job, got child support for me, got alimony and even though she hardly spent a dime on me most of the time, she was always broke. She had lots of new, nice clothes - she 'had to have them' for her Fashion-Forward marketing job. OK. I bought that. But, my clothes came used after the fashion shows - thank goodness I was 'model' sized. Even my prom dress was used from a fashion show. At least, she did pay to have it altered to fit me better. I guess I do have to give her that. IF she ever paid the woman.

When the company downsized and eliminated her position (the only management position eliminated ?!?), she moved to another state for a job, while I was away at college. My stuff was stuffed into green trash bags and put into what would be my new bedroom. That's how I found it when I visited the first time. She was still in that house when college ended for me. She had the bedroom - but she wouldn't get child support for me anymore. So, I guess I was denied parental help because nobody would pay her to give me refuge. I was an adult and it was 'tough luck' time.

**** I just thought about something. That may have played into Dad's decision to stop my college. At that point, both my parents had left the state where I attended school. I bet his decision had more to do with that fact then my grades or brother's unpaid loan.  I hadn't lied about my mother's address change and he wasn't going to pay out-of-state rates for me to continue. Hmmmmm  ****

The upside to living with Mom during this time is that she gave me the teen years she had wanted. No restrictions, no bed-times, no curfews. The rules were unstated - make sure Mom is happy and feeling appreciated and everything will be just fine. Don't have needs, though. And, don't be disloyal and tell Dad that I provided for most of my own stuff through babysitting, etc and my clothes were all used. Don't let him think she's a bad Mom. Give a good front because nothing would be more humiliating to her than to have her ex and his new wife be able to bring her to task over her parenting. Because more than anything, she could not bare the thought that my stepmother would have ANYTHING to say to HER about parenting HER child.

During these years, Mom's other children almost never visited, rarely called and even more rarely wrote. Even my GC brother didn't visit her when Dad was still able to have every-other-weekend visitation.

I can think of dozens of situations where she would tell me what was going on, in a way that tried to blame my Dad - because he was responsible for EVERYTHING BAD that EVER happened to her after the divorce.

She couldn't pay a mortgage and raise two teens on alimony and child support, so Dad was to blame. She had to move to another city and abandon that house, and THAT was Dad's fault, too.

She rented a house that had an oil furnace. It was Dad's fault that we ran out of oil on Christmas Eve and she had to pay a premium to get the men out there on Christmas to refill it. I guess it was his fault that house was haunted, too?

If his check was even a day late, she was burning up the phone line saying words I didn't previously know she knew.

I was privy to all this because, until she made a new circle of friends in the new city, I was her only support. She wouldn't talk to her brother or sister, she felt judged by both of them. Both her parents were dead. In the city of the divorce, all the friends were my Dad's friends, except one. So, I was her support system, at the ages of 12-15. She wouldn't talk to the older siblings about it, or she did and I didn't know it - that's always possible.

Anyway, that's what set up the messed up enmeshed relationship with Mom. My needs didn't matter, unless she was feeling magnanimous and there was a public view possible. I learned to blame others for my shortcomings. I'd learned that giving teenagers all the freedom they wanted was supposed to build good character (stay up too late, you still have to go to school - THAT's how you learn responsibility). I'd learned that trying to earn the spotlight would fail. She had many more resources and methods for stealing the spotlight or ruining it for me. She could even manage to ruin it while sounding like a 'good parent'.

My heart-Mom sister would invite me to visit her, pay for it, and try to undo all that Mom was 'teaching' me during those short visits. Sis was under no illusion about Mom. She'd broken free at 16 and had good emotional awareness by 21. While Dad 'worried' about me from afar and Mom used me to her own means, Sis was constantly trying to keep me from sinking into the FOG. It didn't work very well, and when Mom gave me a place to be in my 20's when I needed it, I felt obligated to be her ally.

When sis died, I became Mom's crutch. I was glad to be there for her, except that it completely stifled me. When my brother died, I had already built some distance with Mom, but was still pretty deeply enmeshed. I THOUGHT I wasn't, but I was. When Autistic sister died, I completely allowed Mom to take me over for a while. I had so much guilt over that sister, as did Mom, that it felt like Mom and I had to meld to make one functional human being. AND, to attend that funeral, we had to enter the snake's nest - the region of the country where stepmother's family lived.

Wandering mind.... How dare Dad try to make Mom feel guilty or shamed for not visiting Autistic sister, when he'd had sister set up in a half-way house in the town that stepmother's family called home for generations? How dare he pretend to know her and her limitations AND set her up for that kind of fall? How dare he? He'd have been kinder to set Autistic sis in HIS city, where he and his wife currently live, than to leave her in that region of the country which has NOTHING good for Mom up there. Reminders of heartache and a failed marriage and the child that her body caused to be autistic. Who in their right mind would want to visit such a place, knowing the child you were visiting didn't even know you as Mom? Couldn't know you as Mom.  I guess that may have been more narcissistic setup by stepmother - Look what a GOOD WOMAN I am, from such GOOD PEOPLE, who visit this poor, damaged child of my husband and his Ex-wife - we visit her child more than SHE does! Yes, she lives a very long distance away and my family are EVERYWHERE in this town, so I can visit family at the same time I 'visit' that poor child. Still, I see that child more than SHE does.

OMG. I've been in such a FOG, my father is in one as well. He doesn't even see how she sets Mom up over and over again, using my Dad to accomplish it. SHE is the ANGEL and Mom is the Devil. And, now that I've defended my mother to her and Dad a few times, I'm in the Devil camp.

I'm just realizing that I've been painted black by my stepmother and that's why things are getting worse between Dad and me, even as she and he declare that they want to be closer.

Wow, I need new glasses, I've been so blind! I've put so much of this on Dad. Yes, Dad is ultimately responsible for how he treats me and what he says to me, but I think he's been manipulated a lot more than he realizes or would admit - even with proof.

As much as I was ever enmeshed with Mom, my Dad is enmeshed with his wife. He declares it a great marriage because they are ALWAYS together, ALWAYS working on things and ALWAYS communicating. OK, that does look like a good marriage. But, she's sneaky. Mom was right about that. She's good at making things sound like HIS idea, but it always manages to go her way. Point in case, I bet if I asked if I could bring DS up to visit again this summer, she'd hem and haw and finally ask if they could have him to themselves (no me around this time - because I smoke). They'd make it sound like what they want. But, when we were there last time, she barely spent any one-on-one time with DS. Dad barely spend any one-on-one time with him. I stayed there, fearing that he would be too much for them.

It may be as simple as how much I look like Mom. I really do look like a clone project, we're that similar. Stepmother favors the step-children who look like her husband.

Brain hurts and I've got to get back to work.

Boss just came in and wrote me up for a small mistake last week. First write-up in 12 years and I'm pissed. Maybe it has to do with how much she reminds me of my stepmother. Maybe it's because she's petty and I can't stand petty. I don't know. Gotta go.

i'm not surprised your brain started hurting.  those realizations can be extremely heavy.  good for you, tho, for allowing them to come to the fore.  it sounds like a few more pieces fell into place for you, and i'm glad of that.  piecing this stuff together, gathering it up to connect smaller pieces and making larger ones is work.  i hope it was worth it to you - i know it has been for me.

i give you a lot of credit, wife2, for continuing to go after this stuff.  it takes guts. 

by the by, i hate petty people, too.  dang, they are irritating!  there's so much more to life!  big hug to you, my dear.

Thank you for the hug, San.

I think I'm pushing too hard, too fast. Especially to not be in therapy at the moment. I'm sinking into depression and I'm getting pretty irritable as a result.

I've tried to 'fake it till I make it', planting a smile on my face, hoping it'll take root. No such luck. Everyone is noticing.

It doesn't help that adult son popped his knee last week and has been a sour mean person towards me and hubby ever since. Hubby and I have tried to do everything we can to make adult DS' life better. We get verbally snapped at and we had enough the other day. I was asking a simple question, before he went storming out of the house, not to return until after my bedtime, because it did need an answer before the next morning. *Chomp, chomp* I almost let it go, but hubby had enough. Hubby lit into adult DS. This is not uncommon.

One difference this time, adult DS admitted he was being a jerk and had been being a jerk since his injury. Youth is helping him heal quickly - for that we are all thankful. Still, he has concerns. We've tried to help with those concerns. We got bitterness and anger for our troubles. While hubby was talking to DS, it almost went down the rabbit hole.  I just didn't have the energy to try to sooth DS or hubby or other DS (who could hear this all from the other room), or myself. So, I shut hubby down, told DS that we'd continue to help, but only if he fixed that attitude towards us. Otherwise, he could exit the house permanently. Which in some ways would suit me fine. I love the boy, but he's nearly 25 and he's never been full-time responsible for himself and all his bills. It's soon going to be time.

As with our oldest, the door will always be open if he gets out there and fails. But, just as with his oldest sister, he won't get the pick of the rooms and he may not like the new terms. Still, we will provide a soft place to land if needed. I sometimes wish he'd go ahead and get out there and TRY adult life for a while. I hope it'll teach him to appreciate people in his life who DO care for him and want the best for him. And, maybe he'll learn that money is nice to have, but it won't be your friend and it won't love you back.

Rambling again. The point was supposed to be: It's getting harder and harder for me to step in and be the referee between adult DS and hubby. Last Saturday, it was just more convenient to me to shut down the 'lecture', let DS get out of the house and STOP THE DRAMA.

So tired. So depressed. Want to cry, but just can't make any tears today.

 :bighug:

parenting is so hard - co-parenting is so harder.  maybe you are going too fast, delving into things too quickly and intensely.  maybe it's time for some time for you - truthfully, i'm glad you backed out of that drama.  dad has some responsibility here, too.

referee is a sucky role to play in a family.  that kid is an adult now - he deserves to be treated like one, which means dealing with other adults (like his dad) on an adult level, having adult responsibilities around the house, etc.  i started my girls doing their own laundry when they were 13 - it was their rite of passage, of sorts.  they were used to tossing their clothes around when they were dirty, not putting them away when they were clean, so i let them be responsible for how they wanted to look.  it worked out well, and i was always there if they had questions.

you've got plenty to do with working full time, and being such a caring mom to your youngest boy and a good partner to your hub.  maybe that's enough for now. 

my heart is with you, wife2.  always.

I'm pretty badly triggered right now and I think I know why.

First, I get a call from DS. He's at school, he's been sick and needs to go home. I'm at lunch when I get the call. I've missed a lot of time lately for family illness or injury and it's beginning to show in my boss' attitude towards me. So, dreading but wanting to be there for DS, I prepare to ask AGAIN for time to attend to my family.

I call hubby first. He wants me to call adult DSD, realizes he can use home phone, though I'm pretty sure she's working today. He gets no answer. Then, he calls DSS - who will go get DS from school. DSS is driving again, but not yet released to work. Meanwhile, I decided to drive back to work in case this plan failed. While driving, I turned off my ringer. I get an earful from hubby about that. Because he'd called while I was driving. Lots of 'Why bother having a phone if you won't answer' and 'Why do I pay for that (he doesn't, I do)'. I try to explain, get interrupted and decide to not bother. Because I'm already triggered. And I finally realize why.

I was relegated to the care of a sibling by my mother at about the same age. I hated it. I wanted my mother! But, Mom was too busy at work. And here I am, being 'too busy at work' to go get him and care for him. I hate this. I want to cry! And everyone else sees this as the most reasonable, responsible and logical course of action. It's just me screaming inside my head - NO! I want to be there for my son the way my mother wasn't there for me!!! This isn't fair! He'll remember this for the rest of his life!

So, now I feel slightly sick, headachy and sad. So very sad. Do I understand more why Mom did that? Yes, says the grownup me. NO says the 8-year-old me. 8YO me says, 'Mommy was NEVER there for me and all I want is my Mommy to give me a hug and tell me I'm going to be ok. That's all. Is that really too much to ask?'

And the way things have been here at work lately, I really wouldn't care if I lost my job because I was caring for my family more than my paycheck. I know that's 'irresponsible' and I don't care. So, I sit here. Head hurting. Wanting to hug my son and tell him, 'It's ok. You're going to be fine.'
:'(

and a soothing, caring embrace for you to rest your head for a moment, let out a sigh, and know that you are not your mother.  the relationship you have with your son is nothing like the relationship between you and your mother.  you are so caring and nurturing with him, always thinking about what's best for him, wife2. 

you don't always have the support you need for this dynamic to flow smoothly, and i'm sorry for that.   it absolutely gets to us at times; hence, the irresponsible thoughts.  you're so far from irresponsible, it's not even in the same ballpark. 

as a wise woman often says - breathe.  breathe in the light, and slowly breathe out the toxins, the neg. self-flagellation, and the guilt.  those don't belong to you, they're not yours, you can let them go, gently, so they don't scatter all over your head like so much dust.

you are brave and kind and caring with your family, and you deserve to keep that in mind and  honor that.  i'm proud to call you my friend.   big hug. 

Thank you so much for the reminder, the mirror and the big hug. I needed all of them.

Yes, breathing did help. I wish I'd remembered that yesterday! LOL.

When I got home, DS was feeling completely better, bouncing as he often does, playing on his PlayStation with is niece. We all went her award ceremony, the way we originally wanted to. It was a good evening.

Except, I hadn't breathed yet. Not the deep, healing kind. So, I did take the time when I read your post this morning. Thank you! It's helping me get through what must be a long day based on my job. In three seconds, out five. In with the clean air, out with the toxins and stress and fear and guilt.

Much better now. :yes:   

love and hugs, always.

This is what I get for reading so many other posts! With all love and respect, it's good for me, but it's also very triggering. Having said that - *** TRIGGER ALERT ***

Reading another's post put me into a bit of a quandary. What do my parents think of me? They must be confused since my relationship with them isn't like my relationship with their other children. Even their grandchildren have better relationships. What do I see? Them not trying overly hard. The occasional email from Dad asking, 'How are you? love Dad.' That's pretty much it. Or the phone calls from Mom in crisis, needing me to drop everything to be there for her. Then, crickets. Until her next 'crisis'.

If actions speak louder than words, what are their actions telling me?

1) I'm not really family. They stay very close to family. Calling, emailing, visiting in person.
2) Efforts ARE made. Dad's are visible (those nothing emails). Mom's crisis calls. Birthday/holiday gifts from Dad.
3) Mom only needs me when all other relatives are unavailable.
4) Visiting me is too much work. Helping me visit them is out of the question. But, if I'm willing to do all the work, then ok. They'll put up with me.
5) Siblings have been NC for a very long time. Last to go NC was not oldest sis. I guess I'm not enmeshed enough to suit her anymore.

I've been excluded so long, it's a habit. My brother doesn't even know my phone number. My sisters know it, but the oldest has never dialed it. Not oldest used to call, but stopped as I said earlier.

Anyway, it's enough to convince me that they all think I'm crazy. I'm not. I had a different experience of our parents than they did. Not one of them was actually rejected by Dad for a place to live. Not one of them had to live with Mom for 5 years - JUST Mom. Not one of them, so they DON'T know what my life is like or why I react the way I do, even though we're siblings.

I've got to go, but I've got food for thought tonight....

Quote from: Wife#2 on May 02, 2017, 09:03:10 PM
they all think I'm crazy. I'm not. I had a different experience of our parents than they did.

Same here. It hurts that they can't see it, doesn't it? But in my case at least, I think it's won't rather than can't. As far as I know my sibs have no reason to think of me at all...

Come here and get a big hug from a 'heart-sister'!!!! Please?

I much prefer my chosen family members, my heart family members. Will you be my heart-sister? Because, Candid, I've come to love you like a valued, true, caring sister. I actually had a blood sister like this, until middle sister died. Nobody can have her spot in my heart, but there's a spot right next to that where you, SanMagic, Three Roses, Tea and several others have been placed.

We must explore, feel and move through what we experienced, and integrate those parts of us into the whole for us to heal. It is hard enough, even with caring folks like you all here in my heart. It would be impossible without you.  :hug:

Quote from: Wife#2 on May 03, 2017, 01:01:19 PM
Come here and get a big hug from a 'heart-sister'!!!! Please?

:bighug:

QuoteWill you be my heart-sister?

:yes:

QuoteIt is hard enough, even with caring folks like you all here in my heart. It would be impossible without you.  :hug:

:yeahthat:

i had a long talk with my bro once about how kids always grow up with different parents, even if they're the same 2 people for all the kids.  kid #1 has brand new parents.  kid #2 has parents with 2 kids, more experience, are older, different perspectives on life, etc.  and down the line for all subsequent kids.  we really do all grow up with different parents and different experiences with them.

he couldn't understand my traumatization until i gave him a few examples of what happened.  then, he was shocked.  he's 9 yrs. younger than me, and my sis and i were out of the house, living across the country by the time he became a teen.  he had our parents all to himself.  very different scenario.

i'm lucky that he was open to listening to me.  i know that is not the norm necessarily.  my sis bugged out of my life over 25 yrs. ago.  no contact since, altho she had kept in contact with my bro, and he eventually broke off contact with her cuz of her narc ways.  he also told me the stuff she'd said about me, most of which were lies.

that whole family dynamic - we're told by adults in our lives, school, church, friends' parents, that moms and dads love their kids.  then we also try to put that together with the reality of how we're being treated by those moms and dads, and we get a skewed reality of what love is.  it's so sinister, so insidious, but as kids we just believe, assimilate the info as best we can, and do what we have to in order to survive.  the problem is, we bring those skewed concepts of love into our adulthood and can't figure out why our relationships don't work, why we continue being abused, and why we feel like it's always our fault that this stuff falls apart.

difficult questions for you, wife2.  difficult realizations.  i hope for your sake that you are able to put those pieces in their proper places and find some peace with them.  i completely agree, this would have been impossible without this family i have come to know and love on this forum.  this is how healing happens - kizzie's posted about it, i've read about it in van der kolk's book - a healing community promotes inner healing.  it's so frickin' true!  big hug to you, my dear.

Today I want to write about an event that isn't good or bad, but it's come to my mind, so I think it has some importance. Well, ok, it's really bad, then it gets really good. So, trigger warning about invalidation, but if that doesn't trigger you, then read on... the ending is worth it.

In 10th grade, I decided I wanted to have some good involvement on my high school resume. I knew it would look good on college applications and my goal was to use college to escape home. So, I decided to run for student council.

Mom was only willing to help a little. Her excuse was that if I did most of the work myself, I'd own the results - good or bad. OK, I bought that. She bought some of my campaign supplies - basically some poster board and ink coloring pens.

My friends got really excited for me. They both, dear young ladies, had no courage to try such a thing. I really don't know what made me try. Getting to college was important, but overcoming my natural nerves would prove to be a challenge. Those friends helped me decide on my campaign theme, draw up my posters and hang them up at the school.

I got up at lunch and tried to make the rounds of tables, talking to everyone. I talk easily to anyone, as long as it's about 'nothings'. I made the rounds, had a lot of fun, got a lot of push-back from the popular crowd. My campaign was modest as I didn't have great financial backing of parents (hah). Still, I started to have a little hope that I would be elected to the student council.

Things were going well during the campaign. Only a few posters were vandalized (I expected that), and not so bad that I had to pull them down. People I didn't even know well were shouting encouragements in the hallways between classes.

Then, the day came when we were to give our campaign speeches. I'd never done such a thing, but I'd done some theater in Junior High and Senior High, and Mom and my brother were both pretty good actors, so I crossed my fingers and hoped for the best. Except, Mom lost interest in helping me after buying the campaign supplies. I would tell her excitedly how things were going. I was so excited, I didn't notice the pull-back. Instead of helping me write or practice my speech, she became too involved in her own theater activities to give me any help. I was out of my depths. My speech was written on 5x8 cards, but in pencil. It was long, meandering and didn't make good points.

The speeches would be given in three rounds. First to all the 10th graders, then to all the 11th graders, finally to the Seniors. This seemed like torture, but we had a big High School and could only fit one grade at a time in the auditorium.

I stood on that stage, with 12 fellow 10th graders, and tried. I couldn't hardly read with the glare off my glasses from the stage lights. I lost my place and repeated myself. My nerves could be heard in my quavering voice. The 10th graders began to boo. I hurried, speaking too fast to even be understood. My voice dropped along with my heart. I could see some of the students taking pleasure in my failure - booing all the louder. Finally, it was over. I thought. No, they'd get one more shot at me. The moderator stood all 13 of us up, walked behind us one by one and held their hand over each person's head. Cheers were heard, clapping modestly for others, then LOUD boo's as the hand passed over my head. I was done. I held myself on that stage until the moderator released us.

Then, I ran with all my speed to the dressing room, collapsed in a back corner and cried. My friends were looking for me but couldn't find me. I didn't want to be found. I wanted to disappear, so I cried as quietly as I'd ever known how. The theater instructor knew me and figured out where I'd run. She found me. I wanted her to hold me and sooth me, but she wouldn't. She had a mess of a child on her hands, but she knew me well enough to be tough with me. Not cruel, just a little tough.

Teach: Dry those tears right now, Wife 2. You've got 10 minutes until the next speech.
Me: NO! I'm NOT going back out there. Did you hear them? They BOO'd me! I don't want to get boo'd again!
Teach: You deserved that! Didn't you practice at all?
Me: No, well a little this morning.
Teach: When did you write this speech? Hand it here.
Me: This morning.
Teach: Really, Wife 2? You wrote it in pencil? OMG, child. Get up. (I was on the floor in a heap).
Me: I'm not going back out there, Teach. I won't.
Teach: Yes, you will, only this time, write the speech in ink. Here's a pen. Get busy. You only have about 5 minutes left.

She watched to be sure I did as she said. Then, she helped me clean up my face and get my hair back as I'd done it that morning. Then, she kind of push-pulled me to the stage. I could see the 11th graders filing in and sitting down. I was literally terrified. My hands, knees and every part that could was shaking. The other candidates filtered back on stage and Teach pushed me out to join them. I went to my seat and basically collapsed in it.

While sitting there, one of my 11th grade friends caught my eye. Her face was shining and she was smiling really big. She gave me a thumbs up and mock applause. That gave me just enough courage to not run off stage. Maybe they hadn't heard what a mess I'd made of myself earlier.

I waited my turn. I listened to what the other campaigners were saying. I flipped my speech to just the five speaking points I wanted to make - what I'd campaigned on. I got up and started my speech with a joke of how I'd blown the first speech. Then, I started with my first point and how my view differed from my competition. Then, why my view was better for all the students. Next point, then next, and so on until my speech was given. I used my voice to try to build excitement. I gestured appropriately, I made eye contact - mostly with my friend, but with others as well. I received applause and a couple of whistles and cheers. My smile nearly wrapped around my head it was so huge.

Now, for the torture - the hand over head results. I got cheers again! Not as many as others, but enough to encourage me.

When we were released from stage, I ran to Teach. I gave her a big hug (too bad if she didn't want it - I HAD to hug her). I thanked her for helping me and not letting me run away. She laughed and said that THIS was what she knew I could do. She couldn't let me end this in tears.

Now, I had another 10 minutes to pace until the Seniors showed up. I was excited. I practiced how to say certain phrases to make them sound exciting. There they were! I was ready.

I had friends in that crowd as well, so I searched the audience for them. We locked eyes and I gave her a thumbs up. I knew they'd had time to hear how I'd messed up. She gave me a thumbs up back and we smiled. When it was my turn at the podium, I walked up with confidence.

Again, I didn't disparage anyone else's view, but did make comparisons with how my view would be better for the students. I spoke confidently, I smiled, I made eye contact.

To this day, I couldn't tell you what I said during either of the three speeches. I just know that I felt on fire that last time.

The Seniors applauded, whistled and a few even stood up! I checked, some were my friends, but others were standing up, too!

During the hand-over-head review of candidates, I got huge applause and even more students giving me a standing ovation!

I will never know if Teach asked them to do that for me or if they really did it on their own. I don't really want to know. What I do know is that she refused to let me give up on myself. She did more for me in those 10 minutes in the ladies dressing room than my own mother had done throughout the whole campaign. It is because of Teach that I have a happy ending to this story.

While it's true that I did not make student council, I still count that as a victory.

The students were to vote for all 8 of the council members out of the pool of 13. I received over 400 votes, which is WAY more votes than people I knew. I cheered when I saw the results. My friends and some of my enemies were surprised about that. I just laughed and said, if I could blow it THAT bad with my peers and STILL get 400 votes, I don't think I did that bad.

While it's true that I didn't try again to run for any kind of office, I hold that memory with fondness. Especially for the teacher who reached out and helped. It's how I sometimes remember that what I want isn't always what is best for me. I wanted a hug and to have a good, long cry. What I needed was to go out there again and prove I wasn't a loser. I was a competitor who didn't win. For me, that is the part that matters.

I know my mother was relieved when I didn't win. She didn't understand why I was smiling even though I wasn't chosen. She wasn't there, she wasn't involved, she couldn't understand what the whole experience meant to me.

My sister (heart-mother) was so proud of me when she heard about it. She did give me a mini lecture about planning for big things, which I took with good graces, because she was right. Then, she shared my joy at receiving whistles and a standing ovation.

I really do think this was the point at which I stopped expecting from my mother. I think this is when I realized that it didn't matter how important it was to me. If she chose not to vest in it, she couldn't be excited, sad, happy, anything FOR me. If she vested, she still could, but I couldn't MAKE her want to be a part of anything in my life. This was near the end of 10th grade, I was 15 years old. She's missed out on a lot since then. And that's a shame.

Hi Wife2,
I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed reading your experience of the speeches, and I think you did so well to continue and that you came out so positively - it was really heartening to read that.   :)
Hope  :)

I've been told that I have a gift of gab. For that I'm glad. What's funny to me when I read that story is that it sounds like a TV movie of the week. Teen overcomes adversities and succeeds. In the movie version, she'd probably get elected, though LOL. But, that is how it happened.

For the rest of my time at that High School, that teacher was always my favorite. She had good company in my heart, though. I had quite a few very good teachers in High School. She was the one who was there on the day of my 'greatest tragedy' on campus and she helped make my 'greatest victory' on campus possible.

I'm glad you enjoyed reading about this. I think it's on my mind as a reminder to me to reach out. Who knows how much impact listening, caring, doing a little thing for someone else can make the entire difference in a person's life. For the rest of their life.

I don't know if that teacher still remembers me. That awkward, odd looking young lady she helped decades ago. But, I will always remember her and the kindness that felt like meanness that she offered me.

Wow - nostalgia is a nice change from flashbacks, EF's, dissociation and the rest of what so many of us deal with. Yes, I prefer nostalgia.

big smile on my face right now.  great story, wife2.  i loved the 'movie of the week' theme as well.  beautifully done.  that kind of nostalgia is heartwarming and self-confirming.  glad you've got some of those.  yay, you!

I just don't know how to move forward with my marriage.

Hubby and I have a complicated relationship. Basically, for him, sex is a thing couples do. The frequency is the measure of the relationship's health. If I complain about feeling untouched, unloved and unappreciated, he buys toys over the internet. Most of the toys are centered around his preferences (makes sense, these things would appeal to him).

Then, he feels completely let down if I don't LOVE the toys. If I don't want to use the toys, my feelings of being ignored intimately are MY fault. He tried. He bought the toys. I have come to hate all of the toys. Because he believes they can replace intimacy and tenderness. They can't.

I have also come to hate sex with him. I mean hate it. I've given him his satisfaction anyway but it's rarely now. He's complaining. I'm tired of hearing it.

I've been telling him for years that lack of intimacy or tenderness from him is killing my sex drive. Well, the * thing is dead now. I have no libido. The only thing he noticed was that he's not getting sex as often as he thinks he should. And he's grumpy.

I wanted to slap him last night when he began complaining. I had to tell him again that his complete lack of intimacy has killed my libido. He turned away from me and huffed. He has told me in the past that it must be a medical problem. I saw a doctor. Nope, nothing wrong physically besides IBS, Sleep apnea, Thyroid condition and menopause. According to my non-physician husband, I should then be good to go. He still doesn't see that the decade of no gentle, loving touch has killed my desire. Worse, his expectations and demands have begun making me feel triggered, resentful, like I should never have married the man.

Because this is an ongoing problem that cycles for him between being understanding and demanding. His idea of tenderness is to hug me from behind, then grope me. Intimacy is to suggest going to have sex while our son is playing a video game. I'm the problem when these two things don't inspire me to passion.

As far as I am aware, he won't cheat on my physically. Mentally and emotionally, he's as much as said that he has. Repeatedly. And wondered why that knowledge didn't kick-start our sex life.

It is this aspect of our life that leads me to believe he is emotionally about 17. He has all the right working parts, knows how to use them, but gets completely distracted by the internal dialogue of 'I deserve sex, we're married' and completely misses the entire relationship building aspect of marriage.

I want to leave him, but I also don't want to leave him. That's absolutely stupid, I know.

Staying with him is unhealthy for me. He's emotionally abusive and withholding. He's financially abusive and withholding. We don't share a vision for our life, nor do we have common values anymore (I used to think we did, but time is proving me wrong).

Leaving him breaks my heart. For all that he does against me, so much doesn't seem deliberate. Also, he does other things that are his best effort at relationship (cook often, clean laundry, sometimes clean house - or parts of it, maintain yard, pay bills). I find myself loving him and not willing to give up over these issues. I realize I'm no picnic to live with and wonder if I'd really be better off without him.

Then, I read my reasons for staying and wonder how co-dependent I am.   :stars:   ??? 

All this typing and I still don't know how to handle being alone with my husband tonight. I know he will do NOTHING truly romantic or intimate or validating of me as a woman or sexual being. Still, because too many days have passed since his last release, he will try to bring pressure on me to perform. Anything short of complete compliance and I am jilting him. Demanding intimacy kind of negates the intimacy demanded. He can apply that last sentence to my wants/needs, but not to his own.

How do I explain this to him where he can finally understand?  I've tried so many different analogies. The well is empty, you can't draw more water from an empty well. The bank account is overdrawn. You haven't made intimacy deposits in years, certainly not enough to make up for the overdrafts. Stop trying to write checks. Toys are not the same as intimacy. They can't hold me, tell me I'm beautiful and desirable. They just buzz and leave me cold. Don't buy any more toys, they won't fix this problem. I do not lack a libido so much as I lack intimacy or relationship with my partner.

Are any of those too vague? I've told him all this in the past, distant and recent. I don't know how else to get through to him that if he equates this ring with regular sex, I'm going to hand him the ring back. because he broke his vows to honor and cherish me. It is neither honoring nor cherishing to have my husband look at me about half an hour before bed time and ask, 'So, are we doing anything tonight or not.' Well, my charming, delightful, intimate partner, when asked like that, my answer can only be - * NO.

I'm so sad about the whole thing now.

Wife#2, first of all lots of hugs  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Second, I think all of your feelings are very justifiable. I have not been married so I do not want to comment as if I have been. However you need to remember to do what is best for you. If that is leaving him than you must do that, no matter how hard.

I would recommend, if you really want to get him to see things and work on repairing what is no longer there, seeing if he would read a book with you. it is titled "The Five Love Languages". It actually did wonders for my parents, and I also read it which has given me a better understanding of my relationships since. If he and you could both read it and discuss what different languages you need for love it might help. His is obviously very physical but it sounds like you need more of the affirmation and acts of kindness kind of love. I think reading about these in a more direct language from someone else might help.

If he is willing to try, I think that will show a level of caring and love in itself. It might help you feel a little more validated as well. Know that your feelings are very important, and you should not have to perform when you don't want to and if it is triggering for you.

What you have told him is very stark and not too vague but I think read that book, and give him more specific examples of things that you would enjoy. ie holding hands when you are doing certain things, hug me this way without groping me for a change etc. Be very specific with what you need right now. It is extremely difficult to do that as a survivor but it can help our loved ones. If he gets solid examples that he can follow it will help him. I find it helps most people, and it can become habit if he works at it and really wants to help you and your relationship.

Sorry that was long. I hope it was helpful. Hugs again to you  :hug: :hug:

Wife#2, I think he's immature, like you mentioned. Sex is not the same as intimacy.
Maybe you can try this and bring it as a game: you two may only massage or scratch each others back, no more. So you have your intimacy and don't do things against your will.

Just trying to be creative  :Idunno:

Lingurine

This makes me so sad for you. Here's a big ol' :bighug: for you!

We have been indoctrinated in the ways of self-denial. So much so, that in many cases we have forgotten what we truly want. And our needs are another thing - it was never okay for us to have needs, much less express them. Add to this lovely mix our being taught to always take care of those around us first, and you get a very unhappy person!

Take the focus off of him. Put the focus on you. No more pleading and cajoling.  He gets what he wants (within reason) when you start getting some non-sexual attention.

I've been where you is, and it ain't no picnic. I am standing beside you, encouraging you! You get a lot from imagery, so here -

I'm taking you by the shoulders, and looking you directly in the eyes. My face is calm, my tone is gentle, my words are strong. I will not be moved. Say it. "I will not be moved." Then I hug you, enfolding you in my arms. You can feel the genuine concern I have for you. Then, you nod - and put your war paint on!  :D

Believe you're worthy of ______. (You get to fill in the blank.  :) )

o wife2, my dear sister of the heart, you know i ache for you,  i think you also know how i think about this situation - we've been down this road before.  sit on the porch with me for a minute, and we'll talk this through from every angle you've come at this. 

you know what i've done this past month.  you know why.  so much of it is the same.  there were certainly lots of physical gestures - chores, errands, that kind of thing.  our sex life went down the toilet many years ago because he refused to talk to docs about how his hip replacement surgery and sex would work. 

all in all, he's shown over and over that he's too scared to do what was needed to help the relationship grow.  too many areas shriveled up and were lost because of it.  you are questioning your relationship again.  this time you sound a bit stronger.  your tine will cone.  you'll do what you need to do.  whether it's to stay or to go, you'll know what's right for you, and you'll take the action needed.

this stuff is heartbreaking, for sure.  i know my hub is suffering in ways that i'm not.  he believed i'd never leave, so stayed in his safe little cocoon of denial until it exploded.  there was no turning back for me then.  our relationship had stopped moving forward, and had, in fact, moved backward.  i didn't want to live my life like that.

but, that's me.  it may be different for you.  i have faith that you'll make the correct decision for you - you always have, you always will.  you are so wonderful, and you deserve someone wonderful beside you.  it's up to the two of you to come up with ways to fix this, not just you looking at it from every angle possible.  one person cannot fix a coupleship.

i'll sit on the porch with you whenever you want.  it's a good, solid, strong porch with a beautiful view of the future.  you deserve that porch and everything like it.  everything that benefits your life and your healing/recovery.   love and hugs always, dear wife2.

Oh, everyone, how I thank you all!

I can't say it, Three Roses. I want to. I am trying, but I still can't say it. But, I did cry with feeling your love and kindness!

San, sister, San. You are braver than I am. I still keep finding excuses to stay. They echo hollow in my ears, yet I still say them. So, yes, I'll join you on the porch, feel the breeze calm my spirit, soak in the view of the future and hope.

We, hubby and I, had a long talk on Sunday. The end result is that he feels rejected and unloved (his own cPTSD issues flaring as well). I feel unloved as a person and without intimacy, I am dead. Emotionally dead to him. He finally got that. He tried. He asked if I could allow him this effort that night.

I was angry, he picked up on that. He fails to see that I've been saying the same thing since our son was born. Before that, even. Still, to see if I was right, that he is completely incapable of intimacy of any kind, I allowed him this last effort. He doesn't realize it yet, but I can't keep going on like this.

Failing to understand a thing of what I said, he stayed on his side of the living room for the rest of the evening. Then, he showed lots of affectionate attention to the two puppies we are (supposedly, I don't think that's a good idea right now) keeping. Then, off to bed. Where he tried all he knows how to do. Turn off the lights, touch for five minutes, then straight to what he thinks is my 'on switch'. That didn't work and he was almost as disappointed at that 'power failure' as I was that this was his best effort to she me that it is ME, the human being known as (here Wife#2), that he wants to be with - not just a female body that prevents him from having to self-service. That wears his ring.

I do speak in analogies a lot. I do that because he seems to not get any actual discussion of my emotions. If I can turn my emotional state into some solid, definable thing, he starts to get it. I've just thought of another that me may get. However, I think it'll be to explain why I can't go on anymore.

He keeps plugging the lamp into the wall outlet and getting mad that no light comes on. He's forgotten that the house needs to be maintained and that the wire TO that outlet has been flickering for years. It doesn't even matter whether it was age, mice or a careless wall repair that damaged the wire. Now, it no longer supplies power to the outlet. Getting mad at the outlet or the house won't fix the problem. Replacing the bulb or the lamp isn't going to have ANY effect on the outlet's functioning.  Hiring an electrician may fix the problem temporarily, but it won't last for long if he doesn't get busy maintaining the house the way the HOUSE needs to be maintained, not how HE wants to do it. The broken outlet is proof that his way isn't working.

This is very accurate, both in the way he DOES NOT maintain our relationship or our house. His way is not working for either and he 's very frustrated that his efforts, in his mind major sacrifices of effort, isn't producing the desired results.

Three Roses, I'm going to try to speak those words, at least in my head. I still choke when I try to say them - even just in my head. Wow, I really AM co-dependent in a HUGE way. Still, I'm not giving up. *I will not be moved*. Wow. Hard to type even. *I will not be moved*. I am worthy of genuine love that can meet me at least half-way. *I will not be moved*. It's going to take time for me to say this out loud.

San, remind me how much better life can be out of an unhealthy relationship. Remind me how sleep can actually come when you're not constantly worried about how someone else is feeling, thinking, responding. Let's enjoy another round - this time, I think I need it to be rum & soda. It may just do me good to imbibe a little alcohol for the first time in nearly a decade, allow my shoulders to relax, my lungs to deeply and calmly breathe and to accept that I can't fix this alone.

An odd note that I'm not sure what to think about it.

Monday afternoon, my husband told me that I woke him up by the deep, loud, belly laughing I was doing. He went to ask me what was so funny, but noticed I was deeply asleep. He said he wished he could have known what makes me laugh so deeply.

On one hand, so do I. I don't remember my dreams, so I have no idea what made me laugh so much. It had been a long, stressful day on Sunday. Hubby and I had our big conversation on Sunday also.

On another hand, I worry because I already know I talk in my sleep. It has bothered me for a long time that my brain, while processing each day's events, will spill my guts to my awakened husband in ways I don't want to do while awake. Hubby doesn't sleep well, so is awake often in the night. I sleep very deeply. I don't often hear him get up or get back into bed.

I'm reaching a place where I don't want him to know certain things because I believe he'd abuse that knowledge. It worries me that I may divulge it to him anyway. And, with there being such a pitiful progress on the whole 'intimacy for me, sex for him' front, I really am feeling more private than ever. I am almost to that place where I'm ready to ask him to sleep in another room. He knows that means I'm on the verge of divorce. It's so confusing.

I just feel so vulnerable that he may overhear my brain processing my days and my emotions and he can hear it, but I can't hear him or control what I reveal. It makes me wish I could sew my mouth up at night and un-sew it each morning. I don't know. Anyway, it's hard for me to hear that I laughed so deeply that it awoke him, but I have no idea about what, or if I said anything that he overheard and isn't telling me.

Struggle.

Wife#2, do you know if what you talk about in your sleep makes actual sense? I used to talk and apparently I did make complete sentences usually but they were about my dreams and weren't what I think in my day-to-day life.

I can really understand about feeling worried about what you might inadvertently say out loud though.  :hug:

Quote from: Wife#2 on May 30, 2017, 02:37:39 PM
I still keep finding excuses to stay. They echo hollow in my ears, yet I still say them.

At the end of my rope last night, I told H I was moving out of MIL's home and he wouldn't be coming with me. We are both subdued this morning. Thing is, I don't think I have the energy or the wherewithal to follow through.

QuoteSan, remind me how much better life can be out of an unhealthy relationship.

Last night we watched Anthony Robbins I Am Not Your Guru. Lots of pertinent stuff for me. There was a woman talking about her 'stuff' and out of nowhere Tony asked whether there was a man in her life. A few more questions and he'd established she didn't see him as the person she wanted to be with for eternity, but was afraid of hurting him. Tony got her to call him right then and there in a packed auditorium, to tell him it was over.

That's probably what sparked my conversation with H. I know this situation is so wrong for me in so many ways.

Candid, I can't say a word as I completely understand the position you're in. The one good thing is that I (not we, just I) own my home. That's also a bad thing. He knows that in our county, I have no power or authority to kick my husband out of the shared home without a violation of law. His way to stay is to simply not leave. He does not abuse me in the way the courts recognize, nor is he a drunk or drug addict. Therefore, I can't get legal help to remove him from the property.

One day, maybe, the courts will see that abuse comes in many more forms than bruises and cuts. Until then, I am stuck with a husband I don't want in a marriage I want over. The thing that makes me sad about that Anthony Robbins video (and I've seen that segment where he has her call her husband) is that she may have had the courage to stand up during the rally, but did she carry through? Was her husband a PD person and refuse to leave?

I've seen a lawyer. I've put myself in a financial position to afford to retain a lawyer. I've done the budget and seen that I won't make it unless he agrees to do his part ~ child support. If he does his part, I'll make it and so should he. I know that my son and I would be better off after a divorce. I think my husband gets it as well. Still, he clings and begs and promises and tries to convince me that THIS time it'll work. Still, I remember the previous times of clinging, begging and promising that only lasted until he got tired of it and got angry that I had made demands on him (boundaries and reasonable expectations) and wanted to make demands of his own. So, I don't believe the promises and I know the changes won't happen.

And, I know he will refuse to go as he has no place TO go. His adult daughter has her own family and she and her husband agree that putting her father into that home would be a disaster for everyone, possibly destroying the marriage. His adult son still lives with us. His siblings live states away and don't talk, won't help him. His friends like him, but not to the point of giving him a sofa to surf.

Hubby has no savings. He has debt for his hobby and for our household. The hobby debt is bigger than the household debt. He's even spent into next month on his hobby knowing we have vet bills to pay and our son's birthday next week. It's disgusting and never-ending and I don't know how much of this I talk about in my sleep.

*** Blueberry - I do speak in complete sentences and answer questions with usually understandable answers. I have since I was a child. My sister recorded me one night - to prove this to me. It pisses me off in one way - he can't hear me while I'm awake - always asking me to repeat myself. But, in my sleep when I can't control what I say, he hears just fine. I'm so over it. ***

Back to what Three Roses encouraged me to speak: I will not be moved. This is what I expect from you, from our marriage, from our co-parenting of our son. I will not be moved. Man, I don't even believe myself when I type that. It is time to work some more on me.

"The sun isn't bright just because I say it is. It just is. It was bright before I even knew the word for bright. I didn't decide what it is, I acknowledged what it is.

"You aren't worth something just because I say you are. You just are. You were worth something before I even said anything. I didn't decide that you are, I acknowledged that you are.

"This is what I mean when I say, 'You are worth it.'"

(author unknown)

Strange day, indeed.

I've been holding up a mirror to my emotional self and am not real pleased with what I see there. I don't think it's an over-active inner critic, either. And, it isn't as if I hate myself. Not at all.

It's that I feel myself wanting to run away from everything, including my wonderful son. I have a very strong urge to just bolt. I know that would serve nothing, so I want to understand why this is so strong. And I think it has to do with that mirror.

So often, I can lose sight of the fact that my husband is even more damaged than I am, in my opinion. I have had the benefit of more therapy and better therapy. Still, I'm struggling to remember that he, my Mom and my Dad are just human beings. They can only be who they are. I can only be who I am. Except, I can change me. I can improve me. It will be work, but it has to start at the reality that I can ONLY change or improve me. Nobody else is responsible, nobody else deserves to take on the task of 'fixing' me.

I've been visiting another site that is very helpful. They have boards for venting but most of the boards are for self-examination and personal growth, within the context of living with a BPD person in your life.

It's so easy to just sit and tell all the funny, stupid, hurtful or pitiful stories that arise out of life with a BPD. God knows there is an everlasting supply. It's also so easy to just sit back and allow the validation received here and other places to convince me that all our problems are because of others (Mom was distant, Dad even more distant, hubby is unavailable emotionally).

But, that's not changing anything, so the results will just remain the same. And I am so sick and tired of the same. For me, for my husband, for my son. I've expected him to make lots of changes (husband). I've wanted better treatment, but I haven't been able to define or model that better treatment. For so many with CPTSD or any flavor of PD, one immutable fact remains: We were never taught how to have a healthy relationship. Least of all with ourselves.

Where does that leave me and my relationships? Stumped. Frustrated. Wanting it spoon-fed to me so I don't have to keep working so hard. I want a break! I want someone to waive a magic wand and all this to be better. As I've begun saying (especially to DS9), 'Wanting ain't getting.' A healthier mind-set and a healthier life in general is worth having. That means doing the work. That means keeping doing the work until I see the results. That means getting busy with all this brewing around in my head.

I'm scared, too! Sure, afraid of failure, but also afraid of success! What will that look like, health? Will I be able to maintain it, if I ever even achieve it? Will success cost me? My husband, my stepchildren, my FOO, my son? How many people will reject me during the process? How many because I was trying but screwed up? How many because I succeeded?

Will I really like who I become? How do I avoid going too far, perhaps sliding into Narc territory? What damage could that do to my son?

So, I keep coming up with excuses to fail to start. With all those excuses lining up my mind, it's hard to see past them to the place where this growth could work, could be worth it, could end up strengthening my marriage, or making it clear why it has to end. It could give my son a good example of what it means to overcome one's raising.  And of how to forgive less-than-perfect parents, acknowledging that I am certainly far from perfect myself. And, not in a way that attempts to elicit praise from him, but just as a fact.

Then, I think, how can I NOT make these changes? For myself, for my son? In that order. To become a genuine person, trustworthy and loveable. To show DS9 that I am worth it. And, as my son, HE is worth it. And that I meant my apologies when I failed him - so that I don't repeat those same mistakes over and over, eroding his trust in me or my sincerity.

Typing that took so much out of me that I had to back away from the keyboard, literally. I had to breathe to calm myself down.

Still, please understand. I'm not bashing myself. I'm not disregulated or in an EF. I'm listening to many people talk to me, out of love, kindness, annoyance, whatever, but the theme tends to remain the same.

That's fine, Wife#2, but what are you going to do about it? How can you know and identify and understand the problem so well, yet do nothing to fix it?

As I explained to my son recently, I don't even know how it came up. Anyway, I told him that I'd been fired several times in a few years. Then, I said, 'After the first firing, I could blame the employer. After the second firing, I could still blame circumstances. After the third firing, it was time to look at myself an admit maybe I was the problem all along.'

It wasn't until that point that I did begin looking at myself. I did have a mouth on me. My 'justice-meter' was very strong and I wasn't afraid to spout my opinions, even when in direct conflict with that employer. Employers don't have to respect that. They can fire you and make their headache go away. I was the headache too many times. Until I learned that I was the problem, identified HOW I was the problem and identified steps I could take to fix myself being the problem, I couldn't keep employed at a job for long.

How I got to that place wasn't as important to my overall health and movement forward in my life as what I was going to do, given that I was there.

I made some choices. I had very good friends who would allow me to vent all the injustices I felt had happened, even if they hadn't happened to me. They helped me 'get out the poison' so that I could continue to present the 'happy Wife#2' to the bosses. Suddenly, and I mean suddenly, bosses began to respond to me better. I kept jobs, or got good references when different reasons caused a job to end.

My unwillingness to upset the boss is what led to me being sexually harassed at one point. I hadn't, maybe still haven't, learned where the healthy line is on that. I do still placate bosses, then gripe about what I know to be unfair elsewhere.

This wall of words is to say that, just like the job situation earlier in my life, I must not put down the mirror. I must look honestly at myself. I must decide what is real about me and what is a pretense. Some pretense may be ok, but I can't keep putting that on at home and expect a happy home life. They can't interact with me the way I need if they have no idea WHAT that looks like! No matter HOW much they love me. And, they can't trust my love of them if I can't know myself well enough to be consistent with them.

I'm being my own worst enemy again. I've identified several of the problems. I've even begun identifying what I can do about them. Now, it's time to decide if I really do WANT to be healthier or if I am content to stay in this dysfunctional situation. And, because I see the truth and don't like the truth, I want to run away. I want someone else to build the house and just let me live in it. And, when I read about me wanting to run away, I think how like my mother that is. Because, she did. Twice, at least.

This 'adulting' is hard! (Joke about that word, it's an internet thing that my DS9 and I have both adopted as very cute). But, more than I want to be lazy or run away or rail against reality, I want to stay the adult and not allow my child to become emotionally more mature than me before he's even 10. I want to give him the gift of having his own childhood, and the gift of having a parent who cares enough about HIS growth that I will do the painful thing and make the changes that will benefit myself and everyone around me.

Ouch. My head hurts from all this truth. My shoulders have crawled into my ears and I don't want to deal with this anymore right now. I'll have to, I know that. It's worth it. I know that, too. I just need a breather from dealing with it.

hey sweet sister of my soul,

finally got back here, sorry it took so long.  i am now 6 weeks away from my marriage, home, adopted country.  i lived with my daughter and her two roommates for 2 weeks, the time it took me to find a place of my own.  i'm now living in a house with 4 other people.  it is quiet, respectful, safe (both emotionally and physically.  i say emotionally, because i don't have to share with anyone what i don't want to.  it's a fresh emotional start) and the constant bickering and arguing are gone, along with all the feelings during the actual incidents and those that linger long after.

i am running on my own timetable.  i go to sleep when i want, watch what i want on tv, wake up when i want.  i don't have to fix anyone else's food, wash anyone else's dishes, pick up anyone else's dirty clothes. 

i am geographically closer to my daughter, which has been a real pull for me in the past year or so.  i've had 2 incidents in which i felt i was dying (like my insides were simply crumbling) and it seemed very important to me that i be near her if anything happened to me.  she remains my first priority - my kids have always come ahead of hub or friends since i started learning what was going on in and around me, and had the capability of understanding what all this has meant   

the tension from continual arguments, disagreements, promises that turned out to be nothing but air, apologies that kept being repeated all the next times the same things happened, long talks that held a promise of increased intimacy but revealed nothing but more of the same, the words that were outright lies or had no intention of being acted upon, and the unreliability of most everything he said - all that is gone now.

the downside has been a culture shock for which i was not prepared, a landlady who is a perfectionist that i wasn't ready for, having to share bathrooms with others, and missing him continually taking care of me in every way he could at a moment's notice.  now i have no car, my eyesight is too poor to pass a driver's test so my independence is gone anyway.  i am dependent on my daughter who lives 20 min. away to take me to the grocery store cuz i can't walk that far, or to take me anywhere, for that matter.

i am beginning a new medical regimen in about 10 days, but with docs who i trust have had sufficient medical training - unlike the docs in mex. who become interns in 4 yrs., with a year of interning, period, and i rarely saw the same doc twice, never had a phone # in case i needed to ask about med reactions, etc., and all the specialists i needed to see were 2 1/2 hrs. away by bus.  my next round was to have been in sept., when the temp. is 120 and my system can't tolerate that heat for more than 10 min. at most. 

new paperwork and appts. have had to be dealt with, lots of bureaucratic b.s.  of course, that's the same everywhere, but it was already in place down there.  i'm still unsure of the rules up here, still feeling my way around, on my own for the most part.  do i miss him?  sure.  do i regret my decision?  not for a minute.  whenever i think of what i left behind, it reminds me of why i left and that it was the best thing to do for both my health and recovery, both physically and emotionally.

i went as far as i could go there.  my relationship (and i told my hub this) was no longer moving forward, and, in fact, had moved backward greatly.   to me, i like to put it all on the scales, see if they tip toward the pos. or neg.  as long as they stayed in the pos. zone, i would stay.  but, they moved into the neg. zone and things weren't going to change.  try as hard as i might, he wasn't going to do the work necessary for things to change, and i couldn't do it for him. 

i felt disappointed - i'd expected more from him.   he had his own issues but wasn't willing (read: was too afraid) to look at, explore, and resolve them, no matter how many times we talked about them.  my being ill for the entire time we were married didn't help the situation, either.  i'll take my part in this.  i do know, however, that i did everything i could to change what was going on with me.  that wasn't reciprocated.

for us, sex fell off the bed about 10 yrs. ago, after he had a hip replaced.  he was scared that if we had sex it would pop out and he'd have to have another surgery.  i pleaded with him to talk to someone about it - an orthopedist, a therapist, someone else who'd had the same surgery - but he continually refused.  what was once a very healthy sex life was extinguished by his fear and refusal.  at the time, a couple of friends told me they thought that was abusive of him toward me.  i agreed, was nearly ready to break up with him then.

so, lots of thoughts and feelings running around about my leaving him, wife2, but no regrets.  it's been difficult, it's been different, it's been emotionally blinding at times.  i've reverted to old patterns every so often.  6 weeks into a new single life, it's getting easier.  things are falling into place, getting done.  it's gradual, for sure.  it's taking time.  there's a lot to process. 

in some ways it's more difficult, but in more ways it's much easier.  i'm very glad i did it.  the timing was just right, i got a lot of help that i needed, and that made things fall into place more quickly.  i don't want to live there anymore - it's like that section of my life is over and done.  he and i saved each others' lives, but it was time for me to move on in order to have a chance at truly healing.  i don't know if that's possible even here, but i do know it wasn't possible there anymore.

you'll move on when this chapter of your life is finished, wife2.  the excuses will fade away, and your scales will eventually give you the nudge you may be needing.  you'll do what's right for you and your son, whatever that may be.  only you know what reasons for staying or leaving are best for you.  i support you completely whatever you may decide.  big hug!!!

Quote... I must not put down the mirror. I must look honestly at myself. I must decide what is real about me and what is a pretense. Some pretense may be ok, but I can't keep putting that on at home and expect a happy home life. They can't interact with me the way I need if they have no idea WHAT that looks like! No matter HOW much they love me. And, they can't trust my love of them if I can't know myself well enough to be consistent with them. 

This resonated with me like the peal of a bell. Thank you for an articulate post, food for thought! You're amazing :hug:

Thank you both, very much, for the support.

San, beloved soul-sister, you know by now, I hope, that you are a warrior woman. Wounded and struggling, still a warrior! It is so good to hear that this was the right decision for you. I'm even more happy to know that being geographically close to your daughter was part of your 'soul medicine'.

The 'hangover' from this sadly ended relationship with your soon-to-be ex-husband will eventually fade. The lessons you were to learn from it will appear and, if I have learned who you are at all, be dealt with as you are able. I am here, across the country, by your side in spirit. I will offer all support I am able. To know that you are safe now and have a chance at recovery is a blessing to my soul.

Three Roses, sister as well, that was so hard for me to type. It's part of something I'm working hard with myself - personal accountability. I've struggled with that my whole life. I think, in part, because I was blamed for some things beyond my control. Since those were beyond my control, maybe other things were as well... so I dropped ALL responsibility for myself.

It didn't help that the main person who would call me on it was the Golden Child. It felt like he had SOME nerve, being my biggest bully and trying to be a good big brother from time to time. Just often enough that I really didn't know what to make of it. I didn't trust him or his motives. Was he really trying to be helpful or was he setting me up for some future humiliation? Again?

When I reached adulthood, I began with that mirror of mine. Sometimes, I actually liked who I saw there. Other times, I wondered where I was. Still others, I saw very clearly the things that I needed to work on. Yet, it was so much easier to just put that mirror down and pretend I hadn't seen what was there. I could blame Mom - there was plenty of fodder there, after all. I could blame GC - God knows he didn't try very hard to be a good big brother to me. I could blame Dad and his invalidating ways. Sure, all that is legitimate and real and useable. But, at the end of the day, I had to live with me. Nobody else has to. Everyone else can abandon me. I am the only one who HAS to live with me.

Now, I'm a wife and mother. It's so much more complicated now. I didn't finish the work I began in my 20's. I didn't finish the work I began in my 30's. Once I got married, I focused on what my husband needed to 'fix'. The mirror was packed away.

I found that mirror the other day. I've been holding it up as long as I can stand. That hasn't been long.

As great as this website is, and it has been a life & marriage saver, I believe that I may need to reduce my dependence on this site.

Alchemist's idea to attend OA for a while, check it out, see if it helps conquer one section of the puzzle, is a great idea. As bad as I quake at the thought, I may need to partake. I do better when I hand over some of my independence and become accountable to people outside my family. I've done this type of thing before (seek help and give them rights of accountability), but I was always single then. Now, my excuse is my family. I will bring this up with them, let them know that I believe I need this and I need their support in this. If they resist, I will have to explain to them that I read that as not being willing that I get better. I have to care 51% about me and 49% about what they want. I have to stand my ground. I have to believe I am important enough that this is a worthwhile investment in me.

I am worthy. I am worthy of health. I am worthy of love. I am worthy of peace within my own skin. I am worthy of the work.

Wife#2 these have been such powerful posts to read this morning. I do not have a lot of words  this morning for you, and I wish I had more as you deserve them I resonate so much with what you are saying and I am so proud of you for holding up this mirror.

It is so hard to find that healthy relationship with ourselves sense we were never taught to do so. I am so glad that you are taking this on no matter how hard it will be. Your wisdom and courage truly showing in this Wife#2. Lots of love and comfort. I am standing with you as you need/want it on this journey :hug:

I feel like I need you all to gather around, form a circle and push me back in the center when I try to run away.

The more I feel like running away, the more I think maybe I'm on to something really good and life-affirming. A BIG change. The coveted paradigm shift. Where I know AND believe that I am a whole person, worthy of love, capable of cruelty, talented in some ways, requiring modesty in others. A whole, multifaceted person.

It's there. I can almost sense it getting closer. The desire to run is getting stronger.

God, how I wish it was just me, so that this process wouldn't hurt or scare them. Then, how glad I am, God, that they are there, in my life, giving me a touchstone and a break from the work, giving unconditional love.

Wife#2 I will gladly be part of that circle. If I can help in anyways please let me know. It is scary to feel this way, believe me I understand. I am currently feeling that need to run away, and it is the same reason... That something big and good is coming. However, that comes with lots of change and challenges which are scary to face. I understand why the instinct to run is so strong for you right now. I am right her to remind you very gently that it will all be okay.

We don't have to run anymore, and it is okay to stay and fight this battle to that new life affirming change. Change was so scary for us,  but it can bring such greatness. I am here to walk with you through it, we will get to the other side. Remember to be so kind to yourself and don't get frustrated when this gets hard. It is scary but it will be so great when you make it through all of this. I know you are so strong and courageous. You can make it through this change, and your family will follow with you as you need them too.

I am there holding your hand (if you want), sitting there while you take a small break before heading back into that change. It is okay to take some breaks as long as you keep moving forward after a short breather.

Shoulder to shoulder, we'll make it. I am ever thankful for this website and the people I've met here.

I am God-fearing and working on opening up enough to allow Jesus to really be my Lord. I won't make it through this life without Him. I also won't make it through without people like all of you who I've met on this website. It does take a community to raise a child. We, whose community either wasn't there or were the source of our pain, must be raised again. Communities like this make that possible - with the love and kindness and generosity we show each other, we are the community we each need.

Yes, Elphanigh, I will be grateful to hold your hand and join the circle of affirmation. We need this to move forward. We need each other, holding each other accountable with kindness, knowing it must be done for our healthy growth.

Many words. Today, a little action. I step forward and claim that I am worthy of giving and receiving love. Flaws and all. I speak my truth that I must love myself first, before my gift of love to others can have true meaning. This is followed by my truth that, as badly as I am in need of forgiveness, I will offer forgiveness to those who have wronged me, past and present. I am blessed in that those who offended me, only a few in adulthood had actual malice in their hearts. The rest were just as hurting and lost as I have been.

I trust you who I've met at this website. It is good to be able to actually trust people. Thank you all for your kindness and love. They are sustaining me.

We will make it through shoulder to shoulder you are right. We all have each other here, and community is so very important. I am glad you will join the circle and be kind to yourself. You deserve that kindness in every way possible.

It really sounds like you are making a big stride right now. I am ever in awe of your courage and strength  :hug:

I just had a happy flashback. Myself and five college friends had decided to walk the 2 miles from campus to the mall together. But, we were in a silly mood, so we decided to be silly about it. OK - we'd just been watching some Monty Python, too.

So, we set ourselves boy/girl/boy/girl/boy/girl, arms linked at the elbows, stepping out left in front of the person on the left, then right in front of the person on our right. I was at the end. We were a motley crew, all races, sexual preferences, genders represented in our little group. Linked together, we did our silly walk, got back up as we fell - often, laughed at the people who stared at us, and made a wonderful journey out of a boring 2 mile walk.

This is what community can feel like. Nobody judging each other, just there for each other. Ready to pick up those who fell, encourage those who tried to fall behind, chins up against the critics. We laughed until our cheeks hurt. We were friends. I miss every one of those souls, how they made my life a better place to be.

All the more reason I treasure everyone I've met here. Each of you has a place on my line. Who says we have to follow the boring, conventional path? We can love each other, support each other and be silly or serious or whatever we need to be, as long as we get there - together if that's what our path has in store for us. At least, together during the journey!

Wife#2, that is truly a beautiful memory. It made me smile so much, it made my day. Thank you for sharing such a joyful time. It gives me hope, and is a perfect way to view our community I think. We are all so different, but here just to help one another keep going and be happy. It is a wonderful and rare thing. I am glad I can at all be a part of that with you here.

what a great story!  i think that's called 'play', something we're not always very familiar or comfortable with.  i mean, so much of everything in our lives has been life and death serious, it seems.  to be able to play is a blessing.

one of my favorite games to play was hopscotch.  maybe we could draw a hopscotch pattern in the sand in front of your porch, and sometimes have a game.  the more the merrier.

as far as pushing you into the circle and surrounding you so that you can't run from what you need to face, count me in.  gentle pushes, of course.  i love your mirror analogy as well.  i have mentally done that from time to time during recovery, seeing what i've added, noting what i need, still, to take away. 

i'm getting more and more comfortable with who i am, but i have found during these past 2 months that i've reverted at times when my stress level is highest.  happily, i was able to talk about this with my daughter, and she's offered to point these times out to me when they happen.  i think that's a good thing, so they don't become habitual again just cuz i'm going thru a hard time.

wife2, i know you're with me all the way.  you were with me on my trip out of mexico - i could feel you and the others, and it really helped keep me strong enough to keep moving forward.  we are here for you in the same way because we want only the best for you, however that works for you.  big hug my dear sister!

San and Wife#2 I would love to come play hopscotch with you. I too am really bad at play, and that is what that memory was. Maybe why it made me so happy to read.

I truly hope you can hold onto that. San I am also wishing you all the best on your journey as well. I am here for both of you  :hug:

Yes, we must have hopscotch.  Over there, away from the fire pit and far enough inland that the waves won't always wash it away. When the porch gets crowded, we can tumble down the stairs (ramp also available) to the sand and play hopscotch. There is a patch of sidewalk concrete we can use, too. For chalk drawings. Hopscotch is the favorite of my IRL granddaughter, too! Sometimes, if she didn't get bored before I got home, she could get me to play a round or two.

I call dibs on the purple chalk! And if you don't laugh at my stick people, look again. They're pitiful and that's just the way I like 'em. I call them 2D tragedy - not because I think they're awful, I know that, but because if some of what I've seen passes for art these days, my stick figures should draw six figures! Just saying.... Aw, come on, you know you want to at least SMILE. I am. In real life. That play memory has me still very aware of what I need to change, but one of those things is to introduce more play into DS9's life.

We need drink refills, I'll be right back with them.

Ok, a little stronger for the laughter. A lot stronger for the friendships. And a fun smile I plan to take home with me and not explain to anyone!

I love this so much. You have added a smile, not only to your day, but to mine as well. I will take it home with me to. It will get me through the about 2.5 hours of work I still have.

We will learn and grow. It is so good to see you enjoying this. Nice to "see" you smile.

It's nice to 'see' other grownups who don't frown at the thought of play time and silliness and goofing.

That's what I needed, some intentional goofing! My day is made even better knowing at least one other person has a smile today, and that I had something to do with putting it there. And I didn't have to play appeaser or fawn to get it there. I just wanted to play! With friends!

I love that there are other people that like to play too. Drawing with chalk was particularly appealing to me :)
Maybe I will spend some time coloring tonight, or playing with pastels. Could use some of that in my life

Oh.  So did you make that post? NIce. 

count me in on the smiles for today.  a place for chalk drawings!  yippe ai kai ay!!!  dueling stick figures - that's about my limit as well.  i want blue chalk, cuz i want to put blue in my hair.  one of these days i'll get it right.  have tried several times, but it just didn't take.  instead, i wear pigtails with non-matching bands, different earrings at the same time, plastic flowers in my hair, just for fun.  i don't think there's enough fun in the world, but we're sure adding some here.  lovin' it!!!  more smiling!

Oh, San - my daughter has very dark black hair. To get hers accented blue (for prom), she had to bleach it first, THEN put in the vibrant blue. I had to act a little shocked as the grownup, but my smile gave me away - it looked so cool! I admire her AND you for embracing individuality.

I like being the plain Jane that I am, it's good because it's who I am. Still, I've always been drawn to friends with flairs for the dramatic, willing to make a statement with dress or hair or accessories. My daughter also used to have quite large gages in her ears. Her new career isn't so understanding, so she's had to let them close up, but we have pictures to remember those days when....

Ahhh, seeing your posts, enjoying fun with each other, has made my day a great one.  :bighug: Thank you, everyone!

San and Wife#2, I love colors in peoples hair too. I once put a teal under shadow in my hair, it was the best! My job now is not so wonderful so I had to change it. However I used to dye my roommates hair an ombre into this really bright blue, was super fun. Also did lavender for a time.

San depending on what color your hair is you will want to bleach it. There is a good way to do that without having to pay someone. You can get what is called a color stripper, it will get a lot of tint out of your hair (depending on color). If you want blue, buy the blue hued one. They have blue and purple normally. Then you can dye that section blue more easily. Wash it with cool water, warm water will make it go away so quickly. Also color safe shampoo is your best friend, they sell it anywhere basically.

I have a friend that keeps her whole head of hair blue and it is fabulous. I have always envied that freedom a bit. So definitely go for it. If you need more info on how to do it let me know  :)

Why do I resent when my family need me? I often love doing for them. I enjoy the feeling of connectedness and of purpose. Lately I have begun resenting it a bit.

In part, I think, because there is only so much time and so much of me to go around. I spend time with DS and hubby gets jealous and 'needs' me - for things he really can do himself. I spend time with H and DS interrupts as much as he can with 'needs' that he can fill himself (I'm thirsty - there's the fridge, pick what you want).

Meanwhile, I still have chores to do around the house, puppies to clean up after (because hubby still hasn't got them housetrained), and myself to tend. Yes, myself is still last on that list. And I do believe that is why the resentment. If I'm doing for myself, both males pout. Heck, they pout if they 'need' me and I'm doing one of my chores! But, they don't offer to do the chore for me, they just pout and ask why it's taking so long, when will I be done, because they need <fill in blank>.

I woke up in a sour mood this morning because, as all week, hubby woke me up in the middle of the night to tend to his dog - also not fully housetrained, but goes out about three times a night. His reason? He got her the first time, would I do this one? I reminded him that he is home ALL day, he can sleep in, he can nap, he can take it easy. I work outside the home. I have paperwork to concentrate on and given the market these days, I can't afford to make mistakes. I've told him all this before and asked him to handle his dog himself. Still, every night this week, he's asked ME to get up in the middle of the night and let his dog and sometimes also the puppies outside. It's taking a toll! I'm tired and grumpy and sick of hearing what they want from me.

And, it's father's day weekend. Hubby got me nothing for Mother's Day, but he wants something for Father's Day. Because he's not naming it, I can guess what he's after and he isn't going to get THAT. But, I also hate to assume. But, given conversations lately, he rarely gets that I have needs as well that he's not filling which make his discussions about HIS needs sound as a brass clanging in my ears.

What is most pitiful of all is that I get all resentful and sour and hubby will ask me what it is that I want and I'm afraid to speak up because I feel like once that floodgate gets opened, it won't be shut until I've hurt everyone's feelings. Because part of it would be all three males to get off their lazy backsides and do more around that house.

What follows is going to be a rant. This has nothing to do with healing and everything to do with complaining, so you may want to skip this, dear reader.

What do I want? I want someone else to sometimes:

* Clean the bathroom, including the sinks and toilets.
* Dust, including the curtains and front windows.
* Clean the windows.
* Wipe down the walls.
* Clean under the kitchen counters.
* Clean the kitchen cabinets.
* Throw out their junk that keeps getting piled up in the way.
* Put their junk back in the spaces we've decided together for their junk.
* Let me do the laundry, so it actually comes clean or shut up about 'clean' laundry smelling bad.
* Sweep and mop. - OK hubby does this, but he never washes out the mop, so everything is horribly dingy.
* Change out the tablecloth.
* Clean the stove eye protector basins.
* Let me institute a separate 'trash' can for recycling goods. Use it (I tried before, nobody would use it).
* Allow me to prepare healthier meals. Stop complaining or refusing to eat the healthier meal and eat junk an hour later.
* Allow me to finally begin using coupons - including not fussing about the cost of printer ink because it's money YOU didn't prioritize - hubby.
* Shut up about the brands I do choose. Unless you paid for a specific brand choice.
* Sit with me while I make out the grocery list, tell me what you want on the list. Or, shut up about what I get or don't get.
* Stop making pointed comments late in the evening, when I've finally settled in, about what you wish we had in the house. You had your chance during grocery list time. I'm not going out at 8:30PM to get you a sweet treat or a burger -  you should have eaten more at dinner time. And, if you're really hungry, we have some leftovers. Why don't you eat those, instead?
* If you're really in that much pain, see a doctor. If not, shut up! You are not the only person who has pain! AND, you're teaching our son to complain all the time over any little hurt.
* Build a healthy routine in this family. One that includes at least two, but better if three (and eating just before bed doesn't count) meals, regular baths/showers, brushing of teeth and hair (not just shaving it off when you get annoyed), time for us to come together without drama (hubby - yes, YOU bring the drama then complain about it), then time for us each to do our own things as well. A routine where each person, adult or child, knows what is expected of him/her and does it without making a production of it. (Ok, I'm guilty on this one lately as well - I'm tired, do you hear? Tired!).
* Do the * dishes when I cook! You sure as * expect me to do the dishes when YOU cook, even if the meal is cold though I'm home on time.

Playing with your hobby parts, doing hobby research on the computer and spending too much money on your hobby are NOT being 'busy'. They're being distracted from the REAL priorities in this family. You are the HEAD of this family, act like it! Not as a dictator, you're already good at that, but as an example of manhood, as a leader who teaches and raises up the next generation to lead in their turn. As a spouse who understands give AND take.

Wow, I'm pretty ticked off! I've been trying to step back and not be a control freak, telling them what to do while I'm at work. More and more, I'm coming home to a hubby who's frustrated because neither son will do ANYTHING to help around the house. Also, he's refusing to be the 'only one', which means NOTHING is getting done. Except laundry - which he overloads the machines so the clothes still stink because he puts towels used to clean up doggy pee in with other towels, DS's clothes and also sometimes my work clothes. And because part of him now accepts that the loads are full, we washes them twice. NOT the answer, but you can't tell HIM that. He swears this is how his Mama taught him. I doubt it, though I never met her.

All of the complaining he's been doing lately about not getting enough help around the house, I rarely sit down before 7PM and usually, lately, with one more chore to finish before bed. Then, to find out the dinner he cooked is cold (he cooked at 2:30 knowing I don't get home until 5:15), the clothes still stink out of the machine (and he's placed the basket where I usually sit, so I can't wait to handle it), the floor is covered in badly-cleaned-up pee puddles and poo stains (that I'll have to clean properly so I can walk in the house), and he's complaining about how much he did and how tired he is. But, can he get some later on?

:fallingbricks:  :fallingbricks:  :fallingbricks:   :fallingbricks:

Rant over. Time to get to work.

Wife#2, your rant was much needed. I would help you with all of that if I was there, and have a talking with them both. I think you know that you need to prioritize yourself more, and that is why the resentment. That is good that you recognize it.

I understand you discomfort talking to your H about why you are angry. You should maybe make a small list of things that you want him to do while you are gone for the day. You did have a very long list, rightfully so, but maybe start with just a couple of things. Give him a list during the day. My mom used to to that after she had really bad issues with this. She would leave a few thigns like, clean the dishes or a certain couple of chores. Ask him to start dinner at 4:30 instead of 2. Kind of thing. Simple tasks.

I would just tell him, that it is hard to come home and do everything and still have time to enjoy with them and to relax for yourself. So you would like one or two things done while you are gone for the day. That you will leave a note for him in the morning and would appreciate it if he could get those done so you had time to do (fill in the blank). It may get some resistance but if he cares as he seems to because he does ask why you are frustrated, he will try to help a bit. Starting small is a good way to build a habit for him. It too a long time to get my dad to do those things, and some fighting but he does now do those things and I see an improvement in my mom from it a lot

You are so sweet, really. I just love hearing from you. Sometimes, just seeing that  you've responded helps me calm down and step back.

Notes don't work, because he is vision challenged - which is REALLY hard to believe when you know his hobby. But, he is going blind and has serious trouble seeing. That includes reading my handwriting. He can't, so he says. I've tried typing it really big. He swears he didn't see the note at all. I left it on the coffee pot. He swears it must have been blown to the floor by the ceiling fan. I mean really. These are discussions we've had.

Ok, I'm getting on a complaining rant. I have got to leave and work for a while to burn off some of this anger and frustration. Time to focus on clean, reliable numbers that make sense and are consistent.

Wife#2, I am glad you find some comfort in my responses. I find the same in yours as well. It is always a good moment when I see you have responded.

That is a really difficult thing. Let me think on it, I will try to think of something that might work. Although it sounds like excuses are things he is really great at. I am sorry that he is.

I hope working with numbers will truly help you. I too am using work as an escape today. Working with property tax numbers and east coast accounts can be calming. Hugs to you  :hug:

Does he use a phone/ can he? A voice message would be something he could hear. A little more difficult be he can not misplace that

 :hug:  :hug:

Yes, I do like that numbers don't lie. They may get misinterpreted, but they don't lie.

I actually laughed out loud reading your last suggestion. Not only does he NOT have voicemail on his cell phone, he has no text. His cell phone is so old that every tower update could end his ability to still use it. He hates smart phones, including mine. Even leaving a message on the old fashioned answering machine at the house is no guarantee. That light could blink for three days before he even acknowledges it. Checking that machine is my job.

If he wants to do it, we'll discuss it the night before, in the evening. If he doesn't, Neon signs with arrows won't help him remember. I've called to talk to him about something I need him to handle. When I call him, he's always in the middle of something important (usually hobby related). If he calls me at work, it's vital and I should stop working immediately to address his concerns, etc. Rarely, if I ask him to wait for my return call, I'm very busy, he will agree and actually wait. Other times, he'll just try to blurt out fast whatever he wants to have said since he has me on the phone already.

Wow, just gripe complain, whine and fuss. THIS is when I get mad at myself. So, Wife#2 - this is the situation you are in. You didn't get here because of others, you made choices, decisions along the way, woman. Now that you are here, what are you going to do about it? Because this complaining and whining is getting old - even to my own ears.

Hubby doesn't want to listen unless it benefits him. OK, make sure what is important to you benefits him. THEN, he'll listen! Don't want to do that, because you know for what he'll ask? OK, then, shut up and deal with the fact that your hubby doesn't care what you have to say until it matters to him.

Your son doesn't do any chores around the house because he isn't MADE to do chores around the house. Yes, you're not the only one who fell down on this part of the job. So, what? Make a plan of action to get DS off his PS3 and helping around the house. Implement the plan. And stop complaining until you've got that much done.

Stop sitting and whining. Get proactive, Wife#2. P-R-O-A-C-T-I-V-E. This is YOUR life. Nobody else is going to write the script or check the sets. It's not their job even if they were willing. STOP and get busy with your own life. NOW.

At last, the anger is where it should be - annoyed at myself for complaining but not doing anything about it. What am I going to do? Plan for the moment. because I'm not ready for more just yet. Ugh.  :fallingbricks:

DOn't be too angry at yourself. You are right that you need to make a plan and work on getting DS to help out, but it is not just your responsibility. Your H is being extremely selfish and has a huge part to play. Please, be patient and kind with yourself. You deserve that.

As far as complaining, you have read my journal and know well that you are not the only one that whines. I do as well. It is healthy sometimes to do that as long as we eventually come out of it. Which you are doing. All to say, you can whine and complain here it is your journal in fact. I also am glad to be here to help you through it. You have every right to be angry at your H and DS for not being more responsive to your needs and to not simply just being more responsible. It is truly unfair what  your H is doing, please realize that.

It is good to go into action and make a plan, but it isn't all on you. Take small steps and remember that kindness with yourself goes such a long way.  :hug:

And that's one of the many reasons you are such a wonderful friend!!

Here, you get to pick whatever colors of chalk you want. It rained last night, so the concrete is clean and ready for your creation! Because in our imaginary cyber-created world, it can rain and dry instantly. So nice!

I'm getting the yellow one. I'm going to draw suns because I can scribble hard and it just looks like I'm filling in the centers. Oh, I just had an idea, it is imagery that helps my mood.... Suns on a blue background  on one corner. Black chalk for a background, then white stars ... that's the other corner. 

I'm getting thirsty. Do you want a refill of a drink since I'm already going in?

Yes, nods, this is much better than being angry, sour or complaining.

To make me laugh..... The cliché says, 'Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.'  My twist: 'Just because you're complaining doesn't mean you have no reason.' Yes.

Better now. Thank you, Elphanigh.

That makes me smile so much. I am glad to be a wonderful friend!

Great chalk drawings, I love that idea. I would like to share colors with  you and put some rainbows and colorful flowers to decorate your walkway. Bright colors are always fun. We can even make a place to play hopscotch if we get bored coloring.

Would always be glad to sit on the porch to enjoy something refreshing with you

Good change on the cliche, it works well.

Thank you for the smile, dear friend

wife#2, I can understand your frustration! That was some list of all you'd like help with sometimes. I mean, you're not even asking for continual help with all tasks. It sounds reasonable to me to want more help. I wish you all the best with getting H and DS to help out. At the very least H should be looking after his own possessions. That includes his dog. If it helps you to get a bit of a rant out, then go for it.

I can highly recommend another fun activity, even more fun than chalking the sidewalk: using finger paints, even better: using finger paints with your feet. We even get to share colours and mix them with our feet. It's really good for me to feel these dollops of gloopy paint on my feet. Never got to use finger paints as a child, so making up for it now. Except I haven't done it for a good few years.

Then, yes! I declare that Blueberry is right. We must include finger painting to our activities list. To be used by fingers or toes as the painter desires!

My son & granddaughter would love this. My husband and his adult children, not so much. They are not loving the stuff on feet idea.

I'm somewhere in the middle - ok with stuff on feet, but not for long! I love the idea, though!

Yes, ranting and venting helped get some of the vinegar out of my veins. I'm going to be nice to hubby for father's day. After that, it may be time for some family meetings and requests for help around that house. Hubby may benefit as well, which would be even better.

Good plan Wife#2 and Blueberry. I would be up for anything that is not my work office right now

I hope those family meetings go well, my friend  :hug:

o blueberry, i love love love fingerpaints!  how fun!!!  great idea!

wife2, i've read it all.  what i've come away with is that they are not going to change unless you do.  sorry to have to say that - it sucks, i know.  it always comes down to us having to do the hard work of making the first move.  i've had my share of family meetings.  i hope yours goes better than mine.

i remember getting really sick of picking up clothes after my daughters, washing them, folding them, then finding them all over the room - bed, floor, etc.  what i did, which was a difficult decision at the time, was when each of them turned 13, i gave over responsibility for their clothes to them.  i showed them how to use the washer and dryer, told them that they could now choose how to wear their clothes, and i was done. 

surprisingly, it worked really well.  when it became up to them, it changed.  they decided how they wanted to look in their clothes, and took care of it for themselves.  and i wasn't beating my head against the wall anymore.

it sounds to me like you may need to set some boundaries.  i don't blame you for ranting and raving, nor for whining, and, actually, you can do that for the rest of your life if you want and i'll still love you and be your heart and soul sister.   however, if you want some changes in your household from the rest of the residents, something more concrete, rather than asking over and over, or yelling, or whatever none of which has made a difference, seems to be in order.

to me, things like hints and pouts are manipulations.  maybe you might tell them that those will be ignored for now on.  maybe you'll want to start picking up your own dinner on the way home so that you can eat something nutritious and hot.  you can explain why you're doing that once, then put that plan into action.  maybe you want to do your own, and ds8's laundry yourself, and hub and other son can take care of their own, smelly or whatever.   that way, your clothes/towels and those of your son are just the way you like them, and you don't have to worry about the rest anymore. 

i think there may be more changes you can make if you think about it.  this is all about you and your young son in the end - the other 2 are adults.  a family is a community, and everyone needs to contribute.  but, unfortunately, you're the one who will have to take hold of the reins to make your wagon go in the direction you want.

i don't know if any of this is possible for you and your situation.  i'm just thinking off the top of my head.  you will do what is best for you and your boy as always.  i'll still be standing beside you. 

elphanigh, i agree with you on your assessment of the hub in this scenario.  sad, very sad.  it makes for having to pull more than double the burden. 

 :bighug:  :bighug:  :bighug:

Thank you all!

Talking about problems without solutions is whining. Talking about problems and listening to solutions is community. Thank you all for being such a wonderful community today. Facing problems, implementing solutions and dealing with consequences - Well, that's just another day being a grownup. Right?

I'm not sure if I'm ready to be the grownup, but it's really not like I have a choice. Playtime is over for a while. Time to 'put on my big girl britches' and be the grownup for a while. That'll help me appreciate play time in the future all the more!

Quote from: sanmagic7 on June 16, 2017, 08:18:01 PM
wife2, i've read it all.  what i've come away with is that they are not going to change unless you do.  sorry to have to say that - it sucks, i know.  it always comes down to us having to do the hard work of making the first move.  i've had my share of family meetings.  i hope yours goes better than mine.

Yes, we are the ones who have to make the changes, and in so doing, ease the others we are dealing with in to changes, bit by little bit. I realised that last year after a particular incident with my FOO. First I resented them for expecting me to change "as usual", then I realised that I am going to change e.g. start setting some limits, reacting differently or not reacting at all, but what I'm not doing is changing the way FOO expects (put up and shut up). This realisation has helped me. It's certainly a different situation you're in wife#2, because it's your FOC you're dealing with and on a daily basis, but maybe this idea that you're captain of the ship because nobody else seems to be able to or want to, will help a bit.

nice one, blueberry - captain of the ship.  somebody has to be or the ship sails off course and everyone is lost.  it would be nice to have a teammate to shoulder half that responsibility, but, as you said, blueberry, it seems that no one else wants to or is capable of it in this case.  i wish that were not so, with all my heart.  you deserve a helping hand in the form of a co-captain, wife2.  i hope that happens.  big hug!!!

Wife#2, I just had the urge to stop by and send yo lots of love and hugs :hug: You have been so helpful to all of us, and it sounds like you could use it as well. Also I post sometimes and realize I start to sound like you do when you reply to me so kindly with warmth and safety. Thank you and we are all right her with you. I just felt the need to share and send some warmth and happiness your way.  :hug: :hug: :hug:

Thank you, Elphanigh - I did need those hugs today. Not that it's been a bad day, but it was a rough night.

So, what's been on my mind making it a rough night, you ask? Oh, the state of everything. The good news, I'm starting to recognize that which I cannot change. I'm also glad I have more than one pair of 'big girl undies'. I'm going to need them. Change is underway, ladies.

No family meeting, can't get everyone in one room at one time. Yes, I also love the 'captain of my ship' title. Change that last 'p' to a 't' and it's even more true! So, my concept for moving forward is to get my own <ahem> ship in order and accept the reality that nobody will do anything they don't have to. Including me. Get up off my own backside and just start DOING. When anyone offers help (my guys actually do more often than not), GIVE them something to help with, not just wave them off with my usual, 'I got this'. Apparently I don't if the house is a mess and I'm angry most of the time.

Last night, I cleaned the ceiling fan in my bedroom. That shouldn't be such a major chore, but I've been waiting and hoping hubby would step up. NOPE. So, I handled it. Then, I handled putting away the laundry that hubby had washed. Then the dishes. Then, clean up behind puppies, taking them outside twice last evening. At last, try to catch the news. I managed to NOT laugh when I'm finally sitting and hubby complains to me, 'I'm bored!'.

I'm waiting for the weekend so if he tries to keep me up all night I can cope. At that point, it's meeting with hubby and me. I'm feeling very proactive and I'm tired of waiting for him to see anything. If he wants to, he can. If he doesn't want to, he's blind, didn't I hear that news? Whatever. It's time to point out some things.

Much of my strength you hear in this post comes from the extremely valuable and necessary validation I received while visiting a website online. Nothing to do with any PD or cPTSD or abuse or neglect, specifically. It's a marriage site - Marriage Builders. This site is AWESOME. It helped me see that some of my reactions to hubby are normal and healthy based on how he was treating me. And, to be fair, some of his reactions are normal based on how I treated him.

That being said, the psychologist who runs the site gives real, valuable tools to help a person see the other person's view. Stuff that gives a woman a sense that she's being heard and gives a man the A-> B-> C simplicity that appeals to his sense of logic. I mean, it's hard keeping my LOVE of this website under wraps until the weekend.

I can predict that hubby will hate all the reading and writing. Well, waaa. Does he want our marriage to improve or not? Because if this is just too much work, well, that tells me to ignore his crying when I walk out. With DS at my side.

Besides, I've thought and thought. And, I've looked at the local housing market. If I sell hubby that house, which I really wouldn't mind doing, I could take my half of the proceeds and buy a nice house for DS and me that hasn't been basically destroyed by hubby's 'projects' over the years.

I'm preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

And, your hugs and support, Blueberry, Kizzy, Three Roses, and especially you, Elphanigh and San, they mean the world to me. Chin is up, printer is printing, turning the ship onto the best course for me and my son. I'll return to update you all on the progress when there is progress.

So great to see an update from you dear friend. It does truly radiate strength, I could feel it as I was reading. I am so proud of you for taking all of those steps!

I am right there with you hoping for the best, but knowing no matter what you are strong and valiant! I know you are taking all the steps you need to be healthy and happy. Proud of you, and sending all the hugs and support. Even when you aren't posting here I am right there with you  :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

Hi Wife#2, good to read from you again, it sounds like your ship goes the right course. Keep on sailing girl  :cheer:

Lingurine

It's been a roller coaster. Excellent days, horrible days where I disappointed myself and hurt my husband. I still don't know what's going to go on there.

Anyway, I mostly came on to encourage everyone else! And to let you all know - if you read my journal, that I have set up the healing porch as it's own thread in Creative Expression under 'Other'.

The healing porch has it's own home, now. We can visit it or it will visit us as needed.

I'm currently there, wrapped in a blanket of 'moving past regret'. My puppies are with me, so be careful. I haven't trained them how to not jump up yet - and their nails are sharp! They are HUGE to be so young. They are as cuddly as you could ask for. One has fur that is so soft, it feels fake! Especially just after a bath.

Welcome! Stop by the porch! Add to it as you see fit. You'll probably find several of us there at any given time.

HUGS to all my beautiful, healing friends here. I'll be back some day soon, I sincerely hope.

Wife#2 it is so great to see a post from you again. I know you are doing so well through this adventure of yours. I am proud of you through going through all the ups and downs.

Also thank you for creating a space for the porch. I know alot of us use it even when you are not present here. It has become a safe place for us all I think :hug:

wife2, you're beautiful!!!  i'm proud and honored to be your sister of the soul.  thank you.

Time for an update.

That website that I found which is touted as being able to help just about any marriage heal, even after infidelity, well, I got an unexpected result.

I was really enjoying reading all of the articles, helps, tools, on the site. I was implementing them and seeing good results. It makes me feel normal, because the problems I'm having in my marriage are really normal and common and not related to cPTSD at all.

Then, I reached a point where I wanted to start actually working the Doctor's program to save marriages. But, I didn't know were to start.

I wrote the good Doctor to ask him. His answer surprised me. He recommends divorce! Right off the bat. Separation if that's required, but divorce to be sure. That stunned me, so I wrote back, asking if he could see any other way, using his program. Nope, divorce, the sooner the better.

I got the second answer yesterday. And you know what? I think he's right.

My husband complained again last night that he's not getting what he wants out of our marriage. I reminded him I've been 'President of that club' for over 10 years. And he's complaining about two weeks? Not to mention that every time I bring up how lacking I am in having my needs met, the best he can do is two - three weeks before expecting his needs to start getting met, fully, on his schedule and once he GETS his needs met, he forgets that he's supposed to be meeting mine. Cycle - rinse - repeat.

What's so sad is that hubby has been trying lately - but his attempts have all been for things that meet HIS needs. I've been meeting most every 'outside of bed' need he has - companionship, nurturing, no judgment, doing tasks around the house without being asked. Still, after 13 years of marriage and 9 years of co-parenting, he hasn't figured out that yelling at my son, for whatever reason, deducts 10 good acts every time he does it. And, lately, that's been every day. So, even those things he IS trying, knowing that they're for him more than me but still trying to give him credit for effort, are worthless.

And he doesn't know how to relate to our son except through yelling at the poor kid. Kid shouts because he whacked his own hand on the chair. Hubby yells at kid about making such a fuss. Then, loud enough to hear, 'God, why can't I have ONE meal where he doesn't start this * with me. He's always ruining dinner.' I don't even correct him anymore, because he doesn't hear me. When his son still ate dinner with us, it was HIM that was always causing conflict at dinner, never hubby. Now, I just wait until after dinner, that son and I can barely eat from the upset, and get son in his room alone. There, we have also learned to not discuss the dinner incidents as hubby sees me go and follows to overhear. Now, son and I just hug, give each other support and tell each other how much we love one another. The rest is in our sad eyes as we look at one another.

This is no way to live. It's time to get out for my and my son's sake.

Announcement day is next Friday, when son will be visiting with his big sister and niece. Adult son will be at work. Just me and hubby. And an end to the drama, the criticism, the belittling, the neglect, the expectations. An end. At last.

Because, if a man, a psychologist of 30 years experience healing failed marriages even agrees with my family, my friends and my heart, then maybe, just maybe it's time. The Dr. did say that it's not so surprising that I've 'frozen' between what I see as two bad options - stay in * or divorce and become a single mom. Still, he repeated that 13 years could become 30 real fast, and is this what I want to be dealing with at 70?

Have I mentioned that I'm terrified by all this? Just making sure. I'm headed to the porch.

Wife2, that is so much to deal with. I am sending you all the warmth and love that I can  :hug: You are being courageous for you and for your son. I think you are making the right decision for the both of you, at least it sounds like it. You are so strong, and it shows in every word of your journal. We are here for you as you go through this. Whatever happens you have this place and people  :hug:

wife2, you know how i feel about this, and about you and your son.  next friday we'll be standing, surrounding you with protection, courage, warmth, and love.  we'll also be mirroring for you all the reasons you've listed why this is the best idea for you. 

altho this is a heavy-duty decsion (wash, rinse, repeat for all these years) you absolutely do deserve better treatment than this.  i've heard a phrase 'trying is lying'.  action is what love is all about.  they can try all they want, but that ain't gonna make things better - only doing will.  and, it takes two to do in order that things change.

your husband may not hear you anymore when you stick up for your son, but your son does.  he knows, when he hears you, that you are not letting this behavior go,  because it's wrong.   i think it's important for him to hear that.  afterwards, you can still sit in the other room together, but i'm guessing there will be a little less sadness in his eyes, a little more knowing that his mom is taking care of him, even if there is no resolution at the moment. 

i know you're scared, but i give you so much credit for coming to this decision.   we'll be with you while it's going on, and we'll be here for you afterwards.  i hope you let us be there.  we want to.  we love you and your little boy, and want only the best for you.  warrior spirit to the fore!!!  love and hugs, my dear sister.  in your corner all the way.

Drying happy tears seeing all this compassion. I really don't know that I deserve it, but it sure is nice to see and to know you all very much mean it.

:bighug: :bighug:

Thank you all.

I have to try to remember that I'm at work, still. True, most of my coworkers have taken a half-day or came in early to leave early, but I still have a job to do here. I don't know that I'd make it through this day and next week without all of your support. All I can think to say is THANK YOU and I love you all, too!

Wife2, you deserve every bit of compassion. I can promise you that. I am so proud of you for doing everything that you need to. I am certain you will get through this, and we are all here to help you.
:bighug:

I chickened out. I'm still with hubby. He's still being who he is.

Son is beginning to try to speak back - that ended badly. It happened when I was out of the house for less than an hour. Hubby asked if he went to far. I told him flat out - you are the grown-up and you're yelling at him for getting overworked when angry and what do you do? Get overworked when angry at your SON! Yes, you went too far.

I still feel like I'm betraying my son by staying, but would also be betraying him by leaving (because sometimes even a cruddy Dad is better than no Dad at all). And I type that and I know how ridiculous it sounds, because it's not true. But my little me is shouting - Oh, Yeah? I lost my Dad to his second family when I was 12, I know better than anyone else. Dad wasn't great, but him totally gone was worse. And I freeze. And I'm stuck. And I'm still married.

And hubby doesn't even realize the depth of my pain because he won't listen. His is always worse and complaining about my pain is whining and he can't stand a 'victim mentality.' And I want to throw things and walk out. And, walking down the hall, I hear our son spontaneously say to his father that he loves him. And I freeze. And I'm stuck. And I'm still married.

That marriage-saving website helps, but only so far. And I'm up, and I'm down. And I hide in TV. And I hide in computer games. And I hide in my son's room. and I still can't cry. And here comes hubby again, making pronouncements that sound an awful lot like demands, though he denies when I point that out. And work is a mess and I'm stressed out as I can be, but he's tired of hearing about it (though he can repeat the same story of his childhood antics 15 times and I'm supposed to be rapt and laugh at all the right places).

And I'm sleeping, yet I'm just so very, very tired. Bone tired. Soul tired. And it shows. Still, I have no idea how to fix even the first little bit of it.

Wow. I did have a lot to say

I'm so glad to hear from you!  :wave: :wave:

It just occurred to me, while reading another's posts, that my mother went through seasons where I was the center of her world and others where I was a satellite that better reflect positive light back to her. And I think I know why the seasons changed.

In the first town after the parental divorce, Mom had a dear 'mother-figure' friend. All of us loved this woman, she was good to all of us. Especially Mom. Mom had her, she didn't need me - I was the moon.

In the next town, she had several very good friends. But, she had no surrogate mother. I was an asteroid. Maybe I still reminded Mom of the marriage too much. I was the last child at home by then. She was very bitter.

In the next town, thee was a very special 'mother-figure' friend again. Once again, we children loved this woman as much as Mom did. This one embraced her role as surrogate grandmother to us. And her role as surrogate mother to Mom.

During the times when Mom had a surrogate mother-figure best friend, I was free to do as I wanted and live as I chose. When they died or moved away, suddenly I was needed. And badly. And constantly. I became a crutch.

When I rejected this role after getting married, a woman at Mom's church has taken my role, but with a twist. Mom is now the surrogate mother and this woman is her surrogate obedient daughter. This woman needs Mom. The relationship favors the woman, but only so long as she is subservient to Mom. Mom will do just about anything for this woman, more than she would do for me. But, this woman sees the role she must play and plays it because she needs Mom's generosity.

I am told often about what a good woman this is, how loving and devoted (slap and slap). But, I won't cower down and be her servant again, so this is the current state of affairs. Sad. So sad.  I love her, but I refuse to be made to feel that I must be her servant to earn her love back.

Hey wife#2, I am glad to see you back on here. That was my first impulse when I saw your name.

But I'm sorry to read how badly you're feeling. Me too, I feel as if I'm not accomplishing anything, by playing card games with myself (instead of your TV). Maybe we should all have a  :grouphug: right now because that can help relieve pain and soul-tiredness and all that, even if just for the time of the hug.

Some of my Little Blueberries think that it's great  :cheer: that you realise that an adult person shouldn't get mad at a kid for losing the rag and then lose the rag himself at kid. You're absolutely right, wife#2, what does that teach the kid (your son)??? How not to lose the rag? Not likely.

You know, I believe you will get to where you need to be. Maybe for some weird reason the time isn't quite right?? Idk never having been in a relationship, I have never had to leave one. Quandaries I do know though.

The realisations about your M sound ouch to me.  :hug: :hug: :hug: for that too.

Hubby could see that I was tense when I got home. After the mad rush that is my first hour home, we settled in for the evening. And he asked how was my day at work.

Why bother asking if you don't want to know? Why ask like you care when you turn around and lecture me. Even after I ask you to STOP lecturing me. And don't call me a liar if I told you FIRST what I WISH I could have said - hopefully you know me by now well enough to know that I'm not going to mouth of at coworkers or bosses! I mean really. This is ME we're talking about. I was VENTING because the situation stank and you are supposed to be my best friend and know me better than anyone after 13 years of marriage. COME ON. So, when I ended your lecture by telling you VERBATIM what I ACTUALLY said, so you could understand that I did NOT say it rudely (like I wish I was free to do sometimes), why did you CONTINUE to lecture me, then cuss my workplace for me not being Mrs. Happy - Go - Lucky - Ready - For - Anything when I get home every day.  How is that supportive, helpful or friendly? And *I* ruined YOUR night?

Because you are right in one thing. I'm not going to feel very romantic after you've blasted me for how I speak, my workplace for not being perfect, called me a liar for not saying VERBATIM the first time I vented to you - AT YOUR INVITATION.

Am I the only one who tells the story the way they WISH it could have gone before relaying how it actually went?

He tried to make it up to me later, but that stung a lot. I am a storyteller. I enjoy the craft. Sometimes, I even think I'm good at it. After being married 13 years, he hasn't figured out that part of WHY I'm still married after 13 years is that I'm a rules-follower? That I'm a people-pleaser? That I'm overly thoughtful even when it's not to my benefit? I must be a total stranger to him. And that's not all on me. He's usually too busy talking about HIS life stories to hear me when I try to talk about mine. Even when I do try to talk about mine, he is prone to lecturing me about how I should have handled that or this HIS way, which is always superior to anything *I* do.

So close. Ready to get home and get out some luggage. I was close before, but after that disrespectful lecturing and calling me a liar for the way I presented my tale of woe from work, he may have gone to far.

Quote
Am I the only one who tells the story the way they WISH it could have gone before relaying how it actually went? 

No, you are most decidedly not the only one!

:pissed:

Hi Wife2, so good to see you. Although I am sorry to hear about everything that is going one. Just know you will get wherr yiu need to be in you own time. I promise

I wish I had more words,  but all of me is exhausted too, so instead I send a lot of warm caring hugs  :hug:

Ladies - your kindness is as welcome as the smile of my child when I return home in the evenings. Thank you for it, you enrich my life and I am ever grateful.

::: Deep Breathe ::: ::: One more :::

Ok, no whining today. All is not well, but it isn't horrible, either. I'll get through a few more days, then a few more, till suddenly another year has gone by.

I've got 21 days to improve my attitude and allow myself to have a wonderful birthday. It's one of the zero years and I'm having to remind myself to be grateful that I even get to HAVE a birthday this 'big'.

Dang, the whiney monster wrestled and won again. This will take a while (Trigger Warning, disability, autism, anger and resentment)

I have had a photo for a while. My sister put out a call for anyone in the family who had a picture of all seven children together, besides the one we all have. I told her about this picture I had, but didn't give it to her or share it by taking a photo of a photo.

Anyway, I am about 15-18 months old in this pic. So, of course, I have no idea where it is or why we're all dressed up. As far as I knew, it could have been a church thing, because the building we're sitting on the wall near looks an awful lot like a church to me.

On sister's last visit to my house, I gave her the picture. She laughed and said, Oh, right, this is at the Institution! We were visiting (Severely autistic sister)! No wonder we all looked so tense. This was in the same city, but not very close to our house. I'm sure, knowing Dad, we were piled into the car after Church and driven to 'visit your sister'.

This fills me with mixed emotions. She was my sister, but I can't remember a single day when she liked me at all. I don't remember a single time when we could even be in the same room together and be in peace. Ever. And, according to my Dad, *I* was the reason she was put there. Because I was failing to thrive with an older, profoundly autistic, sister in the same house. Ergo, institution.

I almost dropped the picture. I don't want it. I'm glad I gave it to her. Every picture of my sister brings to me feelings of shame, doubt, fear, having let my father down in a profound way such that I can never make up for it. Even the pictures of her in her half-way house where she was happy as an adult. There is no picture of that sister which does not repel me because of all of those negative emotions. That sister has been dead and buried for over 15 years. Still, the photos haunt me. I did love my sister and I did get the sense that she has forgiven me for running away from her in adulthood. She had her part in that as well, profoundly autistic or not.

Don't know why this came up, but here it is. One of my demons that just won't quit. And it doesn't like to shut up, either. Next month is going to be a difficult month for me. There will be lots of Autism Speaks events, highlighting the very real accomplishments of people along the autism spectrum. I AM glad to see these stories. But, throughout October, I am going to be triggered over and over and over again. Not the least reason that her birthday (and mine) is in October.

Part of me wants to attend these Autism Speak events. Speak of my sister and try to reduce the guilt/shame/hurt/anger by talking about it. Would it be rude of me to stand there and tell them that they are pompous when they assert that we should ALL love and speak for the Autistic in our lives? Should I say that some Autism Speaks, but when you're barely a year younger than a non-speaking autistic person, you don't speak either? Would it offend if I told them to shove their love in the backside of an angry bear? Until they've walked in MY shoes, they have NO RIGHT to tell me how I should feel about autism.

I wish I could find a group of younger siblings who DIDN'T have a wonderful experience full of love and sunshine that I could be open and honest with. I would love to hug one other younger sibling who says - this wasn't fair! I was younger and got ignored because of the needs of the older, autistic sibling! Maybe I wouldn't feel like such a horrible person for not adoring my sister. Maybe I wouldn't feel like such a *-bound failure of a human because I was hurt and angry at her just for being the way she was. For making my life harder. For making Dad resent me, even after he had to put her into the institution, because he wouldn't have had to if I'd never been born. For feeling horrible to even think these things, let alone express them.

And the triggers will be everywhere. And I'm tired of fighting them. Alone, because hubby THINKS he gets it, but doesn't. Hubby is no support at all on this. And, his fuse is short when it comes to caring about my issues that last longer than his lecture of what I should do to make myself all better. Crud.

This took longer than I expected. I'm sorry, faithful forum friends. I go through this every year around my birthday. I love having birthdays. I love being around family and friends. I tend towards FOC and friends since they don't tend to remind me of PAS (Profoundly Autistic Sister = PAS).

I really have so much that I could go on for pages. Much I've said before. Much I thought I'd got past before. Evidently not.

::: Breathe ::: ::: Again, Breathe :::

my dearest wife2,

such profound emotions - i feel them.  my younger d was in a similar situation, albeit not w/ autism.  my older d was rife with mental illness nearly all her life, and younger d got ignored because of it as well.  i'm sure she could relate greatly to your feelings.

no, it's not fair, not too you, not to her.  it is a shame and a sorrow in my heart.  but, it's on me, not on her.  whatever happened, it was on me (and her father, for what that's worth).  just like it's on your father, not on you.  he just never took responsibility for his decisions.  instead, he put them on you so you could carry that tremendous burden for him.  that was absolutely not fair, nor was it right.

the idea of you trying so hard to unburden yourself from this and not succeeding - i suspect it's because you're working in a 'negative' atmosphere.  you know, one that continues to suck the air out no matter how many oxygen hoses you utilize in your attempt to fill that black hole.  it's an impossibility because you're trying to breathe in a vacuum.

the idea of being human in all its facets can be daunting, but human you are, my dear.  i can tell you till i'm blue in the face that none of this was your fault, therefore none of it is your fault.  however, it isn't until you can tell yourself and believe it that this demon will dissipate.  you were born into a neg. situation, and it was up to the adults to deal with it in a caring, gentle, loving manner.  that's what you deserved.

i am heartsore that you went thru this, that you were blamed, that you are the one living unhappily because of it.  my younger d still has issues with me (i don't know if she holds her father responsible at all, or if she's talked to him about it.  she's talked to me, and still can't get past some of it, even tho she's finally nc with her sister and understands.  still . . .) because of our family dynamic.  this is no easy task to perform, to get out from under.   

we are libra sisters, i guess.  my b-day is the 7th.   my gift for you is the wish that you can finally throw that yoke of responsibility off your shoulders where it will be trampled into the ground by 100 oxen, never to be a weight for you to carry again.  with all love and angel wings to embrace you, i salute your honesty.  you've got nothing to be ashamed of or to apologize for.  you deserved better. 

Big hugs back, San. And thank you so much. 

To help you with the cross on your shoulders....

The reason I'm angry at the adults is that, even after PAS's (Profoundly Autistic Sister) death, they assume they can tell me what a wonderful sweet person she was and that should wipe away all those years of her hitting, scratching and biting me. Their experience of her should trump my own. And, because I'm 'part of the Autistic Person world', I should embrace ALL Autistic people. See, the judgment of me as lesser and smaller-hearted and unkind goes on, will go on until all who knew PAS and me have passed from the Earth. THAT is the part of all this that makes me angry. They refuse to believe that the person THEY experienced as kind, loving and welcoming is not the person I knew. They refuse to acknowledge that, for whatever reason, she hated me. And that her hatred of me had, and has, a long-lasting, painful effect on me.

What makes the pain fresh is that they continue to invalidate my experience because it's different from theirs. This is the secret of opening your daughter's heart over time. Validation of HER experience of you and your oldest D and her father. Validation that HER perspective was and will remain different. Validation of HER choices in how to cope with this as an adult (as long as they are not self-destructive). This will allow those wounds to finally heal, for her to trust that you did and do love her to the moon and back - that those aren't words heard in a movie and repeated for effect.

I've never truly healed from PAS's funeral. The entire event was a nightmare from the time Mom and me rented a car to go. At no point did the nightmare relent. But, the most painful part was when my father spoke as if that woman, his PAS daughter, had never done a single thing to hurt another human being ever, with me sitting in the room knowing otherwise. Fine, you don't want to speak ill of the dead? Well, don't insult the life of the living either. There is a way to tell the truth without blowing sunshine OR insulting others. To not even allow that the sunshine could be flawed is to invalidate PAS's humanity AND my reality.

The biggest single take-away is to validate your daughter's experience of the whole thing. On her terms, letting HER bring it up as she needs to for her sake. To listen without defending, judging or correcting. She may remember it wrong as facts go, but she's relaying her experience of it as much as anything. Who cares if it happened on Tuesday, not Friday and it was raining, not sunny and she said that to both of us, not just you? Don't invalidate the deeper message of her pain or her struggle because you remember the facts better than she did. Later, when she's managed that round of pain or memories, you can laugh and say, I bet you a tuna sandwich that happened on a Tuesday. Something to keep it light and non-threatening to the validation already provided. And only if the facts of the situation will distract YOU from providing that validation in the future.

That's fresh on my mind because my husband lost a perfect opportunity to give me some validation and support after a tough day at work, but got lost in his own understanding of the specific words I used, my emotional state, how HE would have handled it better. When his lecture was over, I failed to have any desire to talk with him ever again about anything personal (not great in marriage) because he really hurt me with the invalidation of my feelings and the surety that his way was so much better than my own. At that point, when I had asked for support, it didn't matter even if his way would have been better.

So, listen, validate, love. You are already so wonderful at all this. I feel sure that's why your daughter is making the progress she is. That is where you show that the past is past and even harsh words spoken from pain and anger are forgiven, but moving forward you really will be listening. And hearing with your heart as well as your brain. Like you so often do for me. Thank you!!  :bighug:

Hi Wife#2

I was the younger sister (just over a year younger) of a severely disabled sister, and my sister's needs and problems were really hard for the whole family.  In one way, my experience was the opposite of yours because my sister was never institutionalised despite pressure on my mother from family and professionals, which I feel sure in myself, included "think of your unborn child".

Being an unplanned child, conceived so soon after my sister was born was a major reason I feel I was scapegoated in the family; being set up as a reason to remove a beloved baby, being touted as a replacement baby in the struggle of my mother's life, and because the extreme demands in coping with my sister's disability, and stress of and conflict arising from the situation meant my mother didn't have the time or emotional space, and possibly the unconflicted desire, to bond with me.

I think having my sister with us meant it was impossible for any of us to create a fantasy of who she was. I loved her very much but it was hard.  It sounds like your parents may not have been able to come to terms with having a disabled child or with their guilt at removing her from the family home and that you might have been blamed to alleviate the burden of their guilt.  I can't say, I'm just throwing it out there.  Maybe also, they weren't able to love her as she was and they created a myth about this too.  I can't understand why there would be a need to create a fantasy version of your sister if they were able to accept and truly love who she was.   Where a childly is severely disabled It is hard for parents to grieve the child they wished, to make the transition to loving the child and it may be that institiutionalisation my make this even harder.  Again, I can't know, I hope suggesting this isn't intrusive or unfair.  It really is just what is going through my mind as I read your story.

I'm sorry for  what you went through, are still going through.  It wasn't fair to blame and invalidate you.  It's hard enough to be an almost-twin of a child with great needs, and it is still hard living with having had so many developmental needs unmet - that is my truth.  It is no wonder you have been left with feelings of resentment.  I know that even without my sister having been beatified in my parents eyes, my needs and the ways I was affected went unnoticed and unacknowledged, at the same time as my sister's greater needs were the focus of enormous devoted attention.  I don't think I felt jealousy simply because this was how it always was and I internalised being unimportant and unlovable.

I feel for you.  thank you for talking about this.

Wife#2, I might manage a longer reply sometime but for now:  :hug: :hug:

thanks, wife2, for the heartfelt advice.  my d and i have come a long way, have been able to talk about it, and are closer than ever now.  some of her issues are also connected with the sister dynamic, and it's all tangled together, so those parts are what are taking longer for her to resolve.

i feel pretty good about it all nowadays.  what helped her a lot was when i went nc with older d.  that act spoke volumes to younger d all by itself.  she was able to do the same about a year later.  i think my finality was very validating for her.  sometimes actions really do speak louder than words.

i'm very sorry to hear that your hub said what he said.  i don't blame you for not wanting to go to him anymore with anything personal.  i wouldn't either.   that lecturing crapola after the fact - it just doesn't make any sense, and sure isn't of any benefit to you.  how could it do anything but make you feel rotten?

been there, done that.  it sucks.

as far as knowing that others only see pas the one way your parents show is agony.  i experience that with my ex.  everyone thinks he is the cat's pajamas.  he is an entertainer and a great liar (he's bragged to me about being so, even w/ his t) and no one has any idea of what a crudrot he really is.  no one would believe me, either.  so, i sit with the knowledge that no one will ever see him for the kind of man? that would push me out of a 20-yr. marriage because of his narc attributes.

so, we go on.  as best we can.  i'm standing beside you no matter what, i hope you know that.  my heart is with you, wife2.  you are my dear sweet sister and i love you dearly.  that won't change.    i believe you, for what it's worth.  and i know you're always beside me as well.  together, we'll get thru this.  warm, caring hug coming your way.

I wanted to write this down so I can come back and re-read it often.

*** I hope that my son loves as deeply as I love him. I hope that his love is returned and that he discovers the joys of this world. I hope that he grows to adulthood healthy and open to life's experiences. I hope this world doesn't betray him.

I know I can't keep  him innocent - that boat sailed many years ago. Still, I hope to allow  him to have his child-like naiveté about the uglier aspects of this world. I hope we (hubby and I) continue to protect that and nurture his inner strength through confidence. The kind of confidence that comes from knowing one is loved and valued.

With the news being what it is lately, I am taking a hiatus from the news. I just can't hold on to my hope for the future AND watch the news. I also can't protect my son from the news - I know that - but he doesn't have to have it splashed in his face on our giant TV every evening as well. So, our home will become a place where internet searches replace news broadcasts. Last night was jut too much. I can't do that to my self or my family anymore.

I won't hide from it forever, but I need a season away from it all. I sincerely hope my husband understands. So, I can repeat and help guide my son to a path where those statements of hope can come true for him.

I'm not in a good place today.

**** TRIGGER WARNING, I THINK. JUST IN CASE **** Please, if you're having a less-than-wonderful day, avoid this post.

I just am not feeling any love right now. Not from friends, not from family, not from birth family. And they're all trying!







So, what's my issue, you say. Good question. While I've been telling my husband for years that I crave touch and that I do not feel loved unless I am touched with tenderness, he's been oblivious. The few times he WILL touch me, he expects HIS needs met nearly immediately. Every time. He's not hearing me that my well went dry from all those drought years and he has work to do to fill them. So, I've dried up like a tumbleweed regarding him.

Now, I have been sexually harassed at a former employer. I will not allow that to happen again. In fact, I've got so many self-protections in place that many of the men around here think I'm rather prickly. That's fine with me. They know I'm not mean, I enjoy a good joke or two, but don't try to touch or get physically close and don't try to get me talking about home life. NOT gonna happen!

Work has also been insane lately. I've literally had two full-time jobs to try to get done, while also helping cover in other departments, having just recently survived a layoff. So, when overtime to try to get caught up was offered, I jumped at it. I'm stressing out as it is, and the extra time is needed and the extra money would sure come in handy.

I was, therefore only slightly surprised when hubby asked me if I was having an affair. 

The surprised part was angry, because if ANYONE would consider cheating, it wouldn't be me. I won't allow myself to be in a situation where that might even be possible. I even offended the nice, flirty clerk at the nearby store because his flirting made me want to respond in kind and that was not appropriate. The walls are up. Besides, we may not be happily married, but I still wouldn't hurt him that way.

The not-surprised part was sad. He'd rather think that I was cheating than consider that he was letting me down emotionally and that he could do something to fix it.

And, in the back of my mind is the reality that EVERYONE believes I should at least separate from him, except him of course. He's happy and not sure WHY I'm so miserable. I tried to explain that all he does for me doesn't matter when it's not what I need! It's like feeding and feeding and feeding a pet, but never giving them water. They get a little from their food, but not enough to sustain them! When they plead for water, looking at them like they're rude for not appreciating all the food misses the point so dramatically!

Now I feel completely alone and misunderstood and taken for granted for all I do and because I'm dying of touch 'thirst' over here I'm now being doubted for my integrity? Because, as a seriously 'thirsty' woman, I can't give him HIS needs anymore? He refuses to see the progression as natural. And I'm at a loss how to open his eyes.

And I'm at a loss on how to move out or move him out so we can separate and determine if that's what needs to happen. OMG, the housing market around here stinks even worse than the job market! It's all either scary-bad neighborhoods that I can afford or nice neighborhoods I can't afford! And if I can't afford them, for certain, hubby won't after a separation.

So, not having a great time. Hubby thinks I'm cheating because that's easier than listening to what I've been telling him was going to happen if things didn't change - and they didn't change. And, now I really don't know what to do. As usual. Stuck because I hate making painful decisions. And I'm afraid of hurting others, even if they've been hurting me emotionally for years.

Ugh.

 :hug: :hug: :hug:

dear wife2,

you will do what you think best, and i totally support that.  by the by, i, too, avoid the news now.  overwhelming on so many levels.  don't need that in my life right now.

in life, everyone has expectations, and in reality, all those expectations won't be met.  that may hurt sometimes, but for those we love, we would rather they take care of themselves first than sacrifice themselves to take care of us.  no?  my hub told me one of the most loving things i think i've ever heard from a man a few weeks ago.

he'd been helping me with all my illnesses for nearly 16 yrs., but he wouldn't do what was needed to help our relationship.  and, i had to leave.  we still love each other, and i know it hurt him deeply when i left.  it sent him into a shock that he's finally coming out of.  we still talk on the phone every week, and are very supportive of each other.  it's much better for me this way rather than living with him. 

what he said to me was that if i could find another man to take care of me, it would make him the happiest man in the world.   i'm not looking, and i told him so, but for a mexican man to say that to his wife, well, that's not really done.   to me, that was a declaration of love.

i write this because i understand your dilemma, wife2, of not wanting to hurt him.  i didn't want to hurt my hub, either.   i, too, stayed too long.  i'd talked about leaving him for years.  i'd gotten to the point, however, that i knew if i didn't leave, i would continue to sink and eventually, painfully drown.   i saw it, i felt it, and it was the point of no return when i knew what had to be done.   it was a singularly-focused knowing.  i had to take care of myself, and pray he would find his way to take care of himself without me.   he's been challenged, but he's staying afloat. 

i'm truly sorry for your struggles with this.  those chains that bind us, that compel us to look to the well-being of others  as we writhe in agony within our repetition of those messages that tell us we don't deserve to take care of ourselves if it means we haven't taken care of the whole rest of the world first, can be the most difficult to break.  standing strong beside you, wife2.  i know you're doing the best you can in a more than difficult situation.  big hug filled with love and understanding to you, dear friend.

 :hug: Thank you, so much, sister San. I really needed that hug this morning.

I did have a good weekend, despite hubby being strong on all the planning and my not getting to do something I though very important (wanted a date night on our anniversary, got dinner at home with extended family instead). It wasn't that I didn't enjoy the meal or the company, it was that he heard my preference, disagreed and went ahead with his plan.

Then, Mom came over yesterday. She brought a sweet card and flowers and was really wonderful for the whole visit. I miss THIS version of my mother. I MISS the woman who could reach out to me and with a look show me all the love she feels for me and all the concern that I'm not happy but putting up a brave face. THIS is the mother I would see in flashes as I was growing up. She would then disappear under the weight of her own life and concerns only to reappear just often enough to keep me grateful. I hugged her until I almost hurt her, she looked at me with deep understanding. She let me touch her face to show the tender love I have for her. Yes, it was a good visit.

This got me to thinking about the relationship with me and my husband. He was attentive and kind all weekend. He didn't realize that telling me he'd rather be in another room than insult the show I wanted to watch was the same as insulting the show I wanted to watch anyway, but I let it go. He didn't realize that I am so in the habit of not expressing my needs that when he asked if there was anything he needed to do, I would naturally say, 'No, I'm fine right now.'.

And, it's stupid things. Mom got me flowers (birthday & anniversary same weekend, she got two bouquets), my husband didn't. Mom was tender and patient, hubby backhand insulted without realizing it, ignored my preference for an evening for just us and still managed to look like he was catering to my every whim while ignoring me for hours both days. Mom let me guide the conversation, hubby only really talked about his hobby all weekend.

So, I'm sad. And I really appreciate the hugs everyone is offering.  :hug:  :hug:  :hug: Thank you!

Just want to offer you a belated happy birthday and anniversary! And a big hug! :hug:

yes, happy b-day and anniversary.  i'm so glad for you that it went well with your mom.  you deserved that, and it was great timing.

a thought occurred to me last nite after writing about us hurting someone when we take care of ourselves.  it seems to me that that's not exactly what happens.  we don't hurt the other people when we practice self-care.  it's not us doing the hurting.  they may feel angry or hurt or pain because we're not doing what they want, but that's on them.

if we don't meet someone's expectations, does that automatically mean that we're doing the hurting?  that we're hurting them?  their feelings are their own.  i was taught that a long time ago in a support group - we can't make people feel hurt, or happy, or sad, or anything like that. 

anyway, just thought i'd write that down.   sending you a bouquet of flowers, hmmm, dahlias and mums and baby's breath for your desk this week in honor of your two big celebrations over the weekend.   coral and pink and orange colored petals, yellow centers.  greens and pink baby's breath to round it all out.  enjoy.  and a smashing big hug for my libra sister.    :bighug:

Happy anniversary and happy birthday!! :grouphug:

So much going on, has gone on. I'm not even sure what to write about. Seeing where I left off the saga helps.

Well, I hadn't said much about it, because I knew it was time for action, not talk. I was ready and preparing to leave my husband. I was hoping it would be for a separation until we could both learn better skills in how we treat one-another. Both being uCPTSD makes marriage quite challenging. Especially when the husband refuses to believe that he needs to deal with any of his past.

To that end, I have had a secret credit card for two years now. When things got tough between me and H, I could look at that card (when alone) and feel that I could make it through without using it. That was my measure - was it time to use the card, or could we keep working on things.

The hurt was mounting up - because hubby ignores me and belittles me, the two types of abuse familiar to childhood. I reached my breakpoint not long after the last point. He belittled me over some small thing that shouldn't have even mattered. Still, he chose to go to the cruel path. I decided I'd had enough.

Except he was finally participating with the marriage website I'd found. That would have been wonderful, but he missed the parts about how husbands can't speak to their wives in belittling ways if they expect those same wives to fill their sexual needs. He cherry-picked the site, using all he could to confuse me. Now that's not hard to do and he's been a master of it for years. He'll paint me into a verbal corner- I can't really even describe how he does it. Answering his questions seems harmless enough, until I realize I've answered my way into a corner and the only way out is to capitulate or to come out fighting. Since he'd been sounding SO REASONABLE, my coming out fighting sounds like I'm the volatile one with the bad temper. He knows how I hate to fight, so he's expecting capitulation. To his cherry-picked ideas.

I'll continue tomorrow when I'm back at work. I don't dare talk about this site, let alone lead him here - or I'll have no place to have private thoughts or hear from others if what I'm experiencing is normal or abusive!

so glad to hear your voice, doll.

i know about those set-ups, sly and subtle and cunning, where i came out looking like the bad guy and he just stood back with kind of a befuddled look on his face, like, 'what? i didn't do anything'.  in my case, that's exactly why it happened.  he'd stay back and let me make all the decisions and take all the flak. 

it really sucks. 

you sound stronger.  big, warm, loving hug to you.   

Nice to meet you Wife#2. I've noticed you around earlier posts and I know a little bit about you.

Man, it could really be tough when you're not being listened to in a relationship. Everyone has a right to have their needs to be heard and respected, but he's not respecting it here. Especially when it's been said over and over and over.

Glad you're back though. Take care.

 :cheer: so nice to hear from you but  :sadno: :snort: for the circumstances. Such a difficult spot to be in! I agree with San, you sound stronger. You got this.

I still wish we had a :flex: smiley.

Thank you all. I am stronger than I used to be. The porch, in many ways, is partially responsible. All of you are also partially responsible.

Yes, even you, Decimal Rocket! We may have just met, but I like who you are showing yourself to be. I smile every time I see your forum name in a thread.  :)

For why I'm here today. I've told everyone a version of the story that fits their view of me and my husband. I haven't told anyone the whole story, though. Not even myself until I sat down and began typing. I'm not fully ready to share it all here yet, and I don't really have time, either.

Right now, all I'll say is that my husband is in the hospital, they are running test to see what has happened. It's more than just a heart attack. Maybe no heart attack at all, but something is seriously physically wrong. And I feel trapped inside panic and sympathetic chest pains. I want to spare him all of this, but that's not my job. I want to reassure him that I'll never leave, but that becomes a lie as he uses it as a tool to manipulate me.

Last night, I spent the night in my home alone. Our son-in-law is watching our son so I can be at work today. Hubby is still in the hospital, having tests run. I am here at work, completely distracted, but doing my best to actually get work done. My coworkers have been helping - I had to leave suddenly yesterday to take hubby to the hospital. Still, I like things my way and had to go back through everything done for me and re-do it the way that is helpful to me.

Being in that home alone, for the first time since getting married, some old ghosts showed up. Insomnia, regret, sadness. Not even the puppies could bring me any joy. So many emotions, and I haven't the time to really deal with them at all. I'm sure life will make me deal with them. Hopefully not with the dramatic method chosen for hubby. Still, I know it is coming and I hope I'm ready. I also hope this isn't ruining our son's Christmas. To have two such damaged parents must be near unbearable to him. We talk and he says that helps, but still.... more emotions.

Sending lots of love and peace  :hug: :hug:

I don't have much else to give today, but I am always here. I am sure your son understands. The way you speak about your relationship with him is always amazing, it is something that I know many kids wish they had with their parents (I certainly did). You talking to him, and keeping him I the loop is amazing.

As far as your husband goes, you are right you can't lie and say you will never leave. It isn't good to give him something to manipulate you with. At the same time I do truly hope he gets well, and all of this can start to clear up.

I know you will be able to deal with all the emotions when the world gives that chance to you. It has a nasty way of doing it sometimes but I have faith you are strong and wise enough to do it. Know we are all here for you as you go through all of this  :hug:

 :bighug:

Hi Wife2,
Just wanted to pop by and give you a hug  :hug: - wishing you whatever you need at this time - when your husband is in the hospital - wishing you whatever would help in that circumstance - and sending you warm and loving thoughts.
Hope  :)

Thank you all!  :bighug: Back to each of you!

Yes, I see you over there, sister San. I feel your love and strengthening energy as well. Thank you!

with you all the way, you darling sister, you.  hope he's ok, and very sorry you're going thru this, especially at this time of the year.

i know you've got a lot of mental and emotional crapola going on.  just want you to know that i'm right beside you, sweetie.  not letting go for a minute.  big hug full of support and strength and lots of love.

Hey, bud, just glad we're already on good terms.

I hope you do better with what's going on with your family there. It's easy to see that you're doing your best though. You seem like a deeply loving parent.

  :bighug:

 :hug:

 :bighug: Thank you all for the incredible support. It mattered. It matters. I carry it with me and your support sustains me.

It wasn't a heart attack, but it was certainly more than nothing. We are relieved. He's home from the hospital and doing much better. The doctor believes hubby will be able to manage with medication. All say he was lucky. That he didn't ignore it, that he didn't have a worse warning.

I'm at work and crazy busy again - as usual. I will try to type more if I get caught up better than I am now.

:bighug:

Christmas was a wonderful, beautiful day. So much better than hubby or I expected. Especially given all that had gone before.

yay.  so glad all the way around.  i'm a sucker for happy endings.

warm, loving hug to you, wife2, and healing wishes for your hub.  always right beside you.

Hi Wife2,
Glad to hear that you had a nice time at Christmas - and just wanted to send you a hug  :hug: - and also say thanks for the Mama Bear (Kodiack) that you brought into my life - she is amazing.

Wishing you all the best for 2018, and wishing you lots of positive things.

Hope  :)

I'm glad that you can find some peace in the holidays. A time to take a break and celebrate for once. Especially with the often energy burdened population of OOTS. Lots of us need something like that.

Take care.  :hug: