dollyvee's recovery journal

[Larry]

Hi dolly,  sending some sunshine for you and your flowers !    

[Hope67]

Hi Dollyvee,
I remember reading what you wrote about the flowers you chose - I meant to reply earlier, but somehow didn't - but I think they sound very beautiful, and I hope you enjoyed them.
Hope 

[Papa Coco]

Hi Dolly

I'm just checking in to say hi. I hope you're doing well. Sending sunshine for the flowers!

[dollyvee]

Thank you Larry, Hope and Papa Coco. My flowers are doing well and the collection is growing - haha. No pun intended. 

Just quietly going through and processing things that are coming up. Feeling more space with certain things and other things that are requiring attention.

[Larry]

 

[Papa Coco]

Dolly,

I love your pun: Your collection is growing. HA HA. Double meanings, both are true.

I read your response to my journal, and I see you working on your power.  Working quietly through things, processing, etc. I respect that so much, as I'm in the process of learning that I share too much and give away my own power too often. I've read articles about how oversharing is a common trait in adults who were traumatized as children.

Thanks for addressing this oversharing trait. It's true wisdom and I need to address it also.

Good luck with the balance of knowing when to share and when to be discrete. I'm working on the same thing right now.

[dollyvee]

Thank you PC 

There's a lot in the John Bradshaw book that's hitting home right now and it's taking me a little bit to stand back and work out what's happening.

I'm noticing there's a lot of shame behind my reactions to people, that shame drives me to create a fantasy about people and situations (especially with romantic interests) where shame then appears and then brings me back down to reality. It's like I have these feelings (that I feel not good enough, there's something wrong with me etc) that I don't think I am especially in touch with , or connected to, because really, who wants to feel stuff like that? Then someone comes along that I sort of fancy (the who/why is also probably interesting and subconscious ie emotionally unavailable so I can repeat the stuff with my mom and family), and my brain sort of says, this is it, they don't think I'm those things. I think they like me for me, that must mean I'm not flawed. So, the fantasy starts (and attachment too) only I don't really know this person, and my rational mind is saying you need to be friends etc and this other part pops up that starts looking for danger, trying to protect me. Do they seem like they're being deceptive etc and it's like the fantasy part wants to override it, and somewhere I'm just saying slow down.

Then what happens, through being hypervigilant I think, is I start looking at this person's friends for example, seeing what they're like, and thoughts start creeping up like, "oh, I think they would be much happier with someone like that; or I'm sure they would be interested in someone like that." And I start looking for evidence that this is true, which if I see a little portion of, it's going to confirm all my suspicions, and all those feelings of shame come flooding back. What's even more out there that's happened recently, is that the friend was genuinely kind to me and I felt this genuine connection in a short interaction, and that brought up all these feelings of how I feel like I'm not good enough for this person, I won't be good for them etc. So, I start armouring and pushing everything out because it's easier to do that than to feel all this stuff that must be "true" about me. It gets compounded when other people in the environment we're in I think don't like me (another thing I think is true, but have acknowledged that I often overlook the ones that might or whoa re kind to me), and I think that there's no way I can be vulnerable here, or show an authentic self. Though is my authentic self always vulnerbale? Maybe it's the strong part that I feel like I can't show?

So, this is all how the shame drama plays out and basically how I think I'm self-sabotaging my relationships (if there ever was a relationship there to begin with though I do think there's definitely some initial qualities that draw me to a person that are positive). This gets compounded when JB talks about "roles" that we fulfill. So, in my family I was the one who had to take everything on I think, the one who had to fix things for other people, and I was the one who made them happy. In dating, if someone pulls away for example, it's like I have this compulsion that comes up. My attachment feelings are triggered (this is rejection, what about the "fantasy," the feeling we had etc?) and I start taking things on. I think I have to fix it because that time I didn't say something or did x. It must be my fault. I know that I'm taking on responsibility that is not wholly mine, which is also a form of control against the feelings coming up. What's even more difficult is that there is a part of my brain going what are you doing? You don't have to do that, if I chase someone who seems like they're rejecting me for example. It's like I just give up that power and assume responsibility.

"The dysfunctional family system roles are ways we lose our reality. Over a period of time the fact that we are playing a role becomes unconscious. \ We believe we are the persona that the role calls for. We believe the role-designated feelings are our feelings. The role literally becomes addictive."

The next layer that's coming up is transferring shame through "niceness" and people pleasing. I was a really "nice" person, it's on them that they don't want me etc. Nice (me) vs deceptive (them) gets set up etc. This is what usually happens and I can stay in my shame, or keep it protected because these ideas keep playing out. Only this time it was different and it didn't come to a point where they "did something," but it's like I had some distance from it and can see these things playing out. I can see the compulsion coming up and my need to fix it. Of course there is a possibility that they will "do something," be deceptive etc, but I have the option to not fall into my previous role and to deal with the feelings that are coming up. I don't have to be angry that they're not giving me what I need for example, but have the choice to accept that they're not going to, to discuss it etc. I also have the choice to accept that it's not my responsibility to "fix it" no matter what the compulsion is, and that I didn't do anything wrong. These feelings aren't coming from a place where I feel like I can't control them because I understand a bit better what's going on, or am at least acknowleding, or trying to, that there's shame present. The fantasy version of them that I have is not who they are and it's not going to help me get closer to them, and it's also putting my "stuff" on them that I need to deal with. I think there might be dissociation present here too that keeps these feelings cut off, or tries to suppress them.

It's a lot and like JB says, these feelings are mood altering. It feels good to play this stuff out even if it's not serving me. It's confirming everything about the world that I think is true. These things also get so split off that we feel they are us when they're not actually our authentic selves. So, it makes sense that even though I feel like I'm better and understand things, that these patterns keep coming up. I don't think I've dealt too much with the feelings of, or been aware of, the feelings of shame that drive them.

This is already long, but I'm also noticing that shame comes up around people and that I'm subconsciously holding onto these feelings and looking for "protection" from certain people, or looking for a protector in certain people because I feel shame about who I am. Of course I feel shame and jumpy around people after the way my sf treated me and how I then was a more visible scapegoat in my family. My m already set this up I think, but was maybe more hidden.

[Hope67]

Wow Dollyvee, there is so much in what you wrote.  I feel like you're really analysing yourself and how things are in your relationships, and learning so much within that.  I just wanted to say that I read what you wrote, and I think it's very far-reaching in your ability to look at these things.  I hope you don't mind my saying that.  I mean it as a compliment, and that I am impressed by your working through things in that way.  It's thought provoking.
Hope 

[dollyvee]

Thank you Hope  I'm glad that made sense to someone. I appreciate you reading through that and being able to reflect on what I said.

I've been feeling less of a need to do things to be "there" for the other person, to go to the gym at a time that's good for me, to do things that feel good for me instead. I don't have to do these things for someone. I'm still friendly, wish them well etc, but I'm also not controlling things, or trying to bend things to achieve a certain outcome. The compulsion to feel like I have to do that (that it's my fault etc) is so strong. But I feel better I think. I'm feeling more at peace with my space in the gym, which is a triggering place for me.

I think the time to talk/deal with anger is coming up and I'm realizing how it affects me. So, potentially doxxing myself (who knows!), I went away on vacation where I spent some time in the woods. I've seen ticks in that area before and when I came home this time, I started having weird symptoms. I went to the doctor a few times and they assured me that it wasn't a tick because I didn't have a rash etc. I was pretty adamant about getting antibiotics as a preventative measure, and having them listen to me, but after one doctor sort of caved and gave me a week of antibiotics, I think I just gave up. I self abandoned because it was easier to do that then feel again like I was being the "crazy," difficult one as I had so many times growing up.

Anyways, I put all the tick stuff out of my head and didn't think about it until explaining to a family member what had happened after I got home when I realized that this "cough" I've had could be a symptom. It's not a cold, not covid (I tested), but a weird dry cough. Sure enough it's a symptom of lyme and I also connected the dots about how sore my neck has been. I've ordered tests and made an appointment with my FMP to see what's going on. I'm just thinking about how I feel like my options are to be angry that I trusted these people who, in reality, are certified to know what they're talking about and everyone will "believe" them, or to be the person who is going by their gut instinct about what happened. It makes me feel angry to not be believed, and then I think "crazy" on the other hand when I just do my own thing. I wrote off my feelings because I didn't know if I was aligning my symptoms to my "fear," well worry, of being bitten by a tick, but now am realizing that I wasn't "crazy" for being so adamant.

It's like when I explain to people about my reactions or feelings about certain people or situations, even with t, they will write it off as putting things on certain people. Sometimes that's true and sometimes it's hard to say where certain information comes from. There's also a long history of doing that in my family and feeling of not being understood for why/when I needed space. This also came up, or became apparent in the conversation with the family member. The old feeling of people talking about you behind your back and subtle competitiveness reared its head. I get the feeling of why do I have to make things so difficult for myself, why can't I just go along? And then something like the above happens and I see that I have to fight for myself.

Fight is an interesting word choice too.

[Papa Coco]

Dolly,

You're really digging in. I'm impressed. I honestly believe that the more we seek, the more we find. The more we examine ourselves, the closer we get to understanding ourselves. You are definitely a strong searcher. You read the books and scour the internet for help. it's impressive.

Gosh, I'm so sorry about the Lyme's. I hope you can get it cleared up quickly. At the same time, I sure do know what you mean about how nobody is really there to help us unless we push ourselves in and do most of the research ourselves. Doctors have let me down so many times it's head spinning. And they don't have to be accountable for passing us off as hypochondriacs when we later prove that WE were right, and they were wrong, and we then have to make them give us the medications they originally withheld.

I sincerely appreciate your hypervigilance, as I've lived with it also. It keeps me searching every crowd for any danger. It keeps me careful about who I love and who I push off from. Sadly, for me, it's been turned on a bit high, so as I live, I occasionally realized I'd walked away from people who I discover later, really did like me. But I went into a triggered state, or misunderstood a reaction, or heard a rumor that I shouldn't have listened to, and made the Hypervigilance in me ignite, and poof. Off I went. I figure there might be people out there who really did like me, but I got so scared I pushed away and left. It's not our fault. It's the trauma responses that were put into us. In The Body Keeps the Score, Van der Kolk makes it clear that what abuse did to us changed the wiring in the amygdala. Our reactions are hardwired reactions. When someone pushes a certain button in our consciousness, a predetermined response happens in our subconsciousness. Examining our reactions is the first step in rewiring the amygdala. And you are diligent about self-examination.  

It all falls back on the recreation of not feeling heard. The world makes us help them, and when we need help, we either can't ask for it, or we do ask for it and nobody steps up, or we just do it ourselves and call it "just another Tuesday."

I too often wish I could just sit back and let the world do its thing. "Live and let live." Or today's modern version of that saying is, "I'll be me, you be you." But my pull to be responsible for everyone's happiness and wellbeing is so deeply engrained into my DNA that I just can't do that.

I hope the best for your physical health. I don't know too much about Lymes, just that it's not to be ignored.

[dollyvee]

Thank yo PC - I'm testing now a few different things as Lyme can mimic other viruses. It just feels so "boring" to have to stand up for myself all the time. I wasn't sure how to describe it, but the other day I read something about fearful avoidants avoiding conflict so they can maintain personal relationships. It's always felt so wrong to stand up because there was always the threat of people leaving (acting out/rejection) or setting boundaries somehow being my fault. Going through these experiences is like reliving that I guess.

This book. John Bradshaw says that "to be vulnerable opens us up to being shamed." I had an experience the other week where someone said it was nice to see me again, in an environment where I was hypervigilant, and it was the bottom fell out. It was almost like something stopped me from reciprocating because I knew I could be made fun of by some of the people there and I wouldn't be safe. I talked about this with tt and it wasn't like I had shame coming up, but I think it was the feeling of knowing that I could be shamed for being vulnerable like I was in the past. The thing I swore I would never want to happen again. And if it did happen, how could I go about convincing myself that 1) it's not like last time 2) I'm still a worthy person 3) that next time won't be different? Because I think all the little hypervigilance antennae I send out are looking for that confirmation that those things are true.

"Control is a way to insure that no one can ever shame us again. It involves controlling our own thoughts, expressions, feelings and actions. And it involves attempting to control other people's thoughts, feelings and actions. Control is the ultimate villain in destroying intimacy.

We need to control because our toxic shame drives us outside ourselves. We are literally beside ourselves. We objectify ourself and experience ourself as lacking and defective. Therefore, we must move out of our own house. It's like living in your front yard — guarding hypervigilantly so that no one will ever come in.

Achieving power is a direct attempt to compensate for the sense of being defective. When one has power over others, one becomes less vulnerable to being shamed."

I wouldn't say that I need to control other people, but the thought of not having some degree of control over myself, and the situation (to an extent) is difficult. I have to be ready for what people say and do. I would also say that I strive for independent power and now power over others, but a power that I can defend myself if I need to, but that drive is there. For example, the need to be self sufficient over personal relationships.

[Hope67]

Hi Dollyvee,
I am glad that you're looking out for your health with respect to the concerns about Lyme - and hope that you are able to find out what the issues are.

I read what you wrote here about 'control' and I found it thought provoking.  I recognise in myself that I sometimes try to be in control of situations - maybe attempting to look out for other's feelings, rather than minding certain boundaries, and I am working on that side of things to be better able to be open to interactions, and feel less like I need to control them.

I would like to send you a hug, if that's ok 
Hope 

[Papa Coco]

Hi Dolly

Control is the issue of the day here in my life also. The more books I read about spiritual healing of physical problems or physical healing for physical problems, the more I see the topics of shame and control come up in book after book. It seems logical that the more we try to control our feelings of vulnerability, the more out of control we become.

I think of control as a bit like hanging on too tightly to the handlebars, which makes riding the bike much more difficult than a light touch and trusting that balance will happen with momentum. I'm glad a lot of authors recognize this. Any book that shows how we can learn how to let go and be at peace in the moment is a good read.

I drank to control the feelings of vulnerability to a life that had problems I couldn't figure out how to manage while sober. People called booze "liquid courage." Back when I was raising a family, I lived always on the verge of losing my home due to chronic money problems. I was terrified that if I were to lose the house, my FOO would stand back and laugh at me for being so stupid that I couldn't support my wife and children.

I was far more afraid of the public shame of being unable to support my wife and children than I was about living under a bridge with them.  Since I didn't know how to fix the money problems, and I didn't know that feeling shame is normal and should be accepted, I drank instead to try and control the shame by shutting it up under the distraction of the alcohol.

It didn't work. The drinking to suppress shame actually became more shame.

Alcoholism is an extreme example of a way we hide from our shame. Other examples are anger, irritability, insulting others, greed, (If I can get rich, I can hide from the shame...but like with booze, the wealth eventually becomes part of the shame). The more I focus on this concept, the more often I catch myself reaching for anything, from junk food to angry outbursts, anytime I feel vulnerable to my own shame. ALL the things I've used to hide from shame, became part of the shame. The only thing I can do to stop the treadmill is to start accepting shame as a way of digging down to find the root of it, and then dealing with it, rather than try to counterbalance it with aggressive or passive control tactics.

Thanks for sharing JB's words from his book. It's solid information and is corroborated by other good authors as well. I think how we hide from shame is a pretty credible topic for research.

[dollyvee]

Hope - thank you  I hope you find some room to work with what came up    I often felt that way as well, stepping outside myself to control the feelings of other people as a way to control the environment and what happens. I guess this is the root of codependency, and again, a way of not dealing with my own feelings.

PC - you're right on with the feelings driving addiction and control. JB goes into this in the book and that toxic shame is the root of addiction. He also goes on to say that it's the process of giving up that control to a higher power (whatever that might mean to someone) as a means of releasing control and helping bring that toxic shame to "light." Rage is also the face of toxic shame as all the other emotions become "bound together" as I understand.

Have been stepping back and maybe having a brerak/processing things. I think perhaps this has helped me a bit to realize the critical voice in my head that is always blaming (shaming) myself for not being x enough and how much that voice sounds like/reminds me of my gf. How much is just blocked out because "I can't feel like that." It's such an immediate reaction to go into that. T and I talked about this recently and she said that our ideas about relationships, and responses to relationships were formed very young. Just realizing how much of my reactions are from a "young" place.

I guess there's some core things I've been dealing with lately, feeling like I'm going to be blamed when I stand up for myself. And just saying to myself so what? Trying to challenge my negative thinking that I have done something wrong (but of course looking at my own accountability). Again, I think this feeling of doing something wrong comes from a very young place and when I start to "step out" (I don't know how to explain this) of my preconceptions, I find maybe there are some places where this originated that I don't quite remember well. I'm thinking about my aversion to cooking sometimes, and this prevalent feeling that I will make a mistake. Then I remember cooking with my grandmother when I was quite young (maybe 5?) and wonder if perhaps her behaviour was perfectionistic and scolding for not doing things "right" as I remember her being in later years. However, I don't know/can't fathom why this would "freeze" me.

Thinking about the idea of vulnerability and trying to challenge my ideas about being in "danger." Something I read recently was to challenge the idea that your partner (or the person you are dating etc) is not out to hurt you. Of course, there are situations where you have to use caution, but it's also about trying to understand the difference between the two. I know I have been activated lately by someone I'm interested in and I immediately took their reaction as bad/making fun of me/humiliation. It took a bit to step back and try to evaluate that maybe that's not what it was, or that I don't have enough information to discern if that's what it was. I guess part of the issue too is that sometimes I want to believe that they weren't doing that instead of the truth of the matter, which is that maybe they were being unkind. I think my brain blocked out peers/kids/people being unkind etc a lot because I didn't have any boundaries to model it on growing up. There was no role model where I learned how to stand up for myself, I just blocked it out instead and tried to avoid people like that. I think I had to take peoples' behaviour and that was all I had to work with growing up. (I think this is what I mean in therapy when I say I had/have to take it all on).

It's so funny too, or I'm realizing how much I push things (feelings) out of my mind. I had someone say something to someone that kind of "exposed" my feelings for them, basically telling them I was interested in them. Internally, it brought up a lot of things. It sounds so childish, or at least that's what I was telling/reprimanding myself with, but it just brought up all that stuff about putting myself out "there," and how difficult that is for a shame based person to do. Adult me is saying a guy knows you like them, so what? But that's nowhere near the emotional reaction that's going on inside, which is like there's no where to hide. I was sort of pissed off about it at first, though I think they mean well. I brought up how I thought it was a bit much and I didn't ask them to do that (though I had talked with them about this person before and did ask if they knew/to find out their name). I don't think I did this in an angry or heavy way, but tried to be a bit firm. They genuinely apologized to me and asked if I was mad. I said no because I didn't feel really mad, but it didn't feel right for that to happen.  We are fine and worked it out. I pushed it out of my head (emotionally I guess because bringing things up like that there is probably a bit of dissociation going on) and in the car on the way home I thought about how I don't think anyone had expressed genuine concern for violating any boundaries growing up, or listened when I talked about my boundaries/what I felt, and it brought tears to my eyes. And then, of course, I feel shame that I didn't get that experience growing up when everyone else has had such seemingly normal lives.

More to write on the JB book and maybe how much I feel like I'm outside myself, that there's this image of me that I have to maintain that I think other people respond to, and how I imagine what their responses would be. Lots of shame stuff rn.

[dollyvee]

A couple insights from the JB book that I think are really pertinent today:

"we are willing to ask and believe that we do have the right to depend on someone, or something greater than ourselves"

I think about how much of the time there is something in me that says/feels, I have to do it on my own, which, as illustrated below is part of the battle, but can be also taken too far.

"the goal of life is to move from environmental support to self-support. The goal of life is to choose undependence. Undependence is grounded in a healthy sense of shame. We are responsible for our own lives."

I also think how much time, effort, and energy I put in to looking (consciously or not) for someone to protect me. It's confusing because you do want to have someone you can depend on, but I guess what matters is where that need is coming from. Is it coming from something in childhood that I didn't get, from that particular emotional place?

______________________

Hmmm so I'm readding to this. It's very interesting that I left out another quote that stood out to me today, which was:

"Perhaps the greatest wound a shame bound person carries is the inability to be intimate in a relationship. The inability flows directly out of the fundamental dishonestyy at the core of toxic shame"

I ended up speaking with someone that I'm interested in and I guess have been building up an image in my head about whether I admit it or not, or really I guess whether I realize it or not, and I found myself telling a "white lie" about something I did. I woke up with it on my mind and was trying to fathom why I did that? Did I want to seem a little more interesting? I haven't done something like that in ages (well, I don't know how much they were white lies, but maybe just dancing around the truth so I don't have to explain why I was on my own, or fully explain myself etc). I was just like what am I doing?! And then of course, more shame for having done the thing, I'm a horrible person. I guess this is the dichotomy JB talks about in action. I am either super human (no flaws) or now, subhuman and worm-like. I guess the way through is that I am just human and sometimes I make mistakes like that.

Again, it's really about being seen for who I actually am. If he doesn't like me as I actually am, then what? The other thing I read was to focus on if you like them, rather than if they like you and at times like this, I guess it's good to remember. I feel like I am beginning to put this person on a pedestal (unknowingly, it just happens so quickly at such a deep (?)/ undetected emotional level) and it's hard to reframe it. Ie that it me who is worthy and has to decide if I mesh with this person and want them in my life.