dollyvee's recovery journal

[dollyvee]

So, I've only started looking at this, but I feel feel like my "beliefs' about the person I was romantically interested in may have just set myself up to reaffirm my isolation. I went into the situation thinking, or projecting, that this person isn't a relationship person and they like gym bunnies. Basically, being defensive from the get go. The interactions I had with that person then became about trying to prove, if only to myself, if that was/wasn't true. In my head, I think I was shut down to connection because of the fear of this being true. Then there was a need to push things, or have things happen in a certain way (ie roll over and show their belly I guess that there was no danger), but that's not what relationships, or connection is built on. Someone can't be like that all the time, bending to my "will." I think that would make me just like my m/gm. Connection is about being open and letting people "see" you, which is a very layered (and dangerous feeling) thing for me I think.

I also feel, and am beginning to realize that this kind of "idea," or feeling about someone and what I hope to happen, is maybe a facet of limerance, or a fantasy bond where I am hoping x person will love me and see me in the way that my family didn't. I think fantasy, or imagining this kind of ideal acceptance, is/was a way of dealing with the pain that happened/was going on --the treatment that I blocked out, and just sort of hoped that someone would see the "good" in me, and what kind of a person I was.

I don't think that's especially romantic, or relationship evoking on one hand, and is just a way of continuing to bury the shame and pain because how do you begin to say, even to yourself, that I wasn't loved as child? I don't know if it's, "if I show up as myself then maybe this person will then see that I'm not worthy of love like my m did" because let's face it, that's what her actions said (and as a side note, is probably why I get so triggered if a romantic interests words and actions don't line up, which then makes me look needy/crazy wanting to have directness, but again, I don't think this is especially true for how dating works or things start out. I just had a childhood where people told you they loved you and their actions did something else). But in order for someone to actually start liking you, I guess they need to see "you," which is the good you and the you that has all this pain. Or maybe not? I feel like the pain is maybe quite close to the surface and always feels like something I'm trying to hide, or keep at a distance from people, which I guess makes me seem inauthentic? And thinking about it, I guess makes me emotionally unavailable. Hmmmm.

I guess the problem is when I start to open up those feelings where I feel like the unloved kid, or the way my m treated me, it makes me want to isolate and not be around people because it's such a deep feeling of shame? not fitting? feeling awful? How do I begin to integrate that? I guess it also doesn't feel safe and I want someone to make it ok, but I guess I'm the adult that's going to make it ok. I think there's still a big feeling of "not wanting anyone to know" operating. I guess maybe because I think it was me/my fault? But rather I guess that it wasn't me and I was conditioned to think like that. (Up pops a feeling of sympathy for the family and their life circumstances, where I guess I'm taking responsibility , or just taking things on as usual, and I have to think that if I have a choice to be different, so did they. Maybe something to unpack/remember here).

There was another article by Firestone's wife unfortunately (I'd really like more information on limerance and fantasy bonds where it isn't by a manipulative narcissist or his wife) where she talks about the fantasy bond between mother and daughter, and how the daughter (and I'm sure granddaughter) will sacrifice their relationships etc to keep the bond between them, or to help the "sick mother" essentially. She quotes a German psychiatrist from the 60's named Joeseph W. Rhinegold and his book, The Fear of Being a Woman who, like Firestone, is not well written about though does draw from a lot of research. I really wish there was something more contemporary and not coming from obscure sources because I do wonder if this is something I'm doing subconsciously. A relationship could cause tension in the family because on some level they (gm and gf?) wanted me to remain a child forever, and I wanted to be loyal, and/or not do anything to rupture the safety of that relationship.

Looking at some limerance topics on reddit, it's interesting to see that is was used by people who were emotionally neglected in childhood and I guess is an active defense to help process that pain, and to survive. I don't think I'm obsessive, but do think these ideas about people mask the pain in a way underneath.

[dollyvee]

I had a session with NARM t and discussed the above --the idea of connection and what might be holding that back; the bond that still exists to my family probably in the form of a fantasy of wanting them to love and accept me on some level, and the idea of being an unloved child (or as she put it, that they weren't capable of loving me). It was quite heavy with a lot of emotion and I guess I am beginning to process the grief behind all this, which I don't know if I've done before. I guess on some level I always held out hope of receiving this "love," in the form of coming from another person. I just wanted to not acknowledge those feelings because 1) it feels quite directionless and vast when they come up to be "unloved" and 2) it's hard to orient myself and know what I want/where I'm going/how to relate/connect to other people when I'm aware of them. I guess this is because I never had a formed "self" as a child (not Self as in IFS Self).

NARM is interesting in that it tracks emotional changes that happen in a session. For example, as I was explaining these things, and how it was to grow up around my gf where everything had to be done according to him, and if not, you were hopeless if you made a mistake etc., my voice was quiet like I was struggling to talk. I then had a moment of feeling like I was manipulating the situation, and "performing" all of this, trying to get attention. My voice became deeper and t said I crossed my arms over my chest. When she asked me what had happened, I told her what was going on inside my head, but I don't know where this stuff was coming from? Did I think I was performing because when I was sick as a child my m would ask me if I really needed to be in the hospital, as if I was making it up? Maybe I did on some level to try and get basic attention that I was otherwise denied. (Though I did have quite bad asthma at times). So, now my response is to shut down emotion/connection where I feel like I have to deal with these things on my own? Ironically, or similarly, this was the issue that triggered me a lot with my gm where she would get sick (though not take care of herself), and we would have to rescue her. I did feel like my attention was manipulated.

There was another instance when we were talking about self and I was explaining the vastness, that she asked me about the self, and it popped up and said I'm right here. I felt such an strong sense of sadness and awareness of how it couldn't be present. I don't know how to describe it, I think this is just the grief.

I watched some of Patrick Teahan's videos, which are very good, and there's one specifically about childhood trauma and limerance. Some of the things he's explaining really stuck out to me:

"when a child is not the centre of someone's world in a good enough way, they'll try to find a home in other people"

"(as if) waiting for a rescue"

"limerance is about being malnourished for connection - to be seen, to be safe"

"children need their person who is interested in them, seeks out time with them, and shares a special connection with them"

I don't know if I would fully label my experiences as limerance, but I do relate to a lot of the above, and think there is some fantasy/longing that a romantic interest will be that person who is interested in me, seeks out time with me etc. I also feel like there's some awareness (or self sabotage?) where I know a connection isn't going to be like the connection to my family, or am comparing it to that, and so nothing is ever "good enough" on some level. I don't feel I edge in the obsessive fantasy side of limerance though, and there is me who is aware that I have to do things on my own? Maybe this is the isolation, and wanting to maintain a connection to the ideas in the family, the life they wanted for me. I also do feel like there is a need for me to be seen, loved that is maybe strong (desperate seeming?) to another person. It's not really about getting to know them as a person, but playing out all this childhood stuff.

Limerence, Attachment, and Childhood Trauma
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvi9pDnIxb4

I'm also going through some of his other videos and there's quite a bit that stands out. I guess they're quite hopeful that you can actually come out the other side if you've gone through these things.

[dollyvee]

Something that's been coming up or more apparent lately is this internal sense of panic when something needs to be done, or there's something unexpected to deal with ie problem etc. I guess in the past there was always procrastination and reluctance to deal with it, or frustration, but now I'm feeling the panic when it happens. I'm guessing this has to do with having to deal with things that were beyond my scope growing up, nit being adequately parented and given age appropriate task, given criticism when I would make a mistake etc.

But what I'm also noticing is that I think there is an internal "fantasy" of things are ok, and this is how I am ok. So, when something comes up and shatters that in a sense, feelings break through. I feel like I'm becoming aware of how that internal sense of fantasy, or bond, maybe goes beyond just romantic interests, but is in being a certain way, or having a life that is a certain way etc. When I was discussing things with NARM t she said there is a sense of "I'm ok" that I have, which I think is true to a degree. However, I think it's I'm ok when I'm on my own and am involved in this world/sense of safety that I have somehow created. When connection (intimacy), or something else comes into the mix, it throws it into disarray I think. We also discussed how every time I find a bit of space inside, the impending doom, or critical voice pops up that something isn't safe etc, which is what this feels like. I have a bit of space (and idea that things are safe) then something intrudes and all of a sudden it's not safe.

These are not life and death situations either, this is being called about a payment that didn't go through for some reason, or having to provide a bank statement for a refund etc. On the other hand, when I am in the "right frame of mind," I can do all these things and handle them etc. I just think something shifts in my internal world.

[Chart]

Dollyvee, I've been reading your posts and am impressed at the work you're doing. I identify and relate to so much of what you relate. Love is such a complex subject. What it is, why we feel what we feel around it. I broke with a really deep love for someone in September of last year. She deeply hurt me aand I cracked completely. I immediately regretted it and tried to repair the relationship. But it was at that point that the "reality" of my trauma really took form. And faced with that reality of the "new me" my girlfriend said no. She offered friendship, but I in turn realized I was in total fantasy-bond... It was a clear microcosm of my primal trauma. Now Im reliving my infancy and the absence of love. My ex and my biological father have simply merged and the same scenario has repeated (even my bio-dad offered friendship twenty years later. I rejected that too.) So unraveling all my feelings and forces around my trauma has been hellish and revelatory. I guess that's what healing is all about. Stay the course. Thanks for your stories and for sharing. I started the narm book Healing Dev Trauma. Gotta find time to keep reading. Sending support!!!

[dollyvee]

Thank you Chart    I think it's such a deep thing that we're not aware of how that kind of attachment trauma comes into our lives. I think this is why I found the NARM book so interesting in that it goes into how that kind of trauma shows up in our lives through connection and disconnection. I'm trying to pay attention more to my triggers and think there is one that happens under the radar through perceived (whether real or not) rejection. What I found especially pertinent in the book that I've mentioned before, is that it doesn't matter if our conscious mind is aware of something or not ie that person not coming to the gym after I feel like we had a connection isn't about me, but my body takes it as a rejection and I go into shut down (fearful avoidant style), and my emotions along with it. I'm really trying to understand connection and disconnection more and I guess be more present when this stuff does come up.

I'm feeling really spun out over this situation with this person. It's a long story but I feel like I ended up sort of "forcing" the issue because I couldn't handle the feelings that were coming up when they were around, but didn't say anything. So, I asked them out for coffee. They said they had a lot going on but could meet the following week. I ended up seeing them twice in the gym and was triggered that they weren't being up front. I asked a couple different people what they thought. One said he could be busy, I don't know what's going on in his life and the other to ignore him because it seems like he's messing around. The thing, or tricky part for me, is that those emotions become overwhelming and I don't have a lot of space to just let things be and see what happens the following week. So, I sent a text which mayy have seemed kind of crazy to someone that doesn't know me, saying that I would like to get to know him and I just appreciate people who are up front (and not giving a slow fade in more or less words). Having to give that person the benefit of the doubt is so difficult for me. He said no and I sort of became defensive about called out his behaviour.  No reply. I did acknowledge, and was the start of a lot of awareness about the situation and how I was projecting a lot of things from the beginning. I sort of accepted it and was fine with the no, was busy with work and the next time it felt like there were vibes when I saw him. Cue the feeling of rejection that showed up, or preceived rejection. Again, just not really being able to sit with the situation. I was busy with work and didn't see them much and then tried to make eye contact just to see if we're cool. The lack of communication spins me out.

So, yesterday I was there and they came in (sort of stealthily where they would have had to go behind me when it's just much easier to go in front) and sat like 10 feet away on their phone, not working out in a sort of open space in the gym. I'd seen them there before stretching when they would go play racquet sports in other parts of the gym, but never when they were in the gym gym. It sort of spun me out, but I ignored them and left to go stretch. When I came back in we made eye contact and they sort of smiled or seemed open, but I felt shut down and went to go do my thing. This very much feels like the dynamic all along. They did like two exercises on the machines and left, sort of unusual. I felt off and left early. I felt like this behaviour is crazy making for me, and again, I have a really hard time sitting with these emotions. Why? It feels like there is some sort of antagonism that I have to fix, or that I don't want to continue, or will come back on me. I fully get if this person doesn't want to be with me romantically and I guess the lack of communication on their part is evidence of that, and someone told me to just let them do their thing. However, it just also feels like a grey area because I do feel like I was a bit intense, and it's like I can't fend off these feelings of overwhelm about it. I texted them friends? to try and smooth things over. Of course, I haven't heard anything back. I was hoping, but don't really expect to I guess. There is a part of me that says, screw him, but there's also another part that's mired down in something.

Someone was asking me why I feel like I need to reach out and smooth things over, and I explained because there have been a couple guys where it seemed like the interest was there, they didn't do anything, so I moved on. However, it was like they then became antagonistic for me doing that and passive-aggressive. I guess to me it feels like messed up power dynamics? One of them I don't really understand because they have a partner and baby now, but saw them last week and there was a lot of passive-aggressiveness. Perhaps there's something in my behaviour that I'm not seeing that is precipitating this? However, what I realized last night is that the whole situation is sort of reminiscent with what happened with my mother. I feel like maybe I rejected them, or just moved on because there wasn't anything coming from their side (ie pursuit which maybe is ill treatment in a way, or not being valued and seen like I matter). It seems, or I'm interpreting, that there's then these feelings of hostility because I guess I hurt them, or rejected them on some level (though tbh I don't see it when they never made a move, maybe because I shut it down in a way by thinking that they will never want me/be interested in me. I think I have a rejection wound), and now I am being punished for going my own way, or to have my own life. This sounds like a repeat of my mom punishing me and telling me I abandoned her after I went to go live with my dad because of the way I was being treated.

The whole things just feels really confusing and emotional and as much as I would like to smooth things over, be diplomatic, and have it end well, I have the feeling that that's not what's going to happen. It feels like trying to stop a runaway train (maybe slight hyperbole) but it's bringing up all those chaotic feelings again. I guess the best thing I can do is to try to be diplomatic.

What's coming up for me is how much conflict is really in my life that I seem to suppress.

Poss TW

Threatening to call the police if my m hit me that Christmas; dealing with a sf who is trying, well succeeding, in cheating me out of my inheritance and taking him to court for that, which I decided to stop because of how on my own I am in my family; taking my landlord to court for disrepair; calling out the bully at work who is trying to say that it wasn't him, he's innocent; calling out someone for sexual harassment. Petty behaviour from romantic interests and other women - the woman at the gym who I now call skeletor, that seems to have had it in for me since day one. It's always some competition or another, with everyone wanting to win and me just feeling like I need to protect myself.

End TW

Why is everything so heavy when I feel like I'm just standing up for myself? Does it go back to how much conflict was in my relationship with my m and I feel like I constantly had to stand up to her/protect myself?

TW

The memory popped up of when I was 14 and my m pinned me to the floor and told you're not stronger than me yet because I wanted her vintage top from when she was a teenager, and I don't think I took it off. Or I was protesting. We always fought, or I fought (for myself? to be heard?) and then had to concede because she would just try to overpower me. I guess on some level I'm still fighting to be heard and that sucks. What happens if I stop fighting to be heard? All these feelings come flooding back in, or am just met with the vastness of having people in my life who are unable to love me and who feel like they're able to oveerpower me?

Long post, just needed to vent all this because the emotional side of trying to understand connection/lack of connection with someone that seemed interested, or dealing with these situations is something I would like to, and feel I need to, start unpacking. Though I do feel shame in sending the texts and not being able to just let it go 
   

[NarcKiddo]

I think you are doing awesome work and reflection here, dolly. I have not got the energy to say anything much in response at the moment, but I have been reading your posts. A lot of the comments about limerence and wanting to know where you stand resonate with me. I have never been good at waiting to see how things pan out and often feel the need to push for a response from someone. Frequently it has been because I have been looking for an excuse to end the relationship (before it even really began) just so I had certainty of my position.