Messages

Hi again.

I was in danger of a ridiculously long post so decided to split it up.

Like you ponder on,  woodsgnome, I don't think anymore that there is a "cure". Not for me,  anyway. This is me. I don't feel part of society and am not fighting against this any more.

My disordered mother encouraged me to have children,  because she wanted grandchildren,  and after all, society expects people to have children.  Society will never question everyone's right to have children,  so those of us damaged by our parents have to be dealt with so that we fit in with societies' rules.

I know that people, doctors and therapists included, would say that these feelings are just the result of my disordered thinking.  And yes, they are right.  But isn't my view valid because it comes from my experience of life?  It is me! 

I will always be very sad and no antidepressant will help this. Neither will any therapy that tells me I am wrong all the time. 

I really hope that I have not gone over the top with this post.

Take care,

Libby.

Thank you,  woodsgnome, for such honest posts,  and thank you,  Kizzie,  for the above link.

This all speaks very much to how I have been thinking and feeling since my therapy "broke down."

The therapy was helpful to a point ( in easing chronic pain and emetophobia) but I was very uneasy about the insistence that I forgive my parents.  Her message was that being damaging parents is just part of being human so I had to forgive. Society expected it of me. It was giving me treatment so that I would be a "good survivor". Excellent phrase!  Only I couldn't or wouldn't forgive so therapy had to end.

My abuse story started before I was born, with my mother's problems and her long family history of mental illness. But society,  as represented by my NHS therapist and GPs want me to be someone completely different.

For so many years,  I was forced to be sociable.  First by parents - sent to loads of societies and taken to every community event. Kicking and screaming,  or sulky and unwilling!

As an adult,  it was always advised to be sociable ; mix with fellow parents ; get involved.  I tried and tried but every single interaction caused me such pain.

Being what society wanted was actually really bad for me, something I wish I had realised sooner.

Welcome to OOTS,  Wobbly.

Everything you describe about your history and how you feel now sounds so familiar.  I am so pleased to read that you are dealing with all of this in your twenties.

There are many great people here, with lots of advice and support.

Take care.

Libby.

Feeling for you,  Blueberry and very much relating to your difficult days.

I agree absolutely,  that pushing through is one of the worst courses of action.  It was a mantra in my FOO,  which I felt I had to maintain.  But it is very damaging in the long run.  I hope you were able to make the decision about going to work or not, which was right for you. 

I can certainly understand how triggering anything to do with your home town is. I can see how mention of the place and the memories that are then triggered would lead to an EF,  which then gets intertwined with present day issues.

I am so sorry for what you are dealing with at the moment.  I am having a difficult time as well,  but you have helped me to find my voice again, when I haven't felt able to post for quite a while.

Take care, Blueberry.

Libby.

Hi Hope.

I really sympathise with the horrid indigestion feeling. For me, it is a very strong emotional symptom. Hoping you have found some relief from this.

As you know,  I always keep up with your journal and have read about your working through the Janina book with great interest. 

At first,  I didn't really "get it", but now it is starting to resonate with me. I think my therapy experience has had a lot to do with this, and I understand a lot more about dissociation,  splitting,  wounded parts and so on.

So I think it is definitely time to order the book.  I think my husband would probably say something similar to what your partner said, about re-traumatising ourselves.  I just feel so strongly that I need to understand myself. Is that what drives you, do you think, in its most simple terms? That quest for understanding yourself, that other people just don't even have to think about,  let alone embark on, because they are who they are and they know it. Does that make sense in terms of Janina's book, perhaps?

You are a support and inspiration to me, so thank you,  and I will let you know when I get the book.

Take care and I hope your digestion is a little more settled today.

Hugs, Libby.

That's it, Blueberry.  Again you have hit the nail on the head,  so to speak!

My mother frequently threw a tantrum when things didn't go exactly right for her. And yet,  even as a very young child, I was scolded and laughed at for having a tantrum.  Even at an age when it was pretty normal. But the same rules didn't apply to her. Why not?  No wonder we grew up so confused.

I have the exact same problem with machines, technology,  cars etc. Something goes wrong and I can't cope. And yet it still seems like other people are allowed to be frustrated but we are not.  Is that why we continue to avoid,  I wonder?

We seem to have had so many similar family situations.  San Magic is so right - we were terrorised because they couldn't cope.

Good luck in dealing with pesky machines!

Libby.

Welcome to you, Roe.

Please be reassured that you belong here and will find support and understanding.

I relate very much to your mention of emotional and physical abuse by your mother. 

Hopefully you will find lots of information and support here,  as I have done.

Hoping to hear more from you, if and when you are ready.

Libby.

Oh, Eyesofblue, I feel for you so deeply, and thank you so much for replying to me, when you are having such a hard time yourself.

I just can't understand how the system can keep you waiting so long, especially as you didn't get your full quota of sessions anyway. I just don't think things are working - not for individuals who are suffering,  anyway.  It feels like they promise so much, stir up so much stuff and then leave you to cope.  I can see why you can't face starting all over again with your story.  And not having any contact information seems very, very poor practice indeed.

I am so sorry you are feeling so low and wish so much that I had something to offer,  other than telling you that I know how you feel. Sundays are a real problem for me, so I am hoping for a better day tomorrow. And I am hoping for that for you as well. Please let me know how you are doing.

Take care and hugs.

Libby.

Hi bluejerrie.

I just wanted to say that, although I am not sure if your situation is explained by the concept of dissociation,  I do relate to what you are saying.

Like you, I was beaten and severely emotionally abused, but during edmr,  I too felt no particular emotion at particular traumatic memories.  I felt much more upset at my mother's treatment of me when I too had children.  But the therapist dismissed this by telling me to float back to childhood,  to a situation where I had felt the same emotions.  I found this really difficult.

During therapy,  we also dealt with my vomiting phobia and social anxiety,  which were viewed as features of early attachment difficulties, but a lifetime of bullying,  although I raised the issue,  was totally passed over. I agree that therapy seems to view them as symptoms and not distinct traumas.

I just don't know enough about therapy and dissociation to offer any advice but I would have thought that a therapist should take a lead from what is troubling the client as a starting point.  These may well lead to our childhood trauma. My feeling, however,  is that therapists have their approach (in this case, psychodynamic)  and we have to fit in.

I am so sorry that therapy doesn't seem to be addressing what you want to address.  That was my experience too. My over-riding emotion about my childhood is anger, which my therapist said I must just give up, full stop. I would have thought that therapy could have addressed this, but it was a case of, "give up your anger, or we can't move on to healing".  No help to do this.

I am so sorry that you are suffering but I think that,  if possible, you could raise these issues again,  with your therapist. You seem to be blaming yourself for your failure to feel the emotions that your therapist expected. Surely,  a good therapist should have tools to deal with all of this?

Sorry for the lack of advice.  I understand your frustration and would be very interested to hear how things move on for you.

Take care,

Libby

Good for you,  Sceal.  You have realised the two areas that are important for you at this time.  I think you are so right to say that you will focus on these and leave the
"other people issues",  so to speak, for a later date. You are most important now.

Guilt-free and shame-free is something I am working on, and it's helping me. Look after you!

Take good care.

Libby.

Sceal and San Magic.  I really appreciate your support and validation.  I find it surprising that she expected me to undo fifty plus years of damage in a couple of months. In fact,  my previous concern about therapy was when, after four sessions,  she barked at me " Why are your depression and anxiety scores still so high?"  I was shocked that I was meant to have recovered by then and we had barely started the emdr!

I am concentrating on making my own guilt-free, shame-free choices and it is going well.  Initially,  I worried that this just made me as bad as my parents.  After all, my entire existence was about what they wanted.  I am starting to get little glimpses that this can co-exist with being with other people.  It is really hard for me to get my head around,  because of my black and white thinking and the idea that every interaction is about a winner and a loser.  Concepts drummed into me from day one! Finally,  I am beginning to understand the concepts of self care and boundaries,  instead.

In a funny way, perhaps my dealings with my therapist helped me to get a handle on this. She came to represent my mother and what she stood for, but I was able to say NO to her and her instructions about how I should live my life. Something I was never once able to do with my mother.  Perhaps this is what she was aiming at?  I can definitely see how this helps me to move forward,  but I still hold onto my belief that my parents were horribly cruel and did so much damage, whether or not they meant to.  After all, I wouldn't be needing to build up my sense of self, at the age of fifty plus. I would have started to develop this sense of self from birth.  Wow, I think I understand the concept of reparenting the self, at last!  They took away,  or rather refused, a massive part of my life,  which however I look at it, I won't get back again. I can't overlook this, it's a step too far for me. This is an acceptable decision for me, that doesn't hurt anyone else,  including my parents.  I can leave behind my guilt over no contact.

So many things seem to have crystalised through writing this. I really think that this is the amazing value of this forum. You read, you write,  you understand.  I always feel that I take more than I give to this forum,  but hopefully my progress here will mean I have more to offer others.

Thank you, wonderful OOTS people.

Libby.

Hope and San Magic, thank you so much for all of your validation, support and best wishes. I am so pleased to know that you don't think that I sabotaged my therapy by refusing to accept my parents merely as flawed individuals who are no longer in my life. That was what my therapist wanted me to accept.

In fact,  on my good days,  I do accept that. On my bad days, even with that acceptance,  it still hurts.  And why wouldn't it?

The one success of the emdr was with regards to my sister.  It was the one session that worked well - that got to a core memory, reprocessed it and left me with a new belief that I did not treat my sister as badly as my parents and my sister said I did. In fact,  I protected her enormously from my mother's instability.
I will never have contact with her again - her choice as much as mine. That is just the way it has to be.

The therapy just didn't address the issues with my parents in any meaningful way. The therapist said it was down to my failure to want to heal. I don't accept that,  which is, in itself,  a breakthrough for me
Normally, I believe whatever I am told. But not this time! That's my choice! 

The therapy, and the relationship with my therapist,  just came to mirror my relationship with my mother.  I was told I was wrong, had interpreted normal poor parenting as abuse, and needed to change by doing what I was told by mother / therapist.  More guilt and shame. But, at least,  I have finally realised that I have a choice. 

My goal is to accept, finally,  that I have a choice. It has to start with small things and it is going to take a long time.  Like you, Hope, this holiday weekend has let me practice making a choice and not feeling guilty and ashamed about it.

I will not,  however,  give up my sadness about what has happened to me and to all of us here.  That would seem to negate our suffering and tell bad  parents that it's OK to damage your children as it isn't your fault,  and to tell the damaged children that they can feel better if they too abuse their own children. 

So now for a shame free and guilt free day.  Hoping you all have a good day too.

Libby

Hi Blueberry.

Just wanted to say that I often "dip into"  your journal and I absolutely relate to everything you write about your FOO.

But today,  I just had to respond because your discussion of how your parents believe that YOU set yourself up for emotional abuse hit me so hard. This is exactly the message my parents always conveyed about me.  They actually seemed very proud of this realisation on their part, and very smug that a: they had come to understand this,  b: they were not like this and c: it was absolutely nothing to do with them. They enjoyed discussing this between them, whilst being sure that I would hear and pick up all of the vibes and insinuations they were giving off.

This, I believe,  is exactly the sort of thing that,  unless you have experienced it first hand, you just can't understand it. It is so subtle and yet so clever.  This was exactly the sort of thing I tried to deal with in emdr, which the therapist couldn't accept or deal with within the framework.  In fact,  she actually gave the same message to me as my parents did, namely "you have brought this all on yourself".

I hate that you went through such similar things with your FOO as I did with mine, but thank you for talking about it. It has really helped me realise that it isn't just me!!

Libby.

Hi Hope.

Everything you said about bank holidays and their connections with FOO rang so true for me as well.

I have always felt so I'll at ease around these holidays,  even as a child. Now there seems to be such a pressure to behave in a certain way on a sunny bank holiday weekend,  and so much shame and guilt if you don't.

But I am right beside you in this idea that we accept our feelings, some positive and some sad, about what these times mean to us. I really like that you are feeling a bit more light and alive,  whilst accepting the less positive emotions around your FOO.
I think that I have managed this much better than usual this holiday weekend. I really think that we are on the right track, so to speak. Accepting the sadness,  but ditching any shame around how we now choose to spend these times. 

I hope you have a nice day today,  doing whatever you decide to do, and finding some small pleasures - the sort that make us feel alive!

Hugs,

Libby.

Thank you Hope. You are always here to give me that last little gentle nudge that I need to get me communicating.

I have been in such a "mess" since my last therapy session.  Up, down and all over the place.  I think it was the therapist's assertion that if I wouldn't give up my anger at parents,  it must be because I was holding onto it for a reason.  Which I suppose is right. I think that,  without my anger at my parents,  I don't really exist at all. I do feel much less anger at them, but that just leaves me with the crushing sadness, depression,  shame, guilt etc. At least when I was angry,  I had some energy to do things. Now I just feel hopeless.  But I am holding onto the idea that this could be the next stage in the grieving process.  Trying to keep going, but it's hard when I feel so utterly exhausted.

My therapist was so keen for me to see  my parents as just flawed individuals, who had themselves been damaged. Unfortunately,  because of the damaged way I think, as a result of my parents,  I am left with the guilt and shame for the way things turned out.  Because my whole life with my parents was a battle where we were winners or a losers and there was no middle ground.

I can't seem to alter that mindset,  which is proof of how flawed I am and why I sabotaged the therapy.

I am not sure if this makes any sense, but even if it doesn't,  it represents the convoluted nonsense that is going on in my head.

I think what I am trying to say is that I have to accept what I am. I have never been anything else. In fact,  most of the time,  I don't think I have ever really existed as a person in my own right. I realise that every real life interaction,  good, bad or neutral triggers me enormously. The intense nature of therapy was too much for me. I felt attacked if I didn't take on the therapists' ideas, which felt like being with my mother again. 

Where I go from here, I just don't know
I shall just have to go with it and see. Which, actually,  is quite a breakthrough in thinking for me! 

I am really trying with some small changes to my behaviour that might make things better for me.

Thank you, Hope,  and my other friends here.