Messages

Hi Hope.

I really understand the thoughts and feelings you were describing.  Isn't it incredible how almost every social interaction becomes so fraught.  Not in respect of the actual interaction,  but of what we have to put ourselves through in our heads. I look at other people,  including my husband,  and marvel at the way they just don't seem to have doubts about what they have said, how others have responded,  what people think, what it says about them. All the things I worry about and I get the idea that many of us do. No wonder everything is so tiring!

I think you do really well with social interaction,  because I realise just how hard it can be.

Enjoy some good food with your partner!

Libby.

Thank you so much, my "therapy-support" friends. I have had a very up and down weekend,  but despite everything I still feel that I have got some positives out of a poor experience,  but still have a strong, lingering doubt that it was poor because of me and not the therapist. 

I realise now that reaching out to people,  other than here, just doesn't help. They don't get it and don't want to get it.  And that includes doctors and therapists.  I feel very aware that I was looking for something,  that I never got from my parents when I needed it, so am not going to get it anywhere else. I don't think I will ever achieve any degree of self love,  but I am working on self acceptance.  The therapist seemed to want me to change. As she put it,  to rewrite my story.  To do things I had avoided, and so on. But actually,  I think for me, it is better if accept myself and my limitations,  but the key is not to feel the overwhelming guilt about my life. For example, not to force myself to socialise, like I have done,  but not to feel ashamed and guilty for not joining in.  My therapist said that my belief that I didn't know myself,  because I was only what my mother said I was, and that I  tried to be whatever was required in the moment,  which left me feeling vulnerable and fake, was nonsense.  Something I had read and bought into because it suited me to say so. I don't know if you agree,  but I think that is very central to Cptsd.

Therapy has taken away a lot of my anger at my parents,  but now I am left with just the terrible sadness. Sadness for my parents,  myself,  my children,  everything. I think that this would be counted as a success for therapy,  but not sure if sadness is more tolerable than anger. At least with anger, I kept fighting.  With this sadness,  I just feel hopeless and powerless,  which is what I felt always with my parents.

But having said all that,  I feel at least,  that I have finally made some decisions for myself - no therapy,  no medication,   no talking about my issues from my parents ( other than here!!)  no forcing myself to do things I don't want to do, less guilt about who and what I am. It's a start,  I think.

Hope,  Eyesofblue, San Magic, Blueberry, you are all amazing.  Thank you.

Libby.

Dear Artemis.

Right now I find myself in a very similar position to you with regards to a therapist.  I came across so many similar red flags to the ones you describe.  Like your therapist,  she was very,  very pushy with advice about how I should live my life, and she was constantly telling me that my n mother was deeply injured so I had to forgive her. Sounds as if they went to the same "therapy school"!

I don't know about you, but I was left very confused.  I definitely felt as if she was playing mind games with me. So then I questioned myself whether this was because she was a poor therapist or whether she did have a genuine motive behind her seeming aggression and keeness to provoke me. I just don't know. Some of her advice was good, but it was advice anyone could give.

My whole feeling about the therapy experience was that I have been "cured" of the desire to seek help which is a positive result for the NHS.
But I am very pleased to hear that you have experienced good therapists.  Because you know what a good therapist is like, then it seems as if you have made the right decision to ditch a bad one. That's a sign of strength,  I believe.

Good luck to you and I would be very interested to hear how things go for you.

Take care,

Libby.

Thank you all, as ever, for your thoughtful and sensitive replies. I thought I would just have a few days thinking about where I feel I am at the moment,  before posting again.  And I do think that I have worked through quite a few issues.

I think that I have definitely had enough of the therapy.  It was helpful to a point,  but as the therapist didn't appear to believe in the nature of my abuse, then it was unlikely that she could address it.  She has left me with real doubts about whether I did indeed suffer any harsh treatment at the hands of my parents. If I accept this, then I am left with horrendous shame at my behaviour and amazing levels of guilt that I abandoned my parents when they were getting old. So, that is the reason I was holding onto my anger at them. This is why she said that the therapy wasn't successful - because I was holding onto my hatred for a reason.  It was protective for me. Probably true, but now I feel very,  very ashamed of myself. 

What the therapy also pushed me towards accepting was that I have used being a parent for my own ends, and this was exactly what I accused my mother of. The process was a bit different - my mother knocked me down to make her feel better about herself,  whereas I built my children up so that I could feel like I had been a good mother, so that I could feel superior to my mother. The therapist was very critical of me as a mother,  saying that the role of a parent,  or so she was told by friends who had children, was to prepare them for life and send them off into the world.  Absolutely what I have done with my dd. The fact that my boys are still at home and somewhat reliant on my h and I for practical support,  is not my fault.  I would love them to leave home at some point and have a great,  independent life. It may happen.  But, despite practical help, which just keeps the house running smoothly,  they are absolutely their own people.  They are not at all emotionally dependent on me. Quite the opposite.  When I pointed out that this ideal was not given to me by my mother,  she became exasperated with me!!

I could go on for ages about all of the inconsistencies in her advice and instructions,  but that would just mirror my relationship with my mother.  In fact,  I realised that the therapy had come to feel just like a run-in with my mother. Therapist telling me that the problems are only in my head, and that I just need to get over myself and me feeling angry.  Feels so familiar and I suppose that in therapy terms, this proves that the problem lies within me and my decision that I do not want to heal. What really proved this to me was that she dismissed my neuropathic pain and very poor eyesight with a discussion of her need for glasses and the fact that she has osteoarthritis and something else that causes her chronic spinal pain, for which she does a lot of yoga. It occurred to me after the session that my final meeting with my mother ended on an almost identical note,  regarding eyesight.  Weird!!

So, anyway,  no more therapy and no more antidepressants,  so no more visits to the gp.  Actually,  that is a plus of therapy.  I have been cured of the desire to seek help. I know now that I can make my own decisions about myself.  And that is what I am practising now. I think this experience of therapy has made me feel even more ashamed of myself,  so I think I will continue to avoid people a lot.  But the upside is that I have made that decision for myself, with confidence,  rather than feeling guilty for avoiding and so forcing myself to connect when I didn't really want to. That probably doesn't sound like it makes sense when written down,  but in my head it makes sense.

I am so thankful for OOTS and everyone here.  My therapist said it was not good for me to read so much and come here and interact.  Well, I have decided that I disagree with her
Why shouldn't I have one place where I feel truly accepted and feel that I belong?

Big hugs for the whole OOTS community!

Libby.

Hi everyone.

Thought I would check in and update you about my session today.  It didn't go terribly well, to say the least.

The main issue we discussed was around my meltdown last week.  She said it was a result of pushing myself too much so that was fine. I tried to explain that I was generally very up and down in mood,  and that, on one day, I could feel compassion and forgiveness for  my mother,  but on another day,  when I was stressed,  I could be back to hating her. She said that I had not been honest with her.

Because things weren't going well, and based on her view of my parents,  I asked her if she believed in the idea of narcissistic abuse and she said she did not. She said that parenting is very difficult and no parent is perfect and that my parents did what they needed to do to survive with their fragile egos intact. I find it hard to view this as anything other than her saying my suffering is down to my attitude to my parents.  I have always questioned whether this is, in fact,  the case, as this is what my parents always told me was the problem.  But it is me asking for help, not them,  so shouldn't she try to help me, not blame me. A lot more was said,  very calmly,  with some tears from me, but it was concluded that I don't wish to recover and that I must have my own reasons for wanting to hold on to my anger and to not move on and heal. I said that I wanted to but simply didn't get how. That was what I wanted therapy for.

We parted on friendly terms but I won't continue and I suspect she guessed that and said it was entirely up to me if and how therapy continued.

So much of what was said seemed very inconsistent and I have been left confused. It was a last ditch attempt to feel more happy in myself and to see if I could get more out of life. I think I will steer clear of doctors,  medications and therapists in future. It just seems to mean more invalidation and trauma.

Sorry I can't be any more upbeat, but thank you so much for listening.   Any thoughts would be gratefully accepted as, at the moment,  I can't help feeling that the official view is that therapy only fails when the patient doesn't want to get better!

Take care.

Libby

This really speaks to me about the absolute confusion of cptsd. Was that one of the aspects you were thinking about whilst writing this, I wonder?


Libby

Thank you for support,  Hope.  I'll keep you updated.

Thanks Blueberry.  You certainly didn't express yourself badly.  I really think it was a big EF and certainly didn't get the idea that you were blaming me. Quite the opposite,  being very supportive.

I have definitely decided to go tomorrow as I really want to understand how what she said fits into the framework of emdr.  I am sure I can be completely calm and rational (unless I am in an EF) and I am just desperate to understand how these things fit together.  Afterwards,  I will hopefully have enough information to decide whether to continue,  if that is available.

Thanks to both of you.

Libby.

Thank you all for taking so much time to listen to me and to respond.  Everything you all said was really helpful since it made me think, rather than just accepting that therapy had failed, that there was some progress amidst breakdown. I think you are right, Blueberry,  in suggesting my losing it was an EF. Looking back, I can see how I  felt like a powerless child again, up against an all powerful mother. She told me I can never be happy,  and I still believe her, deep down. I just don't feel that the emdr has dealt with the real essence of my mother's abuse. If we had focused on that,  then maybe I could have accepted more fully the belief that it was no one's fault, blame, responsibility.  I was just unfortunate to have a damaged mother.

However,  suggesting it was my fault for being me, seems to be taking things too far. Thank you Hope for validating me with such passion.  It means the world to me.  My therapist clearly had some issues with her parents, but there are degrees,  aren't there?

However,  Hope, I think you made a really good point.  With therapy and without the emotional numbing of antidepressants,  I am experiencing more. I am even open to the idea that my therapist threw the idea of my abuse being "my fault"  as a sort of test.

( My husband agrees with you,  california dreaming,  she is dangerous and I should give her a wide berth).

Having got over the EF and experienced a lot of emotions around it, I have made my own mind up. Quite an achievement, as I usually
assume everyone in any sort of "power"  is right and I am wrong.  She is wrong on this. I was a damaged person and yet I was able to try an give my children what they needed,  even though all three were very different in what they needed.  I am sorry,  but even in harder times in the past,  people still put their children first and loved them. When I paid attention to my young children,  and talked about what they wanted to talk about,  my nm was very clear that she did not approve of me. It was said out loud on many an occasion.

Eyesofblue, your summary of where we find ourselves at the end of a course of emdr seems spot on. Still so much left unresolved!

So, with all of your thoughts and ideas in mind, I am toying with the idea of going for what could be my final session, as suggested by eyesofblue. With an open mind, but with the intention that this will be my final session with her, whatever.  I have spent my life in avoidance so perhaps this is progress. Taking what I want from the therapy but rejecting what I don't. 

This healing truly is a process,  but the feedback from you all really helps to work through it all.

Will let you know if I go or not, and what the outcome is.

Take care everyone.

Libby.

I would really like some thoughts and ideas on whether I should continue with therapy.  I have had eleven sessions of EMDR,  and it seems that the therapist is bringing it to an end. Several people,  including eyesofblue,  have said that the NHS limits therapy to twelve weeks at a time.  So it might not really be an issue.  But I have many questions and doubts anyway!

A few days ago,  I had a terrible meltdown over something really silly.  I probably felt nearer to doing myself harm than I have done in a long time.  I felt I was doing so well but then a minor setback, which denied me my peaceful day which I had been so looking forward to,  sent me over the edge.

All I could think was, my mother was right.  I don't deserve to be happy. If I dare to have an expectation of happiness then I will be brought right back down to reality.  How dare I think I can have a nice day,  after a week of running around after my family.  I don't resent the time I gave them. I was just so tired and needed some rest. It sounds silly,  but I felt as if the universe or fate or whatever was on the side of my mother.  I was fooling myself,  my recovery was a joke,  she was right about me all along.  This proved she had won. Over the top, but that's how I really feel.

The actual emdr seems to have helped with traumatic memories and at the moment,  I have much less physical pain. So that's all good. But whilst in the midst of my breakdown,  I was very aware of my last therapy session.  My therapist stressed so much how my parents couldn't have helped how they treated me. That was their "quirks". She actually used that word. She restated how they could never admit to anything because any admission of their abuse would be more than they could bear. She also said how it was highly likely that I was too talkative,  inquisitive,  demanding etc, based on her judgement of my personality now, that my mother couldn't cope with me. I was too much for her fragile ego. Probably true, but sounds awfully like blaming little me, for just being me, just being a child. I accept all of this as accurate,  but faced with a trial, it just fed into my belief that I have no control, am weak and powerless.  In fact,  I am all of the concepts that the emdr was challenging.

She also spent quite a lot of time discussing her own,  less than perfect, relationship with her own mother.

I feel ashamed,  a failure,  hopeless. I trusted to therapy, despite a lack of trust in most things.  I am not sure whether, overall, it has has been good for me. My abuse has been validated but it seems to have come back full circle.  My parents were who they were, I didn't suit them and I have to suck it up. And, of  course,  times were different when I was growing up! Surely some parents loved their children and wanted what was best for them, even in the 70's!! If I go back for a final session,  I feel like I will have to pretend to be fixed, because that's what is expected of me, after the NHS has funded this treatment.

I hate how bitter and hateful I sound.

Would really appreciate some feedback, but just writing this down has been helpful.

If you got through all of this, thank you so much.

Libby.

Thank you all, my "therapy friends" for your wonderful support.

I had another session yesterday - I think I am probably nearing the end of my therapy sessions.  I am so pleased I stopped the antidepressants.  I think it must have been the right time, this time round. I really am so much more relaxed, less anxious and definitely more present.
It's a very novel experience, and I am so pleased that you are having some positive experiences as well,  Hope.

Thank you so much for your kind wishes, Eyesofblue. I am keeping everything crossed that your support restarts as soon as possible. I know that alcohol is something you worry about.  I have found that my desire for alcohol has been much greater whilst I have been taking duloxetine. Reading around the subject, it seems that certain antidepressants do increase alcohol cravings.  I will be interested to see if I start to feel any different as the drug leaves my system. It does seem worth considering, maybe.

Driving my son to a job interview now. I really think that he has cptsd traits, from learning difficulties,  school bullying and having an autistic twin. I am actually quite in awe of his ability to keep on trying.  It would be great if he got this new job.

Hugs to you all.

Libby.

Welcome to OOTS, Alias.

Many of us, myself included,  will relate to what you have described of your upbringing.  For me, the emotional abuse has had a much more profound effect than the physical abuse.

I have found this forum very supportive and very helpful and am making good progress now in dealing with adverse childhood experience.  Others here will,  I am sure, relate to the trauma of abusive relationships. 

I am sorry that you have had such stressful experiences, but pleased that you have found us.

Libby.

Hi, Karbon.

The game you describe feels very, very familiar to me. Like you, I could never win. My nm would rarely call me, and would never call if we had had a disagreement.  Our game was that we counted the days, weeks, months like you describe,  then I gave in and she was confirmed as victor.

Eventually,  I realised what a horrible game this was and didn't call. Six years on, and I still haven't called.  My enabling father last called about two years ago. I have stopped playing and I suppose they have too. We have all lost,  but I strongly suspect that my parents see it as a win for them.

Like you, I crashed so low that I couldn't play any more. No contact (silent treatment,  in their view) was the only thing that saved me.

I hope you can find a solution that works for you. It's a horrible game, and so pointless.

Take care

Libby.

Oh, Eyesofblue. I am so very sorry to hear that you are going through such a tough time at the moment.  I know how much you were dreading this ridiculous break in therapy.   

I do know exactly what you mean about the thoughts that just pop into your head for no reason.  Despite doing well at the moment,  they are still there for me too. Our lack of self worth is so deep seated, isn't it?  One thing I am sure of is that you are a very valuable person.  I can say that with absolute certainty, based on all of the support you have given me.

It's so hard to know how to get through the days sometimes,  and I can really understand the need to turn to alcohol. I would say, keep safe, obviously,  but don't beat yourself up about the need to drink. It seems understandable when you are feeling sort of abandoned,  without therapy.  Sometimes, I find giving myself permission to do something leads to a lessened drive to do it. I think it must be about taking some control,  when we don't feel that we have any control.

I just want to say, look after yourself, think kindly of yourself and know that we are all here to support you through this waiting phase.  You are much loved and very valued here.

Take care and many hugs.

Libby.

It's so lovely of you to let us share your joy and happiness.  You are a great example of living in and for the moment.

Hugs, Libby.

Thank you,  Decimal Rocket.  You are right. I do feel more alive.  I have realised that since my last emdr session,  I have been much more present in my life.  It took me a while to pinpoint it, because it was so new.  I achieved quite a lot of practical things, but instead of pushing myself to get them done, so that I could move on to.... something else that needed doing,  I was absorbed in the current task,  without being overwhelmed about the next and the next. I got things done, without being so drained.  And this was inspite of variable pains and the brain zaps from drug withdrawal.

It's my next therapy session tomorrow and I really want to come up with a memory that encompasses the abandonment,  combined with the push /pull nature of my relationship with my mother.  There must be one that fits with the emdr protocol.  That's my task for today.

Best wishes to you all. Your support means the world. It really does.