Trauma Competitor *trigger warning*

[OrinIncandenza]

I've just been triggered a bit by a conversation with my sister who struggles with some of the same things but in a demonstrably less extreme way. She asked if she should be worried about me and I responded with some of the recent optimism I've developed as a result of uncovering my emotional abuse and finding CPTSD and this forum. She responded that she'd been through it all before and intimated that I shouldn't get my hopes up. This is her typical behavior: no one suffers worse than her and I certainly never could. Moreover, she's experienced IT ALL before and is an expert on MY emotions. She's only 18 months older.

She and I have grown closer over the last couple of years as a result of our similar struggles but every time I see her she finds a way to get a dig in, some of which are things my more chronic and violent abusers have said. These include questioning my sexuality despite repeatedly stating my interest in women. At Thanksgiving it was "my life is more interesting than yours".

I've been debating what I should do with her as she's the least problematic family member I have but is still clearly a periodic abuser and some of her behavior still triggers me. She just responded asking me not to get too sensitive, which I believe is a standard strategy to make me feel shame about expressing my feelings. 

Can anyone shed some light on this relationship and what is typically seen as best practice? Is this the type of situation I should try to work through or is this a case where a period of no contact would be best while I attempt to recover a bit more. I'd hate to lose this new intimacy but I guess if it's a damaging intimacy then maybe it's for the best.

[M.R.]

I'm sorry Orin, I don't have any advice. I'm not close enough to anyone to where they would know exactly what I go through.  :/ But it sounds like it would be hard to deal with and I hope others here might be able to give you some information that will help with your situation.

MR

[OrinIncandenza]

Thanks MelodieRose, it's not that she knows what I'm feeling but thinks she does. I think she uses that sense to diminish my feelings. Kind of like that, " Oh I've felt that AND worse. That's really no big deal." Kind of a way to downplay what I'm experiencing while shifting the focus to her and insisting on the greater severity of her issues. Growing up she was the golden child but has shifted to the jester role in recent years.

[Three Roses]

I tried and tried yesterday to respond to this. But i couldn't find the words.

Thus is one of the most maddening responses we can get, imo. It's just another way that others invalidate and minimize our pain! Ranks right up there with "It would go away if you stopped thinking about it."

I can't say whether you should adjust your contact level with her or not. I can only say, I limit the time I spend with others who drain me, and if possible I cut contact with them if I have issues with things they say to me, but they won't work with me to resolve it.

[OrinIncandenza]

I tried and tried yesterday to respond to this. But i couldn't find the words.

Thus is one of the most maddening responses we can get, imo. It's just another way that others invalidate and minimize our pain! Ranks right up there with "It would go away if you stopped thinking about it."

I can't say whether you should adjust your contact level with her or not. I can only say, I limit the time I spend with others who drain me, and if possible I cut contact with them if I have issues with things they say to me, but they won't work with me to resolve it.

Thanks Three Roses, that's good advice. I think in the main she's somebody who can be a valuable presence in my life and is therefore worth maintaining contact with. I do think I need to address the belittling comments though if not her perception of her illness because her belittling comments are performative in the sense that she only says it in front of other family members, which I think she does because she knows from watching my brother do it for years that she'll receive social reward from my father as a result.

I can certainly see from reading other accounts and analyzing my own family why many choose to end contact with family altogether. It's almost impossible to disentangle any one member from the abuse and its effects, even those who have just as badly been damaged by it.

[Dee]

I have a difficult relationship with my sister.  I have had to distance her, but I still maintain contact.  I remember when we do talk that she has done nothing to try to get help.  I am the one working hard in therapy and doing what it takes.  So I am increasingly able to dismiss what comes out of her mouth.  The healthier option would be to go NC, but I can't let go of my sister.

[OrinIncandenza]

Well she and I have been talking quite a bit over the last few days and she started out very positive and encouraging, even though I couldn't agree with much of her perspective on this stuff since she was basically slowly reinforcing the primacy of my abusers and the need on my part to try to show them sympathy. She even introduced some things I had said to her as evidence that I participated in abuse of her, and I agreed and apologized and asked that she apologize for having attempted to out me and mock my masculinity as a way to win favor with my father. Instead of showing me the respect I showed her and apologizing, she denied any of it ever happened and said it was a "mind trick" I was experiencing. I told her to not contact me again. I'm crushed.

[Three Roses]

I'm so sorry. Words fail me, I can offer you my deepest sympathy tho, as one who has also had to cut contact with a sibling. 

[OrinIncandenza]

Thank you Three Roses. I'm still stunned that she decided to go that route. I thought I could have that conversation and we could return to being supportive but I guess not. I'm going full NC with all family for the new year. I'm not sure for how long but I had questioned whether I would include her or not but now I don't have to decide. She'll probably defect and start telling my family all of the things I've shared with her so I'd guess they'll be angry at me anyway. Still, I'm feeling better in general for confronting these things whatever the outcome. Thank you all for your support! It means a great deal to me.

[Badmemories]

I've just been triggered a bit by a conversation with my sister who struggles with some of the same things but in a demonstrably less extreme way. (1)She asked if she should be worried about me and I responded with some of the recent optimism I've developed as a result of uncovering my emotional abuse and finding CPTSD and this forum. (2) She responded that she'd been through it all before and intimated that I shouldn't get my hopes up. This is her typical behavior: (3) no one suffers worse than her and I certainly never could. Moreover, (4)she's experienced IT ALL before and is an expert on MY emotions. She's only 18 months older.

She and I have grown closer over the last couple of years as a result of our similar struggles but every time I see her she finds a way to get a dig in, some of which are things my more chronic and violent abusers have said. These include questioning my sexuality despite repeatedly stating my interest in women. At Thanksgiving, it was "my life is more interesting than yours".

I've been debating what I should do with her as she's the least problematic family member I have but is still clearly a periodic abuser and some of her behavior still triggers me. She just responded asking me not to get too sensitive, which I believe is a standard strategy to make me feel shame about expressing my feelings. 

Can anyone shed some light on this relationship and what is typically seen as best practice? Is this the type of situation I should try to work through or is this a case where a period of no contact would be best while I attempt to recover a bit more. I'd hate to lose this new intimacy but I guess if it's a damaging intimacy then maybe it's for the best.

I have been thinking about Your post since yesterday. Actually, I have been thinking and asking Myself some of the same questions.  I don't want to appear to be more than a seeker of knowledge and No expert but this is My humble opinion.

I have gone over a youtube talk about Narcissists or Toxic People around us. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJbIfLRme90

(sorry Kizzy I always did have a problem doing links! LOL)
I copied the transcript and made it into the file below. (it was many hours of work to get it in a readable form.) I might have added/changed a few things to make it readable. I used Open Office to do this work.
Even though I have proofread it many times I still have mistakes.

I think Many of the things You mentioned are included. Go Over the list/listen to the Video. (the guy that reads it has a computer voice it is very informative though.

What I have been looking at and working on with My Sister.

• I am Not telling her anything in confidence anymore. Toxic People want You to trust them and then they use what You say in Confidence to turn around and Hurt You. They use Your feelings/confidences to create believable gossip, They use it to play mental games on You. They use it to manipulate Your relationships with other people.
• I am working on things to say when she makes some of the statements she does (see # 17) I am standing up for My self. (covert putdowns) Sometimes I ask a Question in response. "Why would You say that?" for example. With My husband when he does this I agree with him. "OH Yes, I am such a _____." that does seem to knock them off guard.
• I am looking at the cycles of the different games. They feel like they are losing grip on You and the games begin. It is sad that I have to study these Toxic people in order to understand How I am/have been affected by it. Be aware of when the MASK comes off. Look for that and YOU will see the manipulations that toxic people try and work on You. 
• They are grandiose and Anything You say will be ONE-UPPED by them. I had it so much worse. In MY family I was the scapegoat, so other siblings either will not admit the truth of the abuse, did not get treated as bad as You did, or were too Young to remember or have it buried.  I does NO good to discuss the abuse with people that have no understanding. 
•   Remember Families don't want us to heal. 

I think You are doing a good job at recognizing and listening when things don't seem right Good for YOU!  

[Sceal]

From your first post you write that according to your sister she's been through it all too ( PTSD and self-help forums) and that she believes she's an expert on the emotions that comes with PTSD and trauma - and in turn your emotions.  Does that mean that she too have been abused? Is her behaviour towards you (and perhaps others) a self-defence mechanism to protect herself?
Could it be her way of dealing with her own trauma?
I don't mean to say that her behaviour is Ok, it's not. It's unkind and awful to undermine someone elses pain and suffering. (It really isn't a competition)  I've just found that for me, the first step to dealing with complicated matters is to understand them.

As far as what you could do with it, I suspect you first have to decide for yourself how much contact you want to have with her, and what kind of relationship you do want to have with her. If you want to keep her close, I suspect an open conversation or several about this topic might be needed. In DBT there's a "guideline" for a manuscript you can write and prepare yourself beforehand taking up such a conversation so that you are sure you're conveying the message you need to say.
If it's interessting to you, you can find the worksheet here:  https://www.therapistaid.com/therapy-worksheet/dbt-interpersonal-effectiveness-skills/dbt/none

P.S I hope I didn't offend, or step on anyones toes! That wasn't my intent. I am just having a hard time voicing my thoughts on this subject today. Because it's such a truly difficult one!