My mom holding me in emotional gridlock - TW suicide ideation

[PeTe]

The first time I remember my mother talking about ending her life, I was 3-4 y.o. She did it in front of the family, and while I can understand my older brother saying nothing, I don't understand why my father said nothing. I ended up comforting my mother. This pattern has in many ways continued. When I try to set some boundaries, she will try to push me emotionally, and she will always end up crying and I worrying about her well-being. After I became an adult my father told me that my mother tried to commit suicide once, before they had kids. I don't think this is a well thought out scheme of hers, but she applies it and I think she truly feels bad. Somehow, I think she blames others 100 % for how they make her feel.

A week ago, after chatting ont he phone for a little while, my mother asked how I'm doing, and I said I didn't want to talk about it (like, just that day). She starts crying, saying she's my mother, implying I should tell her everything, and how hard it is for her while her voice breaks. It's amazing that she doesn't allow me to set boundaries. Still, I didn't want to talk. So we hang up. I messaged her that I don't say it to make her sad, and she thanked me. Today I sent her a message, which she hasn't replied to, which I can only interpret as her having another emotional breakdown. In a little while, we're off to eat dinner at a restaurant, my stepfather's joining as well. So, I'm basically preparing to stand my ground again, as she's never really respected my boundaries.

This whole thing brings up a lot of feelings. I'm activated - being unfocused and having too much negative feelings that I'm able to handle them well. Today, I sometimes feel sick to my stomach, perhaps from worry and the daunting responsibility I feel. I have the urge to drink, to self-medicate my feelings, but also in a way do me harm. Which brings me over to the fact that I'm angry at her (which I mostly feel in my jaw) for leaving no space for me.

On a meta level, I think I'm handling these feelings better than I've often done. At the same time, the strength of my feelings tell me that this is a theme that's more important than I've allowed myself to realise before - partly blaming it on other traumatic events. I think it's a good thing to stand up for myself, but still, the thought of my mother spinning out of control and into suicide ideation or action is a terrible prospect. I have a hard time showing myself compassion in this mode, probably because of the possible consequences.

[Three Roses]

Let us know how your get together goes, you're cared for here. Feeling under the weather or I'd say more. Hugs if you want them.

[PeTe]

Thanks! Going off now, so nice to get a kind reply before that 

[sanmagic7]

pete,  unfortunately, to my mind, this is a manipulation used to get us to do what they want rather than what we want. 

i'm very sorry you've experienced this from such a young age, had it ingrained in you for most all your life.  you absolutely have a right to your boundaries, no matter what anyone says.  using suicide as a damocles' sword is terrible. 

these are just my thoughts, my opinions.  i don't mean to be harsh - i just know how much suffering goes on when someone believes they have to deny what feels right for themselves because someone else has issues that they're not resolving.  it's just a shame, and my heart is with you.  this kind of stuff is so hard.

i hope it goes well for you tonite.   sending a hug filled with warmth and love.

[Blueberry]

On a meta level, I think I'm handling these feelings better than I've often done. At the same time, the strength of my feelings tell me that this is a theme that's more important than I've allowed myself to realise before - partly blaming it on other traumatic events. I think it's a good thing to stand up for myself, but still, the thought of my mother spinning out of control and into suicide ideation or action is a terrible prospect. I have a hard time showing myself compassion in this mode, probably because of the possible consequences.

Yes, it certainly looks as if you're making progress. Good on you for setting boundaries even though your M doesn't want that 

I'm still learning to set M and in fact the whole of FOO boundaries. It's scary and really difficult, even though suicide ideation isn't even on the cards. So I'm sending you lots of compassion! Can't give compassion to myself so well either.

I'm so sorry that M expressed suicide ideation when you were a small child. What was she thinking?? And F didn't comment or try and protect you and your B from this?? 

[Blueberry]

i just know how much suffering goes on when someone believes they have to deny what feels right for themselves because someone else has issues that they're not resolving. 

[PeTe]

Sanmagic, in effect it's a manipulation, and I think it's been really detrimental to my development. I've many times felt betrayed/angry/annoyed/baffled/intellectually confounded - depending on my level of dissociation - that she doesn't seek out help. Your thoughts really resonate with me. Her problems really affect her life and the lives of people around her. And you're right it's not a solution to hide myself. I sense that you're familiar with this, so I just want to say I hope you're doing some progress in living more on your own terms 

Thanks for cheering me on, Blueberry  The feeling I got from reading that just makes me realise the extent that noone who knows both my mom and me have ever appreciated me for setting boundaries - because they then have to deal with my mom. I'm not sure what either my mother or father was thinking  Good for you, that you're setting boundaries, too! It's hard to show compassion to oneself. I find it helps to think of the reasons why I'm feeling, thinking and acting the way I do now. I hope you can find compassion in yourself, and at least know that you have compassion from me 

Strangely enough, though, she behaved normally during dinner. She will bring it up the next time we meet alone, I guess. Anyway, it's fascinating how hard this hits me, and it says something about the emotional reality I live in. I might be holding back more than I need to, but on the other side, it's taken less before. It also gets a bit twisted, because not hurting her feels like protecting both her and me... I also know that not setting boundaries makes me feel bad. It's a hard route to take.

[sanmagic7]

you're right, pete, i've had a lot of experience with this type of thing via my oldest daughter.  30+ yrs. of it.  i ended it when i went nc with her.  i broke my heart, but saved my life.  funny that you could sense this cuz it wasn't in my mind at all when i wrote to you,

it is detrimental to our lives, which is why i say it's abuse, one of the nastiest forms, to my mind.  hanging her life over me, well, that's just not right.  still, i sucked into it until i was able to get the strength up to stop my participation in it.  while she was growing up, our entire family revolved around her, and i was on hyper alert all the time.  it doesn't do a lot of good for either the emotional or the physical system.  i see it as a form of torture.

this is one of the hardest routes to maneuver, pete, and i do so hope you can find your way out of it.  i'm glad she was tolerable during dinner, and i hope you can protect yourself from this in the future.  my very best to you.  a warm hug full of compassion and love to you.

[PeTe]

What you wrote rang true, Sanmagic, and you formulated yourself very well, so I thought this is something you've given extensive thought to. Now that you write this, I see what  a long and tough process you must have been through. It's such a predicament, huh. It makes me sad to think of how hard it must've been for you, so big 

I say it's abuse because I feel like being held hostage. I totally get what you say about the emotional and physical system - it's hardwired in some bad ways. The most prominent thing for me, though, probably since I experienced it since childhood, is the arrest in identity development. I'm thinking I'm a bit stuck as a baby that doesn't know where he or the parents start and end. Am I doing or feeling things because they're my feelings or because my mother hijacked them? What would I feel if I'd had a normal upbringing, if I didn't so easily put others' feelings above mine, if I didn't hide so many feelings from others and myself?

I'm not sure what to do - stand up for myself, reduce contact or no contact, but that's a discussion for my therapist. Weighing paths of action is a lot harder if suicide is a possible outcome. She did have a suicide attempt before they had us, and for good and for bad her life revolves around me and my brother. I hate feeling trapped, this way! More as a side note, I'm sure that if I started to assert myself or went no contact, most my relatives would start pressuring me back into the fold.

Thanks for your understanding and compassion, Sanmagic. It feels like some of it seeped through.

[sanmagic7]

being held hostage - that's exactly how it felt to me all those years.  trapped. 

my d had many mental health diagnoses from the time she was 7.  i felt trapped cuz i was the mom, and it was my duty to take care of her, no matter what.  she was extremely abusive to me from a very young age, but i believed i had to stick it out cuz she was my sick child, and her actions and words were blamed on the illness.

trapped.  this is ongoing trauma all by itself.   it's why you feel traumatized as well, pete.

i'm glad you're going to discuss this with your t.  the one thing i do know is that if someone really wants to commit suicide, they will find a way.  there is nothing we can do to prevent it, nothing for us to feel guilty about, and it's definitely not our fault.  it's a choice the other person makes.

using it to hang over someone's head in order to get them to do something, to stay with them, to keep them close, to continue taking their abuse is cruel.   yeah, of course having this kind of thing running thru your childhood is going to mess with your mind.  i do believe, tho, that as you continue in recovery, you'll discover what parts of thinking and doing are yours and which don't belong to you at all.

just a ballpark guess, i'd think that anything that is hurtful or not beneficial to you, whether it's action, thought, or feeling, does not belong to you, but was implanted thru such torture that you've gone thru.   please, be patient with yourself.  i have no doubt that as you continue working toward finding yourself, you'll get there and things will begin to make more sense.

my heart is with you on this, pete.  sending you a hug filled with determination, courage and love.

[PeTe]

Thank you for your caring and your reflections, sanmagic.

In a way I agree with what you write about suicide. However, I don't think it'd be that easy in reality, if it were to happen, to absolve myself from feelings of guilt. A lot of people who know someone who commits suicide are plagued by guilt, even though you can objectively say it's each person's decision and it's impossible to babysit someone 24/7 to keep them from harming themselves. So I imagine I'm going to feel more or less trapped for a good while, unfortunately.

I'm really not looking forward to Christmas now, but I'm sure I can find ways to make it tolerable. Also, with the rest of the family gathered, it's always easier on me.

[BlancaLap]

That sound horrible! I can barely imagine how that feels.
Glad to hear that you're making boundaries. Hope you don't have to deal with your mother more (except if you want to).

[PeTe]

Thanks for the empathy, BlancaLap. I won't cut contact for now, but instead I'll try to be clear on my boundaries when she oversteps them. Not sure it will go so smooth.