Thoughts, feedback? I am doubting myself too much.

[barbidoll]

So I typed this out yesterday. Since then my son's father tried to call me twice and I refused to answer. I had told him last December I would no longer take calls after he said he was going to kill me. I refuse to put myself in that position again. Since I typed this out I am worried I handled this wrong. I am worried how my son's father might use any of this against me with him.   I am worried. I did not sleep well last night because just him calling got my heart beating hard, made me feel nauseous and started that fear of what if something bad is happening or will happen if I don't take that call.  So I guess anyone have any feedback for me or words of support? I realized yesterday how much my trust in myself has been damaged when my nearly 23 year old confirmed for me that her brother's father's version of events was not accurate. Even though at first when I was told what he said I thought no but then I started to worry I was wrong.
So I have been trying to figure out how to set a boundary for my son asking his father for things and his Dad just showing up but I hadn't quite figured it out yet. On Thursday my son's father emails me to attack me over our son's requests for food two nights this week. I responded back that on one night he had eaten and refused the other food I made. The other night we had actually had been on the way to the store to buy food when my son did it. I pointed out our son was being picky and basically being a kid. I asked him not to bring food anymore and told him about how I was trying to encourage our son to eat healthier since he has expressed distress over his weight. His Dad's response was to question that he didn't eat the food HE brought him. I responded back that it doesn't matter what he refused. That he is doing it and we need to tell him no sometimes. I kept stressing that he is just being a kid so he doesn't take his anger out on our son. I said we just need to teach him better habits.
Anyway not sure why I thought he would honor my request but yes I heal that delusion until the next morning when I got his next email. He will bring our son food whenever he wants. He has no idea what goes on in my house. He makes claims that imply that I am causing our son's depression. Brings up the lady who recently lost custody of her son over vaccines to scare me. Oh and says he will be moving back to Colorado in a few years because he doesn't want our son's custody case transferred to Texas. He told me I need to get a lawyer in Colorado. That email ends and I get another on him attacking me about welfare. Then another where he say our son thinks his body is changing(puberty) and he says thanks for speeding it up. I have ruined our son's innocence for telling him about Santa at nearly ten years old. Attacks me over our son sharing a room with his younger brother even though my son doesn't like to sleep in the upstairs bedroom on his own. Says something about several CPS notifications.
At this point I sent an email back stating that his refusal to respect me is noted. I pointed out that 50/50 is not him threatening and verbally and psychologucally abusing me to get his way. That I don't know how to communicate with him of he refuses to listen to me. I pointed out that me taking our son to a hospital recently when he was talking about hurting himself was an emergency(He claims I needed tp wait until I saw him with a knife in his hand). I ended the email with requesting him show respect for my relationship with our son and pointed out that it is confusing to him when his Dad openly shows hostility towards me.
Hos response to me calling his behavior abusive was, "Are you kidding me?" There are five more emails after that. He claims again I needed to wait for our son to have a knife in his hand to consider it an emergency. He says my reign is over and I am going to have to pay him child support. Oh he says stuff about getting a job. Says he gave me a choice. Somewhere in all that craziness was something about the email and I though is he is threatening me on refusing to communicate with him any other way?
So when my son got home that afternoon he calls his Dad to get him for the weekend. I happen to overhear Dad tell him that he os keeping him until Tuesday. This is not something that was even brought up to me
until I hear his Dad say it on the phone. I was stunned and I said that Dad needed to email me about this because it worries me that he seems to think he doesn't need to even consult me about this. What if he just decides not to bring him home one day? Dad says email is not happening anymore. It's not working. I am quiet at this point because I am trying to figure out how the heck do I handle this? My son's Dad says something to him and my son says, "But mom hasn't answered yet." Dad says, " I don't care!" At this point I am like whatever to avoid a fight and his Dad showing even more outright disrespect to me to our son. Not that I believe he won't while he has him in his care but I didn't want to argue with his Dad in front of him. So now he has my son until Tuesday. Court order says he is two have two overnights a week and 8 one week visits a year. Court order also says we are supposed to work together which seems like a joke. I am nothing to this man but a target for his anger. He isn't going to work with me and if I push back he can make it worse for me and our son.
I need to go to the Domestic Violence Shelter this week. This is all spinning around in my head and I am scared of how far this man will go. I want to believe that he genuinely loves our son but right now it very much feels like he is a tool or a possession to him. I definitely do not think working with this man is possible. I feel like the court order is nothing more than a tool for him to continue his abuse of me. Tired and helpless right now and I don't know where to turn. I want to laugh at the absurdity of being accused of accelerating our son going through puberty but it's not so funny when I am this close to it.

[Three Roses]

You are absolutely doing all the right things! You were right to take your son in when you did - when he's got a knife in his hand it is too late!! He needs help, to avoid that scenario altogether.

Despite his disregard and disrespect, he still has to observe court orders. Do you have a lawyer? Maybe domestic violence shelter would have some ideas of some sort of victim's advocacy that can help you all. Standing with you in spirit! I think your instincts and desires are spot on.

[barbidoll]

Thank you Three Roses. I am doubting myself so much. It is so hard because I used to be more confident in my parenting abilities. I have a 23 year old who has a job and is in college yet I am still afraid of making the wrong decison.
  I don't think his father cares about the court order in any other way but to hurt me and control me. One example he got them to put in about our son having his own room(He was a toddler when this was going on). My attorney made sure to carefully word it about economic situations. Here is the thing. I am sure that he has not always had a room for him. In fact, this could be the first time he has had a room for him but it is something he uses to threaten and berate me. He is not supposed to drink before or during visits and I know he does that. He is not supposed to harass me either but he does. He has taken him on an out of state trip without giving me details about that trip. I was looking at the court order the other day and realized I could have kept my son memorial day weekend which is the weekend our pool opened at our apartments. 
   I am also really afraid of setting some boundaries here because I think he might be triangulating me and my son. I am afraid my son will just see me as being mean because he does not seem to see his Dad's anger at me as abnormal or excessive. He also seems to think at times that I am the only target of that anger. 
  Weird enough my son texted me from his Dad's this morning saying his phone is missing. I texted back asking how and when. His Dad then texted back that he doesn't know and then said something about him having a sleep over. I am highly suspicious of this it just seems to conincidental that the weekend he says he isn't doing email anymore and that my son's phone is missing suddenly. Waiting to see if Dad gets him a new one or lets that stand so my only way of contacting our son while with him is through him.

[Three Roses]

Suspicious, for sure!

[barbidoll]

Thank you! I was feeling a bit guilty for being suspicious but I keep thinking about the ways in the past that he has tried to get around this boundary. He used to tell me we needed to get together to discuss his job situation, one time I remember he alluded to spending Christmas in my home making it about our son waking up on Christmas. You know I can't remember when I let my guard down on this and convinced myself he was behaving better because he never was.  Oh when he was homeless he was sleeping in his truck in the parking lot of my apartments which creeped me out so badly. 
   I am going to try and see what help I can get this week.  I am so exhausted and lost on how to handle all of this. I feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place.  The doubting myself does not help either.   

[barbidoll]

So I am going to put this down here because it keeps going through my head with my fears of what my son's father is capable of.  So when I got together with his father I had two girls.   My youngest girl was around one. When we were first together he treated her like he REALLY wanted to be her father. He spent time with her and spent money on her. He would take her places while I was at work.  Up until we moved to another state with him it seemed he was going to a good father figure for her. Then we moved.  He started punishing her excessively. Like at one point ge had her sitting in her room with no toys and her dresser was in the closet so she couldn't get that stuff. She was about four or five. One time I was trying to teach her and make it fun and he came in a took over grading her work on a scale of 0-100.  Anyway there is this one incident that when I think about I feel such shame and nauseous over it. This guy will buy you stuff or spend money on you and make you feel guilty or talk bad about what he bought you. So this one time my daughter said she wanted to go visit the neighbors. From what I could tell he took it as her wanting to live there although I am unsure how he made that jump in reasoning. He starts telling her that she can leave but she can't take anything with her. She can't take her toys or clothes. She can't take anything because HE bought it for her.  It culminated with him having her downstairs by the front door naked and him telling her she could leave like that. I remember being so horrified by this and not knowing what to do.  I think about this and I wonder could he do the same to our son?  I am not even sure what kind of abuse to label it as but it seems so wrong and evil. I am so scared of what he could do to our son and that my son might now realize how abnormal it is.  I keep replaying this incident in my head. God! I hate that my daughter's experienced any of this. 

[Andyman73]

Barbidoll,

Please understand that this is way beyond you. He is an extremely manipulative N! He is the essential abusive man. If you haven't, maybe check out Lundy Bancroft's book "why does he do that". Lundy has been counseling abusive men for several decades now.

You really need to talk to DV counselor, because son's dad is abusing you mentally and emotionally, and is using son as a pawn against you...which is abusing son as well. I hope you've saved every email and text message he ever sent you. I would recommend talking to someone in the legal system about all this. Since you have a court order, and he is violating it nearly every time he contacts you...you have to start protecting yourself and getting the court system involved.

As for paying him child support....that's a huge stretch. You have primary physical custody...so...you shouldn't have to pay him one red cent. Taking son's cell phone is a controlling measure, therefor is abusing your son mentally and emotionally. And the whole thing with your little baby girl...broke my heart and made me cry....what an ugly monster. I am so glad you're free of him, in your own home.

I reallly really hope someone at the DV shelter can give you the guidance and "weapons"(knowledge) to arm and protect yourself and your son.

I'm sitting with you on this.

[ah]

I agree with every word Andyman wrote.

Also I want to add from personal experience, psychological abuse is such an insidious weapon because it goes on under the radar... it can really make you feel like you're going crazy, and getting you to doubt is the key. You doubt your truth, you doubt your values, yourself, your sanity. This is exactly what psychological abusers want. They go after you, make sure you'll seem crazy if you ask for help or complain about it, make you doubt yourself, then they sit back and enjoy the show they've created. I know how crazy making it can be, and how painful it is. This must be terrible for you, like a daily nightmare you keep wanting to wake up from but can't. I'm so so sorry you have to go through this.

And yeah, what Three Roses and Andyman said.

[Andyman73]

Future axw does it to me all the time, gaslighting me, using my poor memory against me. If it weren't for the kids sticking up for me, sometimes.....I'd really be in trouble. She say she told me something, in earshot of the kids, then get mad when I don't even know what she's talking about, kids say Mom, you never said that, then she gets mad at them...that's how I know kids are telling the truth.. she gets mad at them for sticking up for me.   Then I have to step in and deflect her anger off them and onto me...so they don't have to get her crap.
She has most people believing that I'm some screwed up Veteran with PTSD and mental illness. But not like I'm sick and poor poor her, but like I'm the root of all her problems and I'm such a donkey butt, and I ruined her life. Even her own mom believes her.  Lots of other stuff too...won't get into atm.

Sitting with you.

[barbidoll]

Andyman73,
  Isn't it just surreal when someone like that tries to convince others you are the bad one?  Like my daughter's father whose favorite trick is calling CPS on me. Oh yeah a little birdy told me he has done it to his own wife too.   I had that pulled on me again last week. Apparently my 15 year old is babysitting which is bad because of her mental health. This is a lie and not very original since they have done it before. Still never fails to stress me out and get my heart racing.  I found out on Friday and I have noticed everytime I stop doing stuff I can feel the pounding of my heart and being on edge. 
  Full confession: I am a little worried I won't be able to get people to believe me since I have two controlling and abusive exes still at work on me.   I have decided that if I can't make it to the domestic violence center before the Thanksgiving Break that I will go during that week. Yes I do have lots of emails, texts and voicemails saved from my son's father. I wish I had more on my daughter's father. He seems to be controlled enough to know when to behave. Well for the mpst partm He did get the cops called on him when he made a scene while our daughter was in the hospital.  He left though before they got there and the hospital happened to be just over the state line.  I wish I had recorded the time he threatened to call CPS because he didn't want to pay more child support. I called him out on past times and he admitted it. Oh yeah and I do have a call list from the police department of multiple domestic calls to his house.  Oh wait I do have a message where he says his wife was going to drunk call anf harass our daughter. The thing is  this one is a bit better at playing the victim than my son's father and he does have a pretty good scapegoat in his wife.  She is an alcoholic with a temper so he can deflect to her. I kind of wonder if they are both narcissists? What I do know is had the behavior of a narcissist before he met her. I even asked a former boss who knew him before I did and he said he doesn't care who he steps on to get what he wants.
  Anyway I am exhausted and really sick of constantly feeling my heart is going to pound out of my chest so I will be going to that center as soon as I am able.  I have hid how anxious the CPS visit made me all weekend from my kids.  Although I do feel a little bit of pride because I did let the worker know right away who it was and pointed out how they have been using CPS like this on me for years.  Usually I just meekly let them in and just start answering their questions but something made me speak up this time. She actually said she wanted to close it before coming out because it seemed suspicious.
  Anyway on my son's father he went out of town and didn't let me know he would not be picking our son up for the weekend.  I enjoyed having him home. One day his Dad was texting him and got anxious I guess because he didn't answer. When he called him he asked if he was still in our city. My son did not get this but I have emails where he pulls something similar on me more than once. He starts accusing me of taking our son out of the city or state when he doesn't get a response when he thinks he should. My son explained we had been busy. My son was not happy that Dad said something about doubting Mom is busy. 
   I am probably rambling as a result of not having internet access this weekend and being stuck in my head. Please forgive the messiness of my brain.
   

[Andyman73]

Barbidoll,

You may call me Andy or Andrew. I'm so very sorry about your exes. This kind of stuff really bugs me....especially as a man.

Can you call the DV shelter and talk with them, till you can get time to go? I found it so much easier to go, after having talked with them on the phone a few times.
Hey, get this...the lady that took my initial call there, said I was already in their system!!!! I had called them a few years earlier, and had actually talked to same lady...she entered the call info in the computer herself! I have no recollection of that at all.

You are always welcome to ramble, I always am fine with ramblers! 

[sanmagic7]

barbi, i'm just glad you have a place to get some of this out of your head.  this kind of stuff is crazy-making, and definitely sounds like narcs doing their thing on you.  ramble on, dear, ramble on if it helps.  like was said, this is way beyond you.  you need some help, some professionals in your corner.

can you take your son to the shelter with you?  he is getting abused as well.  do you have to wait?  it would be a safe place for both of you, (and your minor daughter if she's living with you), and they have a lot of resources that could probably be of help to you.  lawyers/legal aid, advocates, people who know the legal system more intimately and can help you negotiate your way through it. 

from everything i've read, you have no reason to doubt yourself.  the manipulations, the mental and emotional abuse that's going on from both these men - you are being double-teamed.  it's no wonder you're wondering which side is up and which direction to turn to. 

if nothing else, maybe you can call a shelter for help with this, even if you can't get in yet.  they may be able to help over the phone, or have you come in for a consultation, get all the finer points of this situation down in writing.  a lawyer/legal aid representative could help with all the ways the court order is being abused, and possibly get something different done.  what about the cops?  these threats - perhaps they could help you get started, or smooth the way.

my heart is with you on this.  standing with you as well.  this is * you're going thru, as well as your kids.  it's all wrong in so many ways on so many levels.  sending you a hug filled with support, compassion, and love.   i hope and pray you get some relief soon.

[barbidoll]

Andy,
My kids have a holiday coming up for Thanksgiving so I am going to try and go to the Domestic Violence Center then.  I just need to figure out with my older son because he does not really understand that abuse is going on and I am not sure how to handle it that he doesn't know.  He looks for the best in his Dad even while telling me Dad is angry a lot and Dad growls when they spend money. Not sure how often that growling thing happens but yeah I remember that growl. He has these looks and growls that let you know he is not happy. When I know he is angry I can picture that face even of he is not right there. I have a hard time even looking at him because that face sets me on edge. 
Sanmagic,
When I read your response I felt shaky.  Hearing someone say no wonder you are this way means a lot to me.  I don't think my family even realizes how much damage these men have done to me.  I can't explain the fear, the shame and how when they pull their stuff it leaves me anxious and my head spinning for days. I can't explain how even when it is calm I am waiting for the other shoe to drop.  When my sister consistently reminds me that I can't change these guys it furstrates me. I know I can't but I would like some peace.  I would like to not feel like answering my door is risky business or taking a phone call might be full of judgement. I would like to not feel like making a decision where my kids are concerned could lead to more harassment. I would like to not got to bed at night and feel so much anxiety I can't sleep like last night where it took me hours to settle down enough to sleep despite exhaustion.
  The double teaming is an analogy I have thought of.  The craziest part to me is that I have to worry about the wife of one them because she is just as toxic. I guess sometimes it feels more like triple teaming.  When my daughter's child support was up for review this woman would call and harass me. I remember at one point she said, "My family will remember this!"  I don't take her or her husbands calls anymore. At one point this county attorney suggested that was something that could change and I was like, "Uh uh, no way!"   
  I am going to get down to the domestic violence center hopefully around Thanksgiving week. My kids schedules are all over the place. My youngest goes to a school program that only lasts a few hours so it makes it hard for me to do things on other sides of town since I don't have anyone to help pick kids up.  I need to go.  I need help. I have been trying to deal on my own and it has not been working. 
  Thank you again for the validation. At times I doubt the severity and craziness of my situation.  This week I have been struggling because of CPS showing up at my door on Friday.  I can't even describe how much shame and fear this invoked in me.  Awhile back I was talking to the stepmom of my daughter's stepmom and she said that they didn't want her. I couldn't quite wrap my head around why they would call CPS if they didn't. Well if their sole intent was to harass and make me afraid they have succeeded admirably. Everytime I have a sick kid or a kid falls and hurts themselves I am afraid I will hear from CPS.  Honestly just the thought of losing my kids for any reason is enough to invoke paralyzing fear in me.  Shoot when my littlest was a baby in the hospital with RSV they called CPS. 
   I guess I have been struggling this week and for someone to acknowledge the double teaming is a big deal because at this stage it's all so tangled up together for me. 

 

   
 

[sanmagic7]

barbi, add that wife into the mix, yep, i agree with you on being triple-teamed.  too horrible for words, and my heart goes out to you.

could you call a shelter, explain the situation, ask what they might suggest?  that way you don't have to drive there, but you could still get the information you need.  they may tell you to just pack up your kids and get in there before these people drive you over the wall.   or they may help you keep a plan in place until thanksgiving comes around.  i think they could be a good resource for you in dealing with this.

this is domestic violence at its most insidious, because it leaves no visible marks.   yet you're all getting abused at the most fundamental levels.  you have no shame to bear because of these cps calls.  these people torturing you like this should be ashamed.   

your safety, be it physical, mental, or emotional, is paramount.    you don't have to be dealing with this alone.  let the people who work with these types of situations and have more resources than you help you.  you deserve it.  3 on 1 is never fair, especially since you are concerned about your kids and they're not.  if they were, they'd never put you thru anything like this. 

if you're able, just give them a call, see what they say.  you can figure out what's best for you given the added information and expertise.  standing right beside you, barbi.  there's strength in numbers, and now there's more than just you fighting these people.  sending you a big hug filled with determination and the knowledge that you have nothing to be ashamed of. 

[barbidoll]

Sanmagic,
I have called a couple of times to see if they can help me out and my only answer was to find a way to get down there. It sucks that it is on a different side of town than me.  I live in a fairly decent sized city but it often feels like a small town because finding some services close to home can be a pain in the butt.
  You are right they wouldn't do it if they cared about the kids.  My daughter even put in a letter to her father that she wrote a while back  that she knows  they were calling CPS. Still isn't apparently stopping them.   Heck one of times she came from their house and told me they did it. 
    I think I might prepare a letter before I go so I don't forget anything while I am down there or blank under pressure.  I need all the help I can get.