Can we start an Outer Critic board?

[alovelycreature]

I think I'm having more issues with this than the inner critic! Although I would say that it fluctuates between both.  Anyone else? Noticing how much it causes my social anxiety

http://www.pete-walker.com/pdf/ShrinkingOuterCritic.pdf

[Whobuddy]

Oh my, yes! I have developed the habit of not talking without running things through in my head multiple times so I don't say outer critic things out loud. Even then it happens. No wonder I don't have close friends.

In my FOO about the only way to get a response from M was to bring up a criticism of something or someone. I fear I was groomed to do this.

After the outer critic has time in my head - then the inner critic goes after me for being critical. Aaargh! Help, get me out of this head!

[schrödinger's cat]

I mainly just glare at people without wanting to, because I'm so wary of everyone and everything. Might be good to have a place where we could talk about this.

[alovelycreature]

I have been aware for a while now that I don't like socializing because I'm afraid of other's judging me. I feel this was probably bullying from my FOO and through middle and high school.

I'm just noticing how much it effects my close relationships. I'll think to myself, "She really considers me one of her best friends? She must be saying that to be nice." Or, "My partner must feel obligated to be with me since we moved in and signed a lease together." Even writing it out just sounds completely ridiculous. It actually just makes me feel like an a-hole.

I think I have only one friend who I believe truly loves me unconditionally, and I feel the same way about her. She's also a survivor though so we kind of cling on each other. I feel insanely fortunate for her and don't know what I'd do without her!

Mostly I've noticed it because I know these thoughts/feelings are very unfair to those who care about me, but after reading it in Walker's book... I started to think, "This isn't fair to me!" My parent's instilled this self hate that is so deep that I can't believe that anyone actually likes me? That's pretty f-ed up. Walker is helping me find my anger for sure! It's been making me so angry I have no problem yelling at my inner/outer critic out loud. I've just been saying to myself, "What a-hole from the past wants you to feel that way about yourself!?" Or, when I find myself catastrophizing future conversations I'm going to have I've been saying, "That doesn't even exist! It's dumb to think that!" It's surprising that you really can just stop it in it's tracks.

[keepfighting]

I think I'm having more issues with this than the inner critic! Although I would say that it fluctuates between both.  Anyone else?

Yes, yes and yes!

It does fluctuate but the OCr has the louder and more powerful voice... It would be nice to learn effective ways to silence it.

[schrödinger's cat]

Now, Cat ...I can't "see" you glaring.   Really?   I imagine you watching intently though ....that's much different than glaring.   You are kind; I can't imagine a glare out of you. 

Thanks, Rain.    But I do glare. And how! My husband says it makes me look like I'm behind a barricade watching the world through the sights of a loaded gun. It's really just wariness and caution, but I'm trying to look generally less alarming. It probably makes people feel I'm picturing cross-hairs on their face. That can't be comfortable.

Something I noticed: many Inner Critic feelings have OuterCrit implications. Like this: "No one is going to want to talk to me, I'm boring and incompetent and insignificant." That's the InCrit talking. But if I dig a little into this, I unearth the following thought: "People are only ever out to GAIN things from social contacts - like gaining enjoyment from pleasant chats, or gaining help from a give-and-take relationship of doing each other favours, or gaining self-esteem from acting the Lady Bountiful to the poor peasantry. As soon as I'm less than perfect, they'll drop me like a hot potato. They're selfish, arrogant, shallow, incapable of kindness - just like my classmates and FOO used to be." That's the Outer Critic.

So I'm wondering if InCrit cognitions are linked to OutCrit ones, either in general or just in some cases. If they are, then that might be another reason why we have to fight both Critics, not just one.

[Whobuddy]

I mainly just glare at people without wanting to, because I'm so wary of everyone and everything. Might be good to have a place where we could talk about this.

My first H called it my "death look". I didn't even know I was doing it.

[alovelycreature]

Something I noticed: many Inner Critic feelings have OuterCrit implications. Like this: "No one is going to want to talk to me, I'm boring and incompetent and insignificant." That's the InCrit talking. But if I dig a little into this, I unearth the following thought: "People are only ever out to GAIN things from social contacts - like gaining enjoyment from pleasant chats, or gaining help from a give-and-take relationship of doing each other favours, or gaining self-esteem from acting the Lady Bountiful to the poor peasantry. As soon as I'm less than perfect, they'll drop me like a hot potato. They're selfish, arrogant, shallow, incapable of kindness - just like my classmates and FOO used to be." That's the Outer Critic.

TOTALLY know what you mean. I always feel myself trying to rationalize in the critics favor. It's mostly, "This person knows that I go out of my way to help others and they just want to take advantage of my kindness." Even just practicing saying, "No," to people is incredibly difficult, because they you feel like you're letting them down. This is probably my fawn talking. Sometimes I feel like people just want to know me because I'm weird, and that's somehow cool or exciting. Instead of seeing it as, "Oh this person genuinely is interested in getting to know me better based on my interests, and may be a potential friend." 

It makes it incredibly hard to have friends with this view that all people are just out to abuse. It seems the more important question is, what would make me trust this person? Maybe questioning the critic may be helpful. What would it take for me to see this person as a friend and not someone who wants to "network" or whatever. It's so hard to stop the outer critic in it's tracks because it feels safer to just submit. It's like letting all the hurt and rejection from the past win though. I see why I just rather watch Netflix and take a bath every night! This is very exhausting. Haha.

[schrödinger's cat]

Yes, precisely. The same Critic, but sometimes he focusses on us and sometimes he focusses on the outside world. I'm beginning to think it's simply a self-protective instinct gone haywire. Quite the Greek Tragedy. A bit like this:

Abuse happened. That changed how I saw myself (as normally lovable), how I saw my place in the world (safe), and how I saw other people (friendly and interesting and endlessly fascinating). I mean, how CAN you hold on to those beliefs if suddenly people turn on you? You can't. Plus, there's all this tremendous energy that gets unleashed when we're threatened: like everything within us suddenly mobilizes and screams "MUST FIX THIS". So maybe that's why this Critic is so strong and so virulent - it's got all that energy still within it: "IF I DON'T WARN YOU OF THE EVILS OTHER PEOPLE ARE CAPABLE OF, IT WILL HAPPEN AGAIN, I MUST PREVENT THIS".

[schrödinger's cat]

Thanks, Rain. You give the best pep talks.    I think what you said is a good reason why CBT can be helpful for people like us. It's like a crash course in coming to rational conclusions.

I've something that's a bit like your 4%. It's like this: out of ten things anyone writes, two will be REALLY good and two will be REALLY bad, with the rest being middling. So I decided that everything in life is like that. Out of ten conversations I have, two will be exhilarating and two will be "yikes, what the h*ll did just happen", the rest will be middling. Out of ten people I meet, two will be lovely people and two will serve as warnings to better myself so I won't end up like them. Out of ten mornings, two will be great, two will be "WHY DID I EVER GET UP", and the rest will be middling. Now, I realize that this is not, in fact, the case. Statistics don't quite work like that. I also realize that it's still a little pessimistic. But it's a lot better than the pessimistic expectations I usually have. Because I know the truth of it so deep within my bones - your stories might turn out great or they'll end up dead and lifeless, you never know beforehand, all you can do is put in the time and keep going.

[Butterfly]

Oooo! This is good stuff! Need to take a closer read at some posts and finish reading Walker paper. Need to read more in his book too.

Growing up the message was no one is to be trusted but the family. However, the real light bulb in reading Walkers paper is that my uPDm and enF could not offer safe refuge and emotional safety either. But that didn't stop outside disappointments from reinforcing the message 'see you can't trust outsiders' I mean those were the literal words used, this wasn't a subliminal message, this was the verbal message.

Due to my desire to be the opposite of uPDm, figuring that anything the opposite her is normal, I have the attitude everyone is fine, I have no problem with others, if they do things I don't like they have that choice and I may steer clear to avoid trouble but I don't assume someone is trouble right out the gate, I assume everyone is fine until I learn otherswise. She hates this about me and told me once how stupid (yes she used that word) I am when it comes to people, not like her how well she reads people. (She's a mind and heart reader - she *knows* stuff just by observing people)

Therefore I'm ok with outer circle strangers, people in my mental address book, and have a good amount of acquaintances and even many frequent associates. (I think we're talking circles of intimacy and information here like link below) whereas uPDm criticizes everyone, no one measures up, she's on high alert always.

I've worked hard over the years to cultivate many associates, to enjoy the company of others. There are few in the inner ring of intimacy and T recently told me this is normal and expected, not everyone is going to be a confidant, enjoying others company often and where they know general stuff about your life is normal. This was much to my relief to know I have good friends in the normal sense of the word and the illustration in the link below helped me.

The glare, I know this well, it's shown its ugly face from time to time. This is when my brain is trying to 'compute' the behavior of someone, their outer behavior doesn't match their words. It's shown up when the inner or outer critic was spinning out of control, but always focused on a single individual where their words don't match their action. Thanks for helping me understand 'the glare' and where it comes from.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qCeWVcEAhp4/U5bw-1sx5lI/AAAAAAAAAEc/SXEjS40c5Us/s1600/Circles+of+Community+Intimacy+Diagram.JPG

[wingnut]

I have my own personal inner turmoil where I want to practice more compassion toward others while deep inside I think most people are a holes. I catch myself being critical vs accepting way too often. I know part of it is a defense mechanism and part is learned behavior from a hypercritical mother. Sometimes I hear things spew from me as I point the flaws of others to my spouse and I cringe. That is what I see as the outer critic. A NY resolution. - send that creature packing. I silenced my inner critic years ago. Now I turn it outward. I think Walker states this as a possible progression. Outer takes over as inner remisses.

[alovelycreature]

I have my own personal inner turmoil where I want to practice more compassion toward others while deep inside I think most people are a holes. I catch myself being critical vs accepting way too often. I know part of it is a defense mechanism and part is learned behavior from a hypercritical mother. Sometimes I hear things spew from me as I point the flaws of others to my spouse and I cringe. That is what I see as the outer critic. A NY resolution. - send that creature packing. I silenced my inner critic years ago. Now I turn it outward. I think Walker states this as a possible progression. Outer takes over as inner remisses.

I understand where you're coming from. I feel like practicing compassion towards others has helped me be more compassionate towards myself, and vice versa. I still have judgmental moments, but try to challenge them. There are certain personality types that are big triggers for me to put people into my a-hole category. I think for me thinking about "why" I don't like the other person has helped me navigate my feelings. Some people I don't like because they are not good people or disrespect my boundaries, and some people I don't like because of a personality conflict. I don't blame anyone. We're just different and don't particularly get along. I think this has been helpful from fawning too.

Often I have to say, "This person is triggering me because of they're overly touchy (or whatever). I am bothered by this and others may not be. They're just not someone I want to spend time with and that's okay. I have the right to tell them not to touch me if I so chose."

I grew up with my grandma who was excellent dealing with jerks. If someone would flip her off driving or treat her poorly at the grocery store, she would make comments like, "Oh, they must be in a rush," or, "They must not be having a good day." I will sometimes say these things out loud in the car!

It's all a matter of practice I guess. I was reading something recently about how you view yourself is how you view others, because how we relate to others is how we relate to ourselves. If we are kind, accepting, and tolerant of ourselves, then in theory we would be of others because we have an understanding of these things. I don't know if I stated that clearly--hope it makes sense.

[Butterfly]

Got a chance to reread the Outer Critic and boy it's so much uPDm it's amazing. Unfortunately since she doesn't see the Fight cPTSD then she's PD instead. For a while I went through some lean times as far as friends, fearful of trusting but also feeling so very unworthy, who would want me, and anyone who did uPDm would push them away. More ICr stopping me than OCr but it's good to recognize potential OCr ways.