Phrasing it so a narc will listen...

[LaurelLeaves]

I know that any critical thing said to narc will make him wig out.
But I really want to give CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to him, so I want to phase in a VERY SOFT way.
Is this possible?  I have to try.

This man is hurt, and his hurt was caused by being embarrassed by my behavior. 
Basically what I did was run out of a church at the end of service... basically a panic attack.

But I know that if your embarrassed by SOMEONE ELSES behavior, you consider the person to be an extension of yourself... not a person in their own right.  If he could see me as a person in my own right he would not be so embarrassed.

Also being embarrassed means you're afraid of being JUDGED.  This fear seems to permeate every aspect of his life.

Perhaps someone would has narc-like tendencies would be able to phrase this to another narc.

[Candid]

Others may have better ideas, but my gut feeling is narcs don't listen to anything they don't want to hear, and not only will any criticism not be tolerated, it will also provoke N-rage. Tread warily if this is an important relationship -- and if it isn't, why would you put yourself in the firing line?

[mourningdove]

The only way that I've ever been able to get a narc to even pretend to hear me has been to make them consider that not hearing me will make them look bad to other people. (My M is a covert narc, so I have lots of experience.)

Perhaps someone would has narc-like tendencies would be able to phrase this to another narc.

I don't think this ever happens.

Sorry to hear that you had to leave church because of a panic attack. It seems like you know that the proper response of someone else to that would be concern for your well-being, rather than worry about what other people think about them.

[LaurelLeaves]

Thanks for your responses Candid and mourningdove.

The thought occurred to me that he probably doesn't even know that pain... the embarrassment... comes his childhood abuse, and may that's where I should start.

He has just recently realized the magnitude of his childhood abuse.   He when home for a funeral this past Nov. and saw the abuse up close again.  On the ACES score he has more than me.  And I told him that.

So I wrote an email comparing our two pains... my panic attack and his embarrassment... and said there are both not normal and come from our abuse.  I speculated that the treatment for his pain was to understand the underlying reasons.

That might have been too harsh for a narc... to say that he should treat his pain. 
But we'll see.

[sanmagic7]

best to you with this, laurelleaves.  please be careful - there may be backlash.   my experience echoes that of the others - narcs don't want to hear anything a critical about themselves, and will often justify and/or deny their behavior.  sorry about your panic attack.  i agree with mourningdove that a caring person would be concerned about your well-being first.  hoping it works out well for you.   

[LaurelLeaves]

Yes sanmagic7, there may be backlash.   But I've been with him 22 years and he's never physically hurt me.  And I am aware of how he acts now.  He's very predicable in his arguments.  All I have to be is unemotional about it.  And I am a type who's good at being unemotional... most times.

So far he is not responding.  That could mean he is seething about what I said.  But he knows an emotional attack won't take me out.  So if he's going to respond, it gotta be from a logical place.  That's takes time.   Time enough for him to consider if what I said was true.

He's a covert narc.  I never imagined people were like him until I married him.  But I see now why I married him: to take the place of my parents... to do it right this time. 

[Contessa]

Hi LaurelLeaves

I think I may be late to this, but saw the title of this thread and thought 'that's not possible'.

Hope you are okay xo

[LaurelLeaves]

Hi Contessa,
I'm okay.  He never emailed back.  And right now he's just cordial.
I'm hopeful that he is just borderline instead of NPD, and he can learn to be better.
He has gotten better, and I think he may be realizing that there is actually something wrong with him. 

I'm not just sure if I have the capacity to wait for him anymore. 

[Contessa]

It sounds like you're tired of regulating every behaviour and emotion expressed for the appeasement of another's ego.

Time to focus on you?

[LaurelLeaves]

Yes, I know... 
But the thing is, it's getting easier.  I know I'm getting stronger, but I'm sure it's getting easier because he's getting calmer.    I'm just so exhausted and angry from the  previous years... 

I know... trying to wait for a borderline to learn is kinda like trying to save a person who's drowning.   

Working on my financial independence in case this relationship falls apart.   

[Contessa]

Smart move LaurelLeaves.
Glad you have a plan in place