Does it ever get better? (ASD mom, alcoholic dad, possible triggers)

[annakoen]

Hi all,

I'm new here and feel like I should write up an introduction first, but for some reason I'm struggling. I've rewritten this post over and over, there just aren't enough words to describe what I'm struggling with.

Quite frankly, my story is just .. it's too much. I can't write it all down or it'll be a book. It's been a * growing up with my parents, who were both emotionally dependent on me as a child but never actually *saw* me for me. I've never felt safe, or loved. Nobody realized I'm in the gifted range. Nobody *helped* me as a child, with my anxieties, my sensitivities. I stopped interacting with the world and my social confidence and skills have suffered.

It's been 7+ years in therapy since I first discovered the word 'parentification'. I knew my relationship with my dad wasn't healthy. He always leaned on me for support from age 5 upwards. He's an alcoholic in denial. Told me he'd throw my mother off a mountain on holiday. (Can you imagine what it's like to be disappointed when *both* your parents come back from holiday?) Would tell me about sexual and financial problems from as young as I can remember. He would confide *everything* in me, regardless of whether it was age appropriate. I knew about his mother dying when he was 15 (traumatic for him) when I was around 8. He was afraid of me growing up to become a woman and would tell me I should "hit puberty in your own time", i.e. he didn't want me to reach puberty. When I finally made a (female) friend, he could not cope with that and told me he'd be fine if I was a lesbian, right when I was hitting puberty and got all confused. I thought he meant that I then *should become* a lesbian, because my dad wanted me to. I realized I wasn't a lesbian and at some point got a boyfriend. My dad was jealous, would always be pouting when I went out. He would never say these things, instead he would get drunk and tell them to my mother, who would then tell me, with a weird expression on her face.

It's only since last year that I realized my mother has autism. She just has no clue. TBH, she *wanted* to be a good mother but her autism really crippled me as a child. I had no adults in my life who helped me in my journey from baby to growing up. She didn't even know why I cried as a child and whether I was hungry or not. This led to her stopping breast feeding because I "never wanted to drink anyway". I'm just so angry. It's so unfair. A mother should be able to be intuitively emotionally empathic and responsive with her children.

There were so many fights in our home. My parents only really saw me when I cheered them up, when I emotionally supported them or when I tried to 'fix' their marriage. The few emotions my mother recognized in me, she put up for display for all to see by pointing them out with a loud, childish voice. I have huge anxiety issues, feeling 'never good enough'.

It's just so heartbreaking to realize that I've never asked my parents for help, as I grew up. I knew they wouldn't be able to meet the expectations.

There was just no emotional reciprocity when I grew up. Nobody seemed to be able to really really *show* that they gave a * about me. Sure, they repeated the words. Afterwards, I wish I could go back in time to yell at them "SHOW, DON'T TELL!". I considered running away as a child, hoped that someone would ring the doorbell and tell me I was adopted and that my real parents wanted me back, I considered setting the house on fire. I was afraid of my parents, because they would never support me but always come with their own issues or point out my emotions without really *helping* me cope.

I've finally found a therapist who *gets* my issues, even if I don't quite seem to "get" them myself. I just can't seem to be able to cope with life, working life in specific. I am overwhelmed, anxious, exhausted. I haven't held on to a job for 2 years, I get anxious and have to flee. All employers are happy with my work and surprised when I quit. But I just can't handle it.

I feel so tired. I just want to quit my job, I want to quit working, but am unable to give myself permission. My husband (yes, I'm in a happy and, surprisingly, very healthy relationship... it's ok if you don't believe me, my therapist is very surprised as well since statistically speaking it's very unlikely) has told me on various anxiety-filled occasions that he's willing to provide for the both of us, that he wants me to be happy and that if delivering mail is what gives me peace of mind, I should go ahead and do that. God, I'm all emotional now, he's awesome. And yet, somehow, I can't. I *must* continue, I must be strong, I may not quit. But I so desparately want to. At home, I feel safe, I can relax, I hardly ever have anxiety attacks like I do at work.

I've got a therapist who gets my issues now, who has confirmed what I've always felt, that I've been "emotionally raped". On the one hand I'm thinking this is a festering wound that is finally opening up and starting to bleed, but god it hurts so much. Does this ever get better?

Sorry to barge in with this story, but I am hoping here I can find people who are going through the same things I am... Please, does someone understand?

[Otillie]

annakoen, I wish I had the bandwidth right now to tell you how hard I hear you and understand what you are saying.

My story is different but it's the same, too. All those things your parents put you through—I know those things.

I am SO HAPPY you have a therapist and husband who hear you and care.

I'm here reading and cheering you on. My life has gotten better over these last ... er ... good grief ... thirty years since I started facing my chilldhood demons. So much better. It still hurts and I still struggle. But.

But. I'm sending you hope.

[Dutch Uncle]

Hi annakoen  and welcome to Out of the Storm.

Yes I do understand, and I can relate to a lot of your story.
I strongly suspect my father is an Aspergers, and it's my mother who has done the "parentifying". First and foremost with my sister, and to a large extend to me too, and there really is no reason to expect my brother escaped it either. I suppose.

After a long horrible marriage my parents did divorce, but it never stopped the parentifying (and parental alienation) by my mom, and I finally have broken off all contact with her, as her constant nagging and devaluation of me threw me into a depression.
Now I'm here, which is a helpful place, with people who know what I, and you, are struggling with.

I am overwhelmed, anxious, exhausted. I haven't held on to a job for 2 years, I get anxious and have to flee. All employers are happy with my work and surprised when I quit. But I just can't handle it.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I often can't believe the praise I get. I think they must be faking it. Slowly but surely I start to understand why: praise from both my parents was rare, and was always followed by a practically immediate put-down. So it's hard for me to  feel joy and pride, as I immediately 'brace for impact'.

How wonderful you bonded with your kind husband, and have found a good and supportive therapist. 
I hope and wish this site and community will be of additional help in your journey through recovery.

We are not the only ones who are now experiencing some negative fall-out from being raised by people with autism. I'd like to point you to a thread that contains some research-articles etc. on the effects. Autism (incl. Asperger's) in a parent
Perhaps you'll find something useful there, and a safe place to speak out on your experiences. All in your own good time of course.

Welcome again,

Dutch Uncle.

[annakoen]

annakoen, I wish I had the bandwidth right now to tell you how hard I hear you and understand what you are saying.

My story is different but it's the same, too. All those things your parents put you through—I know those things.

I am SO HAPPY you have a therapist and husband who hear you and care.

I'm here reading and cheering you on. My life has gotten better over these last ... er ... good grief ... thirty years since I started facing my chilldhood demons. So much better. It still hurts and I still struggle. But.

But. I'm sending you hope.

Otillie, thank you so much for your kind words. It's such a relief to receive these replies, yours and Dutch Uncle's. I read them while taking a solitary walk during a break at work and felt very relieved to read your acknowledgement and your reaching out to me to respond.

Now that I've finally been able to acknowledge how deep my pain is and have found a therapist who acknowledges that, too, I hope I can start taking better care of myself, first and foremost. It's the thing I struggle with most, I have not learned how to ask for help, how to trust people and how to calm down. As a result, at work, I'm in a perpetually anxious state and can come across as too intense (also a trait of giftedness), which in turn makes me more anxious because I can feel I'm standing out like a sore (very sore) thumb.

I am making very, very slow progress, but at least it's progress.. Just some days I feel it's only getting worse... Is that normal, is it part of the first real start of healing this? Even though on some level I've always known the impact and depth of my pain, it surprises, nay shocks me to now see the depth of this wound, the weight of this burden I've been carrying all this time. I can't seem to be able to put it down just yet, but I really, really want to. I'm hoping some day I can love myself enough to say "The kind of work place I need is such and such and if nobody can provide that for me I will provide it for myself". Now, finally, I have a feeling that this goal is reachable, even if it takes me the rest of my life to get there, I will be able to do that, some day

[annakoen]

Hi annakoen  and welcome to Out of the Storm.

Yes I do understand, and I can relate to a lot of your story.
I strongly suspect my father is an Aspergers, and it's my mother who has done the "parentifying". First and foremost with my sister, and to a large extend to me too, and there really is no reason to expect my brother escaped it either. I suppose.

After a long horrible marriage my parents did divorce, but it never stopped the parentifying (and parental alienation) by my mom, and I finally have broken off all contact with her, as her constant nagging and devaluation of me threw me into a depression.
Now I'm here, which is a helpful place, with people who know what I, and you, are struggling with.


....


We are not the only ones who are now experiencing some negative fall-out from being raised by people with autism. I'd like to point you to a thread that contains some research-articles etc. on the effects. Autism (incl. Asperger's) in a parent
Perhaps you'll find something useful there, and a safe place to speak out on your experiences. All in your own good time of course.

Welcome again,

Dutch Uncle.

Thank you so much for responding. Yes, I found your thread about Asperger's parents. Most of the links, I have read those pages before and I've also read some topics on this forum about substance abuse by parents. I can piece together my own story from this, the resources and supporting responses are very helpful.

How do you feel about autistic parents? I can somehow, in time, probably forgive my mother, because her being autistic means she really can't help it. She always intended and wanted to be a good mother, but, quite frankly, her autism did irrepairable damage to me as a child. I needed an emotional bond with my mother, something her autism prevented her from being capable of. I know it sounds horrible, but given the nature of autism, I am strongly doubting whether women with autism are able to build up a strong emotional bond that is sufficiently strong *from the children's point of view*... A strong maternal bond is essential for emotional wellbeing of a child. I have a black black black opinion on this ... I'm not proud of it...

Now my dad... I have huge resentment for him, while at the same time I have been programmed by him to feel nothing but sympathy and empathy for him. He leaned on me my entire life and given the chance will do so immediately again and I have been programmed to respond. I have to hold up a huge protective wall, against my own father, in order for him not to overwhelm me with his own emotions. I cannot visit for more than an hour and I will cry on my way home, every single time. And I keep thinking, why weren't *you* at least able to see me for who I am and what I needed? I learned a few weeks ago that he might have brain damage due to an accident when he was younger and I am now left to wonder if that is wat caused his own emotional instability. He should have been forced to get psychological help in his twenties.

It's a tough topic, I know, but I get the feeling that if one parent has a problem (albeit autism, brain damage, substance abuse, whatever), the other parent needs to provide a *lot* of compensating emotional care for the children to grow up happy and healthy. Needless to say, neither of my parents was able to compensate for the other's deficits. I feel very strong resentment towards both my father and mother and I get the feeling that these parents, this combination of autism and alcoholism, were unfit to have children. They should have been forbidden to have kids.

I am overwhelmed, anxious, exhausted. I haven't held on to a job for 2 years, I get anxious and have to flee. All employers are happy with my work and surprised when I quit. But I just can't handle it.

Yeah, I know the feeling. I often can't believe the praise I get. I think they must be faking it. Slowly but surely I start to understand why: praise from both my parents was rare, and was always followed by a practically immediate put-down. So it's hard for me to  feel joy and pride, as I immediately 'brace for impact'.

This 'brace for impact' is a perfect description of what it feels like! The put-down I don't know.. it was mostly a lack of praise and a constant dread that I failed in fixing our family's problems. But yeah, 'brace for impact' is the perfect name for the state that I am in at work.. Thank you for this expression, it may help me realize when I am doing that..

How wonderful you bonded with your kind husband, and have found a good and supportive therapist. 
I hope and wish this site and community will be of additional help in your journey through recovery.

Thank you. I know, it's a relief to have finally found some emotional stability in my life. I feel that I finally have at least two persons I can lean on and a place I can finally call 'home' to go to after being out in the world for too long. I realized that a few days ago that this is a first in my life, that I feel I have a therapist I can really confide in, who understands and that I have a partner with whom I have a great emotional bond. I feel much, much safer in the world these past two years than I have ever felt before...

Thank you for your welcome and support

[Dutch Uncle]

How do you feel about autistic parents? I can somehow, in time, probably forgive my mother, because her being autistic means she really can't help it. She always intended and wanted to be a good mother, but, quite frankly, her autism did irrepairable damage to me as a child. I needed an emotional bond with my mother, something her autism prevented her from being capable of. I know it sounds horrible, but given the nature of autism, I am strongly doubting whether women with autism are able to build up a strong emotional bond that is sufficiently strong *from the children's point of view*... A strong maternal bond is essential for emotional wellbeing of a child. I have a black black black opinion on this ... I'm not proud of it...

Now my dad... I have huge resentment for him, while at the same time I have been programmed by him to feel nothing but sympathy and empathy for him. He leaned on me my entire life and given the chance will do so immediately again and I have been programmed to respond. I have to hold up a huge protective wall, against my own father, in order for him not to overwhelm me with his own emotions. I cannot visit for more than an hour and I will cry on my way home, every single time. And I keep thinking, why weren't *you* at least able to see me for who I am and what I needed? I learned a few weeks ago that he might have brain damage due to an accident when he was younger and I am now left to wonder if that is wat caused his own emotional instability. He should have been forced to get psychological help in his twenties.

It's a tough topic, I know, but I get the feeling that if one parent has a problem (albeit autism, brain damage, substance abuse, whatever), the other parent needs to provide a *lot* of compensating emotional care for the children to grow up happy and healthy. Needless to say, neither of my parents was able to compensate for the other's deficits. I feel very strong resentment towards both my father and mother and I get the feeling that these parents, this combination of autism and alcoholism, were unfit to have children. They should have been forbidden to have kids.

That's a good question.
I feel less resentful to my autistic parent as I do towards my narcissistic parent. My DramaMama as I call her, did what she did with malicious intent and she was fully aware.
For my father it was probably different, but what I do resent towards him that since my 'mom' left him more than a decade ago, he still wants to cuddle up to her and I cannot say a single negative word about the way my 'mom' treats me up to today. I mean, even people with autism can understand they have been dumped, no? And during my youth as well, he has been the great Enabler, and would get physically violent if any of the kids stood up against nasty tricks by 'mom'. I do feel angry and resentful for that.
For the emotional neglect I can give him a 'pass' (but it hurts the same whatever the cause), for the physical abuse, violent verbal abuse and complete lack of any mutual support after 'mom' kicked him out of her life... not so much.

I also do feel a slight pity for my abusive mother though: she did have to take up all the slack her (autistic) partner left her. It must have driven her mad. Well, it did. A tiny part in me can even understand (but not accept) that she was 'happy' her husband at least smacked the kids, as any emotional, verbal or other support in relating with his kids and guiding us on the path to adulthood was surely not materializing for her. Him beating the crap out of us children, was probably the most supportive act her husband has ever shown towards her as far as raising the kids is concerned. Sad really.

But most of all: 

[Otillie]

annakoen:

I am making very, very slow progress, but at least it's progress.. Just some days I feel it's only getting worse... Is that normal, is it part of the first real start of healing this?

Dealing with the trauma hasn't been a linear process for me. And I don't really see progress or change or getting-better-ness as it happens ... but when I look back over a few years, I realize, Hey, wait, I've been a little bit happy almost! How 'bout that...

I've been seeing the same therapist (aka "my good mother") for twenty-seven years. Can't even begin to say how much that has meant to me. I don't know why it makes such a difference—I mean, I talk, and she hears me, and not much else happens. But somehow it's Everything.

I found a support group a few years ago and that has also been Everything. I don't know why just knowing I'm not all alone changes things but it does.

And I'm starting to sound like I think I'm an expert, haha NO. I still get blindsided. I get flashbacks. Moods like whoa. My social anxiety and noise phobia have only grown deeper and more crippling. I have years where I cope better than others.

(On the other hand...somewhere along the line, I seem to have decided—it wasn't conscious—that my Plan For Life, which was "Wake up tomorrow and be a person who doesn't have social anxiety or noise phobia," wasn't working out so great, and why don't I set up a life that actually works for who I really am. So I did. INFINITE IMPROVEMENT. About 90 percent of my stress just flaked right away. It didn't do anything to make people or noise easier for me to deal with; just meant that I don't have to deal with them as much. On the whole: RECOMMEND.)

For me the up-and-down and one-step-forward-two-steps-back dance is STILL going on. Facing trauma—I've lived with my story now for a lot of decades, so it's not actively front-burner in my mind most of the time. Except when it is.

Even though on some level I've always known the impact and depth of my pain, it surprises, nay shocks me to now see the depth of this wound, the weight of this burden I've been carrying all this time. I can't seem to be able to put it down just yet, but I really, really want to.

Oh yeah. I don't think I'll ever fully put it down. Even after decades, sometimes I think my brain sends me back "inside" the trauma now and then, as if I'm right there in the moment again. I sort of disappear into my subconscious mind for a while, re-experiencing everything. For me, being back "inside" like that — the thing is, every time it happens I learn something. I remember some vital piece, I make some crucial connection. ("So that's why I'm scared of XYZ!") And then I have to get out because trauma (still working on that part). But yeah, even though I've been grappling with my demons since the 1980s, I'm not done yet.

Even now my brain—my past—my childhood self has things to tell me.

I'm hoping some day I can love myself enough to say "The kind of work place I need is such and such and if nobody can provide that for me I will provide it for myself". Now, finally, I have a feeling that this goal is reachable, even if it takes me the rest of my life to get there, I will be able to do that, some day

OH I HOPE THIS FOR YOU SO MUCH too. And ... and it's exactly what I did do for myself. I have my own tiny-but-thriving little business and IT IS WORTH IT. It's not perfect (What I would give for a day off...). But you can do this, annakoen, and it will be worth it.

[Me204]

Hello, I too am one of those rare survivors that am married (happily). I have been in counselling for roughly 10 years. At times it hurts so bad that I don't think I  will be able to move on - but that is your brain starting heal itself. It does get better - it never goes away but gets better - more manageable. I am a lot less angry than what I was 10 years ago. It takes time - and finding a professional to talk to is a great start.

Good luck on your long journey.

[felloutofthesky]

My story is also different, but the experiences you described are all very familiar. I grew up with zero validation, connection, acknowledgement, and a lot of parentification, in addition to gas lighting, scapegoating and infantalising. Very confusing, unhealthy and the very worst part was the neglect. I used to wish someone would hit me just so that someone would touch me.

I have learned, and am still learning, that we can't hope to get something from our parents that isn't there. My friend has this great analogy - you can't get milk from the hardware store. The most healing thing to me has been finding and creating healthy relationships with other people who have become my family (not blood related), and also working with a great therapist who really gets it. So much that I didn't get from my parents - unconditional love, validation, safety, acknowledgment, a basic feeling of being valued - I have gotten in spades from my "adopted" family.

You are definitely not alone and it can and does get better. It is very painful and a lot of work but also wonderful beyond anything you could even imagine. For me, it was. It genuinely never occurred to me that anyone could love or care about me, but they do. And having such a background makes it even more precious.

I don't know you but I am sending you love and compassion and acknowledgment. I hope you continue moving forward and knowing you are not alone. 

[MidnightOwl]

annakoen - It sounds like you have been through a lot of challenges growing up, and trust that it will take time to reverse the damage your FOO caused. It does get better, though for many of us it can feel slow. But I agree with Otillie, you look around one day and think "Hey, I don't feel a deep horrible emptiness in this moment, how about that?".

In your situation, it sounds like a big point of focus is learning to take care of yourself, this is a big one. When you've been parentified, you then have to learn to be your own parent in order to heal. I'm going through that right now and it's been helpful for me to think...OK, in this moment, what would I tell a child to do? "We need to go to bed by 11p so that we aren't tired when we get up at 6a tomorrow", "We are going to drink a green smoothie so that we get plenty of vitamins and hydration and feel good for the rest of the day.", "We're going to wait on this trip so that we can pay down some debt and feel less anxious about the finances", "I know your scared but it is going to be alright, we're going to get through this." It's kinda weird but it works for me, I guess I'm talking to my inner child.

Another thing I struggle with is reminding myself that I'm WORTH taking care of. I noticed I'd start doing Yoga then just stop after 5 mins. I wondered why and noticed my internal critic was questioning if it was worth spending time to be healthy...or doubting that it/I was worth it. I have to remind myself I'm worth it over and over again to establish new habits.

It's very counter-intuitive for me, and that's OK, just have to learn new patterns.

I totally get the work thing, I panic when I feel like I can't get away from something. This is true of a lot of situations...like I never carpool to events, I park so it's easy to exit, I don't like to put my purse down, etc. I just assume people will eventually get tired of putting up with me, which is silly but it's just my programming. I try to notice if I'm being triggered and acting neurotically as a result, try to breathe through it and let it go.

I'm happy you found a therapist you connect with, that's powerful Also, glad you're reaching out in the forums, I feel like we all need various forms of support to heal and this is a great resource.

[annakoen]

Thank you for your messages and support. I'm working through everything, one step at a time. The realisation how deep my pain goes came to me only a year ago, even though I have been in therapy many years before that.

Although initially it felt like there was just no way forward (and it still does feel that way very often) there is some progress of a kind. The "Hey, wait, I've been a little bit happy almost! How 'bout that..." that Otillie wrote earlier rings true for me every now and then, which is more than I had before and a huge improvement. I knew *rationally* that I had happy moments, but it just didn't feel that way, as if I don't remember them. It's getting better.

I still have major freak outs, flashbacks and anxiety attacks, but I'm feeling much more sane and safe. I have a safe home to go to now. The word home never used to mean anything to me. It really bothered me, I would spend weeks contemplating the word, as if it didn't make sense to me. I understand now why and feel safe at home. Nobody comes in uninvited. Hubby understands why.

Thank you all for reaching out, it means a lot to me.

Love,
annakoen

[sanmagic7]

annakoen, you rang a bell with me when you mentioned failing to fix your family's problems.  i've felt that way for so long, not with my foo, but with my ex-hub and 2 daughters.  our family unit was madness, and i did everything i knew how to do to make it a stable and loving environment, but i, too, was working from a deficit of depression which i never recognized, nor was it ever acknowledged even in therapy for 8 yrs. 

but the feeling of responsibility for making everything ok within our family i held closely to my heart.  it wasn't until a few weeks ago that it was pointed out to me on this forum that it wasn't all my responsibility to fix, that much of the problems belonged to other adults who weren't doing their share. 

you're right, parents need to be working together, either as a team or in a compensatory role to take care of the children.  it's the parents' duty to protect their children, even from themselves.  but, it is never the children's duty to 'fix' the parents or the family problems.   therefore, the child can never fail at it. 

it does get better, little by little over time.  i'm feeling better today than i have since i fell into a major ef 8 months ago.  it sounds like you're beginning to recognize some progress for yourself as well.  yay!  keep hangin' tough.