CSA remembered. And then forgotten again? (Trigger Warning)

[mourningdove]

I'm not sure how to explain this.

When I was in my mid twenties, I was living with my covert-NM and a family member was supposed to visit. I became terrified and the terror just built and built. There was no way I would be able to avoid this person if they visited. Eventually I had a memory of CSA involving them.

I remember when I had the memory for the first time. I was in the passenger seat of a car with my head down between my knees, crying and shaking and hyperventilating. I told the person I was with, who luckily was a good friend and was supportive.

That night, when I slept,  I was incontinent for the only time in my adult life. Then I made a horrible decision and told my M why I didn't want that person to visit. The results of that were traumatic in themselves and that was the moment I realized that my M did not love me.

But anyway, I remember telling my friend in the car, and my M, and another friend, and I have carried around this truth ever since that something happened to me, but somehow I eventually forgot the horrible memories of what happened. In fact, if it hadn't been for the repercussions of my having told people about it, I might question whether I ever really had those memories. I know I did, but I can't remember them. And maybe that is a blessing in a lot of ways, but it also makes me feel sometimes that I could have made it up. And that makes me feel crazy.

I hope this makes sense. I should add that the person responsible is dead. And yet I still have a visceral fear of them. And I had to listen to my M cry her eyes out for the death, whereas she didn't shed a tear when I had told her what happened to me.

[stillhere]

Mourningdove, I can't explain your experience to you, of course.  But I think memory is a malleable thing.  And memory of something so dreadful might come and go or linger through a filter, as your memory seems to have done.

I have no single events to remember, so my experience is different.  But I know that I sometimes struggle to make sense of the past and then, in response, struggle to hang on to what I can remember, so that I can explain it to myself (and occasionally to others).  And like you, I sometimes recall the aftermath of an altercation (usually a verbal and/or physical assault), telling someone or arguing about it soon afterward, rather than its substance. 

I doubt very much that you imagined such a dreadful experience.  Rather, the memory of remembering is safer, a step removed from the horror of what happened.

[mourningdove]

That makes sense. Thanks for your support, stillhere. 

[arpy1]

mourningdove, what springs to mind after reading your horrible experiences is 'talk about adding insult to injury'.

i wonder if the reason your mind decided to re-block the original memory was becos your mum basically re-traumatised you when you got the courage to share it with her? so instead of getting what you needed and deserved, her support and belief, and even protection, all you got was her denial of your experience, probably, from the sounds of it, expressed in the cruellest terms. such a depth of invalidation is traumatising in itself, to say nothing of the acute re-experiencing of the original event/s. 

far from doubting that the abuse ever happened, this seems to be a good reason to believe yourself even more. the fact that it is a double trauma, i mean.

i can only imagine how crap this all felt and probably still feels.  i hope can feel a bit more validated for having shared. lots of support to you

[mourningdove]

Thank you, arpy1 

That is a good point that I hadn't thought of before - that I may have forgotten again because of my M's reaction.  Her response really was traumatic in itself.

I wasn't initially feeling up to talking about that aspect, but now part of me wants to, so I will. I was initially thinking I could make a new thread about it, but it's too intricately tied to what I've already written here.

***More Possible Triggers***

At the time that the memory came back, my then-partner was living with my M and I, and they were the one who first told my M what had happened to me because I was too upset to talk. I could not make my mouth say those words. If it hadn't been for my partner, I suspect that my M wouldn't even have have cancelled the visit. But since my M is is an N, she is vulnerable to the opinions of people who are not seen by her as extensions of herself (as she sees me).

So my M did cancel the visit, but then I was subject to interrogation about what I had remembered. I kept saying, "Please. I don't want to talk about it," but she wouldn't stop. She also started out by insisting that she was going to confront our family member about what I had remembered, even though I was begging her not to. I was begging her not to tell anyone.

It was like, she wasn't upset so much for what had happened to me as she was that a family member had done that to HER child. So she wanted to confront that person to get satisfaction. She was only worried about her own feelings. But that phase came after her initial reaction, which is what showed me very clearly that she did not love me:

1. She first asked me if she was sure it had not been my dad instead that had done that to me(!).

2. Then she said that she had always thought that if anything like that had happened to me, then it would have been done by an adult at my elementary school (who I think had been trying to "groom" me as a victim when I was an early teen, which my whole family suspected at the time and actually made fun of ME for).

3. Then she asked me if I was sure I had not done anything to "ask for it."

So, I don't think I need to spell out the many ways that each of those suggestions is abominable. Before she had said those things, I had actually thought that -despite how messed up I knew she was - her maternal instinct would want to protect me and she would care about what had happened. I was wrong.

For weeks and weeks she would bring it up at random times, sometimes asking me questions about what exactly had happened and sometimes saying again that she was going to confront the person. This was despite the fact that every time it came up, I told her that I never wanted to talk about it again, usually while shaking and with tears pouring down my face.

Eventually, these episodes became less frequent, but they continued for years and years. The last time it came up somewhat was  a couple years ago, and my M said that I need to "get on with my life and learn how to forgive and forget."

[The Girl Who Was Me]

Mourningdove - I don't think you are crazy.  I've had a somewhat similar experience.  (Possible triggers follow.)

I suffered CSA at the hands of my step-grandfather between the ages of 11 and 13 that I, unfortunately, have always remembered all too vividly.  But, when I was in my early 20's, and trying to get help for depression related to that CSA and related to physical and emotional abuse inflicted by my father between the ages of 3-9, I started remembering additional CSA inflicted by my father when I was a toddler, 3-4 years old.  At the time I recalled it quite vividly and was able to describe it in detail to the therapist I was seeing at the time.  In a misguided attempt to get some kind of admission/explanation/apology from my father, I confronted him with my memories.  He denied any wrong-doing and questioned my sanity.  So then, of course, the self-doubt started creeping in - was I making this up?  And because I needed to get on with my life, I think I just kind of packed it all away again and sub-consciously willed myself to re-forget it.  And now, I'm in 40's, and about a year ago, I had to go back to the house where my second round of CSA occurred (a place I hadn't been for several years) and it triggered me in a major way to where all of this stuff is coming back up again. And some of the stuff that's coming back up is the stuff with my dad from when I was a toddler.  It's hazy now - the kind of memories that float around the edge of your consciousness, but slip away if you try to focus too hard on the details, but it's coming back again and it feels familiar, so I think it is really real.

(End triggers) 

Anyway, not to make this about me, but just to say, having had a similar experience, I don't think you are crazy at all and you have my deepest empathy as someone whose been there.   And I'm so sorry that your M is not able to give you the love and support you need.  I know the pain of that all too well, too.  ((Hugs))

[tired]

What matters is the memory of how you felt.  Maybe the memory of the actual events isn't always clear but the essence of the event is. 

I don't remember how many times I had things happen to me. I have clear memories of things, but I don't know if it happened 3 times or 30 times.  I don't think it matters. 

The bigger trauma came after, when I tried to tell my family.  I remember thinking, I can deal with this crazy person who assaulted me, because I know (from school) that sometimes there are bad people in the world and the police come and take them away etc etc.  My parents, that was different. 

My sister once suggested maybe I"m confused and I'm actually remembering a doctor's visit and mixing it up with other things.  I couldn't believe she said that, because it makes no sense.  What I told her happened during the assault was nothing remotely like any doctor visit she was talking about.  I just told her, I remember the doctor very clearly (I had minor surgery) and I remember the assaults very clearly. They were both traumatic and they were both separate events.  If I were to confuse things it wouldn't be the way you're suggesting.

I'll tell you what I won't forget; the memory of how my family treats me when I bring up this issue.  Because it still happens.

[mourningdove]

Thank you, tired and The Girl Who Was Me.   

I really appreciate the support. I am so sorry for what you both endured and I relate to the pain of trying to tell and then being emotionally abused for it.

(We kind of posted all at the same time just now, so I'm not sure if you saw, but I ended up going into detail above about what happened when I told.)

I really do feel less crazy and less alone because of the support everyone has given me and I am so grateful for that.

[mourningdove]

I'm wondering if anyone can comment on what my M did when I told (http://outofthefog.net/C-PTSD/forum/index.php?topic=2561.msg16251#msg16251). It was damaging to me and I guess I'd like to hear that it was wrong.

[tired]

My mother did something similar. Same theme going on. I don't get it.  I mean, she turned it into something about herself but she didn't say that. One time she said "It's hard for me to talk about or hear because I get so upset about it." That was ok. That was her owning her own reaction. But it was only the one time and the one sentence, in my entire life. Other than that she turns it into something I can't even understand.  Or I should say, I don't want to because I don't have time to analyze her. I can barely figure out my own self and I seriously don't feel like I should have to sort out my mother's problems when it's supposed to be the other way around.  It woud have turned out different if she later said "sometimes I say dumb stuff and I hope we can talk about it again so I can actually listen and hear you."  Or she could say "I say dumb stuff and I don't know why" or "I am a jerk sometimes sorry about that".  Just something.

[mourningdove]

Thanks, tired. I hear you. It would have made such a huge difference to me, too, if my M had said any of those things. But I don't think she is capable of it. I have had to figure her out in order to survive and I resent it. The abusive reactions I mentioned above are all I've ever gotten from her and I wish I had never told.