More on being alone

schrödinger's cat · October 21, 2014, 03:08:44 PM

I'm in the middle of reading a book on mothers who can't love, and it says that it's actually a very good idea to see who ones parents are and how they got that way. I've recently stumbled upon a book about my parents' generation, and it was VERY eye-opening. It helps me realize that what they taught me is just their way of seeing the world. It's their reaction to their own trauma. It's not necessarily what the world is really like.

Quote from: Sasha2727 on October 21, 2014, 01:33:06 PM
...I just was in a class for work and they talked about how our little town is very much it's own little world. Shame based culture, very private, go to work and work hard, stick close to the family, don't laugh at yourself, keep your head down, don't be special or stick out...

Well I found out that pa Dutch originated in a very small town outside of Germany, a town that got wrecked often due to being small with no allies.

Wouldn't surprise me. It's a common mindset hereabouts: keep your head down, stick to what you know, play it safe, don't rock the boat, hard work and frugality are best, don't focus on your emotions, always be on the lookout for danger, stick to the tested and tried, no experiments... it's all safety-focussed thinking of the kind one develops after major upheavals.

Kizzie · October 21, 2014, 06:05:41 PM

Quote from: schrödinger's cat on October 21, 2014, 03:08:44 PM
I'm in the middle of reading a book on mothers who can't love, and it says that it's actually a very good idea to see who ones parents are and how they got that way. I've recently stumbled upon a book about my parents' generation, and it was VERY eye-opening. It helps me realize that what they taught me is just their way of seeing the world. It's their reaction to their own trauma. It's not necessarily what the world is really like.

Yes, the trauma legacy and the bigger picture

In an odd way knowing there are many FOO in my past (not just my parents, but their parents and their parents .....) who contributed to the legacy has helped me with not feeling so alone. I understand it's a cycle started a long time ago and we all got caught in it (and more importantly that the cycle can be interrupted).

globetrotter · October 24, 2014, 05:23:39 PM

Years ago when I went to ACoA meetings, their catch phrase for alcoholic parents was "Well, they did the best that they could."
Now, I cry *! (sorry) How can they even buy in to that? The BEST that they could do would have been to recognize the damage they were doing to everyone including themselves and getting into recovery. Am I missing something?

schrödinger's cat · October 24, 2014, 05:43:48 PM

I don't know about alcoholic parents at all, so I can't say anything about that. In my mother's case, it was mainly about the impact of being parentalized at age four, growing up poor, the war, things like that. It all influenced how she sees the world, how she relates (or doesn't relate) to people, how much safety she needs, etc. To some extent, she simply handed down to me what she was given.

Even so, she did have some leeway. She could have made life easier for me, but she didn't. Her priorities were different.

What you wrote reminded me of a poem by Philip Larkin, the one with the f-bomb, so just in case you don't know it already, I thought you might enjoy it. Me, I agree with everything in it except for the last verse.

globetrotter · October 24, 2014, 07:10:45 PM

Thank you for the poem. I understand some traits are inherited or passed down sometimes. I grew up next door to my grandparents and am not sure how my mother turned out the way that she did. They were kind, non-drinkers and well liked from what I saw and provided me a steady keel. (thank goodness!) Mom must have inherited a rogue gene. Perhaps my father drug her astray.

I am always glad when I see that a friend has determinedly made things different for their children vs repeating the pattern.

Kizzie · October 26, 2014, 08:58:03 PM

Quote from: globetrotter on October 24, 2014, 05:23:39 PM
Years ago when I went to ACoA meetings, their catch phrase for alcoholic parents was "Well, they did the best that they could."
Now, I cry BULLs***! (sorry) How can they even buy in to that? The BEST that they could do would have been to recognize the damage they were doing to everyone including themselves and getting into recovery. Am I missing something?

I heard that at ACoA meetings too and it was one of the reasons I left. In hindsight I think it really helped reinforce my image of myself as just an angry, defective person who couldn't forgive my parents which delayed recovery for another decade or so.

Our parents did not do the best they could, that's for certain. What I now understand to some degree though is that mine developed a lot of maladaptive strategies just like I did to survive having both grown up in abusive FOOs themselves (and for a few generations back so the behaviours become somewhat normalized I think), but when all is said and done neither did try and do anything about it.

I did try and get my M to go to Al-Anon not realizing then that she has NPD and can't see that there even was/is a real problem in our FOO, but she would not. As long as we looked OK on the surface she was good. And my F simply did not want to even try getting some help despite the obvious problems it caused in our family. You could not approach him at all or he would rip into you so we just shut up.

I know my GPs had problems and their parents before them so I know it's a long cycle on both sides of my FOO. It's really interesting that yours did not, at least on one side. Did those GPs ever talk to you about your parent's behaviour?

globetrotter · October 26, 2014, 09:23:26 PM

Hey Kizzie...I know my grandmother was frustrated by my mother's drinking. I don't remember conversations between them. I attempted to tell my mother how embarrassing it was to have friends over and I dealt.with vile backlash for my words. As an adult my sis tried to explain that drinking caused the depression when mom.said she.drank because she was depressed...but I think the depression may have been passed down from my great grandmother. Either way in addition to valium addiction she wasn't present much of the time.

I appreciate what you wrote about ACoA and how their message isn't the best band aid.

Sasha2727 · October 26, 2014, 11:06:55 PM

you guys are all awesome, I have been not doing all that well lately I forget to come check out new stuff on here... then I have a crazy moment and finally make my out of the fog and BAM im here and happy lol

I have never been to a ACOA meeting but I do really love the " Laundry List " also I will say that CPTSD seems to labeled all sorts of things which makes information harder to obtain. I really see what ACOA labels as childhood trauma syndrome the same thing as CPTSD. Also Judeth Herman writes a lot about it but uses a different label. I personally think much of the literature is good. Its hard being raised with the old " black and white thinking " because taking the useful and leaving the rest just seems unnatural.

Funny thing, my mother actually never drank when I was in the home, now much later in life she is with an alcoholic who is passive and seems to have really keyed her down a good bit. They drink all of the time, she gets drunk and blasts Christian music! honestly, I have to say that although im no endorser of self medicating... her fears and godlike opinions seem to now be more directed at people on facebook instead of me so... I guess id rather have her buzzed up and safe with him then, on lose and REFUSING to take any prescribed medication. If you ask her , her only issue is Fibro myalsia. Her body pain is the reason she is depressed and angry.... oh my...

globetrotter · October 27, 2014, 04:24:12 PM

Wow! Major blast from the past. The Laundry List!

Posting it here:
http://www.adultchildren.org/lit/Laundry_List.php

The ACoA meetings I went to were 30 years ago, but a great introduction to finding peers and realizing that I wasn't a freak for feeling the way that I did. Looking over this list again after all of these years was very revealing. Thank you for reminding me! Some traits I've left in the dust, some are hanging on. #8 is still my favorite. At least I choose healthier options now!

Kizzie · October 28, 2014, 02:45:27 AM

The Laundry List! I had forgotten all about it - wow, that is a blast from the past.

schrödinger's cat · October 28, 2014, 08:37:25 AM

Quote from: globetrotter on October 24, 2014, 07:10:45 PM
Thank you for the poem. I understand some traits are inherited or passed down sometimes.

I hope I haven't run into any cross-cultural misunderstanding? The poem wasn't meant as a raised-index-finger didn't-you-know kind of thing, so if it came across like that, sorry. Honestly, I simply found the poem funny because Larkin sound so tetchy. I used to think he was mainly into genteel tristesse.

globetrotter · October 28, 2014, 03:05:35 PM

Not at all, Cat!! Thank you for your concern.

Sienna · May 09, 2016, 11:09:44 PM

Hi there FindingMyVoice,

I was just browsing and came across your thread.

That stuff, your mum invading your boundaries, not clearly communicating that she wanted something from you...that being your help- which may have been wrong in itself to ask a child-depending, oooh, that sounds really difficult and downright annoying.
That sounds really smothering. Its boundary invading.

Maybe your mind going blank is because you are afraid of others?
Maybe you are sub consciously keeping your guard up in fear of your boundaries being invaded.

Maybe its both being hyper vigilant and also disassociating.
If you are hyper vigilant, maybe you are in the present- maybe too much, or-
maybe you are too back in the past. Maybe you are stuck in fear that maybe you cant feel. And if so that is dissociation, as flashbacks are disasociation- disassociating back to another time, that isn't the present.

But i do think its dissociation. When we are stressed, then mind can go blank.
And also when disassociated. Im sorry i don't know.
But i have this too. I have a blank mind in therapy sessions and i forget what she just said, or what i was talking about.
I also have this in company of others. Sometimes if they are loud and talkative and i have to *get in there* to be heard, i speak quickly and loose track of my thoughts.
But i can have this too in normal quiet conversations.
Its like my brain just shuts off and its noting. All thoughts that i was going to say, just stop.

Im sorry you struggle with this.
I too wait for others to dismiss me. Its the whole thought i have that they don't really want to spend time with me, and that they don't think what i have to say is important- especially if they talk over me, and / or over each other and are loud.

My guess would be, that by your mother doing what she did, she might have thought you that you are not important- that your rights and boundries- (which are rights) don't matter. So maybe you also feel that what you have to say doesn't matter to others.

Just my thoughts. I just wanted to say i relate. ps. my boundaries - well i didn't have any at home, they were none existent, as in - they were invaded, and i was not respected in that way.
Hugs,