Why “Morbid Obesity” Still Hurts — and Why the Language Matters

[TheBigBlue]

Dolly, I actually think I understand your concern, and I agree with an important part of it: physical symptoms should never be reduced to "just trauma," and people absolutely deserve proper medical investigation for genetic, immune, infectious, hormonal, environmental, gut, and other causes.

Where I think Kizzie, I and others may not be as far from you as it sounds is this: saying trauma can affect physiology is not the same as saying trauma explains everything.

To me, it's more like a risk-factor model. Smoking greatly increases lung cancer risk, but not every lung cancer patient smoked, and not every smoker develops lung cancer. Genetics, environment, infections, and other factors all matter too. In a similar way, ACEs/CPTSD appear to increase risk for some later health problems without being the sole explanation for every individual case.

That distinction matters to me because recognizing those associations can sometimes reduce shame and stigma rather than increase it. For example, obesity, chronic pain, IBS-type symptoms, inflammation, depression, etc. are often framed as personal failure or "all in your head." Trauma research doesn't mean those conditions are imaginary or only emotional. It means chronic stress exposure may be one contributing factor among many.

I also completely agree with you that medicine can misuse these ideas and stop looking for real physical causes. That concern is valid. Trauma-informed care should expand medical thinking, not replace proper testing or investigation.

One reason I think this area is important scientifically is that researchers are starting to identify possible biological pathways linking early trauma and later illness. For example, one study found increased levels of the stress-responsive protein SGK1 in suicide brain tissue from people with childhood trauma histories, and mouse studies suggested that altering this pathway affected stress-related depressive behaviors. That doesn't mean "trauma causes all depression," but it does suggest there may eventually be more specific biological understanding of how severe early stress can become physically embedded. [Millette, A., van Dijk, M. T., Bagot, R. C., & Bhatt, D. L. (2025). Hippocampal SGK1 promotes vulnerability to depression-like behavior via early life stress and the NLRP3 inflammasome pathway. Molecular Psychiatry, 30, 1468–1479.]

So for me, the middle ground is:
physical illnesses are real medical conditions that deserve proper medical workup, AND chronic trauma can still meaningfully affect physiology and long-term health risk. 

[dollyvee]

That distinction matters to me because recognizing those associations can sometimes reduce shame and stigma rather than increase it. For example, obesity, chronic pain, IBS-type symptoms, inflammation, depression, etc. are often framed as personal failure or "all in your head." Trauma research doesn't mean those conditions are imaginary or only emotional. It means chronic stress exposure may be one contributing factor among many.

Exactly. You clarified the point that I was inherently making: that the need to connect trauma and illness is an emotional one, one that ultimately lessens the "emotional" burden of trauma, but is not necessarily scientifically proven as a direct link in all people. Therby peoples' attachments to this way of thinking is one driven by feelings as much as facts. When people have this kind of emotional attachment to something is becomes difficult to separate what is true from what we want to be true in order to help us feel better.

So, crossposting from another thread:

"what is important is to what extent the evidence exists to support all these claims, and is not just an idea to give one emotional comfort, which can then lead to misinformation."

I'm happy to speak on suicide as well as my father committed suicide and knowing my own history and my father's medical problems, we likely suffered from the same issues. I do not think suicide is a simple emotional, or genetic issue. Mold can bring out suicidal ideation in people with certain genetic susceptibilities. These are all complex issues which is why I stress for more evidence before saying it could be related to trauma and all the coritsol floating around.

[TheBigBlue]

Where I differ is that I don't see the trauma–health connection as merely an emotional comfort narrative. I think the evidence supports that chronic severe stress can influence physiology and long-term health risk, even if it is not deterministic or the sole cause.

For me, "trauma can contribute" and "trauma explains everything" are very different claims. I only support the first one.

I think we may simply weigh the current evidence differently, and that's okay.   

[Kizzie]

I also agree that the medical system lets us down, but not in the same regard. If I had chronic IBS, I would get a GI map done through a functional practitioner to see if they could pinpoint something that might help. Again, it's not saying that it's not not because of trauma, just that there are other alternatives to be explored, and perhaps there's a vested interest in the trauma narrative rather than exploring a physical root cause, which is my issue.

There is little to no knowledge by those in medicine about complex trauma and health and that's my point. There's no real evidence of a vested interest if they do not even know about it for the most part (which is what we found in our project).

As such, if the majority do not know to look at it as a potential cause of illness/disease how can we say either way? That is, what is and is not related to trauma when it comes to our physical health?

I say yes, yes, yes, to scientific rigour, considering alternatives, and so on, but also a big YES to more learning about CRT/CPTSD and research in medicine about whether and how traumatic stress impacts our physical health.

[Blueberry]

Dolly, I actually think I understand your concern, and I agree with an important part of it: physical symptoms should never be reduced to "just trauma," and people absolutely deserve proper medical investigation for genetic, immune, infectious, hormonal, environmental, gut, and other causes.

That goes without saying! So I'm sorry if what I wrote gave you, DollyVee, the idea that physical symptoms, or maybe even all physical symptoms, especially ones that are not yet really understood, could be "just trauma".

Conversely sometimes, and maybe even not so infrequently, there are physical symptoms where no doctor can find anything wrong. If you check ICD-10, number 45, then you can read about it in English and I don't need to translate and/or explain which is too much for my head atm, altho I do know what I want to say, I just can't formulate it rn and that won't get better in a couple of hours or tomorrow either.

Where I think Kizzie, I and others may not be as far from you as it sounds is this:

TBB, thank you for trying to bring the two sides together a bit in this debate. I think it's quite possible we're all not that far apart. Posts have been long and complex, also on the other thread about metabolism and it's easy for anyone myself included to go off on a tangent in regards to a particular sentence that wasn't even the main point and then some or all of us can hardly see the wood for the trees.

I'm happy to speak on suicide as well as my father committed suicide and knowing my own history and my father's medical problems, we likely suffered from the same issues. I do not think suicide is a simple emotional, or genetic issue. Mold can bring out suicidal ideation in people with certain genetic susceptibilities. These are all complex issues which is why I stress for more evidence before saying it could be related to trauma and all the coritsol floating around.

dollyvee, it sounds as if we both have very different experiences, maybe even almost polar opposite! So where you plead for more attention to what physical stuff (e.g. mold) can contribute to what is generally seen as an emotional problem (suicide or suicidal ideation), I have a lifetime of physical problems like pain but also extreme exhaustion and general weakness where no physical doctor could ever find a reason. So, in the 70s, 80s, 90s: too bad, you gotta live with it plus you should improve your diet, do more sports        it's (all) your own fault. Do more sports with chronic foot pain for which no doctor can find a reason? Yeah, right. Come early 2000s when I first was in intensive psychotherapy especially months of inpatient, bit by bit a lot became clear about why the pain was really there. Pain and weakness both came and went, altho nobody suggested it was "just in my head", because it wasn't, it was a reaction to all sorts going on around me and especially inside me, but not to anything physical like mold or allergens. In fact, my food allergy disappeared while I was there. I remember the situation exactly and can assure it was not because some mold appeared or disappeared. This sort of experience leads me to think the way I do particularly about my own health problems that to others may seem more physical in nature. It also leads me to share my experiences here on the forum. That's part of what the forum is about.

It was during that inpatient stay that I think I first got a diagnosis in the F45 range, unless my GP had already given it to me. I certainly left that stay with the diagnosis in the report. Needless to say, during an inpatient stay in psychosomatic medicine there are medical doctors as well as therapists and they're observing your interactions, for several months in my case, and I'd say they're pretty good in the main with discovering what else you may have other than depression. cptsd wasn't anything they diagnosed back then, although it was pretty clear how much my childhood had played a role, same for other patients. Interestingly enough, a lot of my physical pains have disappeared over the years in therapy and self-work. They still crop up but at least I'm no longer frightened of them. It can feel frightening when no doctor can find out what's wrong with you, and you just have to live with it! You're not even 30 and your body's breaking down, or feels that way! And then bit by bit it becomes clear "repressed emotional pain is coming out as physical pain."  /  "I can't take anything more on board, I can't swallow any crapola sentences, ideas etc etc anymore, I can't digest all this crapola coming at me...". I couldn't digest physically well, either. That's all cleared up. My diet in my late 20s-30s, even 40s was healthier than it is now in the main, yet the digestive problems have cleared up.

I feel while writing this that I need to justify that I have this F45 diagnosis and justify what I've written so far. It's triggering for me because I come from a family who always knew better than me (not really, but they acted as if) and could beat me in any argument because they had the scientific arguments or just because they could argue better. Lots of adults can argue better than a child or teen - better command of words, syntax etc etc, much further along in intellectual development, but it still doesn't mean those parents are always right. As I'm sure most of us on this forum would agree. Plus I already had developmental trauma by then, so arguing was harder, that's just how cptsd plays out in my case.

Dear dollyvee, I know you are not my parents or my elder brother or anybody else in my family. I know that you are not actually behaving like them, but nonetheless my feeling is - whatever I write, you're going to find a hole in my argument somewhere, because FOO did but this is how triggers work.

I'm wondering based on the tenacity with which you are arguing if you are maybe triggered too by something or other either in this discussion or with something to do with your own history as regards these topics? You don't have to tell me, I'm not asking, that's just what occurs to me with my years of experience in intensive trauma-trained group therapy. I'm not a professional, I could very well be wrong.

"what is important is to what extent the evidence exists to support all these claims, and is not just an idea to give one emotional comfort, which can then lead to misinformation."

I'm happy to speak on suicide as well as my father committed suicide and knowing my own history and my father's medical problems, we likely suffered from the same issues. I do not think suicide is a simple emotional, or genetic issue. Mold can bring out suicidal ideation in people with certain genetic susceptibilities. These are all complex issues which is why I stress for more evidence before saying it could be related to trauma and all the coritsol floating around.

I would imagine it's pretty tough to have a case of suicide in the family, your father no less, and to think it wasn't for emotional reasons, or at least not only emotional reasons. That if doctors had been clued up on mold issues, maybe your father wouldn't have gone the route he did. And then how different would your life have been! (Not that I know your details so much regarding your past, but just imagining the effect suicide often has on whole extended families). I could imagine doctors or people on this forum arguing for looking at the emotional side and less on the physical could bring up grief and be triggering. It may not be the case, and I'm very sorry if I'm overstepping, but that is my thought.

Undoubtedly I have not addressed all points and possibly not those that are most important to you, dollyvee, but we're on a support forum for cptsd, it's not a conference where we're a bunch of academics discussing mold versus trauma. 

Best,
Blueberry

[dollyvee]

Where I differ is that I don't see the trauma–health connection as merely an emotional comfort narrative. I think the evidence supports that chronic severe stress can influence physiology and long-term health risk, even if it is not deterministic or the sole cause.

TBB I'm not saying that it's merely an emotional comfort narrative and that the evidence doesn't exist. I'm saying that there is an attachment to a certain outcome, or to only look at one one side of the story because of this attachment, which means turning it back to the trauma narrative. Again, there is evidence that exists, but this evidence is also not applicable to everyone and there is variation in how it shows up for different people. So, "trauma informed care" needs a lot more detail behind exactly what that is and exactly how it is to be implemented IMO.

There is little to no knowledge by those in medicine about complex trauma and health and that's my point. There's no real evidence of a vested interest if they do not even know about it for the most part (which is what we found in our project).

And my point is that you are presenting only one side of an argument when people clearly have, or have had, underlying health concerns that are interacting with their emotional state. Again, the problem for me is that any time someone posts something with medical issues, or the idea to explore the medical side is brought up, there is not equal weight or consideration given to the fact that physical issues could also be real causes of the symptoms they are feeling.

Again, to me, it's not that I don't think doctors are aware of how stress impacts our physiology, it's that they are they to treat disease when it manifests and most people are already in a diseased state when they get to a doctor's office. Unless, like you say it's preventative, which again, is a very grey on how it impacts one genetically or will then show up in the body. A member did bring in the post where you spoke about advocating to the doctor, and the doctor didn't know what to do with it and simply asked her if she wanted a referral for a psychologist and, as I said before, I get why the doctor would be confused with what you're advocating for now as it stands.

BB - I responded to two of your posts correcting the intention that I had making the original post, which I feel like you has misconstrued and taken in a different direction then the one I was actually making. I am allowed to have a different opinion and to clarify it. I also found that after your second post, you then asked people to speak up in support of what you were saying (against) me as well as saying later if I was triggered while then explaining it seemed like I was your FOO who would tell you you were always wrong. So, do you think that perhaps it warrants some self awareness and reflection on your part because I think that what you're accusing me of is actually projection, and that somehow in this, you are making your self out to be the victim, and the one who is actually triggered?

Again, I want to thank ZR for his open minded response and was the only one who could actually see the point I was trying to make as well as stating that he felt like people were ganging up on me, which IMO, you guys kind of were. To me, this just further proves that there's an emotional attachment to seeing trauma in a specific medical light, but that's just me.

I also asked AI if it's ethical to present trauma as a cause for physical issues given the current evidence and this is what it said, which I think is important to consider:

It can be ethical in some contexts, but only if it's framed carefully, proportionally to the evidence, and without overstating causation.

The current evidence does support a meaningful relationship between psychological trauma and physical health outcomes. Research in fields like Psychoneuroimmunology, stress physiology, and epidemiology shows associations between adverse experiences and increased risk of conditions such as chronic pain, cardiovascular disease, gastrointestinal disorders, autoimmune symptoms, sleep problems, and some metabolic disorders. The best-known early work is the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study, which found strong statistical correlations between early adversity and later health problems.

But there are several ethical pitfalls:

* Correlation is not the same as proof of cause.
* Trauma is rarely the sole explanation for illness.
* Suggesting trauma as the cause can unintentionally discourage appropriate medical evaluation.
* Some patients may feel blamed, psychologized, or pressured into accepting a narrative that doesn't fit their experience.
* There is a long history of marginalized groups—especially women—having physical symptoms dismissed as "psychological."

So ethically responsible communication usually sounds more like:

"There is evidence that chronic stress and trauma can affect the body and may contribute to some physical conditions in some people."

rather than:

"Your illness is caused by unresolved trauma."

That distinction matters.

The evidence base is also uneven. For some conditions, like chronic pain syndromes, functional gastrointestinal disorders, or PTSD-related autonomic symptoms, the links are relatively well-supported. For many other diseases, claims made in popular trauma discourse go beyond what research can currently establish. Some books and influencers present trauma as a near-universal root cause of illness; that is not a scientific consensus.

There's also an autonomy issue. Ethically, people should be allowed to reject trauma-based interpretations of their symptoms without being treated as "in denial." A trauma framework can be helpful for some people and harmful for others.

A good ethical standard is:

* present trauma as one possible contributing factor,
* distinguish evidence levels clearly,
* avoid deterministic language,
* continue appropriate biomedical investigation,
* and avoid implying moral or psychological responsibility for illness.

In clinical settings, many professional organizations increasingly endorse "trauma-informed care," but that approach is mainly about recognizing that trauma can influence health and healthcare experiences—not assuming trauma explains every symptom.

[NarcKiddo]

In clinical settings, many professional organizations increasingly endorse "trauma-informed care," but that approach is mainly about recognizing that trauma can influence health and healthcare experiences—not assuming trauma explains every symptom.

Yes. However, if 'trauma-informed care' is not to become another box-ticking exercise then the medics need actually to be informed about trauma. Which they are not, currently, to any useful degree. To me that seems to be the main point being made by those who you feel are disagreeing with you.

You clarified the point that I was inherently making: that the need to connect trauma and illness is an emotional one, one that ultimately lessens the "emotional" burden of trauma, but is not necessarily scientifically proven as a direct link in all people. Therby peoples' attachments to this way of thinking is one driven by feelings as much as facts. When people have this kind of emotional attachment to something is becomes difficult to separate what is true from what we want to be true in order to help us feel better.

I don't understand your assertion that people are displaying an emotional attachment to trauma that can manifest as a desire for trauma to be at the root of their ailment so they can feel better. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your words. I can imagine there might be a subset of people who would like to be able to blame their abusers for all their current ills, but to desire that blame at the expense of not exploring medical possibilities seems a stretch in most cases. I don't think anyone is advocating trauma survivors lay all their ills at the feet of trauma and not seek medical answers. Maybe you are differentiating between physical and mental discomfort when you say 'feel better'?

I cannot see the harm in medics being far more aware than they currently are of the possible effects trauma has on our quality of life in terms of disease management and progression. The UK NHS considers the cost-effectiveness of medical interventions on the basis of "QALY"s. Quality Adjusted Life Years. QALY calculations are based on 'health-related quality of life' years that an intervention may promise. This includes both physical and psychological wellbeing. There are, after all, many diseases that cannot be cured but only managed. I have one. It was not caused by my FOO, though their behaviours over the years have undoubtedly contributed to the severity. I don't care about the root cause but I do care about management of the symptoms. Stress reactions are a significant factor but not one medic has even addressed the possibility of managing stress to me, even though it is well known and medically proven factor. The patients on the various forums I visit on the subject are busy helping each other and pointing out the link, but hardly any of their doctors have mentioned it to them. NHS programs exist to address this, and have specific modules on stress and panic management, but they are few and far between and not promoted by medics. I was marked down as 'unsuitable' for a program without a medic ever mentioning it to me or explaining why. I saw it in my medical records but have not the energy to complain as I rely on the goodwill of these medics to some extent. In any case I am able to do my own research and access help privately, but of course many are not that lucky. I suspect I was regarded as unsuitable because I go to the gym and the medics think it is simply an exercise program. So here we have a proven link, accepted by the NHS which does not accept things lightly, with programs to address it. And still the medics are not informed enough to use it.

On her deathbed my Gran said 'why am I not getting better?'. Her illness was likely nothing to do with trauma. She was in her 90s and, to be blunt, had to die of something at some stage. But that question must be being asked by trauma survivors who are doing their level best to find a medical answer without anyone considering that trauma could be a factor, and maybe one that could be addressed. In my case I know for sure physical and mental discomfort are heavily intertwined and one affects the other.

I am conscious you feel people were ganging up on you and conscious I have quoted you in making my points. I don't want to perpetuate any bad feelings you have, and hope I have not, but I am keenly interested in this topic and hope it can continue in a tolerable way for all participants.

[zen_racer]

Hey everyone.  I see this conversation is still going on, and I do think it's an interesting topic.  I'm still sorry for my reaction before, but I think everyone else probably understood it was an EF from my past before I ever did.

Anyway, I was wondering if you'd be open to my perspective on this.  My expertise is absolutely not medical in any way.  However, my job, and what I excel at is diagnosing automated industrial machinery, and involving every single system within them and connected to them.  Conceptually, it's not all that different from people.  There is a CPU (brain), sensors (nerves), actuators (muscles), frames (bones), bearings and moving parts (joints), pneumatics (airways), hydraulics (vascular system), visual inspection systems (eyes), communications with other machines (ears), etc.

I think I could conceptually explain, in my opinion, where trauma informed would count, and where it wouldn't from a perspective of diagnosis/treatment/root cause framework.  But I also don't want to intrude considering my previous reaction.

[NarcKiddo]

I think I could conceptually explain, in my opinion, where trauma informed would count, and where it wouldn't from a perspective of diagnosis/treatment/root cause framework.  But I also don't want to intrude considering my previous reaction.

I would be really interested to see that analysis if you are happy to contribute it. Although we are 'only' members of a forum it is a well-respected forum. Members here do have reach outside of the forum in all kinds of fields and I think it is great when we can pool our knowledge and look at a situation from all angles. Given the nature of trauma we do all run the risk of EFs and triggers when participating, but we know that goes with the territory and I hope we can generally give grace to ourselves and others when that happens. Thanks so much for the offer - but don't feel bad if you decide not to do your analysis after all.

[zen_racer]

Thank you NK. 

Okay, I'm not entirely used to writing things out like this anymore, so I apologize if this seems scattered.  I'm going to write it up as a theoretical overview, and then provide an example.

To me, the medical processes in question should be divided up into three main categories:
 1. Diagnosis - This is where I think that Trauma Informed has less significance.  I believe the evidence listed so far shows how trauma can indeed manifest in physical symptoms.  However, once it is at a stage where something is wrong, the "why" becomes less important.  I do think that Trauma Informed does come into play here, but more along the lines of how it will play out for the Treatment portion.  As a sort of preview, treating the patient behaviorally with respect, compassion, and awareness of triggers.  Partly just for appropriate bedside manner, but also so that the stress responses and whatever chemicals and reactions happening in the body doesn't throw off the results of tests while trying to figure out what's wrong.

 2. Treatment - This is where I think that Trauma Informed can absolutely make the experience and outcome better for the patient.  I don't know enough about medical processes to say how significantly this might change any specific treatment.  Maybe none in the case of something like a gallbladder going bad needing removal.  However, the appropriate bedside manners helping the patient have a more positive time will improve the outcome for almost any procedure or treatment.

3. Root Cause Analysis/Prevention - This is where I think it is immensely important.  Yes, there are all sorts of causes with genetics, environment, previous conditions, etc.  But this is where trauma and the stress caused from it could absolutely be the thing that pushes other organs, body parts, or processes just outside of the normal operating condition causing what will eventually become the condition being treated.


As my example, let's think of life as cars driving down a highway.  Let's think of trauma as the rumble strip along the side.  Everyone can see it, but most people just drive on by without ever paying attention to it.  One car though, our car, is always being driven with one side of the car on the rumble strip.  It makes noise, causes things in the car to shake out of place, but doesn't cause an immediate problem.  Other people may hear the noise from their car, maybe they just sort of know something is off but don't understand what, and no one ever lets us know that staying with the trauma is a problem.

Eventually, our car is going to start having problems.  Maybe it's wheel bearings, maybe it's suspension or brakes.  The constant vibrations will eventually cause a condition where we need to stop at a shop (doctor) to treat an issue.  At that point, the mechanic is unaware of our driving habits.  When he diagnoses the car, realistically, he doesn't need to understand why the wheel bearing, brakes, ball joints, or struts went bad.  He won't see the trauma, or know that's what has caused constant stress on the entire vehicle.  He can test each individual component, hopefully figure out exactly what's wrong (if he's good at it), and then come to us with a treatment plan.

Okay, I didn't fully think this through, because the benefits of Trauma Informed treatment don't really shine through in this example, but I don't think that was an issue here anyway.  Being treated respectfully and compassionately with care I think is fairly obvious in how it benefits us.

Editing to add - Okay, Trauma Informed treatment for example.  If, for the treatment portion, the mechanic (or doctor) is more informed in trauma, then maybe they would notice other symptoms.  In the example, maybe they notice loose bolts and everything shaking on the dashboard, or loose interior door panels.  Maybe they'd check wheel balance and find that only one side is out of whack and start wondering why.  Recognizing the patterns might help give cause for the Root Cause Analysis that sadly seems like it often doesn't happen in the medical world unless there are systemic issues timed closely enough to assume they might be related.

But lets just say the mechanic did find everything wrong except the trauma and fixes the issues.  We go back out driving on the highway, and 1000 miles later have another failure.  Maybe it's the rear instead of the front, or the other components that weren't worn enough before.  With root cause analysis to prevent further issues, then Trauma Informed care might be our best prevention of stopping recurring issues, or other issues cropping up.  Then it might be found that it is what is pushing our own organs and systems outside of normal operating parameters for long enough that physical issues can then be measured.

---Switching examples to my own experiences---

I am only recently discovering issues that are known about now, but weren't when I was growing up with them.  I'm only now starting remember more of the reality behind things that may have contributed to some of the medical problems I've had.  As for the issues, I've had my appendix fail, and needed emergency surgery.  This is known to just be a common thing, but no real explanation.  I've since had my gallbladder fail.  Similar kind of scenario.  Mine failed in a peculiar way of being low functioning at first, and then switching to hyperkinetic, but I believe there were symptoms that perfectly explain why that transition happened.  Because neither of these is out of the ordinary, it is not further studied.  I'm considered fixed.

But I also have an insanely fast metabolism.  The analysis of being Trauma Informed might find out that I did 200 situps every other night as a child too young to exercise that much.  That might lead to finding that I had learned to keep most of my muscles partially tensed as muscular armor for the physical abuse that was nearly constant.  That, in combination with constantly being hyper-aware and hyper-vigilant caused my metabolism to be increased for so long that I started having digestion/GI function issues.  Those issues may have gone on long enough, along with having other side effects from the constant stress to help push those organs into having problems.  And without me ever being treated for the trauma, might keep going and cause other issues or organ failures down the road.  Maybe it's my pancreas.  Maybe my lack of self care has kept me dehydrated for so long that I eventually have kidney problems.

Trauma Informed care might not change what procedure is done to remove the gallbladder, but it could be changed to keep me more calm and provide better recovery and not induce more trauma.  It could be used to stop or decrease further issues.

Sorry, I've gone on long enough.  Sorry if this is an odd write up, or if I went overboard.

[NarcKiddo]

Your example works well for me, ZR. If the driver lucks out, he would consult an experienced mechanic who would look at the overall condition of the vehicle, at least a little, rather than only concentrate on what's gone wrong. For example he might look at the tyre tread wear, not for 'trauma' damage but maybe to see if the car is close to needing new tyres which may as well be done this visit rather than coming back next month. And then he would likely notice there is more wear on one side. He might even then notice that the bearings he is to replace are on that same side. This could lead to discussions with the customer and a quick arrival at the root cause. If the driver is not so lucky the first visit but mechanics were trained to check previous repair logs (if only!) then future mechanics could well notice the pattern of the damage.

[zen_racer]

Your example works well for me, ZR. If the driver lucks out, he would consult an experienced mechanic who would look at the overall condition of the vehicle, at least a little, rather than only concentrate on what's gone wrong. For example he might look at the tyre tread wear, not for 'trauma' damage but maybe to see if the car is close to needing new tyres which may as well be done this visit rather than coming back next month. And then he would likely notice there is more wear on one side. He might even then notice that the bearings he is to replace are on that same side. This could lead to discussions with the customer and a quick arrival at the root cause. If the driver is not so lucky the first visit but mechanics were trained to check previous repair logs (if only!) then future mechanics could well notice the pattern of the damage.

I like the additions.  Further, if we wanted to include genetics, that could relate to things like "Oh, that car is known to have an issue with x".

I am not claiming that my take is perfect by any means.  Just relating how I view it as a kind of system analyst without taking the time to dig into specifics.

I know I apologize too much, but I still apologize if I over explained or went in a too weird direction.  I already know from life experience that sometimes the way my brain works isn't really accepted by other people.

Thank you for indulging my 2 cents. 

[dollyvee]

I don't understand your assertion that people are displaying an emotional attachment to trauma that can manifest as a desire for trauma to be at the root of their ailment so they can feel better.

I am saying that perhaps there is an inherent underlying bias that is present as most commenters here have only addressed the trauma side of the answer when people are discussing physical issues, or bring the issue back to trauma as a root cause.

NHS programs exist to address this, and have specific modules on stress and panic management, but they are few and far between and not promoted by medics. I was marked down as 'unsuitable' for a program without a medic ever mentioning it to me or explaining why. I saw it in my medical records but have not the energy to complain as I rely on the goodwill of these medics to some extent.

Of course there is a connection that exists, this is in regards to existing conditions and the management of symptoms. What we have been discussing, or at least the point I am trying to make, is that it's hard to pinpoint the origin of someone's medical issues as trauma. "Stress" and not trauma is also specified, which is a pretty big net. I also think that a lot of socio-economic conditions exist that cause trauma and stress and it's difficult perhaps for the NHS to manage these and only does what it can. Also, your doctor not recommending this could be just as much, or perhaps more likely, to do with an underfunded NHS and not with the doctor's particular view on how trauma influences health. Again, "trauma leads can lead to disease" is a pretty big net when trying to diagnose and treat someone. Doctors are also specifically trained to fight disease, or the symptoms that come up long after something has been in the works, which also gives a very limited scope on how other physical issues factors can be diagnosed. Doctors don't know about CIRS (chronic inflammatory response syndrome) and how it can send the body into overdrive, but looks to the outside like it's symptoms based on stress (hives, anxiety, chronic fatigue etc)

Again, my point is that yes these are intertwined but there is a lack of specificities showing what age these conditions develop, so that they can they be mitigated; how trauma affects different people genetically ie who is more gentically susceptible to stress, and is therefore more predisposed to developing side effects, how long does it take to develop this etc. and how do different factors like disease as a child etc play into the overall health picture. My big assumption right now is that a lot of these biochemical changes that we're discussing likely start rewiring when we are children, and there's very little that can be done about it at that time as it's up to the discretion of the very adults who are likely causing those conditions. So, it's like great, what can I do about it now?

Your post also ties into the other point I am trying to make, which is if trauma is suspected as a root cause how does that interpret one's treatment of their condition? ie do they stop looking for physical answers or solutions to what they're experiencing? Does everything then become, it's a manifestation of trauma? Ie this anxiety I'm experiencing, which could be caused by any number of physical conditions, then automatically becomes, it's trauma?

[dollyvee]

I don't know enough about medical processes to say how significantly this might change any specific treatment. 

Yes, there are all sorts of causes with genetics, environment, previous conditions, etc.  But this is where trauma and the stress caused from it could absolutely be the thing that pushes other organs, body parts, or processes just outside of the normal operating condition causing what will eventually become the condition being treated.

ZR I appreciate your post and the breaking down of the diagnostic framework. I understand that one's own medical issues lead one to find soltuions to what they're experiencing. Again, to me, the important part that is missing is the evidence tying these two things together. At the moment it is hypothesis, conjecture, and needs to be tested. So, it does make sense to handle something that way, but again the pertinent part for me is the evidence.

I don't know if you missed it, but I responded to the other post asking about hormones and the link between choline, metabolism, and the gall bladder. Just curious if you saw it, or wanted to share what those results were?

[zen_racer]

I don't know if you missed it, but I responded to the other post asking about hormones and the link between choline, metabolism, and the gall bladder. Just curious if you saw it, or wanted to share what those results were?

I did not see that, or I was distracted when I did.  When I was a child and checked out for the metabolism, I have no idea what they checked, but the result was absolutely no answer, and medicine for me to take when I'd get the sharp stabbing pain from not eating soon enough.

Throughout the rest of my life, I've had several times of going through various bloodwork and tests done for other things, and generally, everything was always good.  I've even had doctors tell me that my results seemed too perfect.  There has literally never been an answer for almost 50 years.

Just for kicks, I decided to see if there was a link between trauma, and the other odd thing I got as a child.  Nosebleeds.  And for a while, a LOT of nosebleeds, like 3-5 daily.  Was tested for that back then too.  Again, only answer was "He must have blood vessels really close to the skin and it gets dried out."

"Anecdotal and Clinical Evidence: Medical literature and patient communities report that children experiencing significant stressors, such as parental conflict or abuse, often exhibit clusters of daily nosebleeds that resolve when the psychological stress is managed or the traumatic environment is removed. While stress alone rarely causes direct bleeding, it significantly increases risk by exacerbating dryness, blood pressure fluctuations, and self-injurious behaviors."

When the only identified link can potentially be the underlying cause of every unexplained circumstance, that's a reason to look at that further, not throw out the idea.

The nosebleeds stopped when I graduated high school and almost immediately moved out of the house.  They tapered off in high school, but I also spent less time around my brother, he was preoccupied, and he also moved out as soon as he was 18.  I never noticed the timing of those events related like that before.