Flying monkeys

[beautywithin101]

I've been feeling really low and mostly just need to share. I've been stuck living with my sister and haven't had the energy to further plan my escape/relocation. I'm no contact with my malignant narcissist mom and enabling dad, who is most likely a covert narcissist (or is he just German? I don't know, either way his love is entirely conditional).

I have been really depressed and am losing hope, that fighting the fight is really worth it. It's so difficult to already be suffering the losses of family, to be grieving, trying to heal from the abuse and to then be blamed on top of that, for everything that is going down. Last week I got some messages on whatsapp from my Oma (dad's mom) who asked me, what the plan is, and that she hopes I can reach happiness. She seemed frantic, and worried about me, but I never replied because I knew it was just an attempt to control the narrative and berate me for going no contact with my dad specifically.

So today, I got a letter, where she wrote that she "She is deeply hurt and gets the message that I don't want anything to do with her either" since I didn't pick up the phone. She wrote: "How can it be that you turn to "friends" and shut out your own family? It could work for a while, but in the end you'll be alone, because they're always fake friends.". She claims I'll end up alone and helpless by shutting out my family, which is "invaluable and provides security". She finalised her letter by stating that she hopes I get back on the "right path" and that she's cutting me off financially because I am not responding to her.

I sent the letter into chat gpt and am aware that it's super manipulative, but it's super hurtful anyway. I feel so alone and am losing support left and right, from the few people I had left in my life. I know it's for the better that flying monkeys are cut off, but I don't know how much more I can take.   I need some advice: Should I respond to the letter and advocate for myself? Or is silence a good response? I've cut off the majority of my family by just "ghosting" them, because they are all incredibly manipulative and unable to see the damage they are doing. So I preemptively would just cut them off, and their responses I heard through the grapevine to this always proved my point of going no contact.

[Kizzie]

I need some advice: Should I respond to the letter and advocate for myself? Or is silence a good response?

Unfortunately we can't say one way or another because we don't know the dynamics of your relationship, her personality and whether she is an N, and how prepared you are emotionally if she comes back with more reasons why you should not give up you family, and based on how lonely you're feeling.

It's important to know these things about yourself and whether you can be your own best advocate, steady and firm about your side of things, the hurt you live with and why going No Contact was not really a choice but a necessity for your health and well-being. If you're unsteady in this regard at the moment, there is always time in the future to have the conversation. And if you are just too lonely at the moment to go NC, you need to consider that too.  Maybe going Low Contact would be better. 

Whatever you do, make sure it's something you can live with. 

[Blueberry]

Just want to say I feel for you, beautywithin. Tons of FOO shenanigans in my background too. I agree with Kizzie that nobody can tell you what to do. Other members' experiences can be useful though, they were to me too.

I have been NC with some FOO mbrs over the years/decades and then back in contact. I had two very awful experiences in FOO within the past 15 years, after one of which I was severely retraumatised to the point of 'leaving' myself, a form of dissociation I hadn't yet experienced and which continued for about 3 weeks. After the second awful experience (I refer to it on the forum as Horrendous FOO Event no.2 or similar), I went VLC with the whole of FOO. I didn't announce that to them, it just developed. It's hard, it's painful. I find it particularly sad with my small nieces and nephews because they're not actually part of the FOO dysfunction that exists in my generation and at least 2 previous generations.

In a certain way, your oma has a point I think about families being there for you and friends not. But only to a certain degree. First of all, some people do really well with a FOC family of choice - find a supportive life-partner who doesn't treat them the way FOO does. Maybe said life-partner comes from a fairly healthy family emotionally-speaking and so there aren't all these mind games going on. I don't have a partner, never have had, and I don't imagine my healing will ever get to the point where I can countenance something like that.

On the other hand, what your oma does not take into account or simply does not bother to mention is that there's often a VERY high price to pay emotionally and possibly otherwise for remaining in 'normal' contact with families like ours. Mine, yours, and plenty others here on the forum and not on the forum.  I don't think I need to list examples of the high price? You have your own examples of those. There are healthier families who don't expect their members or 1-2 particular mbrs to pay this high price. A family like mine will say: "You can't do that! You can't go NC with your mother for 3 months!" I'd asked for a break in communication, way way back before people talked about going NC or how to do it. What my FOO meant was: "This is unheard of and we can't handle it, it's not OK for you Blueberry to set your mother a limit. It's OK for us to do so but we need you as scapegoat, we need you to take the flak." That final sentence didn't come clear to me for a long, long time.

Your oma is also categorically wrong in stating that friends are fake. All friends   Come on! That's one of these all or nothing statements, possibly based on her perception of life but just not true!

What may unfortunately become true, since many of us here on the forum seem to notice with time: people we thought were really good friends, turn out not to be so good. But that is certainly partly because we haven't had good role models on how to choose emotionally healthy people, nor on setting limits of any sort. And also just that as we heal emotionally, our friends may not be quite so overjoyed that we no longer leap in and help when they need us, or that we no longer sit and listen to everything they say or all sorts of other small changes that we make on the way to healing. I've also had to say to occasional people in my past: you choose - me or FOO. You can't be friends with us both (cuz flying monkey). Tho in my case it was to people who were not from my past. They knew me as an adult and then FOO through me. And when I set my parents limits, these "friends" undermined my limits by giving my parents the information they wanted.

There are certainly good tools to use when going LC like Medium Chill over at our sister website https://outofthefog.website/what-to-do-2/2015/12/3/medium-chill
Personally it took me a long time to be able to apply these types of measures. Other people with cptsd seem to be able to do them quite quickly from what I've read here and on sister website OOTF. Maybe reading there will help too. You can search on here too, just reading old posts of how other people dealt with similar on this board or also maybe Letters of Recovery https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?board=43.0 where we have the chance to write what we really want to say to certain people but will never send because very counterproductive e.g. making oneself too vulnerable etc

Sorry, my posts tend to get rather long... I hope there's something useful in here for you. 

[beautywithin101]

Hey Kizzie, thank you for this thoughtful response, it really helped me figure out where I stand emotionally right now.

Some context would be that I'm pretty sure my Oma could be a N, as she is quite controlling and nitpicky. My behaviour towards her has always felt like fawning to me, and I felt I had to lie to her to keep up the relationship. She would check in occasionally to make sure I'm "on the right path", aka in college, which I am currently not able to. I also am 99% sure that with "friends" she meant literal family I stayed with last year, who took me in when I was at a low point after being repeatedly dragged through the mud by N family. That family I stayed with is real, and they are aware of the N family system and have also been scapegoated (for being trans, and for being unconventional), as she doesn't know any of my friends and I haven't told her of any of mine. I have only seen her twice in the last 3 years.

My number one priority right now, is getting to a safe place where I can unfold as my own person, college can follow (I'm taking advantage of healthcare and social support in Germany).

I feel like any conversation I open up to explain myself, would backfire, as the letter was very accusatory and manipulative, and she threatened to take away her financial support unless I take my family back, including my abusive parents. She only seems to accept one path, or one way of being, and I don't fit into that box. My dad did the same, and has stopped supporting me financially, so I am more or less on my own. I am happier on my own, I am grieving, but I feel free. I have been so sad and mad but I think I'm just finally feeling again, and am in therapy and have social support from a women's advocacy center that is helping me relocate (it's going slowly, but I will be okay).

I think the majority of my struggle now is that I honestly feel very guilty at the moment about how "easy" it is to sort out the family members who don't seem to care about my mental health, because it impacts me greatly.

I wish things were different but I see through the patterns quite clearly, I think I am likely on the spectrum, and that makes me want to protect myself even more and get the help I deserve. I need to set these clear boundaries of no contact for my future. I appreciate your insights greatly, and apologize if my messages aren't really clear or coherent, I'm still sorting out the extent of distance with my family, and would preferably just be totally on my own than have to explain myself over and over.

I'm willing to live with the loneliness and grief and being the villain, aka scapegoat. I've always been that in my family and I want to finally just be me. Maybe one day I'll feel strong enough to advocate for myself and explain the reasons for what I did, or to hold a speech about N family systems at a family gathering but not yet.  For now I just want to be left in peace. I really appreciate if you read this and you taking the time to respond and spreading hope.

[beautywithin101]

Hey Blueberry, thanks for responding, I was replying to Kizzie's message before I read your message. Please don't apologize, I appreciate all your insights and that you shared your own experiences!

Wow, that sounds like an intense and very telling experience. It is truly shocking, how much our bodies and brains are affected. And it's so important to believe our own reactions, that's what I take from your experience. The NC was also kind of an instinctual or survival reaction for me, it just happened. I like pretending that I am my own inner child's protector/parental figure, when it comes to setting boundaries: Would I let my younger self be around somebody like this? How would I respond if this was said to my mini-me? "It's OK for us to do so but we need you as scapegoat, we need you to take the flak." this definitely hits home, the hypocrisy is very evident in my FOO as well.

When it comes to friendships, I have become very aware of the dynamic of people pleasing I took onto myself, and that a lot of my friends don't understand the depths of my trauma and experience, and have even left me out because of me basically being a shell, which is kind of understandable. I'm a lone wolf right now, but have enough support from my FOC.

I appreciate that advice, and think that reading other people's experiences has given me insight and clarity on my own FOO situation. I feel for you, it's really hard to be scapegoated and having to navigate the boundaries of VLC and NC. I'm still figuring that out, I'm pretty young (21) and became aware of the shenanigans at around 12 probably which is why I've been distancing myself from my family steadily since I was around 17. I definitely relate to that "unheard of" statement, because of my age, I'm still basically my family's property in their eyes.

I was willing to go VLC with some family, but recent developments have shown that my FOO will stop at nothing to hurt me. It goes far, my mom and her sisters are all malignant N and have made me the scapegoat in our extended family, they openly discuss me and my private life with our extended family. I went to a reunion last year and had to cry every night because of how much I felt that most of my family, extended too, are likely N. I am afraid of what they're capable of, and there are generations of trauma in my FOO. This is why I am truly just trying to preemptively cut my losses and distance myself as much as possible from as much as possible family, I'm even considering taking legal steps to protect myself. All my therapists have told me, I basically escaped a cult. And that's why I'm taking "drastic" measures.

It's very unfortunate that people who knew your FOO through you, weren't able to "choose" you. I hope that you have other good people around you, or solid support from within.

Thanks for your response Blueberry and for including the links, I'll have to check them out. I definitely put more thought and time into this post, because I got onto my laptop instead of responding from my phone, so I was able to respond a bit better than to you, Kizzie, sorry.   

[Kizzie]

Some context would be that I'm pretty sure my Oma could be a N, as she is quite controlling and nitpicky. My behaviour towards her has always felt like fawning to me, and I felt I had to lie to her to keep up the relationship.

I thought as much given what you posted about her (i.e., that she is an N). I know in my life as I became an adult all the fawning (I did it too to keep the peace), and other strategies I used really began to take a toll on my health and well-being. It was when I figured out they were N's (in my 50's!) that I made the choice to go N/LC. Like most survivors I thought it was mostly me although I knew something was wrong with them as well, just not quite what.  It's one reason I started OOTS, so people can catch on earlier than alot of us here did and get the help they need and do what they need to to shed those who have abused/neglected them. The earlier on the better!

That's awesome you have a women's advocacy group behind you and now you have us so you're not quite as alone as some of us end up being, at least at first when we go NC. It's a terrible decision to have to make, leaving one's family behind. And then to mourn the loss of them because it's just not the natural order of things, family are meant to love us and we them but the reality is there are healthy families and abusive ones. In my case the freedom overcame the mourning and I hope the same is true for you.  It really sounds like you have a good idea of just who has the problem and what you need to do about making changes that help you have a healthier, happier life.