Thoughts on CPTSD and BPD

[Blueberry]

These are some thoughts of mine due to reading that other thread this evening https://www.cptsd.org/forum/index.php?topic=15736.0    AND listening to the session Navigating Trauma Triggers from Trauma Super Conference 4 https://www.consciouslife.com/conferences/tsc-4/sessions/navigating-trauma-triggers  The speaker in the session is Sander T. Jones, a therapist and survivor of cptsd and more specifically of the childhood variety.

He was talking about when we're triggered into Freeze. Ideally we need to get out of that again, for which movement is good - any movement. I know for myself even wiggling my fingers and toes is good. But then what happens is you're back in a state where Fight or Flight feel best. I know this well, I told my Occup. T. about this recently though not in those words because I didn't have that clarity. This is where certain forms of therapy come in, including DBT according to Sander Jones, to teach you to find and implement something that will calm your heart rate and then soothe you.

If I look back to the other inpatient place I was in with trauma and bpd groups, this is something they were working with us on: realising we were triggered or about to be triggered and seeing how we were coping - or at least the therapist would see. We were meant to juggle up to 5 balls at once. Some people didn't even start, others might have thrown the balls around the room for all I know or slammed them violently against a wall... I kept trying because we'd been told to do this, until I eventually asked if I could stop. The answer was non-committal but I did stop because of feeling so bad with all the internal negative voices. In retrospect, I'm not sure that about 10 patients plus one therapist who didn't tell us why we were doing this exercise was sensible, but whether bpd or cptsd, we were all working on the same thing. Recalling some of those with bpd, they were more likely go off the rails a bit, like throwing a ball hard against a wall or I remember one who when provoked by a couple of men kicked over a garbage can and left the room. None of it was really violent though. Some with bpd but also some with cptsd like me self-harm instead, as a general rule I mean, not necessarily in the juggling example.

So to go back to the session with Sander T. Jones, all those reactions with juggling are Fight and Flight, maybe some Fawning and some people maybe going back into Freeze, all brought on through a stressful situation, unless there was the odd professional juggler among the patients   The idea in healing is to move beyond Fight/Flight. [I don't even know myself whether self-harm counts as Fight of Flight or something else - it's one thing I use to come back from dissociation but also soothe myself into dissociation (don't ask...)]. So you have to practise moving out of Fight/Flight, calming your system. I am not a therapist, I have no significant knowledge so idk if therapists have different methods for people with bpd or cptsd. I can say with 95% certainty that methods differ among cptsd patients - not one size fits all.

There would be more to write on what Sander T. Jones said in general, but I can't get it together any more. Anyway, I immediately thought of this juggling example from way back when I watched his session. Maybe helpful for somebody. Or possibly helpful for somebody to realise that in at least one country bpd doesn't seem to be so stigmatised. Although here "bpd" is thrown around as a possible diagnosis if you've disagreed with a therapist or if you self-harm, but not necessarily by a specialist.
Sander T. Jones doesn't mention bpd. 

[NarcKiddo]

Thank you, Blueberry. I have just watched that video and I think it makes very helpful points in a very understandable way.

I have bookmarked it as something that I might ask my husband to watch at some point, since it explains many issues that I have not yet reached the point of being able to explain to him. Avoidant? Me??

[Phoebes]

Thanks, blueberry. Interesting for sure. This helps visualize what's going on. I know from experience my response to the juggling would likely be fawning and laughing at myself. Which I hate when I'm doing it. I know intellectually I don't have the skills to juggle 5 balls so why would I be able to? But, also feeling very exposed and on the spot if someone was expecting me to. Like I had to at least try. Ugh.there would be some dysregulation going on. Especially as a kid. I would have expected myself to know how to juggle.

[Blueberry]

I know from experience my response to the juggling would likely be fawning and laughing at myself. Which I hate when I'm doing it. I know intellectually I don't have the skills to juggle 5 balls so why would I be able to? But, also feeling very exposed and on the spot if someone was expecting me to. Like I had to at least try.

My old response to the juggling would have been laughing at myself and/or giggling hysterically.

Note: up to a max. of 5 balls! I undoubtedly started the hand motions with just one ball. I might have progressed to trying with two, but none of it was very successful, I do remember that.

I have often felt very exposed, though now mostly less often and to a lesser degree than say 20 years ago.