dollyvee's recovery journal

[Papa Coco]

Dolly!

OMG!!!! I agree with you to resist the temptation to minimize what happened. Teenagers are often just pranking, but in today's environment, there are a lot of VERY dangerous teens in the US now.

I would be absolutely terrified if that had happened to me. I hope the police do SOMETHING to try and keep that from happening again. And I hope Everyone in your building agrees to work together to stop it from happening again.

Suddenly my barking dog situation seems pretty darn unimportant.

Dolly, Like Armee, I'm shaking a bit in my boots at what happened to you. I SINCERELY hope it was just random acts of violent pranking and nothing more serious. I hope you can keep a phone by your bed now and be ready to call 911 if it ever happens again.

Your friend, PC: 

[dollyvee]

Thank you Armee & Papa Coco - it was scary and for so long I never had anyone to speak to about those things. So, I would just shove everything down no matter what it was and soldier through it. I'm trying to name stuff that's coming up emotionally even though I think it might still take me back to those places mentally when I was younger and had to do it all on my own. It does not feel great to feel those things though.

I contacted the police about the incident and they're following up. The neighbours downstairs got a look at them so something might be able to be done. The women next door was quite shaken by the incident as well.

Still trying to process things that are coming up. I feel "caught" in this flirtation that's going on a bit like a part of me (not really conscious) is doing everything "not to mess it up." Although, I don't even know what that really means. This should be the time where I'm figuring out if I like spending time with the person, wanting to get to know them better, but I think because I do like them my brain/body are on high alert for any signs of danger/rejection. There was an issue too with another woman around him where I became defensive because she has been pretty passive aggressive and petty towards me in the past. I got activated by this person and I felt like this guy went into protective mode and looked at me as if I was the problem. Normally, I have been not really jealous (and I wouldn't call this jealous though I'm pretty sure that's how it was interpreted), and we're both adults. We're not in a relationship and if he's going to flirt/date other people that's "fine," I mean up to a certain point of course, but I had to say no to her behaviour. Now I can't really get past that I feel like I'm being blamed for this to open up and be vulnerable. It would be ideal to talk about it, but I also don't feel like it's at the stage where I can do that. It's really activating the danger signals in my brain and I don't know if that's because I really can't trust this person or if it's my attachment system. And because I can't "solve" this, I think I'm just shutting down/deactivating in general with people, or being sort of angsty/agitated/anxious.

I think in the past people would have said "there shouldn't be any work in the beginning of a relationship," or something like that and I don't think those people knew anything about FA and what it's like. So, now I'm in my "if I was alone everything would be better; I feel much better alone" frame of mind and I think it's just to deal with those feelings that are coming up, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to deal with them in any other way.

I actually wrote a part of this post a few days ago but it felt overwhelming, that I didn't feel comfortable sharing or didn't trust my feelings at the time to post it. I don't know which one, probably a bit of each. Rereading it now, I think, yeah that makes sense. 

[Not Alone]

The people at your door sounds terrifying.

[Hope67]

Hi Dollyvee,
I'm glad that the police are following up on the incident that occurred the other day - I think it sounds scary, and I hope you won't have any further things happening like that. 

Hope 

[Papa Coco]

Dolly,

I'm feeling your pains around your new relationship. I'm impressed by how you are wondering how much of this distress is valid and how much is your trauma. That's a sign of a growing sense of real-life personal awareness.

Your own questions are probably 100% accurate. This other female really is trying to poison your time with this male. You're probably not imagining that. The fact that you can sense and identify how your trauma CPTSD is ramping up is also a sign that you are gaining a healthy awareness of the trauma responses, and you are properly trying to balance real life with trauma-drama. It's impressive. Just being aware of it shows that you're light years into the healing process. If you weren't so aware of how trauma works, you might have given up on this guy a long time ago.

I'm so on your side. I really hope you are able to keep moving forward, EFs and all, with some wonderful and fun times with this person of interest.

If you're not afraid, there's no need for courage. Courage moves us forward through the fear. I see you as a brilliant person who has been notably helpful to me in my own recovery. I hope you are able to balance reality with trauma. Both are real at this point. Only you can pick the feelings that are real versus the ones that are from past relationships.

You're smart and strong and I hope this guy is smart enough to see that in you too.

[dollyvee]

Thank you Hope & Not Alone - it was scary and I'm trying to acknowledge the part of my brain that I think wants to shut those feelings down.  So, thank you for helping me talk about them and validate them.

Thank you Papa Coco - that is validating to hear. I feel like so many people wold label me as jealous and that's that, and I think especially because it's quite passive aggressive so they can act innocent and sweet. Then, I'm triggered with all this stuff and I guess can't detach (the inner threat of aggression etc) so I guess I react in some way, or try to big myself up around it which only makes me look guilty. So, not only do I feel like I have to deal with this person's energy but "fight off" other peoples' perceptions of what is going on, and again, feeling like I'm on my own doing it. It's a pickle but I do think you're right that learning about trauma has helped me see this in a different way, with more perspective and less reactivity than before, and thank you for seeing that. Your reflections on things, and courage to keep trying, have also been very inspiring on the forum and for me.

Your last comment too brings out another direction. Yes, it would be great if he saw this too and is what I hope someone would do. It also brought up the thought that I don't want this, and maybe why I hide, because my sf was so jealous of me and would put me down and mock me, and maybe in part why I can't help treating relationships like a competition on some level. I'm just putting this down because I think relationships are a many layered minefield for people with cptsd and not that they aren't already for people who haven't had to go through any of this stuff.

I don't really know how to describe what's been happening the past week or so, that my brain has been in some kind of shut down and internally I just feel this push. I've been coming on the forum and reading posts, but there's just nothing really when it comes time to comment. It's hard to even recognize that it could be attachment stuff, it's just a push to do something, for answers, to get rid of the feelings and be safe. There is no open heart, considering the other person. I think I remember this feeling a lot growing up.

I read something about relationships and trust and how if your brain is stuck in "something could happen, something could go wrong etc" that they are right. Something could happen, that person could cheat (or pick someone else), or it could end, and that we can never be 100% certain of how someone chooses to use their own free will. They also said that instead of focusing on trusting the other person, what if you tried trusting yourself 100% - to be able to handle anything that happened further down the line, any negative emotion; to trust yourself and not have someone else's choices mean anything about your worth and value; to trust yourself to have your own back and be kind to yourself regardless of what anyone else chooses to do?

On my walk yesterday it came through that, no matter what happens I do have me and all the things I've done (and I can do it again?) if this were to end.  I guess it's some form of holding on, needing to make it work, needing that security, but it's so strong. It just blacks out everything else and it's not "fun," there's no lightheartedness or play that comes along being with someone, just a rigidity in needing to make something "work." It's probably a time when I need to take a step back and regulate myself but the push is so strong. I think there's so much around no being able to trust myself growing up that my feelings or reality weren't validated, so I just kind of dismiss them. Showing up for yourself is really hard when you tell yourself that it doesn't matter; to override the voices that told me I don't matter. This isn't even taking into account setting boundaries or identifying what I need in a partner.

[dollyvee]

Wow...these podcasts are really good. In relation to the post above from earlier today, I don't know why it's so hard to come out of that push feeling - that nothing is going to work out etc etc - when when I do I find things like this that really help sum up what I'm going through.

Connecting with Your Subconscious to Understand Your Defenses Session
https://therapistuncensored.com/episodes/disarming-human-defenses-connecting-with-your-subconscious-to-understand-your-defenses-session-5-of-5-187/

I think there's a lot in here and will take a bit of time/effort to put together projection and what's been coming up the past week in regards to the situation I wrote about, but one thing that did stand out and I would like to learn more about it is "ceding," which basically means to give up power.

Sort of paraphrasing here, but they explain that instead of holding self where you have to experience the distance between you and someone else, the experience of that distance is activating for you. Rather than deal with that tension which could mean I'm going to be judged, left, or abandoned, ceding is a way of giving over oneself. You're basically ceding your own needs to keep the other person happy for example. You're maybe going to avoid feeling your own empowerment (or doing things that give you empowerment for example like setting boundaries) and someone leaving if they're unhappy.

This tension coming up is through differentiation after you've said/done something/set a boundary where you've said I'm not going to let you do that, give you that. By saying no you have to accept all your inner desires (good and bad - greed etc). All these things whichh might hhave been disavowed as a child. This also applies to parents who might have been threatened by a child with a differentiated self like in a narcissistic family. For those children there was a very real outcome that if they didn't cede there would be have been rejection, judgement or rageful anger. So, there was a good reason we learned to cede. Also go into talking a little bit about how holding your own with difficult people requires healthy aggression.

I can see the situation with this other woman and there is a very real part of me that just wants to give up and give over because things would be easier that way. I think the experiences of dealing with m's narcissistic rage sort of freeze me into thinking that this is going to be the outcome, that it's too overpowering to stay in my own self. I think maybe the feeling that's been coming up is the tension of differentiation and my experience that every time I differentiate (have a need, make a boundary and stick with it), I'm going to be rejected or abandoned. I think it's also coming up that I can't control this tension or what's going on, that I have to allow space for other people to do their own thing, which is also really scary.

[dollyvee]

Still kind of dealing with these feelings in a sort of feeling purgatory I guess. I was feeling good after going to work and getting some space too.

I started reading Richard Schwartz's, "Are You The One You've Been Waiting For," and I can't believe that I "forgot" that this push feeling is probably a part. It's not all or nothing something, but a part's, or exile's, triggered reaction to what is going on. Realizing that I think is helping me step into Self a bit and see the forest for the trees.

"You come to hate the fact that you are acting so weak and clinging, and can see what it's doing to your partner, yet you can't stop yourself. Your inner critics frantically try to shame you out of it and try to lock up your exiles again, which only makes your exiles feel worse about themselves and more desperate, so they take over more. It's likely that David, like many men, hated his own needy exiles, so when he saw Elizabeth acting that way, he reacted to her the same way he reacted to his own—with distance and contempt." I think in the past this would have been left like this and I would have been blamed, and blamed myself, for the situation and that I caused it and then there is the pain that comes along with the awareness of knowing traumas and why the parts were acting like that in the first place and not having anyone understand, or even understand that you are/were trying the best you can back then and now. Yet somehow you still have that blame (shame?). I feel like this is where I'm at now and it feels so devastating. So I guess I understand the need to cling and is what I would have done in the past. I'm trying to see that maybe my parts activated this person's exiled parts where they don't want to feel this neediness in themselves because of their own experiences and need to distance themselves. Most importantly, that it's not about me.

Anyways, I'm glad there are these resources out there. Sometimes it's just so hard to discern what's going on when this stuff swells up inside us.

[Papa Coco]

Dolly

I feel so much empathy here. As I read your posts I feel a sense of chaos within myself. You're absolutely right that relationships are a minefield for C-PTSD survivors. And you're absolutely right that C-PTSD is complicating your place in this relationship. It takes magic for us Fawns to even know what we want. It takes more magic for us to get what we want, and then it takes even more magic to hold onto it.

We were raised in the shadow of narcissists who belittled every aspiration we ever verbalized. Narcissists humiliated us from their own narcissistic grandiosity when we failed at something and then humiliated us out of their narcissistic jealousy when we succeeded at something, or obtained something we wanted.

We were raised in a no-win scenario. Punished if we lose and punished if we win. No wonder so many of us don't know what we want.

Relationships are a minefield for everyone, but those of us with disordered pasts, struggle more with our internal battles.

---

I feel like so many people would label me as jealous and that's that, and I think especially because it's quite passive aggressive so they can act innocent and sweet. Then, I'm triggered with all this stuff and I guess can't detach (the inner threat of aggression etc) so I guess I react in some way, or try to big myself up around it which only makes me look guilty. So, not only do I feel like I have to deal with this person's energy but "fight off" other peoples' perceptions of what is going on, and again, feeling like I'm on my own doing it. It's a pickle but I do think you're right that learning about trauma has helped me see this in a different way, with more perspective and less reactivity than before, and thank you for seeing that.

I'm no stranger to the sentiment that drove you to write that quote. These types of "surround and conquer" narc attacks drive me into chaotic tornados of thought, and fear, and disgust, and defeat. They spin my brain like in a blender until I can't think straight anymore. Narcissists have turned the world against me more than a few times. Today, I'm driven mad when one person starts passive-aggressive attacks that only I can see, and then the flying monkeys rise up and believe the lies. People start taking the villain's side and the next thing I know I'm the pathetic "Erkle" star of the whole comedy show.

THIS PARAGRAPH IS MY OWN NONPROFESSIONAL OPPINION: Whenever this happens to any of us, we look guilty if we don't stand up for ourselves and look even guiltier if we do. That's where the C-PTSD EFs really come to life for me. People who don't suffer C-PTSD are victims of the same crimes, but those people aren't triggered into chaos. They're triggered into fight mode, and they continue to fight until they get what they want. Our disadvantage is that we have to come to terms with our own fight mode. Our former elders worked hard to confuse us into believing we didn't have the right to fight. Now today, we still don't know when it's appropriate to fight or to surrender.

But we do have the right to fight. We just have to make sure we're ready and well supported before we go into battle for what we want. We have the same rights to claim what's ours as anyone else has. We just were given some bad training early on.

Our parts love us, but they live in the past and only know how to protect us from danger that's been gone for decades. But I love my parts. They mean me no harm. They rally to help the instant I'm triggered. They bring back the fears that we lived through decades ago. And this is where I am more and more forced to rely on my courage, which is not the absence of fear but the ability to act through the fear.

I sincerely hope you are able to find the truth in this new relationship and are able to find your balance; when to fight and when to let the fight go on without you.

I'm sending all the positive thoughts I can your way in hopes that the confusion leaves you. I hope for you to be able to relax and see what's really happening, and that you can rise above the petty wars that this other woman is trying to instigate.

[dollyvee]

Thank you for the positive thoughts Papa Coco - There's a lot in what you said and I appreciate you sharing. I had a dream last night where I was in a space ship and this girl was trying to break inside. I was using the force field to try to stop her but it wasn't really working. Three troopers/soliders came up behind her and she killed them. Today I feel like the idea of this person is affecting my feelings about myself and I would like to distance myself from the whole thing. That she is breaching the ship I guess, and "winning." I saw this guy today and was cordial but also thought it's time to move on. I guess I feel like I'm being treated like an option, though there hasn't been good communication on my end. I don't know if it's the FA part of me, but I'm over it. It makes me sad and I'm trying not to think of it as a failure, but I can't do it - deal with women like this and feel like there might be some rejection.

I learned a lot and think I was looking for a protector in this guy, someone to save me from the crazy women. Sort of the way my dad saved me from the crazy behaviour of my mom. I've been trying to talk to my parts and let them know that I'm there for them to protect them, but I really relate to that inner chaos. I've been thinking about it and it reminds me of being young before my mom and dad divorced when I was two. I don't have any memories of that time and when I think of it, it's like the dark chaos. I think my mom cited my dad cheating on her as the reason for the divorce but I can imagine there was a lot of fighting and my m being my m, she might have latched onto that idea. It was a common theme in the family and my gm accused my gf of wanting to leave her for someone younger, and my gf accusing my gm of cheating as well. Lots of mistrust really, all around.

I think it makes a lot of sense about ceding that they talked about in the podcast I posted the other day. It's also almost as if it's ingrained and I expect that, or am used to thing playing out that way that it's not even a narcissist just regular power struggle (?) but inside it's like life or death, and I need to get people on my side because I know what's coming (not that I do that though). I don't know if I'm a fawn type, but more freeze, and it's like something switches in me to give over power when this stuff comes up. So, maybe I'm switching off and giving that girl power, or what she wants because I knew the consequences if I fought. Maybe that is a triggered response but I do the overwhelm at the thought of fighting. It just feels like too much. Maybe t and I can work on this with some EMDR. I am thankful for this experience though for what it was because I really think it helped me learn a lot about myself and sometimes people just aren't for each other.

[Papa Coco]

Dolly,

That was a pretty powerful dream. Like your brain is really processing this situation.

As one of your Forum friends I'll support any decision you make about whether to pursue this guy or not. I understand the value of surrendering something before it drags me through the mud. I also understand the value of fighting for what we want. Both are good choices. It's up to you how you feel about taking this one on. Will it drain you, or empower you? Only you know the answer to that question.  Having learned stuff about yourself through this is great. I often feel the gratitude for what I learned during unsavory times in life. I don't like the unsavory times, but the self-awareness and learning are always a good outcome.

My thoughts are on your side. I hope for happiness, no matter which direction you go with this guy.

[dollyvee]

Thank you PC for your comments 

It has brought up a lot of issues around my m and how I'm perceiving her actions in other people. I think maybe I'm learning that these are real things for me and maybe one of my needs is that someone has to be sensitive about this and I need to feel like they understand that. Although, this is my "stuff" and I do need to take care of it, but I don't know what the line is between taking care of that myself and expecting the other person to do it. What are needs? I've never been allowed to have any. I guess I'm thinking support during situations like this, but it's hard to explain the complexity to people like the situation below, where it just comes off as passive aggressive or that I'm being the problem. Or at least that's what's going on in my head, being worried about upsetting people by setting boundaries I guess. I think the step yesterday was maybe a boundary setting step and addressing those needs.

I guess I need to be the protector for myself against women like this (or people) but it feels so hard because it's like I just freeze up, or a part of me freezes up and then cedes power, or then starts to fawn/be overly nice (to someone that is treating me badly, or that I need to be weary of).

I had another dream a week or two weeks ago where this guy came and kissed me after I waited in line for a bit, and it was great. Not in an overly sexual way but with the feeling where you touch someone and it's just warm. The other part of the dream I was watching my suitcase roll down a hill but it was making all these 90 degree turns and going this strange route like it was possessed before it fell of a cliff. So, I guess I'm caught between something really nice and my "possessed baggage" that's maybe threatening to ruin that situation, but I am trying to follow my intuition. It just seems so conflicted.

[dollyvee]

Going through Are You The One You've Been Waiting For and some things are sticking out. Maybe worth mentioning here:

"Some clients, when they finally make contact with an exile, see an image of a child who is shriveled, zombie-like, staring into space, and unresponsive to their presence. These parts have been so devastated by losing the love of a caretaker that they give up on ever getting any love again. The loss may have come from neglect, rejection, or abandonment by a parent, or from a sudden death or other situational loss. Those events, especially if they are repeated, leave a child not only with the assumption that love will never last, but also with a conviction that the pain of losing it is so horrible that it is better to never open to it again. Such fatalism will keep you from risking true intimacy with anyone or, if you do take the risk of finding a partner, from ever really opening your heart to her."

I had an IFS a while ago where I needed to protect myself from my mother and there was a me part there that was blanked out. I never knew how to be safe from that mom part, if it would come back and haven't contacted that exile. It's interesting how much it relates to the feelings that have been coming up with the situation with this guy. I think it's probably scary for me to deal with that mom part because it feels outside myself, like I have no control over it, and I'm scared that me locking it up won't work.

He also goes into discuss attachment theory and exiles, and how our attachment style is usually mirrored in our exiles:

"The final group, those showing disorganized attachment, often were victims of abuse or of highly neglectful and unpredictable parenting. Those infants did strange things during the exercise, such as moving in circles, rocking back and forth, and entering a sort of frozen trance...I have noticed that clients' images of exiles fit the same categories that attachment theorists use with children...Still other exiles appear to be frozen, half-dead, devoid of any life force, or in a kind of frenzy when the client first sees them, similar to Ainsworth's disorganized infants."

It's interesting too, that sometimes I feel like I almost have internal OCD-like behaviours/thought patterns, but would never identify it as OCD.

[Larry]

    i hope you have a nice day today

[Papa Coco]

HI Dolly

Thank you for sharing all this. I am glad we have this forum where we trust each other enough to share such struggles.

I struggle with a bit of seeing IFS parts as you described; little girls or boys staring blankly as the world refuses to give them the love, self-esteem and care that they deserve. I can tie some of it back to my own childhood of being left out of everything at school and at home, and not being told why everyone else can have experiences but I can't. But I also beleive that it's just the compassion I was born with that makes me feel especially distraught at images of children being left out, not knowing why. The the image of the spaced out eyes of a neglected child torments me the most in my life. It breaks my heart more than any other image I know of. If I were an actor who was told to produce tears on demand, that would be the image I'd call up to make myself cry for the camera.

I also resonated with your comment about OCD. I don't have OCD either, but I do have OCD-like behaviors around making sure all my pantry item labels are facing forward, my toilet paper always rolls over the top, all three-way light switches are facing down if the lights are off, when I return my shopping cart I organize the shopping cart return so all the carts are lined-up and inter-connected as designed...silly little things like that. I attribute it to having grown up with no control over my own life. I was told what to wear, what haircut I would be forced to sit still for, what friends I was allowed to play with and for how long, what school I would be thrown into, what  after school activities I would not be allowed to participate in (Easy answer: ALL after school activities were banned for me), so in some small ways I try today to organize and control my personal space. For me, my OCD behaviors are about me looking to have some control over something small in my life. Arranging my soup cans gives me a chance to put my ducks in a row without offending anyone. For me it's a learned behavior, not an illness.

I meditate on / or pray for (whichever term means the most) you often. I know that relationships are a minefield for everyone, but especially for those of us who were those children with the spaced-out gazes as we watched our peers receive more respect than we were allowed to receive, and for no good reason.

I am thankful that you are allowing me to follow your story. I can't explain it better than this, but in my face-to-face relationships I truly care about my friends. I'm finding this to be true with my on-line friendships also. I find myself caring more than I thought I would about my peers on this forum. So, when I say I'm hoping for a positive outcome with this situation you're in, they aren't just words.

This hug carries some true energy in it. I hope it helps a bit.