reaching out not via responding

[radical]

I have no idea where to put this.  I don't think I've started a topic before.  It's so much safer to just join onto an existing conversation.  I realised I have derailed onto my own stuff sometimes because it's hard to post just about me.  I once said to someone (a few years ago) that I saw myself as a "responder".  I feel for other people and find it easy to respond to others, it makes me feel better.  It's also easier to talk about something once someone else has started the ball rolling.

I noticed yesterday that I had latched onto someone else's topic to try and say that I was really struggling, and that's not helping or fair.  It's selfish.  So I'm doing it the honest way and just talking about myself.

I've been seriously depressed the last little while.  I feel a bit better today.  I finally got some sleep the last couple of nights.  I had a good session with my therapist today.  I find it really difficult to be with her when I feel so vulnerable.  She insisted I stop talking about other people and talk about myself. I trusted her enough to have a bit of an argument about it.  It felt she was being unfair.  I talked about my relationship with her and how I felt afraid when I feel very low and vulnerable because i fear she will get angry and rejecting with me,  that she will be annoyed I'm not better than I am.  She said "I fear you're missing the good stuff" (in my relationship with her). and that i need to let her in, that my inner child needs me to care for her and to stop pushing her down.  These aren't the exact words, I was very emotional. I needed to cry.  I cried.  I trusted her.  She told me she cared very much about me and I could see and feel it.  I find it hard to feel that kind of thing.  It was healing.  She knows so much about me and has always been there for me, but letting go and crying and being cared for is so hard.  She gave me a hug.  I didn't really know how to accept it, but it mattered to me.  I have kept her at a safe distance in this.  I've briefly put my toe in the water, but never been able to go right in. There has been so much I have trusted her with, but my most vulnerable, lonely, child parts, I could never really trust anyone with.  I tend to push her away when I need her most.  I'm just looking for reasons to not trust, I latch onto little things.  All the trust we've built goes out the window and I'm defensive.  Today I talked about it and it was safe and healing.  Next week we will talk some more about it and it scares me.  I still fear that if I'm completely open I will be abandoned.   But I made a start.

I find it hard to write about this, but feel I need to solidify it.  Part of me wants to put myself down for being so needy.  But I'm not fine.  I wouldn't be here if I was.

I'm looking forward to my copy of Pete Walker's book to arrive from the US.  Any day now.

Hugs to you all.

[Whobuddy]

Wow and wow! This was a huge step for you and you handled it well. Thank you for sharing you therapy experience.

I can identify with all those emotions especially the fear of abandonment. When I share a lot I tend to feel what I think of as 'overshare shame.' You will love Pete Walker's book, I hope it comes soon. He writes about toxic shame, managing emotional flashbacks, the difficulty opening up and trusting. Some of it is on his website, too.

I hope my words help. I am wanting to be encouraging to you but like you, I doubt myself a lot and wonder if I have derailed the topic. As you say, we wouldn't be here if we were fine. I am glad you took the risk.

[Three Roses]

Wow, radical, that was awesome! You're an inspiration! 

So much hard work to trust again, and you've done it, and done it well! Good job

[woodsgnome]

I find myself in the same vibe, Radical. I had some recent episodes which seem similar to your experience, where I didn't feel like I truly wanted to overwhelm my therapist with my troubles. Duh-- --I mean, what gives if I disallow the therapist's therapeutic input?


Part of this of course stems from my lifelong distrust of anyone, countered by my core (albeit false) belief that I'm not worthy of anyone's attention, let alone help. And so I've tested this therapist to the same point as you, and finally realize she is indeed with me as I struggle to deal with all this pain. That's huge--as it didn't happen much with previous therapists.

You wrote another element of this that resonated deeply when you said: "She told me she cared very much about me and I could see and feel it.  I find it hard to feel that kind of thing.  It was healing." It is that, and so much more. Healing can seem elusive and definitely has been hard for me to accept; it falls into the category of 'maybe for others, but not for me'. So I fully understand your struggle, and the relief you felt when something finally broke through.

One note about 'latching' on to bring up your stuff within someone else's thread. Actually, it almost has to touch on the personal and is a natural shared point. Posts are meant to encourage interaction, I would think, and all most of us have to go by is our personal experiences and/or what we've read or seen. As long as the topic seems within the theme of the thread, and not heavy on top-down 'you should do it this way' advice. I think that the member guidelines for posting refers to that. Opinions are one thing, top-heavy advice can seem invalidating, easily  misconstrued, and/or even hurtful. In the end, this forum is all about sharing, it seems to me. Within that sharing, perhaps we can help each other find a part of that elusive healing.

[radical]

Whobuddy, that wasn't a derail.  Thank you for your kind response.  It helps to know others are in the same boat because a part of me wants to shut this all down.  I feel ashamed of being this way.

And thankyou Three Roses, especially since I have always admired your courage.

Woodsgnome, Before my session, I had thought a lot and had decided to discuss with my therapist the fact that when I felt at my most needy and depressed, I probably needed to not come to sessions because it usually ends in a mess, and I feel I aggravate her when I feel that way.

What I was doing was shutting down to avoid/preempt rejection which felt inevitable.  In ET mode I was just so defensive and I couldn't see past it.  I'd go it prepared for rejection and look for it everywhere.  Trust is huge for me.  I've never let anyone in when I've needed another the most.  I always believed that I only get if I don't need.  Needing always seemed to evoke contempt.  I've never known how to accept warmth and support when I've needed it.  Occasionally after the fact, never at the time.  I know I've pushed people away.  It just felt too risky. 

I feel afraid to continue with this.  I've been through some rough things, but accepting love and support in ET mode feels like the biggest fear.

Still feel ashamed writing this stuff, but determined to push through it.

Warm wishes to you all.

[sanmagic7]

radical, so glad you took the chance and wrote about what you're going through.  i think too many times we've been told that when we focus on ourselves, on what we want or need, we've been told that we're being selfish.  i've changed that to self-care.  i know i wasn't allowed to be selfish, to have anything for me, and i had to share everything i had, which included my knowledge, my time, my energy - everything!  but, i know now that sharing my own pain, my own experience, or, conversely, keeping my time, energy, knowledge for myself is self-ish, as in self-caring. 

you took a leap of faith, and i applaud you for it.  and, while you want to shut it down, you said you're going to push through.  good for you.  as i say to my dear friend who is also going through this crap, hang tough, baby!  i'm hanging right beside you!

here's a story i heard that i've found helpful during these times.  it's called 'the lion or the roar'.  it goes like this:   in the wild, lions hunt in packs.  the male goes to one side, the female goes to the other.  as a herd of animals begins coming toward them, the male, who has the biggest, most fearsome voice, begins roaring.  the animals become scared of this noise, and run away from it.  well, unfortunately, they run in the direction of the female, who is the true hunter and killer.  they run away from the noise which sounds dangerous directly into the real danger.

i've used this story many times when deciding what to do in my life.  between the choices i have, which is the lion, and which is the roar?  which is the real danger, and which is just a big noise?  you have chosen, by talking about yourself, airing your issues, seeking help and support, to stay away from the real danger of not speaking up.  you have walked toward the noise, which can't hurt you, but, ultimately, can help you.  kudos to you.

[radical]

Thank you Sanmagic7.
It brought tears to my eyes.
I will remember the story.  It captures the dilemma beautifully.

[sanmagic7]

you're quite welcome, radical.  i was happy to share it with you.