NatureLuvr's Journal 2024. *** TW. Strong Emotions, Describe Abuse

[natureluvr]

becoming curious enough to look at your narc sister's FB page wasn't a dumb thing. It was a natural thing to do.

Thank you for the reassurance, PC.  That helps. 

I'm not a fan of social media anyway.

Yea, FB is a narc playground.  Not everyone on there is a narc, but it's easy to see other posts on there and people make it look like they live the perfect, happy life. 

I think you're a wonderful human being and the people in your family who've turned away from you are literally missing out by not knowing you.

Thank you again, PC.  You are a kind, loving, warm, compassionate soul yourself, and your presence on here is a bright light.  I'm glad you are here.

Pray for their souls and let them live how they choose to live.

Excellent wisdom here.

she turned the family against me to get my share of our Dad's money when he died. She got the money. I got set free. I won that one.

Fantastic attitude.  I'm doing the same thing.  I'm pretty sure I will get nothing, and that is perfectly fine with me.  I don't need it - God has provided for me in other ways.  Even if I did get something, I may donate it to an organization that helps abused kids.  Or, give it to my younger sister, who will need it. 

[Papa Coco]

Natureluvr,

I'm just checking in to see how you are holding up. I remember the chaos and torture that my own FOO put me through, and I hope you are not being dragged along the way I was back when it happened to me.

I'm curious to how you're doing and hoping that you are finding personal strength from somewhere in your daily life. The strength is there for all of us. It's learning how to find and embrace that strength that keeps me afloat in this global sea of chaos and confusion.

I keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Maybe empathy is adding my own trauma to your drama, but for me, you getting through this and coming out stronger is important to me.  The School of Hard Knocks is a walk through the valley of the shadow of death, but when we graduate, whoooboy...we come out wiser and stronger.

[natureluvr]

Hi Papa Coco, it's been very busy around here.  Our youngest son just left to another part of the country for his first full time job yesterday. I also have a big vegetable garden, and that has been keeping me busy. 

I'm no contact with the narcissists in my FOO, so no I'm not being influenced by them at this time, at least not directly. I'm still healing and recovering from the trauma. I suspect I will be healing and recovering for the rest of my life.  I'm finding personal strength from my faith in God and spiritual life.  I listen to a podcast every morning called "Soulful Devotions", and it helps a great deal.

Here is a question.  Remember the leader of that birding group I talked about?  He is a big time trigger for me.  I talked about him a few weeks ago in this thread.  He can at times be antagonistic and irritable.  My husband doesn't get triggered by him, and my husband is frustrated that I no longer want to associate with this birding group because of him.  My husband thinks I'm being too avoidant by not wanting to go to the group.  My husband is correct, I am an avoidant person.  In the past 15 or so years, I've been pretty reclusive and house bound.  My goal is to try and become less avoidant, and get more involved in activities outside the house.  This guy is not majorly abusive, he is just an old curmudgeon.  He can sometimes be irritable and flippant.  For those of you who are older, think Archie Bunker from All in the Family from the 1970's. 

So the question is, do I go ahead and go to the birding group, and try to desensitize myself to this guy, or do I stay away from the birding group, and tell my husband he can go without me if he wishes?  Aside from this leader, I really enjoy the group, and there are other people in there who I like very much, and could become friends with. I very much enjoy birding, and this group is a good opportunity to do birding. 

[AphoticAtramentous]

He is a big time trigger for me.  I talked about him a few weeks ago in this thread.  He can at times be antagonistic and irritable.  My husband doesn't get triggered by him, and my husband is frustrated that I no longer want to associate with this birding group because of him.

It's maybe a little difficult to judge alone but I'd try to evaluate whether this is a "universal" discomfort (as in, do other folks also feel uncomfortable by their behaviour?) or is it only uncomfortable because of said triggers . Because even if you weren't getting triggered by him, is he someone that you or others would want to be around? Regardless of triggers, some people unfortunately can still be difficult to be around. I commend your desire to try and confront your triggers, but I would personally encourage that further assessment when making your decision! It could be that they give off red flags for a good reason, or simply you are not compatible with them from a personality perspective.

But I say this from my experience in social groups where there have been occasional people that I simply did not get along with, triggers or not - and that's a natural part of social life. I think then it's up to your personal judgement, do the comforts of the others outweigh the discomforts of the one bad apple?

This is just my own personal recommendation though, not forcing you to look into any of this!

Regards,
Aphotic.

[natureluvr]

I don't know if other people feel uncomfortable with his behavior.  He has his favorites in the group.  He is a walking bird encyclopedia, and doesn't respect those of us who are newer at birding, such as my husband and me.  Personally, I suspect that a normal person without CPTSD would find his behavior rude and disrespectful, but probably wouldn't get triggered to the extent that I do.  I personally find him to be very arrogant, and he has a tendency to shame people for complaining about the weather, or for not being specific enough when describing where a bird is, or for being late to the group.  He seems to jump someone's case for trivial things.  He not only gets irritated, he talks down to people with contempt when he is irritated.  I find contempt to be very toxic and shaming.  However, as a caveat I will say I'm very sensitive to the slightest hint of contempt.

Here is an example.  One guy complained because there was a hawk flying in the sky, but he couldn't see it because it was close to the sun.  In a sarcastic way, the leader said "Well, I can't move the sun". 

When I'm in the group, I feel the need to avoid him, and walk on eggshells.  This is not very healthy, and it feels similar to being back in my FOO.  No, he isn't someone I would want to be around, even if I didn't have the triggers. 

I'm still torn as to what to do.  My husband keeps trying to convince me he is just a crotchety old man.  Maybe he is, I don't know.  My husband wants to keep going because he likes a lot of the other people in the group, and I do too.  However, my husband has a tendency to downplay and minimize problems.  For now, I'll avoid him and the group.  I'm in an emotinally fragile state at the time.  Maybe someday down the road, I'll try again.  I don't want to do it just because my husband pressures me.  But it's hard for me to know if maybe I'm seeing this leader through a distorted lens, and I'm doing the repetition compulsion, because I'm maybe projecting a lot of bad feelings about my mother onto him.  Does this make sense?

[dollyvee]

Hi natureluvr,

I understand you're feeling torn about what you're experiencing. My t used to say that I had no witness growing up, that there was no one there for me to confirm my reality and what I was thinking and feeling. So, I think this is a big reason I look to other people to validate what I'm seeing about other people for example.

To me, I would say that what matters here are your feelings. You didn't have a go at the man for being his curmudgeon self, it doesn't sound like you're trying to stop your husband from going to the group, or lay a guilt trip because he's doing so. It sounds like you simply want time away from this man to process your feelings in regards to his behaviour. This doesn't seem unreasonable. All of the above could be true and you could be being avoidant, his behaviour could be out of line etc etc, but I would say that what matters is processing your feelings about it and what being around people like that does to you. It might be a good thing to discuss with your t. I think growing up in a narcissistic household, we're taught to deny our feelings and we end up gaslighting ourselves about certain things. There's certain feelings we weren't allowed to have (ie boundaries), so setting them can feel foreign and we can second guess ourselves when we do.

I hope you're able to talk about it with your husband as well and I'm sorry that he's pressuring you about it.

Sending you support,
dolly

[AphoticAtramentous]

I'm still torn as to what to do.  My husband keeps trying to convince me he is just a crotchety old man.  Maybe he is, I don't know.  My husband wants to keep going because he likes a lot of the other people in the group, and I do too.  However, my husband has a tendency to downplay and minimize problems.  For now, I'll avoid him and the group.  I'm in an emotinally fragile state at the time.  Maybe someday down the road, I'll try again.  I don't want to do it just because my husband pressures me.  But it's hard for me to know if maybe I'm seeing this leader through a distorted lens, and I'm doing the repetition compulsion, because I'm maybe projecting a lot of bad feelings about my mother onto him.  Does this make sense?

Thanks for describing all this. I think personally that if you are uncomfortable with this individual and it's affecting your enjoyment in going, then you shouldn't force yourself to go. Regardless of your triggers, this individual sounds rather... unpleasant to be around! I certainly wouldn't subject myself to that! Ideally I feel that your husband should be respectful of your boundaries. If he's pressuring because he wants to spend time together with you, I'm sure there's plenty of other things that you two can do together that are more enjoyable and stress-free. But I'm just guessing the advice here, I do not know your full situation so please don't feel forced to take any of what I say.

Regards,
Aphotic.

[natureluvr]

Hello everyone, I haven't been in here in a very long time. Not because of anything that went wrong here, I just drifted away with other priorities. 

I'm sorry to say, that the relationships with one of my 2 sisters is not going well.  All 3 of my siblings have varying degrees of narcissism, and histrionic PD.  Although there is not obvious overt abuse, there are other toxic patterns going on. 

My younger sister, I'll call her Mg, I believe has histrionic PD. 

1) I've set strong boundaries with MG not to talk about our young sister K, who is a narcissist, yet she keeps bringing her up, and when I remind her I don't want to hear about her, she says she forgot.

2) every time I talk to her, it is completely negative, it is all about her and her problems.  She exaggerates and lies about things, and it's just drama and chaos continually.  I've tried setting boundaries on this without coming right out and bluntly telling her all she does is complain and dump. 

3) she offers me no support or care at all, and the relationship is a one way street.  Not once in the last 5 or 6 months has she even asked me how I'm doing, or shown any interest in me or my life.

When I get off the phone with her, I feel drained, stressed, and depressed.  My energy is depleted.  I think she is an energy vampire.  In the past, she has said and done vicious things to me, and I think it may only be a matter of time before she reverts back to that. I'm really starting to resent this very much. 

Overall, I feel she is playing the victim, and being manipulative, which HPD people will do. My intuition is telling me that my energy is being sucked by an energy vampire.  HPD is a cluster B personality disorder, and has a lot in common with narcissism. 

So, I'm considering going back to no contact, or at least extremely limited contact.  Truthfully, I'm in a fragile and vulnerable place right now with my own healing, and this is setting me back.

I would love to have some supportive feedback about this.  I have found a very good therapist who is very knowledgeable about NPD families. I will discuss this with her the next time I talk to her.

[natureluvr]

I had a very honest talk with my sister Mg, and she was open and receptive to it! She agreed with me, and said that yes, she did have a tendency to dump.  So, I'm feeling much better about it.  I know this will not just stop because I said something about it, but at least I was able to share my truth with her, and she listened and respected what I had to say.  This is a very good sign.  She is in recovery for alcoholism, and her sponsor had told her the same things I told her, which helps a lot.  Now, I will have to be strong enough to set a boundary when she does this again in the future.  My T gave me some very good suggestions for how to do this, which I've written down. 

[Hope67]

Hi natureluvr,
I am glad that your T has been helpful.  It is great that you were able to have a very honest talk with your sister Mg and so good that she was open and receptive to that.  Sounds really good.  I'm glad you're feeling much better about it.
Hope

[natureluvr]

I've been really infrequent and spotty with coming in here and journalling.  I need to realize I'm doing this for myself, and not to people please.  Thanks, Hope, for the support from May.  It has been a very busy summer - a driving trip to Connecticut from the midwest, and being busy with my yard and garden. 

I made the mistake of getting back together with my older sister, who is a narcissist, 2.5 years ago.  At the time, I was very lonely, and was remembering some of the good times we had had as kids and teenagers.  When we first got together, I though it was OK, but in retrospect, the "apology" she made to me was more making excuses, and shifting the blame for how she mistreated me to another family member, and playing the victim.  (I was ostracized from my entire FOO in the 1980's when I got married, because I didn't let my malignant narc mom control the entire wedding.  No one in the family went to the wedding, and my parents and 3 siblings refused to speak to me for over a year.  Talk about a painful way to start out married life.) To this day, I've had an extremely distant relationship with my FOO, and went no contact with all of them in 2021, because of a lot of toxic crap that happened in 2020 and 2021.  They have done so much emotional and psychological abuse to me all of my life, but I was hoping that as we have aged and are in our 60's, that at least 2 of my siblings would have grown out of the nonsense. 

Because I'm no contact with my very abusive mom and younger sister, who are both high level narcs, and I've had such a distant relationship with my niece and nephews, I chose not to attend my nephew's wedding in June, because I knew the stress of dealing with my narc mom plus traveling just wouldn't be worth it.  I have almost no relationship with anyone in my family anyway, because of having been ostracized, and having CPTSD makes it difficult for me to relate to them, and this wedding happening just brought up a lot of hurt and sadness.  Then when I spoke to my sister, the mother of my nephew the other day, she rubbed my face in the fact that she was so blessed to be able to be with all the relatives, and it was like a big happy family reunion, knowing that I was unable to attend because of the extensive psychological damage that was done to me by this same family.  I'm very fearful of conflict, because in the past, any type of disagreement with them resulted in such painful abuse, that I didn't even say anything to her about it.  She did some other condescending BS, and also boasted about how she was so blessed by this that and the other.  All this has brought up a lot of anger, and I realize she is still abusing me emotionally and psychologically.  I realize I've made a mistake allowing her into my life.  I'm trying not to beat myself up about it.  I think I need to go no contact with her again, or at least very limited contact.  I can see very clearly that narcissists never change, and they will just keep abusing people.  I put in a call to my T, and will talk about all of this with her.  I did a lot of journaling about it this afternoon, which really helped to diffuse a lot of the anger and rage I have about being so unfairly scapegoated all of my life by these toxic, nasty people.  Narcissists really are despicable people. 

[natureluvr]

I spoke to my older sister, and let her know that hearing her talk about what a wonderful time she had talking with the family after the wedding was painful for me to hear about, considering I was unable to go to the wedding, because of the circumstances of the family. (I'm no contact with my malignant narc mom, and younger sis).  This triggered a great deal of anger in me, and before I spoke up to my sister, I spent a long time journaling and getting out a lot of anger and rage at had at her.  Thankfully, she said she was sad and sorry that it was painful, and that she understood.   This doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to fully trust her, because she has said and done a lot of hurtful things in the past. I had spent many years in therapy dealing with my anger and hurt about the severe abuse and neglect I had from my mom, but never much therapy time dealing with my anger towards my oldest sister. I'm setting up an appointment to talk to my T about all of this.  Another thing I want to talk to my T about, is the fact that as the scapegoat of a narc family cult, I was trained to be very submissive.  Until I moved out of my parents house in my 20's, I had to sit there and take all the abuse without saying anything, and without showing any emotion.  This training has had a bad effect on me.  It has made me an easy target for other predatory people in my adult life.  I'm currently going to Al Anon meetings, and have a very supportive sponsor who is giving me the courage and strength to set better boundaries with people.  I've become aware that I"m absolutely scared of conflict, and will avoid it.  I need to work on getting the courage to stand up for myself and set boundaries anyway, so that I don't end up being such an easy target.  I think this would really help me. 

[Hope67]

Your driving trip to Connecticut from the midwest sounds epic.

I related to what you said about boundaries, and I'm glad you have a supportive sponsor.