I am confused, scared and frustrated

[Sceal]

I am trying to learn about dissociation. But each time I think I got a handle on it, I realize I don't.  I ask some more questions, and I'm back to not understanding anything!

The basic's I get. That the Person has fragmented parts. Sometimes called Apparent Normal Person and Emotional Person.
And that the fragmented parts occured due to being part of, or witnessing an event that was/is too overwhelming or threatening to deal with. So the ANP fragments the experience into an EP so the ANP doesn't have to deal with it, or a way to protect the Self from harm. Kind of. And therefor has little or no memory of it.  This makes sense to the logical part of me, the academic part of me. And I guess to a degree the emotional part of me.

Also everyone dissociate to a lesser degree. Apparently. Fade out, temporarily loss of focus. Zombiefied, or whatnot.

But what I don't understand is this: How do I know that I'm dissociating if my ANP can't remember or tell that I am dissociating?
When I've been described the controlling EP version, I feel it sounds alot similar to an Inner Critic. Is it the same? If not, then what is the difference? And is inner children a form of dissociation? If so, then how is the ANP aware of them?  And how can you intergrate your EP's if your ANP doesn't want to accept or confront or realize that there are EP's?
And if I aren't dissociating when I "fade out" and lose track of time, be it a few minutes to a few hours - then what is that? Some other form of defence mechanism?

and so many other questions. I realize that these are all questions I should ask my T. But everytime I ask for more information I just get more confused. I've heard that Ellert Nijenhuis is a leading person within dissociation. I just learned his name so I haven't explored his webpage yet. But I'm also scared to, because my brain isn't ready to do more academic reading. It really isn't.

[Whobuddy]

I am sorry to hear that you are confused, scared, and frustrated. 

I am not any kind of expert on dissociation by any means. But I have heard a couple of things that may explain the confusion. Some dissociation comes with amnesia in that one does not remember blocks of time during the dissociation. But other types of dissociation do not have loss of memory.

Another thing that I have learned is that experts disagree about the particulars of dissociation and even its definition. Some therapists have a very broad definition in that even getting 'lost' while watching a tv show or reading a good book is included. Others do not consider dissociation to be anything less than outright episodes that include having no memory of substantial blocks of time. So if you are confused about it that might be why. It is a confusing topic.

[DecimalRocket]

Well, I don't consider myself an expert on dissociation, but I'll try to offer my perspective on how I understand it. I understand things more quickly than others after all, at least intellectually. Emotionally, I'm trusting that perspective to you.

Well, on how to tell if you're dissociating, I don't really think of it as something either totally dissociated or grounded. When you're deeply dissociated, it can be difficult to really be aware of it, but as time passes, less severe events of dissociation can come.

When I slowly become aware of the signs of being partly dissociated, my experience is that I'll be able to act more quickly before being entirely dissociated. Maybe even prevent it, or at least lessen its duration or severity. Usually I make regular checks on my memory to see if I've forgotten something important without knowing to see if I'm disscioating.

Hmm, the EP version and inner critic sounds different to me. An EP is a part of you and being an inner critic can be what it does. It holds a certain identity separate from being a critic that can connect to how it can be a critic. We say words and do actions, but we're not our actions and words. We're bigger than the sum of our parts, and the same understanding goes to EPs.

Inner children are severe dissociations when you're not aware of them as a whole. But being aware of yourself, and them together is not.

This is why we try to get to know all of your fragmented parts so you can be a whole. This doesn't mean you still won't see yourself in parts. But that you're aware that these parts are not just parts, but make a whole. There's a difference between bricks placed randomly on the ground and bricks organized to form a house.



From books on fragmented identities and archetypes, I heard it's easier to get a part of you talking when you're kind to it. Accepting of it, and willing to listen to its ideas. Otherwise, like any relationship in real life, trust takes time and effort. Love takes time and effort. It's less of something that's complex to do, but needs a stable effort of consistency to do.

Sceal, feel free to ask more questions. I can answer back if I have the strength to do so, but if not, I bet someone will stop by.

[Hope67]

Hi Sceal,
I am just going to write what Torey Hayden said in her book 'Twilight Children' about Dissociation - and my apologies if it's perhaps just saying things you already know, but for me, I was reading that book yesterday to help Little Hope, and somehow the writing was helpful:

"The problem with dissociation as a disorder is that dissociation itself is a continuum behaviour from mild on one end to severe on the other, and every single person is on this continuum.  Dissociation is normal, and everyone dissociates.  Any time we become so absorbed in an activity where we lose track of what's happening around us, that is dissociation.  Most adults experience it regularly while driving - they become involved thinking about supper or their job or their family or even something so mundane as what to buy at the grocery store and lose awareness of driving their vehicle.  They don't lose control of the vehicle.  They just stop seeing the road and the surrounding environment and see instead what is in their heads.  They are able to drive perfectly well on "automatic pilot" and will snap out of their thoughts at the first indication of needing to give more attention to the road, but during the time they are "lost in thought", they have no cognitive awareness of the stretch of road they've just driven.  This is normal behaviour.  Everyone does it.  And like all behaviour, there is a huge variation in "normal".  Some people dissociate hardly at all; others dissociate easily and frequently.  Both can be effective adults and perfectly normal.

It is also normal to dissociate in stressful situations, to try to subvert pain or a negative situation by "thinking of something else".  Indeed, this is generally considered a good thing; self-help books show us ways to do it effectively; parents often encourage children to cope in this manner; and people who show such abilities are often regarded as creative, adaptive, or intelligent.  So the question is not, do you dissociate or not?  Or even, how much do you dissociate?  Rather it is, at what point on the continuum does it move from being resourceful and helpful to maladaptive and damaging?  This is a difficult question to answer, not least because that point isn't in the same place for all people, and not all dissociated states, even on the far end of the spectrum, are bad.

Multiple personality disorder in childhood is an even more complicated issue.  As part of normal imaginative play, most children dissociate easily and, indeed, quite completely, to try out different identities as police officers, astronauts, cowboys, parents.  Likewise, many healthy, well-adapted children have imaginary companions who show a different personality from the child.  Some construct whole imaginary worlds, elaborately detailed and peopled with a diversity of characters.  These creations can last throughout childhood, adolescence, and even adulthood without any implication of psychological disturbance.  On the other hand, there are completely unrelated organic factors - drugs, allergies, physical illnesses - that can also cause dramatic behaviour changes that mimic dissociation, such as the inability to recall events, abrupt changes in attention span, or "cloudy" thinking.  So multiple personality disorder isn't a straightforward diagnosis to make."

Torey Hayden then spoke to a psychiatrist, as she was reviewing some video tape of a child with him, and the psychiatrist (Dave Menotti) said this "Even when a child has a diagnosis of MPD, it isn't  very common to have clearly defined alter egos.  That is more of an adult phenomenon.  The alter tends to become more complex and significant as the individual matures.  I'm not sure why, whether is is simply part of the maturational process and reaching abstract thinking levels, or whether it is because the behaviour becomes entrenched."

He went on to say "In my experience, however, the alters are quite nebulous in most children.  Not really 'peronalities' per se.  Which makes them harder to track down, harder to recognize.  But it also usually makes them easier to reintegrate with the main personality, because they haven't become so detached."

Tory asked him "There's a very high correlation between MPD and severe trauma, isn't there?"  and he nodded and replied "More than just severe trauma.  It usually implies repeated severe trauma.  Trauma of the sort the child perceives as life-threatening.  And that the kid can't get away from.  That keeps happening over and over again with no real opportunity to heal in between.  Yeah.  I think in the nineties - 96, 98 percent of kids with MPD have suffered that level of abuse".

Sceal - I realise that you weren't asking about the more severe end of the dissociative spectrum, but I wanted to just be 'complete' in writing all the section of the book that was about dissociation - as I found it helpful myself, and felt that if I missed any bit of that out, that it might not be so meaningful.

I don't know if it's helpful to you or not, but I just wanted to share it, as I was reading the book yesterday, and remembered that Torey had written helpfully about 'dissociation' and that it had been helpful to me and to Little Hope.

to you Sceal.

Hope