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I am totally fascinated by this topic - if you are interested to read more I can recommend this book on the topic:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Are-Our-Brains-Alzheimers/dp/0241003725/ref=sr_1_1/275-7022742-9935763?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1416917455&sr=1-1

I do not know where your headaches are coming from (obviously -  ) but I understand a little what you might be going through. When I was 'deprogramming' from my cult experience, I had headaches for months - no physical reason. They receded little by little while I became more comfortable in my 'new' (= authentic, free of cult programming) way of thinking.

In a way, you are also 'reprogramming' your way of thinking and feeling while you're coming out of the FOG. Give yourself (and your brains) time to readjust and be comfortable again. 

 

I am so sorry you had such a rough life with your m. You did not deserve this kind of treatment! 

I don't have anything to offer except let you know that I believe you and that you are not alone with your memories: My narc mother was mostly passive aggressive, but sometimes she would drop the passive part. Triggers! She would use her hands or anything else that was in her way (wooden ladle, broom....). When I was 16 years old, I put a stop to her physical abuse of me (I distinctly remember that scene in the kitchen): She was about to slap me in the face again but by now I was taller and fitter than she was so I stopped her hand just before it hit my right cheek, held it firmly, looked her straight in the eye and said: "This was the last time you ever tried to hit me. I am taller, I am stronger and I will hit you back." --- Of course, though it stopped her physical abuse of me, it only made her think of other ways to torture me...

Narc mothers are cruel mothers - on many, many levels...

Kudos to you on your journey to healing. 

kf

Love her TED talks. Thanks for posting!

Put shame in a petry dish and pour empathy over it... Powerful image!

Then she informed me that my sister would be hosting our family Christmas this year on Boxing Day [...]

So I messaged my sister and told her I couldn't make that date. No response as of yet. And why did I message my sister? Because my mom told me to, as if she is not the one responsible for making these decisions (she very much is the one in charge, due to her personality).

She makes me feel so controlled and uncared for. But I know if I tell her that, she will turn it around on me, and I'm not ready yet to have that conversation.

Hi, sandals,

sorry you have to deal with this. 

I've been there - done it - got no Tshirt....

It sounds like classic triangulation to me and is a tactic narc mothers like to use in order to create sibling rivalry and deep mistrust between siblings. It's very effective and extremely erosive for the relationship between siblings.

Here's a link about this topic: http://www.narcissisticmother.com/how-narcissistic-mothers-create-sibling-rivalry

I understand why you are reluctant to go NC with your m. It's probably one of the toughest decisions I ever made and it's taken me more than 5 years of trying to set boundaries and going lower and lower LC before I finally cut the cord. I did it to protect myself and my child (second was born later) from further harm and I don't regret it.

It sounds like your m and siblings are regrouping because you refused to obey their 'command' regarding christmas. Be prepared for ST, hoovering, angry attacks (probably coming from your sibling on behalf of your m - narcs never do the dirty work themselves if they can find someone else to do it for them...) and all the other tricks in the narc book to try to get you back in line (be also careful that they don't approach your children behind your back in an effort to turn them against you. Since triangulation works so well in your FOO system, it's a distinct possibility).

Think about what you and your kids want to do in this holiday season and then stick to your guns. Take good care of yourself and your kids. 

Best wishes, kf

Seeing this thread coming back alive was quite a surprise. 

Gracious to tell a child that "Crying = Being a Mental Case."   Emotions Are Insanity.   

Lovely mother there ...like NOT!   So very sick.    NPD.


I have a question for you, and for Cat ...have either of you considered a side career of translating these books to English, such as Niemandskinderen, for the authors?

Seems like you've met my mother, Rain.  She is a covert NPD, very passive-aggressive and sometimes she drops the 'passive' part... I've been NC with her for 13+ years now but the smear campaigns still continue (...perfect way to portrait herself as the 'victim' again... )

Maybe it would be a good idea to contact Carolien Roodvoet and ask her if she and her publisher might consider an English version of her book(s) She has written at least 2 books though I've only ever read the one. The reviews of the other one are also quite good. "Niemandskinderen" is a very powerful book, IMO.

I was distressed to read about your misdiagnosis and the consequences for you. The medical profession can be as harmful as it is helpful sometimes. I've been through that too. It takes a good long while to fit everything together again and forge ahead. How are you feeling these days?

 

I am so sorry you also had bad experiences with the medical profession. 

So many good people in that profession and yet one rotten apple can seriously harm you, body and soul.

I am doing better now, thank you for asking.  'Living' more than 'existing' only. I still have to take meds to deal with the aftermath of that misdiagnosis (which was on Feb. 17th 2013!). The meds are working well but slowly and the side effects are decidedly not nice and some of them might be permanent. I don't let myself worry about that now - I try to focus on the things I can do again and am grateful for every bit of health and mobility that came back already. I can even work out again (not the same programme as before but still!) which also provides a good 'flight' response on occasion. 

Best wishes to both of you! 

kf

Hi, zazu,

wow - that is a powerful conversation you had with your IC - her message is loud and clear. I feel so sorry for the little girl - how can parents (and siblings) be so cruel to her! 

My thoughts on this:

The grown up you have certainly gained a healthier self image and got rid of the negative messages that your IC still believes, so I thought about the major difference between a 7 yo child and an adult and I think the answer is in the cognitive ability:

The part of your brain where (most of) the cognitive functions are stored (as far as I understand, I'm no expert, mind!) doesn't develop until early puberty and is 'finished' by your early twenties. So you cannot reason with your IC the same way you can with your adult self, but on a more fundamental and emotional level: Send her the messages that your parents should have send her but never did. She deserves that!

Some messages she might need to hear are:

- You look cute today in that [...] outfit.
- You have the prettiest smile I've ever seen.
- You are a very pretty girl and will grow into a beautiful woman some day.

Gain her trust, reassure her, cuddle her and tell her all the things she should have heard back then but never did. (You've actually already build up a strong relationship of trust with her if she opens up to you the way she does! That is such a strong foundation for IC work!  )

(On a side note: I am nowhere near as advanced in my IC work as you are but I have 2 DDs myself and those are the kind of messages I tell them)

Kudos to you!

kf

Hi, Kizzie,

glad you and your inner child are doing so well. 

Keep on spoiling the both of you.

Cheers! kf

Hi, margerys pet,

nice to meet you on this forum!

I'm sorry you are dealing with EFs and sleeping problems right now. That's tough!  It all just adds up, doesn't it?

The good news is that dealing with CPTSD is not always as intense as it is now - it comes and goes in waves, some are higher and more intense than others - but there'll also be calmer waters in your future.

It sounds like you've got good professional help irl.  I hope that knowing you're not alone will also help you - CPTSD can feel so isolating and here are a lot of people who empathise and understand what you're saying. 

Best wishes!

kf

Hi, Laurel,

nice to meet you on this forum. 

I am also ex-cult so I can relate to some of the experiences you're describing; especially the mind control a cult gains over you (my parents joined a cult when I was 22 months old so I grew up in it and left it about a decade ago together with my h and kids).

Ex-cult victims are quite often (mis)diagnosed with bipolar or multiple personality disorder, as far as I know. Are you familiar with Steven Hassan's "Freedom of mind" site? https://www.freedomofmind.com/ The book by the same title and his site have helped me a lot in my efforts to deal with the aftermath of my cult experience. I found his approach also helpful in dealing with my CPTSD.

Yes, I do know cptsd is not included in the DSM, and that the DSM is a hot topic in some circles - at the very least I think most people will agree it is flawed. I'm not sure how that will play into my attempts at a re-diagnosis.

Rain, I might be mistaken since English is not my first language, but the way I understand it Laurel is saying that most people will agree that the DSM is flawed, not CPTSD. That would make a lot more sense to me.

Laurel, I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts.

Best wishes on your journey towards healing. 

kf

Very life affirming.

Thanks for the link, BH! 

In the heat of the battle, we crumble. I've found that the most devastating mistakes happen when I am in a vulnerable position (a crisis)
[..]I cannot make good decisions while in crisis!
[...] Sometimes just living a stable life is as good as it gets. Then, we can challenge 1 negative trait at a time. Looking back, my life has been a series of multiple crises. I only briefly get stable then go back to the chaos

I hear you - sounds like my life. Although it's not only life choices that tend to send my thoughts into chaos... 

Lately, my decision making skills have improved a little. To avoid the chaos, I have started asking myself one question: "Is this an important decision or is this an urgent decision?" (They both feel exactly the same to me so this helps me breathe, focus and think again....). In the chaos I was brought up in, I was never given the chance to learn to distinguish between the two so I'm doing it now.

Turns out, almost no decisions are both important and urgent and some decisions are neither. How come I never knew? 

Where does this idea about wanting to marry whenever in crisis come from? - That puzzles me a bit but I've probably missed something somewhere...

It's certainly out of the box but an interesting approach, I think.

If a (biological) cause could be found, next step would be to look for a treatment that treats the cause instead of just the symptoms.

Wouldn't that be nice?!?

This research isn't - strictly speaking - about CPTSD but about major depression and anxiety disorders which are also related to/part of CPTSD in many cases. I hope it's okay to post it here. It caught my interest since I've had episodes of both depression and anxiety myself and they are related to my CPTSD.

http://www.biolmoodanxietydisord.com/content/4/1/10

Good article, BH!

#4: Recognize that these patterns don't just go away because you've become aware of them.  You have to change behavior.  Open yourself to new truths, new values, new experiences, and new people.  Do new things, new ways.

It's such a shame that becoming aware of the patterns of your own behavior (particularly in attracting toxic people) isn't enough to make it stop! We'd all be done with it and have moved on by now if that were the case... 

I just ordered this book that Schrödinger's cat recommended on another thread:

http://www.amazon.com/Stalking-Soul-Marie-France-Hirigoyen/dp/188558699X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1413363758&sr=8-1&keywords=hirigoyen

It'll be here this weekend. Very excited! (I'll let you know what my impressions are in a week or so  ).