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Hi all -

I've been self-employed for a long time now... Reading through posts here I realize I probably chose this path because working with others triggered me too much (and I only realized the reasons why a year ago, because of my CPTSD diagnosis, but it makes so much sense).

I work with clients online from home as a writer. Today one of my most money-making clients abruptly ended our working relationship, citing "budgetary and resource constraints" all by message of course. I really do not like actually talking with clients face to face or on phone, it can really stress me out, I feel like every time they would hear my voice or even see what I look like, a voice in my head tells me "they will immediately question why they even work with you when they actually come in contact with your personality in real life... "

I fight thoughts like this often... And this client dropping me (though it could be related to coronavirus affecting economy...I try to tell myself this is the more likely scenario!) has me reeling and picking myself apart about how/why it was my fault it happened. I kind of followed up about working with them again in the future when things are better, but received nothing in response.

Do I charge too much? Am I really not worth the money to them? Did I rub them wrong, even through messages? Was I too difficult? Did they only let me go and keep everyone else? Am I doomed in this line of work because of who I innately am?

These questions plague me... How do you all combat the self-doubt, the picking yourself apart when there could be more objective reasons for certain things happening at your work or in your career? I can't seem to shake it, on top of the very real financial worries. Thoughts appreciated... And thank you 

Alice-in-Wonderland.... I'm having the same thing right now; but it's been going on a week. Ugh!

I'm new here, new to Pete Walker's tips about inner/outer critic, but have had a really rough time "internalizing" that advice enough to drown out the voice this week.... Which can be so loud... Echoing opinions/sentiments of my FOO.... And even though logic tells me it can't possibly be true, there's the voice in the back saying "maybe it is....?"

I try to stop listening but the feelings are still there...

Just know you're not alone...

And we'll get back in top of it eventually....

Thank you for the kind words Bach, and for your empathy. Writing here did help! I'm considering a recovery letter/journal but it seems like so much work....

And thank you too, Kizzie, especially for the Out of the FOG suggestion...I will have to check that out. Do you have any specific recommendations?

I'm still very much in those stages of trying to convince myself (sometimes successfully...sometimes unsuccessfully...) that the way my family sees me and my life might not be the truth. It's like my logical brain knows they're not right, but the deep emotional/heart of me doesn't, it's freaking out. I feel like I must be mean, selfish, and ungrateful if this is happening: if they're distancing from me, OK with losing me, pressuring me to change myself and my life, or if they indeed think I am a mean person just for saying the truth, then they're right. I'm wrong.

If I'm finally losing one of the few - arguably even one of the only - emotional rocks in my life I never thought I would lose, then this means I must have done something wrong and I must be the one to back down and fix it all. Though that doesn't feel right...it's the only clarity I have to hang onto, is a vague feeling that this is all so unfair, though it's easy for my brain to say "maybe it is fair and you're just kidding yourself."

Or maybe I never noticed that my sister's fawning behavior went this deep with family members all along? And I've always kidded myself that we had this closeness, and she's gone against my trust all my life (it's possible), and reality is finally just surfacing. Torn about going LC or NC with my younger sister... I feel so bad for her about what life will be like for her when it happens (getting sucked up into the family dynamics by herself). But I guess her "fawning" could mean she never had true empathy for me (if she broke my trust and feels she can do certain things in our friendship/relationship, but I can't)?

And if someone isn't empathizing with my situation, I need to empathize with myself first or no one will....

What hits me so hard about this is that I have so very few other people. I feel so alone. I have my husband, though being supportive in an emotional sense at every turn is not his forte. (Very supportive in other ways tho). But if my husband and I disagree or even have a small fight, or if one of the both of us is grumpy, the thought that I don't have anybody else (no family) somewhere out there in the universe for support can make me spiral out for days at at time with EF's, shame, guilt, and no one to talk to but a therapist. And I feel crazy.

Anyways, thanks y'all and thank you for your responses 

[On the bright side, I had my younger sister's support...for a time.]

Hi all - this is the first topic I've ever started... I'm nervous. But I think the pain and loneliness of what I'm experiencing is far greater than my fear. I'd love some advice...or anything...or to hear if someone else went through something like this that is/was similar, just so I feel less alone. (I'm also so sorry if this is long...)

I was diagnosed C-PTSD last winter and I'm in therapy. Over the last year, I've slowly been opening up and confronting some family members about it and its many causes, but it's not gone well (and reading through all the FOO I finally have an idea of how common this really is).

I was the SG for my older siblings while they themselves experienced many shades of abuse/neglect from our parents, which I also experienced too. I was very much shamed for being emotional in any way, shape, or form, often singled out/ganged up on for this a lot – and for my entire life, the unspoken family "story"/"rule" is that only my older sister experienced abuse/neglect, the rest of us turned out just fine (not true, as I discovered going to therapy last year...)

Despite the healing this diagnosis has brought to my life, the denial/manipulation is so re-triggering. Unexplained flashbacks have improved, but now family is a new and bewildering source of triggers, during recovery, and it interferes deeply with my life regularly now. It's definitely beaten up my marriage...bless hubby for being so resilient (the reason I sought treatment/diagnosis in the first place: saving my marriage, as my husband would, unknowingly to both of us, trigger me with some things).

On the bright side, I had my younger sister's support...for a time. She has been the only real good, close, and safe relationship I've had with a family member (though to be honest, I always felt close to my mom and older sister, but since opening up about my mental health, this illusion shattered). We've even considered ourselves best friends since high school and have been extremely close. We could be ourselves around one another, talk about anything, and feel mutually like we never experienced judgment. We looked after each other better than all other members of our family imho.

But then things began to change. She's always been a bit of a people pleaser, a chameleon, showing different faces to different people. I began to see fawning/enabling traits in her around family members and the more I learned about family dynamics/roles. But I never thought it would go down this road. Even though I've mostly trusted her and felt we could talk openly/honestly about other family members (and about pretty much anything under the sky), I outright asked for her confidence and to keep things from my mom and older sister for now, so I could talk/ease them into the topic more slowly when they were ready, and so no one could get hurt.

Then communications with my mother and other sister started to get strange, as if they were addressing things she told them about what I told her. Worse, they both started to manipulate/guilt me with it - especially my older sister (who I suspect is uNPD), who tried to devolve me and my younger sister's relationship into "me using her as my therapist."  I think she might have been jealous of our sister relationship for a long time - though we had a fairly close relationship ourselves talking about her issues very frequently, before she started alienating me and pushing me away.

During an intense marathon conversation a few months ago, she said more stuff that seemed based on things I'd only told my younger sister. Based on things my younger sister told older sister too, she tried to project all my problems onto my husband and paint him as an abuser, and then said we were both "mean people" (because my husband confronted her on saying racially problematic things a couple times and I didn't get involved). The worst part: she questioned/minimized memories of my abuse/neglect that would come anywhere near to what she experienced.  She also undermined it all by claiming I wasn't seeing the right therapist, even though she had been through this very same thing with other FOO and aired these very same types of grievances with me before I was diagnosed. (So this all could have only happened to her...? Impossible that it could have happened to me?)

My mom, on the other hand, just played the "guilt" hand: acting sad, hurt, the one who had truly been wronged (and this happened out of nowhere before I even talked to her about anything), and then completely avoided the subject and went out of her way not to talk to me much, but especially about this. I skipped family holidays this year for protection from all this, and got very negative reactions when I did. Nothing but a sense of hurt and from her, no sympathy, as if trying to goad me into saying "I'm sorry" and "Are you alright?" (When I never got those questions from her/older sister amidst all this).

When I next saw my younger sister after all that (back in November before the holidays) she admitted to me that she did betray my trust. I didn't even make her feel bad about it or guilt her, but expressed how saddened I was that she was so overwhelmed she felt the need to vent to family members who weren't ready to hear about this yet—and that I had to hear it from them, which was really hard for me. I didn't express to her that they were using what she told them in hurtful/manipulative ways because I didn't want to even come close to "talking trash" (and she could possibly tell them all that, too, and this would all just become worse). I told her she could always trust me and be honest with me, and speak her true feelings (and have never given her reason not to!). I didn't want this to be a blow for her...in fact, I want to be a good older sibling to her, to let her know that my love for her is unconditional when my love from other family members has been conditional.

She burst into tears saying she had been overwhelmed (understandable!) because my revelations really change the family narrative, and it is a shock. I comforted her and gave her my sympathy/empathy (funny how I'm doing all the comforting...). But I received nothing from her in return that gave me any notion she felt regret or remorse for breaking my trust.

In fact, since then, she has been defensive of other family members, has somewhat echoed hurtful things my uNPD older sister said to me (even projecting onto my husband too as if he's an abuser, even asking if he hit me??? which is ridiculous - and all this based on talking about the things he does that unknowingly trigger me). She even became angry with me after a text exchange discussing things between me and my mother (after which she asked that we don't see each other for a month because she was overwhelmed, a request I respected without complaint or batting an eye).

I can't help but think she's been talking to all of them behind my back about everything and that breaking my trust wasn't ever because she was overwhelmed. It's because she secretly disagrees with my experiences, or someone is influencing her to be skeptical....my older sister? My mother? . We've always had a trusting relationship, why would she be scared to open up about being overwhelmed now? It all didn't add up.

Everything since that moment has been different. I'm feeling like I've lost my best and most supportive friend, my younger sister, someone I considered a "rock" my whole life, to the influence/toxicity of other family members. I wonder if this is her way of trying to run around, please everyone, make us all happy, true to a "fawning" nature I see in her more and more.

I sometimes feel like I'm breaking and that this is all my fault. I'm torn between providing her with a positive presence to counteract the toxic ones from other family members, and being increasingly more and more triggered by the loss of trust, having EF's afterward that debilitate me and affect my marriage. I'm also deeply torn between LC or moving towards NC with little sister, and it's breaking my heart....especially because I've never been close with anyone as I have with her, besides my husband, and I have very severe issues with closeness and trust. I feel alone and desolate and without family. And often wonder if I'm going crazy.

I had an especially bad EF the other day when little sister suddenly opened up about her own relationship problems with her BF. Then, she said, "Please keep this from mom and don't tell her." After she broke my confidence? After she shared details about my relationship and lots of other things, and I asked her not to....and then that info I told her was used to shame/guilt me/undermine my progress?

Sorry for this long and messy message. This has really been tearing me apart...advice, commiseration, perspective, anyone who's been through the same thing, I'm all ears. Is she just fawning? Or is there some NPD I never noticed (in my mom too)? Or both fawning and NPD? Or should I not distance myself? But what about the triggers and EFs caused by her that are increasing when I'm mostly doing well at other times...?

One of the very few things I thought I'd never lose in my life, I'm losing...thoughts appreciated.... and thank you in advance 

So... Im new to all this.
Just begining to wonder if it's possible to unravel my past without my present  world falling apart.

Hi OceanStar and welcome

I just want to say that this sounds so much like my thought processes especially when I first was diagnosed and approaching "getting better." I have often felt like my present world was falling apart. And I still do sometimes.

Instead what I've found is that that "falling apart" feeling is just that.... a feeling...when in reality the unnecessary is getting stripped away as you heal, open up, and face the truth, and then the unnecessary is replaced with something better, even if it is hard and scary and out of my control....

But I'm glad to be here and I'm glad others are here, it seems to get better the more you try. So give yourself credit for that

Welcome Bella  

So sorry to hear about that therapist. I had to switch therapists at first too to get any progress, my first was negligent...

Like Pete Walker (CPTSD specialist says), I think for proper treatment therapists require empathy! Otherwise there isn't progress and clients feel unsafe, and the trauma continues.....and therapists should explore all possibilities, not shut doors on any of them....

Anyways, glad you're here.

Thanks everyone Looking forward to being a part of this support forum. Even just getting these gentle welcome messages and reading through what others have shared makes me feel loads better  Pleased to meet all of you!

Hi there everyone. I joined this board a few weeks ago and have posted a little bit on other threads, but figured it was time I officially say hi. 

I was diagnosed with C-PTSD last winter - to much relief finally at 31 years old, and too many years sensing something not quite right with my mental health; but as I'm sure many of you know all too well, it's been a rollercoaster and extremely painful even though it's brought amazing perspective into my life and helped me face the truth and find healing...

I'm coming to terms with family emotional abuse, negligence, and some recovered memories of physical/sexual abuse. I'm in the process of both opening up about all of it with family and painfully re-negotiating boundaries with them after I've been met with an overwhelming wave response of apathy, minimization, and denial... And even losing close relationships with some of them that I thought truly deeply cared about me.

I'm learning to realize better that I experience flashbacks almost all the time when I only ever thought I was just emotionally sensitive and flawed (and shamed/punished for it as a child, shame continues today...)

Anyways, it's been extremely lonely. Few to no friends to talk about it with, loss of closeness with family (or maybe the illusion of closeness has finally been shattered) and a partner who is wonderful but not perfect at understanding and does the best he can...

My hope is to connect and not feel so alone.... And maybe I can do the same in return for at least some of you  Looking forward to participating and sharing and being in the presence of people who will better understand all this, and meeting all of you. Thank you in advance... 

Thank you so much for the welcomes and validation. I sense that I am surrounded by some very wise and caring individuals. Using your own pain as a means of supporting others is heroic.

In a world that is feeling extremely unsafe right now, its nice to know that this place exists.

Im a bit worried about myself right now. Im vacillating between numb and dissociated, and internally jittery and anxious.  I sense a crisis moment coming on and its scary. I met with my psychiatrist yesterday and she insists that I add to my medication. Problem is that its one thats very addictive, and makes me even more drowsy and foggy brained. I have to work and function in the real world though, so Im not taking it.

I feel like there are two 'me'; the efficient, functioning and successful person that the world sees, and the scared, lonely and drowning my inside.
Does anyone else here ever feel like stress is literally killing them?

Thanks soalone... I came to this board so I wouldn't feel... well, so alone! One of the things that brings me comfort is seeing how similar everyone's experiences are. I'm not the only one going through this (phew!)

Yes, sometimes the stress has felt like I am going to die, but it gets better the more and more awareness you develop about what's actually going on with you when it happens. Your emotions are not you!

My "breakdown" over a year ago that got me into therapy and diagnosed was caused by stress. Not only did I think I was going to die, but I thought everyone around me was dangerous and that I needed to move away and hide completely, start anew. It almost destroyed my life and my marriage, and really hurt my partner.

Now I feel like I'm so, so far away from that. Meds really helped. I do use meds to help me when I can't seem to get a handle on what I'm feeling, or if I sense I'm losing control... but i have needed them less and less with help from cognitive behavioral therapy.

I was afraid of addiction and had groggy side effects too. Have you asked your therapist about a non-addictive alternative? I use buspirone just to take the edge off, Xanax only for extreme situations (thankfully less common).

When it comes to the side effects, they do get better and you get used to them. But, I tend to think "I'm going to only take the med if there are net positive gains." I don't just pop one if I feel something bad, and if the grog might interfere with what I'm doing, it's not worth it (the meds were absolutely instrumental for stopping the horrible, horrible insomnia tho)

However, the death feelings are pretty intense! And they're very worth treating. If you're not feeling relief from meds yet, you might feel better at a higher dose of you try it? If it just makes you feel worse you can always go back. (or switch to something different)

I just remember the first time my medication finally helped me "cut" through all the stress and adrenaline to sweet, sweet relief.... Finally. I really needed that and it was a huge help, and I'm not addicted or at the mercy of side effects. 

Bump!

Intrigued as to why no one has replied to this? Would love to hear more about others people's experience.

Oh man.

This is how I would describe it (at least for me): the emotions creep up, and almost every time, they feel like something totally new and that I'm equally totally unprepared for, even if I've experienced them many, many times before (whether it's anger, panic, loneliness, hating myself, anxiety, nervousness for an interview or phone conversation).

They can come quickly, or they can seep in slowly, until suddenly, they're there (cue frog in boiling pot of water analogy - by the time you realize the water is hot you're already dead and it's too late, that's how sneaky they are). 

The emotions definitely feel like something I experienced a long time ago/before, but I guess they trigger a whole new round of scenarios, fears, and paranoias with each adrenaline surge that I have to deconstruct and master them anew every time (it feels that way...no matter how "prepared" I feel I might be for the next flashback, I'm....just not. I have to grope my way out of the dark.)

I mean, it's like going to the gym every so often for an intense workout, but instead of any "gains" you're magically "zapped" to the point where you're just barely learning how to walk....every time you exercise and it's even moderately challenging, you also first have to completely learn how to walk again real quick (it gets easier every time, sort of, but it's still painful, vulnerable, and makes you feel like a dumb little kid, and that never changes).

After the emotions subside I feel great about everything again and tell myself that I'll be better prepared the next time this happens. But they'll always find a way to catch me off guard; they sneak back in from a different angle every time and assail me, sparking a new set of scenarios that freak me out (jumping between "I'll always be alone" to "My partner is secretly an abuser and I should have always known" to "my friends all hate me" to yadayadayada you get the picture). I have to learn ways to question my actual emotions sometimes and, no matter how real they feel, remind myself that they're not real even if it's not something I believe.

I was about to start a post about this and then saw this thread.

From the article I can't find much insight on how to help manage this on my own?

This is really tricky to understand in the moment, and I'm trying to work on it myself when the abandonment depression comes up.

Like Walker says, working through "grief/mourning" is "nebulous." I can definitely say it's nebulous when the emotions first hit me (or "creep up" on me, like SharpAndBlunt said, which is more often than not). It's hard to put your finger on it all....when the emotions strike me is when I'm caught most off-guard, and then when I move deeper into them, I realize more and more what they might mean but only after they take hold and are overwhelming at first (which suuuuuucks)

One thing I'm trying to do is "grieve" the "death" of my childhood as if it were a child outside of myself that I once knew. I think that helps me rationalize/objectify/understand what's happening better when I'm in the "pit," as long as I can learn/get better to rediscovering that perspective. Grieving someone who is dead is not a straightforward process, it never heals you completely and permanently (just like CPTSD). But Walker describing it as "grief" helped me put it more in perspective, that I will have to reframe my emotions over, and over, and over and work through them....there will always be a deep, dark pit you fall into, but you can learn how to shorten the rope or climb up it faster. That's how I look at it...

I read what others have written on this forum, and Ive read a number of books plus speak to a therapist. I come away feeling like Im exaggerating everything. Compared to real issues, mine are very minor, and "mountains out of molehills".
Yet I relate to almost all of the symptoms that are used to described CPTSD.

Has anyone else gone through this?

Hi everyone I'm new here, haven't "introductory" posted yet (or might not ever? Dunno - bad at introductions IRL, bad at them everywhere) but couldn't help posting/responding to this because this is one of the reasons I found this board and joined.

It's not that I just feel extremely isolated with CPTSD. (I was diagnosed last winter and the events around that have completely broken my universe...in the process of rebuilding and it's incredibly lonesome, but thank goodness it's finally happening). But the constant "loop" of denial I go through every so often is just so bewildering, too, and reopens lonely wounds.

I think the tendency to play down your experiences in your own mind is the survival mechanism of it all. So you can carry on living a life you can interpret as normal, because if your brain was so sharply aware of how "abnormal"/maladjusted/non-nurturing your upbringing was all.the.time., I think it would just shut down....right? (See, I still have doubts myself, I had them for 30 years and still struggle with them).

Most days I think of my childhood and think "NBD." Then, I flashback, and have to remember and re-process the reality of everything I've learned through therapy. I had to learn to connect flashbacks (which I thought were just me being *emotional* for all my life) to the fact that what happened WAS a very "BD." Flashbacks *alert* your inner child that, yes, what you went through was major and it still lives inside you. You're not just exaggerating. And it's definitely a mountain, not a molehill; otherwise you wouldn't be here.